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I always found it odd how flimsy the flats were when I lived in the UK. Creaky hardwood floors and stairs where you need to do the dance step thing from Monkey Island to avoid alerting the entire house. Or a carpet so thick it holds on to liters of water from the damp damp air because the front door doesn't quite close all the way. And then the letting agencies... I'm currently back in Iceland, in a house built in the last 30 years, with thick concrete walls and floors. There's a pub right below me, there's a troubadour playing right now and if I listen very carefully I can just barely hear the lovely version of Karma Police. I love many things about the UK, but the housing situation is just the worst.
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Sep 20, 2019 21:50
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Watson is most likely gone in the morning lmao.
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Sep 20, 2019 21:53
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OwlFancier posted:Well you see ideology = old, bad. values = new, good It really sums up New Labour, their whole thing was about number going up, even the non capitalist parts. It was all about numerical targets for arson reports, for birds per suburban area, for teenage pregnancies, for ASBOs, for weddings and divorces. Obviously some numbers are important, like your environmental scientists ought to know PM2.5 levels as part of a wider ideology for healthier cities, but they were basically Numbers Fuckstein, the party. Zedlic posted:I'm currently back in Iceland, in a house built in the last 30 years, with thick concrete walls and floors. There's a pub right below me, there's a troubadour playing right now and if I listen very carefully I can just barely hear the lovely version of Karma Police. I love many things about the UK, but the housing situation is just the worst.
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Sep 20, 2019 21:55
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Wonder how long it'll take for the Lib Dems to announce that Watson is joining them.
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Sep 20, 2019 22:01
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The original context for those interested: https://catholicherald.co.uk/news/2014/08/28/tom-watson-theres-not-enough-love-in-our-politics/ quote:“Why? He doesn’t believe in anything” asked one Labour member when they heard I was about to interview Tom Watson. The West Bromwich MP has resigned from Tony Blair’s Government, waged war on illegality in the Murdoch empire, won a Government inquiry into historic sex abuse and left Ed Miliband’s top team. Yet plenty of politicos, particularly Labour ones, whisper that he has no principles.
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Sep 20, 2019 22:02
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watson being such a monumental prick as deputy leader that it makes everyone else vote to abolish the position is incredibly funny
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Sep 20, 2019 22:06
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Hope they then vote to reinstate the deputy leader 5 minutes later but obviously requiring a new ballot since it’s a new position.
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Sep 20, 2019 22:09
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I dunno, as evidenced by watson not doing it it seems like a fairly useless position.
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Sep 20, 2019 22:11
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Noxville posted:Hope they then vote to reinstate the deputy leader 5 minutes later but obviously requiring a new ballot since it’s a new position. Remembering how dire the choice was last time round, hopefully they won't. Just reading that New Statesman article. Watson never finished his degree. How come that doesn't get dragged up every 2 minutes like Corbyn not finishing does? Wait... I know why. Jaeluni Asjil fucked around with this message at 22:16 on Sep 20, 2019 |
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Sep 20, 2019 22:12
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Noxville posted:Hope they then vote to reinstate the deputy leader 5 minutes later but obviously requiring a new ballot since it’s a new position. The position only exists to mend rifts in the party, giving it to a loyalist is pointless and at this point, any lib would likely (try to) wreck like Watson. E: its like the cupbearer title in CK2. It's got a bit of a pay raise and provides some prestige, and it'll bump up the opinion of a quarreling vassal sure, but if everyone's looking to stab you in the back, it might be more trouble than its worth Saith fucked around with this message at 22:18 on Sep 20, 2019 |
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Sep 20, 2019 22:13
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Could I have a list of what Watson has done recently. Like in general he seems to be very close to a lot of media folks and that is about it. Is he essentially just doing the whole "I'm really Labour just not Left" dance that folks keep doing? Other than the attempt to go "We should have a referendum THEN an election" as if that would solve anything/ have ANY loving time to get done.
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Sep 20, 2019 22:17
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big scary monsters posted:lol drat Use of Weapons, Zakalwe gets decapitated and his head flung through the air. The Ship is then able to beam his head up an instant before death and regrow his body. The drone, Skaffen-Amitskaw gets him a get-well-soon card and a present. Its a hat I think it's based on a real thing. I have a vague memory of one of the Horrible History books, Awful Aztecs maybe, that talked about bending young saplings under the condemned's ears to fling it through the air. Sort of a final act of compassion, they get to experience fight in their last moments.
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Sep 20, 2019 22:21
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https://twitter.com/siennamarla/status/1175152255768682499 The fact that this has blindsided supposed master tactician Watson is just perfect. gently caress off, and keep loving off all the way to the Lib Dems. Josef bugman posted:Could I have a list of what Watson has done recently. Like in general he seems to be very close to a lot of media folks and that is about it. He's widely suspected to be behind the majority of the malicious leaking/'senior labour source' briefing that happens, at least the stuff from shadow cabinet. Also the leaking of the manifesto at the last election, which luckily backfired. He'd almost certainly try something similar this time. Far better to lose a day of conference news than go into a snap election with him on the team.
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Sep 20, 2019 22:22
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What's the difference supposed to be between "ideology based" and "values based"? Ideology comes from values. (The answer is that the word ideology polls badly)
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Sep 20, 2019 22:23
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Hallucinogenic Toreador posted:What's the difference supposed to be between "ideology based" and "values based"? Ideology comes from values. (The answer is that the word ideology polls badly) The actual answer is that New Labour was about marketing as the Labour Party while fully accepting & working within the boundaries of & in fact establishing a post-post-war consensus. Or I guess a post-Callahan consensus sounds a bit less silly. The key word here being marketing. It was all about focus group testing and slick branding and nice soundbites while continuing to hammer on with the privatisations, the PFI, the attacks on the welfare state. They'd convinced themselves that to win the election Labour needed to not be a party for labour any more. Maybe that was true in 1997 (personally I think I could have headed the Labour Party to victory in May1997 & I was still months away from turning 13) but it's blatantly not now, between Millennials & Zoomers you've got two generations who are entirely rejecting the neoliberal consensus. It should have been rejected after 2008 but lol. But it's that loving moronic disease of liberals where they all too often insist they are above ideology, stanning for the status quo is an ideology you stupid liberal fucks, now hurry up and jump in the guillotine. forkboy84 fucked around with this message at 22:31 on Sep 20, 2019 |
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Sep 20, 2019 22:27
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https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/1175158981939126272 Haha loving try it.
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Sep 20, 2019 22:28
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https://twitter.com/wariotifo/status/1175158092402745345 Don't give a poo poo about the article but lol at the description of it. jabby posted:He's widely suspected to be behind the majority of the malicious leaking/'senior labour source' briefing that happens, at least the stuff from shadow cabinet. Also the leaking of the manifesto at the last election, which luckily backfired. I thought that was generally accepted to have been Leslie, so high on the smell of his own farts that he was convinced it would destroy Labour with all that radical talk of "not killing poors" and "not killing brown people" and "not killing brown, poor people in order to enrich rich white people"?
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Sep 20, 2019 22:29
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jabby posted:He's widely suspected to be behind the majority of the malicious leaking/'senior labour source' briefing that happens, at least the stuff from shadow cabinet. Also the leaking of the manifesto at the last election, which luckily backfired. But these seem to have stopped now right? I'd still prefer us to keep ourselves sharp, though with the big blow up that last week could have been (were it not for the Scottish Courts) I might be in disagreement. I mean why would he? This does seem to be the big thing (that the New Statesman article did not answer) is Why? Why go to all this length?
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Sep 20, 2019 22:30
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forkboy84 posted:Reading this. “The first meaningful interaction I ever had with Tony Blair was back in 1995,” he recalled in a 2014 Catholic Herald interview. “He said to me: ‘You’ve got to understand that what all of this is about is turning us from an ideology-based party into a values-based party.’ And as it happened, I completely believed in it.” An ideology is more structured than a simple set of values. Blair was saying he wanted to think outside the box of traditional Labour dogma in order to deliver the sorts of things it liked. Or, more cynically, removing structure from the party's goals made it more difficult to question whether his actions were furthering them.
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Sep 20, 2019 22:32
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Hallucinogenic Toreador posted:What's the difference supposed to be between "ideology based" and "values based"? Ideology comes from values. (The answer is that the word ideology polls badly) My bank account doesn't have an ideology, but it sure as hell has a value! I think, more seriously, it's part of the "end of history" thing. Ideologies drive you to structurally change society, to envision a rebuild from the ground up. In the mindset of the 90's, there was no more place for this in politics, as Liberal Capitalism had clearly won and was the best, forever. Values, however, are just your priorities. You don't have to completely restructure society to just act with some idea that maybe poor people should get the chance to be rich too. So a Blair government wouldn't change the basic fabric of society after Thatcher and Major but might pursue what was there with some different priorities.
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Sep 20, 2019 22:34
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Josef bugman posted:Could I have a list of what Watson has done recently. Like in general he seems to be very close to a lot of media folks and that is about it. https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2019/09/what-does-tom-watson-want
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Sep 20, 2019 22:35
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goddamnedtwisto posted:I thought that was generally accepted to have been Leslie, so high on the smell of his own farts that he was convinced it would destroy Labour with all that radical talk of "not killing poors" and "not killing brown people" and "not killing brown, poor people in order to enrich rich white people"? I thought at the time of the leak only very few people had access to a copy of the manifesto? Wasn't Leslie just a backbencher then? Josef bugman posted:But these seem to have stopped now right? I'd still prefer us to keep ourselves sharp, though with the big blow up that last week could have been (were it not for the Scottish Courts) I might be in disagreement. It's only stopped because he told MPs to temporarily stop loving things up because they are at risk of being deselected. Before that he was fully into signal-boosting the antisemitism row, calling for Labour to farm out party discipline to an independent body with the power to expel members and just generally wading in to call the entire party antisemitic.
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Sep 20, 2019 22:36
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jabby posted:https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/1175158981939126272 Ahahaha that first tweet. Tell us how you really feel, Laura!
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Sep 20, 2019 22:36
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I skim read it, but it didn't seem to actually say all that much. I dunno. I'd just rather the full democratisation of Labour could be conducted fairly quickly.
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Sep 20, 2019 22:37
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jabby posted:https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/1175158981939126272
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Sep 20, 2019 22:37
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Josef bugman posted:But these seem to have stopped now right? I'd still prefer us to keep ourselves sharp, though with the big blow up that last week could have been (were it not for the Scottish Courts) I might be in disagreement. see jabby's post above. It wouldn't be above Tom to give Kuenssberg a story about himself to make him look good
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Sep 20, 2019 22:38
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Josef bugman posted:But these seem to have stopped now right? I'd still prefer us to keep ourselves sharp, though with the big blow up that last week could have been (were it not for the Scottish Courts) I might be in disagreement. He was positioning himself as the compromise candidate for the Chicken Coup before realising that the membership would obliterate him and it would lose him all power within the party. I assume that he's now just trying to get on the Davos circuit like David Milliband and return in victory once the Labour civil war (which is still very much a possibility) is over and all the nasty lefties have been thrown out. However he had to wind his neck the gently caress in over the Carl Beech situation and is completely hemmed in on the NEC (which is why he stopped turning up, I'll bet), and has realised that even the Graun are holding back on the sloppy centrist blowjobs because he's so identified with press regulation, so now he's probably just taking money from Progress and Mandelson's little boiler room to cause as much damage as he can on the way out.
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Sep 20, 2019 22:38
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Glad Watson is getting the axe, if only metaphorically while we remain a part of the ECJ's jurisdiction.
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Sep 20, 2019 22:39
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hosed up that Jeremy Corbyn threw away his majority by abolishing 21 MPs.
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Sep 20, 2019 22:39
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Josef bugman posted:But these seem to have stopped now right? I'd still prefer us to keep ourselves sharp, though with the big blow up that last week could have been (were it not for the Scottish Courts) I might be in disagreement. Because he's valuelogically opposed to a left labour government, cos he's a knobhead.
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Sep 20, 2019 22:40
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jabby posted:I thought at the time of the leak only very few people had access to a copy of the manifesto? Wasn't Leslie just a backbencher then? You're quite right, and I can't remember the name of the person being bandied around at the time - I never heard Watson being blamed until quite a bit later.
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Sep 20, 2019 22:40
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jabby posted:It's only stopped because he told MPs to temporarily stop loving things up because they are at risk of being deselected. How likely is it do you think that a load of the MP's get deselected anyway/don't go anywhere? Alongside that, I do hope it's not just internal power struggles, we have so much else to be doing. I don't like how he just didn't show up at all to the NEC for like 5 months though, that seems... I dunno it seems galling to me.
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Sep 20, 2019 22:42
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Josef bugman posted:I skim read it, but it didn't seem to actually say all that much. https://twitter.com/AyoCaesar/status/1175160379632246786 No other way to do it if Watson refuses to quit and 20% of MP's wont launch a challenge. Also worth remembering that if Corbyn was ever incapacitated/died/got murdered like the press are all hoping for, Watson would inherit the leadership. Which includes the right to nominate a big chunk of the NEC. He would absolutely try to use the leader's position to rig the next leader election, including changing the rules if necessary and arm-twisting as many MPs as possible to keep a left-wing candidate off the slate. It would be a complete disaster and one of the few ways the right could re-assert control of the party against the membership. It's also totally why he's been squatting in the deputy leader job despite not doing any of the work. Josef bugman posted:How likely is it do you think that a load of the MP's get deselected anyway/don't go anywhere? I don't think we're going to see mass deselections. There may be a couple, and they may not be the ones anybody expects. Local politics can be unpredictable.
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Sep 20, 2019 22:46
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Josef bugman posted:How likely is it do you think that a load of the MP's get deselected anyway/don't go anywhere?
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Sep 20, 2019 22:48
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Been spending Friday night listening to new music. Having a good wee headbang to the new King Gizzard & The Lizard Wizard record which is just straight up thrash metal, fun change from their usual(?) sound.
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Sep 20, 2019 22:49
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jabby posted:https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/1175158981939126272 lol gently caress off laura not only did he not turn up to a recent NEC meeting to give his report he didn't even let them know he wasn't doing so wasting a bunch of time
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Sep 20, 2019 22:49
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Also a lot of the real arseholes either jumped or deselected themselves.
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Sep 20, 2019 22:50
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Well I hope it all gets sorted. I am off to bed as I am in work doing some overtime.
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Sep 20, 2019 22:51
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Nice of them to let you bring your bed with you. Sleep well!
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Sep 20, 2019 22:51
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https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1175164186080550913?s=20 https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1175164189016502274?s=20
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Sep 20, 2019 22:54
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