Guavanaut posted:

Like, too many times people will think "what if I'd done this or that or the other" and blame themselves, it's understandable, but it is a departure from how we used to think about it.

Obviously it's not a reasonable ask for an individual in that situation to somehow rationally decide to think about it in the manner of a different decade, but it's never someone's 'fault', and I think the driving forces behind that view of pregnancy are the same as the driving forces behind "you have to do pregnancy perfectly (and what does that say about you if you can't)" and in turn behind regressive bills to allow investigations into whether miscarriages are 'legitimate' and stuff which legitimately boils my piss. (I'm also not saying you personally did or did not look at it in that way, that's not my business, but I'm saying some people definitely do, and it's a bit messed up that the old fashioned view of "sometimes it's just not meant" is closer to medical reality and seems mentally healthier than some of the pressures we put on now.)

Sorry if I was unclear there, it's specifically the fault bit that I pin on that kind of poo poo.

Guavanaut posted:

Like, too many times people will think "what if I'd done this or that or the other" and blame themselves, it's understandable, but it is a departure from how we used to think about it.

Obviously it's not a reasonable ask for an individual in that situation to somehow rationally decide to think about it in the manner of a different decade, but it's never someone's 'fault', and I think the driving forces behind that view of pregnancy are the same as the driving forces behind "you have to do pregnancy perfectly (and what does that say about you if you can't)" and in turn behind regressive bills to allow investigations into whether miscarriages are 'legitimate' and stuff which legitimately boils my piss. (I'm also not saying you personally did or did not look at it in that way, that's not my business, but I'm saying some people definitely do, and it's a bit messed up that the old fashioned view of "sometimes it's just not meant" is closer to medical reality and seems mentally healthier than some of the pressures we put on now.)

Sorry if I was unclear there, it's specifically the fault bit that I pin on that kind of poo poo.

Continuity RCP posted:

come to yorkshire, it's loving bleak and we're all miserable

Bobby Deluxe posted:

Good news everyone!

https://twitter.com/ChrisDaviesLD/status/1174264651368083456?s=19

Now it just remains for Boris to break the law by not sending the letter!

blunt posted:

marktheando posted:

Well that's nice but it's not up to the european parliament to grant us an extension, it's the european council that decides.

Marmaduke! posted:

I love that in the last few days we've had journalists calling up people's parents to tell them their son is HIV positive, dredging up stories about murders from years ago for shock-factor headlines, and now trying to cast a guy with a sick baby as the bad guy for standing up to Boris (bonus points cos he has a foreign name). Just wondering what they'll follow it up with, they'll probably start calling people monkeys again.

Catboy Autonomist posted:

https://twitter.com/mccaulnews/status/1174438309596160000

Ms Adequate posted:

Funny as this idiot is I'm not sure how valid it is to post some rando's hot takes when they have fewer followers than I do

Catboy Autonomist posted:

He is an actual reporter from BBC Scotland it seems, albeit not a very well-known one

Gatts posted:

Do yourselves a favor and if you wanna visit North America, consider Alaska or the Canadian Rockies and Banff National Park. They're fantastic and in my opinion the most beautiful place on Earth and I've been to the Fiji Islands too.

Continuity RCP posted:

come to Bristol, it's loving wet and we're all on drugs

ROFLBOT posted:

as beautiful as that area is, the problem with Banff is that its overrun with tourists, Banff the town itself is in near gridlock when its busy and there’s almost no off-peak season any more


(also Monster Munch pickled onion > *)

Sanitary Naptime posted:

That’s a shame. I only spent one day in Banff itself, the rest of it was around the much wider area, kayaking down the Kananaskis, climbing the glacier above Bow Lake, hiking what I think was titled the northwest passage (just on the border between Alberta and BC) and some amazing rock climbing. I’ll need to dig out the pictures for the thread next time it comes up because I can’t stress just how beautiful the place really is. Ruined Scotland for me

forkboy84 posted:

Just come to the original Banff in Aberdeenshire, it's not overloaded with tourists (because it's poo poo but never mind that)

ZoninSilver posted:

Just had a thought about the Laura Kuenssberg I can't shake.

Remember that incident a way back on a TV debate of sorts where it turned out that one audience member asking questions in particular was a Tory activist? I don't remember the specifics, something about him posing as something else?

I think Laura believes this is the exact same thing and either just as bad, or an excuse to say "See, Labour does it too".

njsykora posted:

Thats every episode of Question Time where the audience questions are almost always from Tory activists or councillers.

Continuity RCP posted:

come to yorkshire, it's loving bleak and we're all miserable

Jaeluni Asjil posted:

Apropos yesterday's discussion on twitter algorithms, am signed in on a different gadget with a different Twitter name and can't believe the comments on this tweet! (On this gadget I normally use Twitter to ask HMRC questions. Does that mean it has assumed I'm a Tory?)

https://twitter.com/JonAshworth/status/1174430786738675712

Rarity posted:

marktheando posted:

Well that's nice but it's not up to the european parliament to grant us an extension, it's the european council that decides.

The Question IRL posted:

I'm sorry to dig back into this, but the problem as I see it, having read books on grief like the Baby Loss guide, is historically miscarriages weren't viewed as anything at all. They were this silent traumatic event that happened to people that nobody talked about. (Likely because it was a "woman's problem" and our male society doesn't want to dwell on this. Also it's something that makes us sad, so let's not think about anything that causes emotions unless they are an approved emotion like happiness or anger.)

Not talking about it, or not thinking about it doesn't seem helpful, because it is a traumatic event that happens to the parents (sadly, sometimes it's the mother alone who goes through this. Often it will be both parents.) They do learn that they are pregnant, and begin making plans and bonding over the idea of a child when the tragedy can strike. And it hurts.
It hurts a lot. And the best way to understand that pain is to think about it.
It also allows them to mourn the loss of the child that they thought they would have, but don't get to experience at all.


And yes, from a medical point of view what happens is very often outside the control of the parents. It is very often just a cruel twist of fate, or mother nature being capricious.
But our human brains, when we try and think and unpack tragedies. And in so doing we think of all the things that we could have done differently, as a coping mechanism.

When my wife and I lost our baby, I had a Dad Joke a day calendar in my bedroom. It was one of the ones where you tear off a page everyday.
I was always slow to update that thing and I had left it on the Tuesday before we lost our baby. For months after the fact I kept it on the Tuesday at the start of June because in my head if I kept it at that date I thought that if I could somehow travel through time, I could go back to that date and I might be able to fix things.

This was clearly crazy. But I couldn't bring myself to update the calendar. (When my eldest daughter asked me if she could change it, I got very upset and had to explain to her no as I wasn't ready.)
Last month after we got the results of the post mortem, we learnt that what probably killed our baby happened sometime between week 28 and week 35. It was painful, but I got a tiny measure in comfort in knowing that even if I went back in time to June, I wouldn't have been able to save her. Since the damage was done at a different point to the one I was obsessing over.

And again, as mad as that sounds. It really helped me to move past that fact. Mourning is weird.

Saying "sometimes it's not meant to be" might be true from a rational point of view. But from an emotional point of view it is very close to "it didn't really happen" or "it's not a real lose." It diminishes the pain a parent feels by making it seem that they didn't lose a real child.
It's best to let parents grieve and come to terms with what happened to them and not minimize the loss.

Jaeluni Asjil posted:

Apropos yesterday's discussion on twitter algorithms, am signed in on a different gadget with a different Twitter name and can't believe the comments on this tweet! (On this gadget I normally use Twitter to ask HMRC questions. Does that mean it has assumed I'm a Tory?)

Ms Adequate posted:

tbf I don't think Blyth sets out to make any statements about "ought", he's entirely concerned with explaining what he sees as "is" and "will be". And in that lens his analysis is coherent; the global north won't give two shits if half of Bangladesh sinks into the Bay of Bengal and Africa undergoes massive desertification, but when the flood waters start doing real and lasting damage in London and New York gets flattened by a hurricane then we'll start seeing real changes even within the capitalist system.

I mean I don't think that's entirely plausible on its own merits because Katrina and Michael and Florence sure don't seem to have done that and major American cities have been practically wiped out, and it certainly doesn't mean capitalism would succeed in its attempts.

Guavanaut posted:

That's why I think standpoint often works better than lived experience, as in "no trans research or legislation without starting from a trans standpoint" and so on, within a proletarian society.