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The reason portable AC units "suck" is for the exact reason you're attempting to recreate, but worse. It'll be nearly impossible to create something as "good" as a portable AC because window units use all three sides of the rear for air movement, and expect to be able to drip condensate out the bottom. If you're in a situation where a window unit won't work, sell it and buy a two-hose portable unit.
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Sep 18, 2019 04:22
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Qwijib0 posted:If you're in a situation where a window unit won't work, sell it and buy a
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Sep 18, 2019 15:07
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I have entertained the mini split idea but I do not like the mini split price.
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Sep 18, 2019 15:11
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SpartanIvy posted:I have entertained the mini split idea but I do not like the mini split price. I get that, but you can either have this work well or you can have it look like poo poo, be annoyingly loud and perform poorly. Those are really the only options.
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Sep 18, 2019 15:21
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Yeah I get that and I am in no way arguing my dumb idea is better in any way except cost, but that's kind of an important one for this application since I'm not going to be using it a ton and the value for a better system just isn't there. Additionally I'd have to run a 220v line out there for a minisplit and that would be a nightmare for so many reasons.
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Sep 18, 2019 15:34
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SpartanIvy posted:Yeah I get that and I am in no way arguing my dumb idea is better in any way except cost, but that's kind of an important one for this application since I'm not going to be using it a ton and the value for a better system just isn't there. You can get a 9k minisplit for under a grand self-installed on 120v. Money is a valid concern obviously. 12k btu tends to be where they require 220v.
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Sep 18, 2019 15:48
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SpartanIvy posted:Additionally I'd have to run a 220v line out there for a minisplit and that would be a nightmare for so many reasons. Is the whole thing on just one circuit? If already you have 2 circuits coming into the garage you might be able to rewire them to get your 220.
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Sep 18, 2019 17:14
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It's all on one 16amp circuit that is possibly shared with the kitchen, definitely shared with some other room if not the kitchen.  I do have a 220 line in there but that's being used for the clothes dryer.
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Sep 18, 2019 18:01
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SpartanIvy posted:It's all on one 16amp circuit that is possibly shared with the kitchen, definitely shared with some other room if not the kitchen. I mean if you line dry your clothes the minisplit could help!  Depending on the size of the wire to your garage you could swap in a subpanel. You said you wanted a $2000 ac unit for a few days a year right?
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Sep 18, 2019 18:27
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I've decided to play it safe and just turn my garage into a walk in freezer with it's own 3 phase power supply. What if I want to start my own amateur beef processing operation? I have to think long term on this as an investment.
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Sep 18, 2019 18:38
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SpartanIvy posted:I do have a 220 line in there but that's being used for the clothes dryer. Just wire up a changeover switch, that way you won't risk tripping the breaker and when you turn the big knob you can impersonate Sam Jackson and say 'hold onto your butts' 
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Sep 18, 2019 18:46
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SpartanIvy posted:I've decided to play it safe and just turn my garage into a walk in freezer with it's own 3 phase power supply. What if I want to start my own amateur beef processing operation? I have to think long term on this as an investment. Then you have the wrong thread, this one is for comfort cooling.  A two-hose portable and a holesaw for the door is the low end option. Another is to get a wall sleeve that fits your "free" window unit, and knock a hole through the brick. The best is mini-split. they were literally designed for what you want to do (retrofit cooling into an area not designed with it in mind). Also, whatever you do please consider insulation.
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Sep 18, 2019 23:52
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So I'm going to probably be buying a new AC system this winter, and I was hoping to get some input and recommendations/understanding to help with the decision! I've been getting quotes from different companies, and the company I'm currently leaning towards, sells both Bryant and American Standard. I'm in Arizona so the unit is going to be operating in high temperatures during the summer, and it looks like we'll be replacing our current 5 ton unit with another 5 ton unit. We have a gas furnace, but all but one company has proposed replacing the entire split system in order to maximize efficiency. The company I'm considering offered a Bryant packaged system that would hit approximately 16 SEER and qualify for local utility rebates, although the rebate isn't that much. It looks like it'd be the Bryant Legacy series, 105A, with a total installed price of around $8000. They also offer American Standard packages, with both 14 SEER or 16 SEER condensers as options. It would be the Silver series, and the quotes came in around $8700 and $9400). From the little I've been able to read, it seems as if I'd want to go for the 16 SEER unit, but then I'm not sure whether the American Standard unit is worth $1400 more? Reading a few HVAC forums, it seems as if most people consider the Bryant Legacy series to be "builder grade", and have talked about the AS Silver series' additional features that are helpful. Sound-wise, the Bryant is listed as being a little lower than the AS models, but I'm not sure how much it will end up mattering. The furnace from each has a high efficiency blower and seem pretty comparable. What's everyone's general view on Bryant?
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Sep 21, 2019 07:25
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SpartanIvy posted:So my garage gets pretty hot and I'd like to put an AC unit there. Not to interject my enviro-friendly tree-hugging into the thread but I figured this is worth asking. Do you spend all that much time in the garage? Does it really need to be air conditioned 24/7, or is a lot of the discomfort due to humidity that might be better served by just a dehumidifier and a fan or two pointed at where you tend to be working in it?
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Sep 21, 2019 17:39
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davebo posted:Not to interject my enviro-friendly tree-hugging into the thread but I figured this is worth asking. Do you spend all that much time in the garage? Does it really need to be air conditioned 24/7, or is a lot of the discomfort due to humidity that might be better served by just a dehumidifier and a fan or two pointed at where you tend to be working in it? This is a good point. I had AC in my last barn/workshop and never used it. I do use the hell out of the shop fan though. While I'll probably install AC in the new one for particularly nasty days where I'm working in there for long periods of time, it too will probably not get used all the much.
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Sep 21, 2019 18:30
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SourKraut posted:
More important than the equipment brand is the install, and if it's a packaged unit there's not much that can go wrong with that so it's probably fine. In the brand-scale, bryant is "tier 2" to carrier, and american standard is "tier 2" to trane, so they're in comparable model lines for price comparison and are more or less functionally identical to their carrier and trane counterparts.
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Sep 21, 2019 18:54
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davebo posted:Not to interject my enviro-friendly tree-hugging into the thread but I figured this is worth asking. Do you spend all that much time in the garage? Does it really need to be air conditioned 24/7, or is a lot of the discomfort due to humidity that might be better served by just a dehumidifier and a fan or two pointed at where you tend to be working in it? The reason I'm looking for a stand alone AC unit is so I only run it while I'm working out there. If I wanted 24/7 AC I would just hook a vent up to my main HVAC. Unrelated: I'm out camping and got an alert from my smart home stuff that a leak was detected in my AC drain pan. I immediately cut off my AC using the wifi thermostat and asked a friend to go check it out. I guess my drain line is clogged or something because it does have a little water in it. If not for Smart things I would have probably come back to a hosed up ceiling tomorrow afternoon.
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Sep 21, 2019 22:51
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SpartanIvy posted:The reason I'm looking for a stand alone AC unit is so I only run it while I'm working out there. If I wanted 24/7 AC I would just hook a vent up to my main HVAC. Well, I mean, ideally you should have two float switches, one on the unit, and another in the overflow pan to kill the unit automatically. And if you dont, you should get those. They're a whole lot less likely to fail than your smart sensor.
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Sep 22, 2019 04:22
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ExplodingSims posted:Well, I mean, ideally you should have two float switches, one on the unit, and another in the overflow pan to kill the unit automatically. What I love about home automation is all the high tech internet required stuff that insists on my interaction to solve basic problems. It's definitely better than a $5 limit switch.
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Sep 22, 2019 04:29
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Qwijib0 posted:More important than the equipment brand is the install, and if it's a packaged unit there's not much that can go wrong with that so it's probably fine. Thanks Qwijib0! I got an additional quote today, for a Trane packaged system. This contractor would make some changes to plenum, the duct work, etc., and add in a second return since they believe my current return is undersized for the size of the unit and what my house needs. None of the other HVAC companies had indicated to do that though (although this one was the first to do some type of air flow calc). Of course there are various options, with everything from Trane's basic units that would give SEER 14/SEER 15, up through 2-stage and VFD units. Overall I'm happy with what they're proposing, although now I have to figure out whether 2-stage/VFD would be worth it or not.
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Sep 23, 2019 23:52
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ExplodingSims posted:Well, I mean, ideally you should have two float switches, one on the unit, and another in the overflow pan to kill the unit automatically. It appears to have one, but it obviously didn't work since it should have tripped long before water was able to get into the pan. I didnt trust it based on other things I've found and I'm glad I didn't. Homeownership paranoia pays off again!
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Sep 23, 2019 23:58
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SpartanIvy posted:It appears to have one, but it obviously didn't work since it should have tripped long before water was able to get into the pan. I didnt trust it based on other things I've found and I'm glad I didn't. Homeownership paranoia pays off again! I had almost this same issue come up (minus the alert via an app; my alert was via water dripping from the ceiling), but could the internal evaporative coil pan itself be cracked/damaged? When we found out our secondary pan was rusted through, thanks to said dripping water, we had a company come out, flush the primary line, etc., and we had a shutoff switch installed also on the primary line. We also had the rusted through secondary pan replaced also, but there's no switch on it. About a week later, I noticed water again dripping from the pipe outside that is fed from the secondary pan, in addition to water going out of the primary drain line. The unit never tripped or anything via the switch, so I thought the switch wasn't good or hadn't been installed correctly. Called the company back out, they checked, and the primary line is still clear but they could see the water in the secondary pan. It turns out that the internal pan is probably cracked/corroded/etc. in a way that allows it to still provide some water to the primary drain line, but because the primary drain line isn't backing up, the float won't go off. The water that isn't going into the primary drain, is going straight down through the unit into the secondary pan and out the overflow line, but even if the secondary pan had a float/switch in it, it would only go off itself if it happened to be located immediately at the drain line connection, since the water coming into the secondary pan is draining out about as quickly as it's falling in. It all makes me think that some type of moisture sensor someone in the units themselves are probably the way to go.
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Sep 24, 2019 00:05
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That would make sense. The piece I think is a moisture sensor is a second small piece of pvc coming out right next to the main drip line in parallel and has two wires coming out the top. My thinking is it's supposed to back up first into there and trip that sensor, but it didn't happen. It would make sense if theirs s broken internal drip pan. However, based on the drip pan pattern, it looks like it overflowed from the air intake on the drip line which is like 6" above the supposed water sensor.
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Sep 24, 2019 01:23
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So I've finished getting quotes from various local companies, and I'm leaning towards going with a variable speed blower and variable speed condenser. In trying to do some research, it seems though like people say that to get the benefits of using a variable speed system, I'd have to have proper zoning setup? I wasn't planning on doing any zoning at the current time, so now it has me questioning whether I should go back to looking at other options.
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Oct 6, 2019 06:12
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No. You don't need zoning to make use of variable speed. If you have a house that has extreme variance in cooling load (multistory, poor insulation in the attic) variable speed allows zoning to work a lot better.
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Oct 6, 2019 14:25
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Variable speed is great, mine has that. It avoids the CLUNK-groooooooonnnnnnk sort of noise that compressors and blowers make when they're turned on by a contactor, too, which is nice. Aside from the high pitched whine from the condenser unit makes due to the PWM unit in the VFD, it's essentially silent at low speeds, and the first time I turned the indoor unit on it was so quiet I forgot until I started wondering why it was so cold inside.
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Oct 8, 2019 17:37
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How bad is the high pitched whine? The unit will be outside our bedroom and it’s your standard 90s wood frame poor builder-grade house.
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Oct 12, 2019 00:24
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Should be totally inaudible inside.
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Oct 12, 2019 02:42
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SourKraut posted:How bad is the high pitched whine? The unit will be outside our bedroom and it’s your standard 90s wood frame poor builder-grade house. On the lower settings my in-laws massive carrier unit with variable speed that was top of the line 7? 10? Years ago is confusingly quiet at low speed standing next to it. Single unit, multi zone, single floor, 2500 Sq ft ranch style (aka one long row of rooms) house.
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Oct 12, 2019 03:52
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H110Hawk posted:On the lower settings my in-laws massive carrier unit with variable speed that was top of the line 7? 10? Years ago is confusingly quiet at low speed standing next to it. Single unit, multi zone, single floor, 2500 Sq ft ranch style (aka one long row of rooms) house. Thanks all, that helps with the decision! My only last question is, most of the quotes I've gotten are for Trane systems, so that's what I've mostly been looking at. My latest one also quoted some Lennox units. Besides the fact that they (and others) have said that Lennox is often a bit more expensive, I also had seen on some of the sites like HVAC Talk, where people complain that Lennox is non-domestic made, or that parts are harder to come by. Is that something anyone here has had an issue with? I'm in Phoenix, and it seems like there's quite a few Lennox-associated dealers around, so I'd think that parts wouldn't be an issue.
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Oct 13, 2019 07:12
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I posted earlier about multi zone FHW systems and thermostats. I'm still trying to wrap my head around this. I will have 4 zones. If we pretend each zone needs to run for 25% of the time to keep the house warm, what's to keep each thermostat from requesting heat in sequence, thus making the system run constantly? Wouldn't it make more sense for the zones to coordinate a bit so that the burner can run less often? Does this not end up mattering at all?
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Oct 14, 2019 01:09
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Typically, in residential hot water systems. each zone has a stat. it either opens a valve or turns on a circulation pump, which sends hot water to said zone. the boiler only watches the water temp of the system, and fires whenever it drops below a setpoint. Theoretically yes, your zones could sequentially call, but your hot water system should have enough stored heat to even out the individual demand drops, meaning your boiler shouldn't need to fire for every single call. TLDR: Don't worry about it. If you want to, read the engineering documentation for your boiler it may specify the max cycles per hour the manufacturer recommends. If your boiler is exceeding it while all your zones are at setpoint, you may need to make changes.
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Oct 14, 2019 01:51
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My utility company is offering free smart thermostats (Nest E and Ecobee3 Lite, in case anyone has opinions on one vs the other.) I'm trying to figure out the wiring before I order one, specifically the Common Wire. When I open my old Honeywell thermostat, it's got an unused C terminal, and a disconnected blue wire. Down in the basement, the furnace/fan unit also has a C terminal, which is only connected to the central air unit. The blue wire is disconnected in the basement as well. Imgur link with photos of both and a quick wiring sketch: http://imgur.com/gallery/yfWj8qF Can I connect the unused blue wire to the C terminal on the blower unit, and have a Common wire for installing a smart thermostat?
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Oct 14, 2019 23:15
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It should be that easy, but be sure to cut power to everything before you mess with it. FWIW from what I read the Ecobee is the superior option these days and that's what I went with and have no regrets. There's a third party app/website called Beestat which let's you track all kinds of cool poo poo too which is nice.
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Oct 14, 2019 23:35
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Ecobee is great and comes with a power adapter that you can install at the controller to provide power and signalling over fewer wires than normal. https://support.ecobee.com/hc/en-us/articles/360009155051-Installing-your-ecobee-thermostat-with-the-Power-Extender-Kit-no-C-wire- It sounds like you have everything you need, though. That's the exact setup I had when I installed my ecobee. C was present, but not connected to anything on either end. I am dreading finding only two wires per zone or something like that in the new house (I'll just run new wire in that case).
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Oct 15, 2019 00:07
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TraderStav posted:Recap of the discussion. Quoting to bring you guys back to my issue over the end of the Summer. I'm having a bad HVAC year for my 3 year old system. Went to put the heat on and my Furnace is putting out code 57 "High pressure switch open, inducer on high speed". My understanding is that this means that the control board is asking if the inlet/outlet valves have proper pressure to proceed to the next step in the process when being called for heat. - My inducer fan is running - I feel cold air coming from my inlet pipe - Thinking there may be an obstruction (squirrel!) in my outlet pipe I ran some fishtape from the outside (no screens, need to get those put on...) and went quite a ways until I think I either found the furnace or a slight elbow somewhere, so no CLEAR obstruction at this point Rest of the causes all point to bad wiring or switches. My initial thought is that they did something when they replaced the coil inside my furnace a few months ago. I'm sure that if they did, they're going to find a way to explain why it's not their fault and I cover the labor. Everything appears to be in order, no obvious wires left hanging or pressure hoses not seated. Anything that I can check? I have the tech calling me in the morning as I intend to ask them about what they touch from the furnace operations side of things when they replace the coil and that I can check on my own before having them come out for a guaranteed $1K bill. (I am a pessimist at this point) 
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Oct 15, 2019 00:43
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SourKraut posted:How bad is the high pitched whine? The unit will be outside our bedroom and it’s your standard 90s wood frame poor builder-grade house. Like everyone else said, inaudible inside. It's easily heard from about 5 feet away outside but not offensive, and by 10 or 15 feet you really can't hear it much at all.
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Oct 17, 2019 10:52
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kastein posted:Like everyone else said, inaudible inside. It's easily heard from about 5 feet away outside but not offensive, and by 10 or 15 feet you really can't hear it much at all. Thanks! I'm just nervous how it compares against a 100% speed unit, something like a vacuum cleaner, etc., since we have a dog who has a seizure disorder and hates certain high-pitched whines. She can easily lay outside though when our existing old builders-grade 100% speed Goodman unit is going 10-15 feet away. Hoping now to get some Goon input and answers related to the quotes and such we've gotten. I'm heavily leaning now towards variable speed blower + variable speed compressor, but the last company I got a quote from, told me that they thought I could probably get what I want by doing a variable speed blower + two-stage compressor combination also, which could save me a decent bit of money. We're also now interested in adding at least one additional return since the manual J calcs a couple of them have performed indicated that our unit size (5 ton) is appropriate, but that our return duct size is undersized for a 5-ton unit. The existing return is outside our bedroom and it's definitely noisy when on. We also have a front office room that gets pretty warm since it has windows on two sides, which we're going to possibly add a return to in order to help. Company 1: * Option 1: Trane XR17 two-stage compressor + Trane XV80 variable speed furnace (16.00 SEER / 12.5 EER) - approx. $1000 more than the other two's quotes * Option 2: Trane XV18 variable speed compressor + Trane XC80 variable speed furnace. (18.00 SEER / 12.5 EER) - approx. $1100 more than the other two's quotes * A second return included, somewhere in our hallway that serves all of the bedrooms * Each additional return would cost $700 * They propose increasing the supply duct for the warm office I mentioned from the existing 10" to 12", but had also mentioned that the flow seemed reasonable currently * They would use "anti microbial treated" sheetmetal for the new plenums, whatever that means. * Company has been in business ~ 40 years * 2-year labor warranty standard Company 2: * Option 1: Trane XV18 variable speed compressor + Trane XC80 variable speed furnace (18.0 SEER / 12.5 EER) * Option 2: Lennox XC20 variable speed compressor + Lennox XC80 variable speed furnace (19.0 SEER / 13.0 EER) - approx. $1700 more than the Trane combo above, because "Lennox" * A second return included, placed in the front office room * For a Trane install, they will include a wireless sensor for the Trane t-stat to help with temperature balancing * They didn't quote the XR17 unit because they said with Trane's rebates, the XR17 is more expensive than the XV18... * Company has been in business for "70 years", though it's changed ownership/name during that time * 5-year labor warranty standard Company 3: * Option 1: Trane XR17 two-stage compressor + Trane XV80 variable speed furnace (16.00 SEER / 12.5 EER) * Option 2: Trane XV18 variable speed compressor + Trane XC80 variable speed furnace. (18.00 SEER / 12.5 EER) - approx. $1100 more than the other two * No additional return included * Each return would cost $750 * Company has been in business 7 years... * 2-year labor warranty standard I've asked for a quote from Company 2 for a Lennox combo of their 2-stage compressor with variable speed furnace, but I'm leaning toward them regardless given some of what they showed me and their 5-year labor warranty. I liked Company 3 but not being in business seemingly that long, plus being more due to not including a return, means they're not much less than Company 1. Company 2 is also the only one who would install a secondary condensate pan between the entire furnace/coil + plenum, while the other two would put it just under the coil and adjacent plenum. Sorry for the long post, but I keep finding various/conflicting info on some of the HVAC forums I've been reading on, and figured I'd probably get some more common sense feedback here.
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Oct 20, 2019 00:47
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SourKraut posted:Thanks! I'm just nervous how it compares against a 100% speed unit, something like a vacuum cleaner, etc., since we have a dog who has a seizure disorder and hates certain high-pitched whines. She can easily lay outside though when our existing old builders-grade 100% speed Goodman unit is going 10-15 feet away. Let me preface this by saying that while I do have some knowledge here, I am not a residential tech. I do commercial/industrial service work. Bear in mind, the more expensive your install, the longer it takes to break even on energy savings. The more complicated the equipment, the more parts there are to fail at some point, and the higher the cost of those replacement parts and the labor time to troubleshoot/install goes up as well. I tend to lean more towards simplicity rather than energy savings for the long haul. That being said, if I were to pick one, I would go with company 2 option 1. You are getting a much longer labor warranty with a company that has been in business for a long time and will most likely continue to be in business for the length of your warranty. The equipment quality of that option is on par with the rest of your options and you have a cheaper install cost with similar energy savings through variable speed components. A residential tech may chime in here and correct me, thats just my 0.02
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Oct 20, 2019 14:29
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TraderStav posted:Quoting to bring you guys back to my issue over the end of the Summer. Following up. Issue was completely unrelated to the coil install. He tested everything and one of the hoses going to the pressure sensor needed some cleaning out and then it held the correct pressure. Had I had the guts to start pulling things off I could've saved $158 but at least I didn't have to argue about proving they did this. I think it really sucks that a three year old unit has already had two service calls amounting to $650. Is this the current state of things due to the amount of complexity and components (relatively speaking compared to 40 years ago)? I never justified an appliance service plan before but not so sure anymore. Splitting the difference I'm considering opting for their maintenance plan. $189/yr for a spring and fall tune up (presumably checking and cleaning things like the hose and other connections before critical failure), no cost for the truck roll ($89 of that $158 was just to show up), and some discount on parts.
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Oct 20, 2019 14:44
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