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I'm looking at a 9700k build, water eventually but not for a bit. I have a noctua U12S on my 4690k, but that rig is going to go to my stepson, so if I use it I need something for the 4690k. Is there something thats cheap but better than the noctua out there? Or should I just grab something cheap for the i5 and use the U12S on the 9700k?
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Sep 20, 2019 18:51
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Thom P. Tiers posted:
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Sep 20, 2019 19:32
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The B450 Tomahawk Max I ordered is the last piece of hardware I need to fully complete my SO's build. Sucks that all the other pieces came in and I have to wait for the mobo to arrive next week. Hopefully the Max version alleviates the issues with Ryzen 3xxx. But I guess we'll see.
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Sep 20, 2019 19:56
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Thanks for all of the advice everyone! I've switched cases to the Phanteks ECLIPSE P350X ATX Mid Tower Case. I'm still waiting for my friend's thoughts on 1080p vs. 1440p for monitor. I think with all of the bios firmware issues I've read about and lacking wifi, I am going to stick to recommending the pricier motherboard.
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Sep 20, 2019 20:17
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Thom P. Tiers posted:While that's true, there is probably zero reason for them to be spending $200 on an x570 chipset. Do note that the Tomahawk has by far the most reported issues with the bios update for Ryzen 3 though.
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Sep 20, 2019 20:52
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Yea, I'm sorry, I probably picked a wrong board to mention. But, there are absolutely plenty of "cheap" motherboards for Ryzen 3000 to save you ~$50-75 and not having to buy an x570 board (which, again, that person most likely doesn't need). It isn't "cheaping out" on a motherboard to not get an x570 or spending ~$125 on one.
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Sep 20, 2019 21:25
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Constellation I posted:The B450 Tomahawk Max I ordered is the last piece of hardware I need to fully complete my SO's build. Sucks that all the other pieces came in and I have to wait for the mobo to arrive next week. Hopefully the Max version alleviates the issues with Ryzen 3xxx. But I guess we'll see. I do not understand MSI's US Distribution strategy. The Tomahawk MAX has been available in SEA, Eu, and Canada for a couple of months now while it only just appeared as a product page on B&H's site a couple of days ago (they're the only US retailer that even has a product page for it now). MSI US reps are on Reddit talking about how even they are completely in the dark about why it's not in the US yet or when it'll actually show up. There's also the discontinuation of the B450 Mortar which as far as I can tell only applies to the US, everywhere else has stock of the original and now the Mortar MAX. Two of MSI's most popular boards and they're both essentially unavailable in the US.
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Sep 20, 2019 21:31
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Aphrodite posted:Do note that the Tomahawk has by far the most reported issues with the bios update for Ryzen 3 though. That's sad to hear because MSi B450s are the only ones with cpu-less flash, so the only ones that have guaranteed compatibility when buying online. What sort of issue have people been having with MSi B450s that aren't also issues with other B450 boards or X570s? Is it just that they're slow to release bios updates, or are there other specific issues?
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Sep 20, 2019 21:36
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Scruff McGruff posted:I do not understand MSI's US Distribution strategy. The Tomahawk MAX has been available in SEA, Eu, and Canada for a couple of months now It's only been available to actually buy in Canada last week actually. The price is like $10 CAD cheaper than the non-Max version which was surprising. I'm assuming their strategy is to clear out as much stock as possible of the old boards? I have no idea, really.
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Sep 20, 2019 21:57
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Stickman posted:That's sad to hear because MSi B450s are the only ones with cpu-less flash, so the only ones that have guaranteed compatibility when buying online. What sort of issue have people been having with MSi B450s that aren't also issues with other B450 boards or X570s? Is it just that they're slow to release bios updates, or are there other specific issues? The main issues I saw when I was researching it were stability issues with random crashes, and failing to post very frequently. More often than not for some people. Every B450 board seemed to have some reports of these issues but the Tomahawk looked to be the most common. It could be a matter of popularity, but MSI reps have posted a few times specifically about issues with the Tomahawk on Reddit as well.
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Sep 20, 2019 22:01
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I think AMD definitely exaggerated about how simple it would be to use Zen 2 with older motherboards. I'm still not sure how Ryzen 3600 runs on the Asus B450-I because I've yet to see anyone online talk about it enthusiastically. It's usually "oh, it works, but the mouse doesn't work in the BIOS anymore, and the fans run at 100% all the time. And the RAM runs at 2133."
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Sep 20, 2019 22:26
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I bought an an ASUS ROG Strix x470i and it was super simple to flash with an old ryzen 1600 and booted first attempt and I'm running my ram at CL15 3400 now after the August BIOS updates. I was running it at CL16 3400 for a while until the new August update came out.  Not saying there aren't problems (because there definitely are), but there are also plenty of successful easy to boot Ryzen 3000 systems out there right now.(3700x for what it's worth and a 100% brand new everything) Thom P. Tiers fucked around with this message at 22:44 on Sep 20, 2019 |
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Sep 20, 2019 22:42
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What's the absolute cheapest B450-compatible chip in case I need one to flash up teh BIOS to work with a 3xxx?
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Sep 20, 2019 22:45
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AMD will send you a boot kit. https://www.amd.com/en/support/kb/faq/pa-100#faq-Short-Term-Processor-Loan-Boot-Kit
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Sep 20, 2019 22:48
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Thom P. Tiers posted:AMD will send you a boot kit. quote:Additionally, a summary or copy of communication with the motherboard manufacturer is requested to indicate why support from the Original Design Manufacturer (ODM) is not suitable. 
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Sep 20, 2019 22:50
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Thom P. Tiers posted:I bought an an ASUS ROG Strix x470i and it was super simple to flash with an old ryzen 1600 and booted first attempt and I'm running my ram at CL15 3400 now after the August BIOS updates. I was running it at CL16 3400 for a while until the new August update came out. Yeah I have a 2600 now but I don't think it's worth jumping in yet since I don't do anything intensive. Updating the BIOS was easy but I just can't find enough people talking abou tmy motherboard.
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Sep 20, 2019 22:55
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The reason for that is quite simple, because they sent out a poo poo load of boot kits for the 3x to 4x BIOS flash when Zen+ dropped, and they didn't get a lot of them back. They were sending out Ryzen 5 1600s out, and a lot of people just kept the suckers.
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Sep 20, 2019 22:57
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orange juche posted:The reason for that is quite simple, because they sent out a poo poo load of boot kits for the 3x to 4x BIOS flash when Zen+ dropped, and they didn't get a lot of them back. I understand why, but I feel like it's going to be 3000+ pages of "MSI* Stopped Giving Fucks After My Payment Cleared"? *: Any of them, really. MSI is only currently the most visible.
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Sep 20, 2019 23:01
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Aphrodite posted:The main issues I saw when I was researching it were stability issues with random crashes, and failing to post very frequently. More often than not for some people. Every B450 board seemed to have some reports of these issues but the Tomahawk looked to be the most common. Thanks! My guess is that it's at partly popularity since it's such a ubiquitous board, but I know they've been slow on their bios updates, too. I'll keep a closer eye on it for future recommendations! Mu Zeta posted:I think AMD definitely exaggerated about how simple it would be to use Zen 2 with older motherboards. I'm still not sure how Ryzen 3600 runs on the Asus B450-I because I've yet to see anyone online talk about it enthusiastically. It's usually "oh, it works, but the mouse doesn't work in the BIOS anymore, and the fans run at 100% all the time. And the RAM runs at 2133." The "mouse doesn't work in BIOS" isn't a bug so much as a trade off with size the bios ROM and the large number of processors supported by the motherboard. It's less of a 3rd-gen Ryzen thing and more of a "supporting 3 generations of processors means that we had to cut the fancy ui to make room". The RAM issues are unfortunately also present in the X570 boards, but they basically boil down to motherboard manufacturers not nailing down proper stable XMP values for every RAM kit yet (+ RAM support usually gets better as microcode matures). It's a pain, but if your system doesn't post at XMP speeds, you can usually get it working with a few minor tweaks to XMP values - just bumping up the voltage slightly will often do the trick. Fans running at 100% all the time sounds like the issue where the cpu idles at high voltages, which isn't B450-specific. It sounds like AMD has fixed with the newest AGESA (ABBA), which should be available on most motherboards now. There's definitely teething issues with 3rd-gen Ryzen, but most of them aren't B450 specific (which unfortunately means they'll still show up on expensive X570 boards). Their new update kit program is pretty unnecessarily passive-aggressive. I feel like at that point you might as well just not advertise the program and just give out kits on an individual basis. Or just get a credit card # and charge $60 if you don't get your Athlon back? Hopefully they'll learn the right lesson and require all motherboard partners to include CPU-less flashing for the next generation. Stickman fucked around with this message at 23:08 on Sep 20, 2019 |
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Sep 20, 2019 23:02
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Just one thing I'm wondering about re: mainboards. So there was no change from 2xxx to 3xxx AMD CPUs? No new mainboards or RAM specs or anything?
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Sep 20, 2019 23:36
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Looking to upgrade my computer's CPU, for better performance in VR and general multitasking. My current system hitches in VR and has noticeable framerate issues with a video on one monitor and a game on another. What country are you in? Canada What are you using the system for? VR, programming, some 3D modeling. What's your budget? Around $700 for CPU + MB + RAM. If you’re doing professional work, what software do you need to use? Browsers and text editors. My current machine is fine here. If you're gaming, what is your monitor resolution? How fancy do you want your graphics, from “it runs” to “Ultra preset as fast as possible”? 1440p 144Hz and 1080p 60Hz, but besides VR most titles I play aren't graphically demanding. I'm fine with lowering settings. I'm considering buying this: CPU: AMD Ryzen 5 3600 3.6 GHz 6-Core Processor ($279.00 @ Canada Computers) Motherboard: MSI B450M GAMING PLUS Micro ATX AM4 Motherboard ($114.99 @ Canada Computers) Memory: Corsair Vengeance LPX 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR4-3200 Memory ($114.99 @ Canada Computers) Total: $508.98 Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available PCPartPicker Part List And the existing system looks like this: CPU: Intel i5-4570 Motherboard: MSI B85M-G43 Memory: 12GB DDR3 (probably pairs of 4GB and 2GB?) Storage: 2x Samsung 850 EVO, 2x WD Red NAS Video Card: Gigabyte GeForce GTX 1660 Ti 6 GB OC Video Card Case: Fractal Design Define Mini MicroATX Mini Tower Case Power Supply: EVGA SuperNOVA G2 750 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply Optical Drive: Yes. The main question I have is about the motherboard. It's the mATX version of one that's shown up a bunch in this thread, is it a good choice? Main differences I see are fewer RAM slots, different audio, fewer SATA connectors.The fewer SATA connectors could be an issue, but I often leave at least one drive or the DVD drive disconnected as-is and could get a USB DVD drive if I really want them all hooked up at once. I'm mainly concerned it will have some other problem, especially since this page is discussing BIOS issues with these boards! I'd rather an ATX board, if only to make future upgrades easier, but I'd need a new case. I've only briefly glanced at the Meshify C and noticed it's a better size than my case but wants a power supply 5mm shorter (current is 180mm L). There might be an option here if I don't need to add the cost of a new PSU. Met48 fucked around with this message at 00:27 on Sep 21, 2019 |
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Sep 20, 2019 23:47
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Schadenboner posted:The 3600 is the first one that hyperthreads* right (to 6/12)? The 3400G is just** 4/4? The first AMD CPUs with SMT were the first gen Ryzen 1000 parts from 2017, still kind of late to the party as Intel has been doing SMT (which they call hyperthreading) since 2002.
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Sep 21, 2019 00:11
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, I'm old af and all this poo poo still seems magical fast to me.
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MaxxBot posted:The first AMD CPUs with SMT were the first gen Ryzen 1000 parts from 2017, still kind of late to the party as Intel has been doing SMT (which they call hyperthreading) since 2002. Sorry, I was unclear: what is the lowest of the 3xxx chips that does this thing?
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Sep 21, 2019 00:46
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The 3600.
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Sep 21, 2019 00:50
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The 3400G has it, it's just a generation behind architecturally.
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Sep 21, 2019 01:06
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Llamadeus posted:The 3400G has it, it's just a generation behind architecturally. Do you have to (can you) unlock it somehow? Everywhere I see says it's 4 core/4 thread?
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Sep 21, 2019 01:12
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Schadenboner posted:Do you have to (can you) unlock it somehow? Everywhere I see says it's 4 core/4 thread? Maybe you're seeing the 3200G which is 4/4? Both the 3400G and the predecessor 2400G are 4/8.
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Sep 21, 2019 01:16
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Anarch posted:Maybe you're seeing the 3200G which is 4/4? Both the 3400G and the predecessor 2400G are 4/8. 
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Sep 21, 2019 01:21
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Ugh, the 3950x isn't coming out until November.
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Sep 21, 2019 01:26
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Running my new computer through the ropes finally, does the Ryzen 3700X run naturally hotter than Intels? My old comp's idle temp was around 30-35C (it's an Intel i5-4590 built five years ago), the new one with the Ryzen seems to idle between 35-50C. If it's supposed to that's fine, but I just wanted to make sure.
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Sep 21, 2019 02:13
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Are you using power saver mode? On my Ryzen 2600 it idles at 40 in power saver. It's at 50 on "Ryzen Power Balanced."
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Sep 21, 2019 02:27
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I updated the drivers and set it the AMD Ryzen Balanced.
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Sep 21, 2019 02:30
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Seems normal. I saw a lot of people saying Ryzen Balanced keeps things running hot by default. https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&channel=cus&q=amd+ryzen+balanced+runs+hot edit: I looked in the advanced settings for Ryzen Balanced and it keeps the minimum processor state at 90%. That explains it. I would just lower it to 50% or something and try that for a while. Mu Zeta fucked around with this message at 02:55 on Sep 21, 2019 |
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Sep 21, 2019 02:38
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Mine is actually at 99%, so I dropped it to 50%. We'll see what that does. Edit: Per a Google search, I reduced the MAXIMUM processor state from 100% to 99% and now the idle temps are holding steady at 36C, at least for now. CVagts fucked around with this message at 07:24 on Sep 21, 2019 |
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Sep 21, 2019 03:08
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Remember too that a lot of software like HWinfo64 queries the system in such a way that some ryzen processors apparantly don't get to certain low-power states that they would otherwise. There was an AMD post that was linked in here a month or 3 ago that discussed this. They said to use CPU-Z for monitoring as it didn't have that problem.
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Sep 21, 2019 03:20
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I see there's a lot of panic about amd's boot kit & also msi boards. Thought I'd share my experience: getting a boot kit wasn't hard at all. I'm running a 3600 on an msi b450I gaming plus ac. (mini-itx). Yes, you get the basic looking bios, no, that doesn't matter. I've had 0 issues so far. PBO and XMP enabled (ddr4-3466 cl16)
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Sep 21, 2019 07:53
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Mu Zeta posted:Seems normal. I saw a lot of people saying Ryzen Balanced keeps things running hot by default.
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Sep 21, 2019 08:42
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HalloKitty posted:I see there's a lot of panic about amd's boot kit & also msi boards. I'll chime in as well and say my 3700x on a B450m mortar mATX has had no problems since launchwitg the same ram timings and boosts set as above.
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Sep 21, 2019 08:47
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Been running the B450 Tomahawk with a Ryzen 3600 for three weeks now, have had zero issues whatsoever. Motherboard came preloaded with Ryzen 2 BIOS so I didn't have to update or flash either.
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Sep 21, 2019 13:06
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The Rat posted:Oh hey convenient, cooler chat Thermals and performance are identical to more expensive coolers, and most importantly it's quiet and has great RAM clearance. I have an NH-D14 that I ordered an AM4 mounting kit for, but I won't bother using it. Pretty much any decent mid-high end cooler will work fine with zen2. They don't really throw off that much heat. Khorne fucked around with this message at 17:01 on Sep 21, 2019 |
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Sep 21, 2019 16:58
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