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Am very much enjoying the Prime Minister's new hobby of shambling around the country to be screamed at by proles. You do, in fact, love to see it.Junior G-man posted:LMAO BoJo is definitely throwing Northern Ireland overboard: From where I'm sitting in North Belfast it seems like everything might be coming up Milhouse for us, for once. Stay in the UK and, functionally to an extent, the EU. Works for me. WhatEvil posted:Oh and of course, I brought back some Monster Munch (Pickled Onion, sadly - would rather have had Flamin' Hot but Pickled Onion was what I saw in the shop) Out. Get the gently caress out of the thread, pervert.
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Sep 18, 2019 16:43
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Hentai Jihadist posted:Everyone in the comments either way is now arguing about whethet Labour activists are allowed to yell rather than on bojos reflexive lie so mission accomplished for the BBC lol you're right. Boris Johnson got caught on Camera claiming there were no press present and the BBC threw the parent of a sick child to the dogs and the poor man will probably be doxxed and become a target for vehement racist abuse (Which of course doesn't reflect on the conservative party and the people they appeal to at all) Good to see that "Whatever you think of the man and his politics, you cannot question the love he had for his child" lasted less than a week as a press belief.
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Sep 18, 2019 16:43
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Got my first ever twitter suspension for replying to Kuennsburg saying "he's a Labour activist!!" by saying "Better hope the kid dies then I guess?"
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Sep 18, 2019 16:43
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Saros posted:We're going to be rid of the DUP once and for all as they all collectively stroke out at realising they directly resulted in a reunited Ireland. What the Dáil would do with them is an entirely different matter. Hopefully they'd do an SF and refuse to take their seats.
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Sep 18, 2019 16:50
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https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/1174331011724976128 That thing he did on camera? He'd never do it, because it would be stupid to do it. Even though he did do it and did it on camera. Awards and massive paydays please.
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Sep 18, 2019 16:53
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Gonzo McFee posted:https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/1174331011724976128 man those boots must be DELICIOUS
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Sep 18, 2019 16:57
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joedevola posted:Am very much enjoying the Prime Minister's new hobby of shambling around the country to be screamed at by proles. You do, in fact, love to see it. Yeah me too. Was thinking of getting some "Boris Johnson 'gently caress Off Out Of My Town' Tour 2019" T-shirts printed up. quote:Out. Get the gently caress out of the thread, pervert. I'm unsure if I'm being called a pervert for saying that I'd prefer Flamin' Hot or for having bought Pickled Onion. I actually like all 3 flavours of Monster Munch, and even liked the Vanilla Ice Cream and Spaghetti Bolognaise flavours when they were around.
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Sep 18, 2019 17:00
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i genuinely don't understand the significance of the 'labour activist' thing, is the suggestion that he probably doesn't even have a child as patient or something? if he believes his child receives worse care because of government policy, how could that not influence his politics? calling him an 'activist' in that context is extremely creepy really, it's obviously not why he's there
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Sep 18, 2019 17:03
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Tijuana Bibliophile posted:i genuinely don't understand the significance of the 'labour activist' thing, is the suggestion that he probably doesn't even have a child as patient or something? if he believes his child receives worse care because of government policy, how could that not influence his politics? calling him an 'activist' in that context is extremely creepy really, it's obviously not why he's there I think it's a "of course he would accuse the Tories of these things, true or not, he's a labour activist." I think.
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Sep 18, 2019 17:04
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ThomasPaine posted:Fascism and socialism are united by the fact that both understand neoliberalism to be A Bad Thing that leads to the marginalisation of the poor. While socialism then makes the (correct) argument that the issue here is class-based and the enemies are the bourgeoisie and capitalism itself, fascism goes off on one about race and the corrupting influence of outsiders and conspiratorial Jewish puppetmasters. The fascist analysis is dangerous because it almost gets it, then spins off into racist nonsense. Unlike centrist liberalism it acknowledges that there is a problem, even while the proposed solution is way off the mark. As a result, it can have appeal to those who are suffering but who aren't really true believers. These people, if presented with an actually socialist - as opposed to progressive liberal - argument, can be won over. I don't think Dempsey holds "genuinely accept that they got it wrong" as a precondition. If they are working class, they are working class, who must by definition form the integral basis of a left-wing politics. The mountain must go to Mohd on that one. The bone of contention is the reading of the landscape - neither Dempsey nor Jones are claiming to change the political outlook of the swathe of the alleged-Labour-working-class-core-vote. Instead Jones is, fundamentally, arguing that it is too diverse for Tommy Robinson kulturkampf to have traction and Dempsey is arguing that it is not. The ships passing in the night are Jones remarking quote:But even using this profoundly flawed system, most working-class people under 35 and working class BME people voted for Remain. We are told that “the Labour heartlands voted Leave”: why Liverpool, Manchester or indeed London are excluded from “Labour heartlands” is not explained. Where does the Scottish working class fit in all of this? and Dempsey replying quote:The far-right have sought to take advantage of this — sometimes successfully — by offering horrific alternatives. Most working class people can offer stories or anecdotes of people turning to the far-right for answers. In deindustrialised parts of the country, many people of my generation never experienced the secure employment, meaningful political representation, or the real union power their parents experienced. Without the institutions of the Labour and trades union movement to engage with, and without the stability provided by decent jobs, far too many express their discontent with society at large. Now personally I think they are both talking past each other - the UK is no longer a place where whole swathes of the country have places where 90%+ of the labour force are in a few trade unions because their grandparents were in the same town, industry, and trade union, and then that trade union has a bloc vote in a major political party whose open aspiration for decades is worker council democracy. They voted Labour because their fathers did; it was a way of life, not a three quid opt-in (hence why the old Labour right could, likewise, never be easily driven out, no matter how odious its opinions on unilateral disarmament or NI withdrawal). Now the actually-existing left in the UK instead is an amorphous free association of votes in an party organization where memberships is easily obtained and even more easily given up, and seeks to establish its strength by further entrenching OMOV in all arms of the party. The liberalism of the liberal society is calling from inside the house.
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Sep 18, 2019 17:05
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The significance is that it is words you can say in response to criticism and words you say in response to criticism must be an answer because they're where the answer should go in the sentence.
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Sep 18, 2019 17:05
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Tijuana Bibliophile posted:i genuinely don't understand the significance of the 'labour activist' thing, is the suggestion that he probably doesn't even have a child as patient or something? if he believes his child receives worse care because of government policy, how could that not influence his politics? calling him an 'activist' in that context is extremely creepy really, it's obviously not why he's there The idea that a good normal parent would be respectful. He’s only complaining because he’s involved in politics. Thus you can safely forget about his concerns because they’re clearly politically motivated and not born of legitimate complaint. It’s about de-legitimizing the opposition.
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Sep 18, 2019 17:06
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Tijuana Bibliophile posted:i genuinely don't understand the significance of the 'labour activist' thing, is the suggestion that he probably doesn't even have a child as patient or something? if he believes his child receives worse care because of government policy, how could that not influence his politics? calling him an 'activist' in that context is extremely creepy really, it's obviously not why he's there https://twitter.com/trevorbastard/status/1174327338798145536
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Sep 18, 2019 17:07
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Also, the 'Labour activist' thing is complete bullshittery given how many members of the BBC Politics unit used to be 'Tory activists'
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Sep 18, 2019 17:14
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Tijuana Bibliophile posted:i genuinely don't understand the significance of the 'labour activist' thing, is the suggestion that he probably doesn't even have a child as patient or something? if he believes his child receives worse care because of government policy, how could that not influence his politics? calling him an 'activist' in that context is extremely creepy really, it's obviously not why he's there Trying to discredit the man's pain and believe it or not this will be enough to convince a lot of people who don't want to be confronted with the reality of what he said. Now that the story is about how this man, with a MUSLIM NAME, is a LABOUR ACTIVIST it's no longer about how Boris Johnson claimed on a BBC camera that there were no press. Now the fact he has a sick week old daughter is gone. Don't have to look further into it or deal with how Boris got completely humiliated in public again. And of course it's the BBC who claimed that clarifying the political affiliations of conservative councillors who try to ambush Labour MP's on Question Time under false names wasn't something they'd do as it wasn't relevant information.
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Sep 18, 2019 17:14
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+1 for Mark Blythe, his videos are great.
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Sep 18, 2019 17:14
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Diet Crack posted:+1 for Mark Blythe, his videos are great. Isn't he that Scottish Centrist who said Corbyn doesn't care about the UK and just wants to destroy the Tory party with no other plans or aspirations? Eschenique fucked around with this message at 17:21 on Sep 18, 2019 |
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Sep 18, 2019 17:16
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mediaphage posted:The idea that a good normal parent would be respectful. He’s only complaining because he’s involved in politics. Thus you can safely forget about his concerns because they’re clearly politically motivated and not born of legitimate complaint. It’s about de-legitimizing the opposition. Genuine source of rage for me, this bizarre thing we have in Britain that 'politics' is totally divorced from 'real life', as if people's politics exist as some sort of freestanding independent quality. As if 'Labour' is just a football team we've chosen to support, and the important thing is them winning by any means necessary, so anything evidence that supports them becomes - paradoxically - 'political' and therefore not real but part of a strategy to 'win'. Actually drives me up the wall. Eschenique posted:Isn't he that Scottish Centrist who said Corbyn doesn't care about the UK and just wants to destroy the Tory party with no other plans or aspirations? As if wanting to destroy the tory party and wanting the best for the UK aren't literally different ways of saying the same thing lol
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Sep 18, 2019 17:18
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Eschenique posted:Isn't he that Scottish Centrist who said Corbyn doesn't care about the UK and just wants to destroy the Tory party with no other plans or aspirations? I harbor the same burning impulse so I can't say it's a negative. But yeah Blythe did say something along those lines and it was weird, but as someone ITT said at the time (Guava maybe?) when you get too into macroeconomics your perspective gets deeply weird. He's still very interesting and on the whole very insightful.
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Sep 18, 2019 17:20
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Welp https://twitter.com/THR/status/1174341459308437504
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Sep 18, 2019 17:21
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In the same speech Blythe also said that capitalism will fix global warming on it's own once it gets serious enough. Implying that we shouldn't worry about it now.
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Sep 18, 2019 17:22
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after his mug based threat the queen got 007 on the case
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Sep 18, 2019 17:22
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ThomasPaine posted:Genuine source of rage for me, this bizarre thing we have in Britain that 'politics' is totally divorced from 'real life', as if people's politics exist as some sort of freestanding independent quality. As if 'Labour' is just a football team we've chosen to support, and the important thing is them winning by any means necessary, so anything evidence that supports them becomes - paradoxically - 'political' and therefore not real but part of a strategy to 'win'. Actually drives me up the wall. but that rude old man is shouting! why is he so angry!!!
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Sep 18, 2019 17:23
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I'm the legions of comments saying Hilary Clinton did this
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Sep 18, 2019 17:23
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Eschenique posted:In the same speech Blythe also said that capitalism will fix global warming on it's own once it gets serious enough. Implying that we shouldn't worry about it now. Technically killing enough people that the population stabilizes is a solution.
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Sep 18, 2019 17:23
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ThomasPaine posted:Fascism and socialism are united by the fact that both understand neoliberalism to be A Bad Thing that leads to the marginalisation of the poor. While socialism then makes the (correct) argument that the issue here is class-based and the enemies are the bourgeoisie and capitalism itself, fascism goes off on one about race and the corrupting influence of outsiders and conspiratorial Jewish puppetmasters. The fascist analysis is dangerous because it almost gets it, then spins off into racist nonsense. Unlike centrist liberalism it acknowledges that there is a problem, even while the proposed solution is way off the mark. As a result, it can have appeal to those who are suffering but who aren't really true believers. These people, if presented with an actually socialist - as opposed to progressive liberal - argument, can be won over. Please keep in mind that fascists don't "almost get it". They have always been pro capitalism and they're also liars. When they use anti-capitalist rhetoric it's part of their method of recruiting and indoctrinating people, with a conveyor belt process that looks like this: capitalism is the problem > jewish capitalism is the problem > jews are the problem Anyone who gets stuck at the first or the or the second stage of this process is always seen as an internal threat by the leaders, and are rejected and murdered at the very first opportunity. The ideal fascist recruit "comes around" to big business and corporatism, and comes to believe that the three step ideological conveyor belt is proof of the wisdom of the fuhrer, who has saved them from a false idea using reason. And so anyone who's made it to step three can go out and attempt the same recruiting method on others. Also "lived experience" is liberal poo poo designed to obscure class, you'd be better off talking about material conditions of a given class rather than adopting rainbow capitalist radlib terminology and concepts HorseLord fucked around with this message at 17:30 on Sep 18, 2019 |
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Sep 18, 2019 17:28
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Bobstar posted:Anyone got any recommendations for books about how austerity has ruined things, by people who live/work in those things? The violence of Austerity was very academic but quite good.
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Sep 18, 2019 17:31
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Ms Adequate posted:I'm the legions of comments saying Hilary Clinton did this Clinton must have better hitmen than Putin at this point. I'm surprised she isn't a 5 term President already
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Sep 18, 2019 17:31
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OwlFancier posted:Technically killing enough people that the population stabilizes is a solution. Capitalism's is to keep 0.01% of the population alive in automated luxury with a small number of guards while everyone else eats poo poo until the poo poo runs out. Fascism's is to secure the borders and hope that the worst hits the Global South then start finding internal enemies when it keeps going. Socialism's is to make the best possible conditions for the masses while coordinating change. (Liberals: and all these ideas must be considered with equal merit except socialism.)
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Sep 18, 2019 17:35
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HorseLord posted:Please keep in mind that fascists don't "almost get it". They have always been pro capitalism and they're also liars. When they use anti-capitalist rhetoric it's part of their method of recruiting and indoctrinating people, with a conveyor belt process that looks like this: I concede that actual ideological fascists are pro-capitalism, but their rhetoric is what's important here. I'm not talking about winning around the true believers, who are generally beyond redemption, but about the ordinary people who get indoctrinated via the exact process you describe (before they internalise it to the point that they too become true believers). I don't really buy that the term 'lived experience' is particularly radlib tbh but I accept it's a little woolly.
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Sep 18, 2019 17:36
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Are the fascists actually saying "capitalism bad" though because these days it seems more like "capitalism would work just fine if it weren't for all these immigrants".
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Sep 18, 2019 17:42
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Capitalism is only for those with capital. Aka the 1% The rest of us are just sucking from the teet until it’s taken away when we get too big.
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Sep 18, 2019 17:45
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WhatEvil posted:Are the fascists actually saying "capitalism bad" though because these days it seems more like "capitalism would work just fine if it weren't for all these immigrants". That's the route they end up going down, but superficially they also say 'yes we understand that you have no money and are angry and suffering', which draws people in where the mainstream 'left' (by which I mean liberals) is stuck on 'lol what problem? There's no problem. Everything's fine!'
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Sep 18, 2019 17:45
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Ms Adequate posted:I'm the legions of comments saying Hilary Clinton did this https://twitter.com/kevinspacey/status/259057022501261312?s=21
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Sep 18, 2019 17:46
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WhatEvil posted:Are the fascists actually saying "capitalism bad" though because these days it seems more like "capitalism would work just fine if it weren't for all these immigrants". There's variance, some say "capitalism bad" some say "capitalism okay but ruined by immigrants" and some say "capitalism amazing but kidnapped by jews; are you a bad enough aryan to rescue capitalism?" And lol at discounting lived experience as important like where do you think people develop and entrench into their beliefs and ideas if not the things they experience?
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Sep 18, 2019 17:46
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Ms Adequate posted:And lol at discounting lived experience as important like where do you think people develop and entrench into their beliefs and ideas if not the things they experience? I get the impression that HorseLord was criticising the terminology rather than the actual premise.
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Sep 18, 2019 17:47
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bump_fn posted:i mean i assume the only reason that the tories didnt explicitly come otu and say "our solution to the backstop is to give the six counties back to ireland" is because they had to coalition with DUP right? there isnt enough money in NI for them to actually give a poo poo i assume Is -39 more deadly than -29 majority? Becsuse dup lost their 'supply' when the tories lost their supply.
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Sep 18, 2019 17:48
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Ms Adequate posted:
I believe the term of art is "false consciousness"
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Sep 18, 2019 17:48
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ThomasPaine posted:I get the impression that HorseLord was criticising the terminology rather than the actual premise. Even then i'd argue that "lived experience" is a far more useful way to look at it because it is the basis of the formation of ideas.
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Sep 18, 2019 17:51
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Ms Adequate posted:There's variance, some say "capitalism bad" some say "capitalism okay but ruined by immigrants" and some say "capitalism amazing but kidnapped by jews; are you a bad enough aryan to rescue capitalism?" ThomasPaine posted:I get the impression that HorseLord was criticising the terminology rather than the actual premise. ronya posted:I believe the term of art is "false consciousness"
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Sep 18, 2019 17:54
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