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Liquid Communism posted:Edit: When I say 'not competent' I mean they failed the basic mathematical underpinnings of their ruleset such that attributes and skills are priced the same for advancement, but differently in character creation, such that you can have as much as a 100 karma swing building the same character sheet depending on your order of operations. Not to mention all the rules copy/pasted from 5e that reference things like Limits which no longer exist in the new mechanics, and leaving out other rules like what a starting Essence rating should be because the editors were making assumptions based on prior knowledge rather than reading the text. Isn't this a basic flaw in all the old Storyteller systems that's been well-known for decades at this point? How do people keep making mistakes like this?
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Sep 20, 2019 00:11
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Calde posted:Isn't this a basic flaw in all the old Storyteller systems that's been well-known for decades at this point? How do people keep making mistakes like this? Perhaps they are not interested in giving you the bad rules you think you want? 
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Sep 20, 2019 00:24
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Calde posted:Isn't this a basic flaw in all the old Storyteller systems that's been well-known for decades at this point? How do people keep making mistakes like this? Because TTRPG designers never bother to have anyone decent with math and -especially- statistics look at their systems.
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Sep 20, 2019 00:24
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Calde posted:Isn't this a basic flaw in all the old Storyteller systems that's been well-known for decades at this point? How do people keep making mistakes like this? In Exalted 3e I swear it seemed like some sort of hard-coded purity test. Like if your players came out of the character creation process as bizarre hyperspecialized savants, you were supposed to be able to know that they abused your generosity and didn't understand the unspoken rules of the game. Character Creation was basically the room full of fizzy lifting drink.
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Sep 20, 2019 01:32
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theironjef posted:In Exalted 3e I swear it seemed like some sort of hard-coded purity test. Like if your players came out of the character creation process as bizarre hyperspecialized savants, you were supposed to be able to know that they abused your generosity and didn't understand the unspoken rules of the game. Character Creation was basically the room full of fizzy lifting drink. In Ex3 is was pretty much entirely because Holden & Mørke liked the feel of easy point-build at character generation and slow progression with XP. They were entirely aware of the flaws and just considered them insignificant.
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Sep 20, 2019 03:04
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The root game feels like a boardgame in a very bland way. There seem to be more rules dedicated to how to replicate the board game at your table, in terms of clearings and paths, then anything else.
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Sep 20, 2019 05:49
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Golden Bee posted:The root game feels like a boardgame in a very bland way. There seem to be more rules dedicated to how to replicate the board game at your table, in terms of clearings and paths, then anything else. Could this be considered genre emulation? Capturing the real feel of the board game is a valid choice, though admittedly not perhaps an ideal one.
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Sep 20, 2019 16:37
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Liquid Communism posted:Because TTRPG designers never bother to have anyone decent with math and -especially- statistics look at their systems. Its the unholy trinity between the fact that designing an RPG is really difficult, there is almost no money in it so you have no cash to get your math checked and “Who really cares about mechanics, this is art man” As a corollary to that, many GMs are lunatics convinced they are expert designers so will attempt to house rule the game immediately so why bother being good the GMs will immediately break it.
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Sep 20, 2019 16:51
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 I didn't see this before when I checked the last 5 pages: Henshin: A Sentai RPG! Originally released in 2017, Henshin is a Super Sentai RPG inspired by Powered By The Apocalpyse. It's not PBTA, it's an original, diceless system, but the inspiration is clear:   You get the picture. It's light, fun, and seems well-designed. The game is currently available as a brief 12 page PWYW game on DTRPG. As a result, it's brief and lacks detailed play advice. The Kickstarter is to make a fully-fledged 120 page book with GM advice, better play-aids, and other goodies to help run the game. It will come with 5 prebuilt scenarios, three were previously available. It has 6 standard Colors (classes, playbooks, etc.), 2 special ones currently available, and 2 more already unlocked as stretch goals. It has a Kamen Rider hack unlocked as well. If you're interested, check the link at the top of this post.
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Sep 20, 2019 17:30
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I've really wanted a Super Sentai system, this looks great. Going to have to give the preview a look--my players might riot at a diceless system, but this seems great.
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Sep 20, 2019 17:40
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Golden Bee posted:The root game feels like a boardgame in a very bland way. There seem to be more rules dedicated to how to replicate the board game at your table, in terms of clearings and paths, then anything else. I did feel it was bland overall, for instance, the basic moves are completely rote. The clearings/war rules absolutely need to exist for campaign play, but why are they in a QuickStart, just write “also there will be rules for the following things later”. I did really like the playbooks and drives. Everything about the vagabonds seems interesting.
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Sep 20, 2019 17:54
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drat. Hate that I missed the Kamigakari discourse. I think it’s time I took a break from Kickstarter, what with a) this insane embezzlement debacle and b) canning union organizers. I just want my fifty bucks back from the person that stole it.
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Sep 20, 2019 18:33
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Good looking out Covok. Always up for another try at a Sentai system.
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Sep 20, 2019 18:41
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Vincent Baker just launched a KS for Under Hollow Hills, which is about a circus that travels through both the human and fae realms. He's been previewing stuff for this through his patreon for a while now and it all looks really good.
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Sep 20, 2019 18:49
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NickRoweFillea posted:drat. Hate that I missed the Kamigakari discourse. I think it’s time I took a break from Kickstarter, what with a) this insane embezzlement debacle and b) canning union organizers. I just want my fifty bucks back from the person that stole it. Wait, what? Holy poo poo, I got robbed. I didn't even realize. gently caress.
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Sep 20, 2019 18:53
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They provided an email address for requesting refunds, but I, at least, haven't heard anything back from them about my request and I'm not holding my breath.
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Sep 20, 2019 19:06
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Covok posted:Wait, what? Sorry to break it to you this way
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Sep 20, 2019 19:08
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Covok posted:
New thread title?
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Sep 20, 2019 19:10
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NickRoweFillea posted:drat. Hate that I missed the Kamigakari discourse. I think it’s time I took a break from Kickstarter, what with a) this insane embezzlement debacle and b) canning union organizers. I just want my fifty bucks back from the person that stole it. I was debating bringing it back up but yeah while the thread was on lockdown there was a final update post about the kickstarter funds and the bullet points for anyone watching on the sidelines are: -The parties that agreed on an upfront payment for work/licensing were paid. -The rest of the money was taken by the Sea Serpent Games head as her cut. -It's presumably all gone because while she says people can email her for a refund, the ability to send out a refund is contingent on a pro bono lawyer being able to get a $5,000 deposit back from Kraken Print, -The creation of physical books for backers was apparently always meant to come from post-Kickstarter sales. Physical copies of the base rules were a standard backer tier, so that's pretty weird but okay. Nuns with Guns fucked around with this message at 19:37 on Sep 20, 2019 |
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Sep 20, 2019 19:29
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Nuns with Guns posted:I was debating bringing it back up but yeah while the thread was on lockdown there was a final update post about the kickstarter funds and the bullet points for anyone watching on the sidelines are: Yeeeesh oh man, that's not the way a barely finished Kickstarter should be functioning, let alone a loving 400% funded one.
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Sep 20, 2019 19:40
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Lumbermouth posted:Yeeeesh oh man, that's not the way a barely finished Kickstarter should be functioning, let alone a loving 400% funded one. That’s what gets me. If that were always the case, they should have made that clear. Instead, we have a crook buying a gaming pc and disappearing. I’m not anticipating a refund at all, though it sure would be nice. Yue is apparently the lead on this project. 
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Sep 20, 2019 20:02
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NickRoweFillea posted:That’s what gets me. If that were always the case, they should have made that clear. Instead, we have a crook buying a gaming pc and disappearing. I’m not anticipating a refund at all, though it sure would be nice. Oh, this is just like that other kickstarter for that comic book. I forget what it was called. The writer had done a KS to get a print run of the comic. But she had a breakdown and instead filmed herself burning all the comics then mocked the backers for thinking currency entitled you to someone's labor. At least, that's what my friend said happened. Anyway, this reminds me of that.
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Sep 20, 2019 20:07
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Covok posted:Oh, this is just like that other kickstarter for that comic book. I forget what it was called. The writer had done a KS to get a print run of the comic. But she had a breakdown and instead filmed herself burning all the comics then mocked the backers for thinking currency entitled you to someone's labor. There was a Far West comic book?
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Sep 20, 2019 20:10
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Covok posted:Oh, this is just like that other kickstarter for that comic book. I forget what it was called. The writer had done a KS to get a print run of the comic. But she had a breakdown and instead filmed herself burning all the comics then mocked the backers for thinking currency entitled you to someone's labor. Pictures for Sad Children wasn't it?
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Sep 20, 2019 20:11
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It just seems baffling that there are two team members who signed on to be paid via proceeds post-production who were not simply given even a nominal small share of the leftover $40 - $50k that was counted as profit, let alone not having just funded the production of books with the excess funds instead of waiting on nebulous pdf sales to finance that.
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Sep 20, 2019 20:13
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Lord_Hambrose posted:Pictures for Sad Children wasn't it? No idea. GaistHeidegger posted:It just seems baffling that there are two team members who signed on to be paid via proceeds post-production who were not simply given even a nominal small share of the leftover $40 - $50k that was counted as profit, let alone not having just funded the production of books with the excess funds instead of waiting on nebulous pdf sales to finance that. People in trpg stuff can be weird. I once had a guy who wanted to redo the layout of Dungeon Bastards. He offered, not me. He was a player in my Urban Shadows game. I offer to pay him. He refuses. He says he rather be paid in exposure. I clarify that I don't feel morally comfortable doing that. My book is tiny, I can offer no "exposure," and I morally disagree with the notion of paying people in exposure. He remains adamant. I relent. He does the work. He does a good job, for the most part. I took some issue, just like with my first layout guy, because he muddied with the text a bit. I didn't feel the pictures needed captions. But okay. I notice he didn't put his name on the book. He decided that, since Dungeon Bastards is so vulgar, he doesn't want to be associated with it. I offer to pay him for his work. He refuses. I say to at least put his name on it. It won't hurt him. He did a good job on the layout. He refuses. I relent.
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Sep 20, 2019 20:21
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Lord_Hambrose posted:Pictures for Sad Children wasn't it? Yes that was PFSC
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Sep 20, 2019 20:30
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Man. I really feel for whoever not-Yue is in that conversation. That's just an incredibly awful and awkward conversation to be having with someone. "Why should anyone else get to be happy?"
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Sep 20, 2019 20:34
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I'm honestly pretty frustrated that we were told here and on KS that it wasn't what it looked like, and how we were missing context and Noelle drew the wrong conclusion and everything was fine and then w h o o p s Amy confirmed that she'd paid herself everything that wasn't put into the first book's PDF and apparently the money was gone. Not only is this a lovely thing to happen to a system I was really exited to play legitimately, but I'm worried that Kamigakari's campaign going off a cliff and hitting some sharp rocks on the way down is going to be something that keeps coming up whenever people try to license other Japanese games for translation.
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Sep 20, 2019 21:09
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Thank god the thread was closed to protect *looks at notes* a scam artist?
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Sep 20, 2019 21:12
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I'd wait for that pattern to emerge before trying to predict it. We've also had stuff like Tenra Bansho Zero which was a bit late, but came out alright. I figure the same will be true for Shinobigami. Double Cross stopped because the guy doing it got sick, I believe.
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Sep 20, 2019 21:15
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ravenkult posted:Thank god the thread was closed to protect *looks at notes* a scam artist? I thing the thread was closed to protect the thread.
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Sep 20, 2019 21:44
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GaistHeidegger posted:It just seems baffling that there are two team members who signed on to be paid via proceeds post-production who were not simply given even a nominal small share of the leftover $40 - $50k that was counted as profit, let alone not having just funded the production of books with the excess funds instead of waiting on nebulous pdf sales to finance that. Yeah, one of those is me. I was the one that made that post immediately after Noelle's too. I honestly did not know that was she was going to think "Well, all the stuff I budgeted for was covered, so I guess the rest is mine???".  I wasn't stressed for cash, so I said I wouldn't mind taking payment later, since the Kickstarter money hadn't come in yet at the time. I'm not angry, but I'm tired.
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Sep 20, 2019 23:00
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I’ve also thrown in for the refund list on Kamigakari though I doubt anything will actually come from it. Oh friggin well.
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Sep 20, 2019 23:41
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Dawgstar posted:I'd wait for that pattern to emerge before trying to predict it. We've also had stuff like Tenra Bansho Zero which was a bit late, but came out alright. I figure the same will be true for Shinobigami. Double Cross stopped because the guy doing it got sick, I believe. You're probably right; I'm just uneasy because I remember hearing a lot of stuff about what a nightmare it was to get JTRPGs licensed around the time Double Cross came out (though that's been long enough and enough successful projects have been released that things may certainly have changed).
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Sep 20, 2019 23:48
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Agrias120 posted:I've really wanted a Super Sentai system, this looks great. Going to have to give the preview a look--my players might riot at a diceless system, but this seems great. Since a version of the game has been out since 2017, I downloaded it before backing the Kickstarter. First off, I can definitely see why people requested a full book with more game master advice. While a lot of us here are used to this kind of game, it would be very confusing to a Dungeon and Dragons fan. The version released in 2017 is roughly 12 pages long. It's written with the assumption you are familiar with games like Blades in the Dark, Apocalypse World, and the like. Considering the developers met over a game of Dungeon World, this shouldn't be a surprise. The fact this game has some pull in the Power Rangers community also probably had something to do with it. Apparently, they brought it to Morphcon last year and it did pretty well. They even snagged a quote from a Boom Comics executive, who are in charge of the Power Ranger comic's license, praising the game: “HENSHIN! combines the best elements of Sentai action - martial arts moves, monsters, and morphing - with explosive world building and gameplay that takes the RPG to new heights!” —Matt Levine, Associate Editor at BOOM! Studios for the Mighty Morphin Power Rangers comic The flip side of this, however, is a lot of exposure to general audiences outside of the tabletop rpg hobby. Considering the inspiration for this game engine is a niche of a niche, I can definitely see why customers got confused. The "this is not a Dungeon and Dragons hack" in the kickstarter is telling of the feedback they likely received from some fans. Secondly, I really like the engine they developed. It's clear they have a different paradigm than Vincent Baker, but is using the same basic concepts. The game still uses the "conversation", but you can tell they disagree with the random elements of PbtA. They eschew dice and replace it with a token system. It creates a nice gameplay flow. Players need to do actions that put themselves at risk to get tokens they need to solve problems. They can take actions that don't solve the problem and get them temporarily safe, but can't move things forward without taking risk. The later is needed to have a roleplaying game, but the former makes a nice back-and-forth with the game master and other players that pushes players to play in character and satisfy the cliches of the genre. I like the Colors, this game's classes. Each one is simple and to the point. While the game takes inspiration from a lot of sources, I like that it uses the Mighty Morphin Era so heavily in the Color selection. This isn't because I'm a fan of the MMPH era, the first three seasons of Power Rangers. I was born in 1993 so I actually never saw that show. My first Super Sentai was Power Rangers: Lost Galaxy. I like it because that works better with general consciousness. It's easier to get across that Red is the leader, Blue is the smart one, Yellow is the support, Black is the cool one, Pink is the heart of the team, and Green is the powerhouse to a play group since that's what people would be expecting. I like how subtly the game pushes players to play to character. Through the turn system, players are encouraged to act in a certain manner and rewarded for it. The different methods they acquire tokens keep them on point, but its all voluntary and never forced. If they want the Token, they do it. If they don't, they don't. Setting creation is simple and to the point. I like how its practically a checklist. It works well to do as the game says: "start with a simple concept and get complicated later." Looking at one of their modules, I can see how easily one can spin out a cool setting using this setup. I also like one of their examples is a pretty cool one that I haven't seen before: Super Sentai based on Hollywood monsters. My main downside is length. Players will prestige quickly. At the end of every session, the group votes on who will get a Raise, which is a level-up. Each Color has three potential raises. Presumably, you can only take each one once given their wording. One of them is basically a prestige option: Swap powers with someone, lose your powers, step down, or disappear. It was clarified that "swap powers with someone else" can be used to change your Color, which works well with the special colors that are made specifically to be added mid-game. But, still, this would mean players' characters do quickly end up on their way out. Which is odd for Super Sentai which is known to go on for roughly 49 episode seasons. However, I can tell the creators work from the modern gaming mind set where games are only supposed to last 6-12 sessions. This does fit in with that timescale. That said, I would like it better if there five or even six raises per characters so that play could go longer if the players wanted it to. I will say I could be wrong you can only take each Raise once as the rules never say as such. However, the wording seems to imply this to be the came. For example, here are the Yellow raises: Yellow Raises posted:Raises My only last gripe is justifying the 120 page version. The 12 page pdf is enough to run the game. While this could be said for most games in the style of PbtA, its usually done the opposite way: the book comes first then the play aids. It actually cheapens the book for the play-aids to be the sole game for three years before the book release. Still, there are a lot of things that could be better explained and are a little vague. Not to mention that I love the proposed additional Colors, modules, and Kamen Rider hack. As such, I backed the project. I'm iffy since I just found out what happened with that other KS. However, the fact that they managed to launch the game, support it, and bring it to conventions before this kickstarter makes me confident in their ability to deliver. Covok fucked around with this message at 00:11 on Sep 21, 2019 |
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Sep 21, 2019 00:03
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NickRoweFillea posted:That’s what gets me. If that were always the case, they should have made that clear. Instead, we have a crook buying a gaming pc and disappearing. I’m not anticipating a refund at all, though it sure would be nice. At the very least it appears Amy bought the computer stuff before the Kickstarter even launched. I'm under the impression she moved a couple of times and that might be where the bulk of the money went.
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Sep 21, 2019 00:41
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Nuns with Guns posted:
Yeah, that is not remotely okay. That is purestrain wishful thinking that means whoever budgeted the project was counting on the goodwill of strangers to ever get this published. Edit: Sharp reminder for anyone in this thread that does creative work. When working for someone on a KS, either you demand to be paid upfront, or accept that you're likely getting nothing for your efforts. There are good project managers who use KS, but they are few and far between, and even the well-intentioned fuckups leave people screwed. Liquid Communism fucked around with this message at 02:37 on Sep 21, 2019 |
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Sep 21, 2019 02:33
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So I backed SLA Industries 2e because they kinda sold me on it being less of a nightmare of 90s game design and being more cinematic using basic rules from the skirmish game but lmao it's way more skirmish game than I expected based on the quick start. "You can spend narrative points that you gain from being a stunting badass!" is said in the same breath of "keep track of your ammo because some forms of fire require you to have a minimum amount still in the clip" like Janus is trying to GM a game for me and honestly the art and stupidly excessively 90s world design are really all I want. If I actually try to run this game again I think I'll just use the Savage Worlds conversion, which is a system I understand roughly as much as SLA's but I know for a fact it's less cumbersome.
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Sep 21, 2019 02:44
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Liquid Communism posted:Yeah, that is not remotely okay. That is purestrain wishful thinking that means whoever budgeted the project was counting on the goodwill of strangers to ever get this published. That was never the plan. The first time she brought this up to the team was the first time we started asking, "Um where's all that money?" She told us a weird story that one of her dad's friends works with organized crime, and that her dad bullied her into letting him file her taxes, so she gave him 100% of the proceeds then he took them and left town, and that she was afraid to go to the police because he's connected to violent criminals and she doesn't know his real name or have any way of getting in touch with him. The stories kept changing, but from fairly early on it was evident that she almost immediately spent the whole thing. Some of us protested when she said she was going to charge the Backerkit stuff so she could afford to pay for the print run. We were pressing her about why she needed to use the Backerkit for that when she had tens of thousands unaccounted for. From what I understand from a friend who did some napkin math, she pulled about another $17k from Backerkit. Then once she drew from the Backerkit, she asked us what we thought about saying that the print run would be funded out of PDF sales post-release. We told her that was of course absurd, because she drew more than enough from the Backerkit. But she told us she'd spent it. We asked on what. She just ignored the question. She was supposed to have set aside about $15k as an emergency fund, which if there weren't any major setbacks, was supposed to be split between the other crew members, not her. We asked where that went. She said she spent it. We asked on what. She wouldn't say. Since then, she's reached out to me to demand I refund the deposit I was given to block out a month of work that came and gone, saying she needed it to fund the print run. So yeah.
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