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God damnit Tom Watson is a loving cockroach, and I mean that to refer to his baffling survivability, ethics, and angry little face. E: a bog beggin for a boop 
Bobby Deluxe fucked around with this message at 12:27 on Sep 21, 2019 |
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Sep 21, 2019 12:22
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Comrade Fakename posted:Lansman was a loving idiot for pulling this bollocks behind Corbyn‘s back. No poo poo he reversed it. Sweeping purges of wreckers would be cathartic as hell, and a good idea in the long term, but an completely loving stupid idea at a conference just weeks/months before an election Labour absolutely cannot lose. The argument for this is that if you can punt the wreckers out now then you won’t be fighting the plp when you’ve been elected to power already, crippling your government, sending you back to the polls and having to defend being useless the first time round. This kind of stuff always happens at conference, the media always gawps at it and says “oh my what a terrible way to run a political party” while either intentionally or stupidly leaving out the fact that it’s a democratic institution and the party is supposed to disagree with itself in an open forum to come to a majority consensus.
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Sep 21, 2019 12:22
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Firos posted:The best thing about Big John is that times interview where he says he could still be arrested for the naughtiest thing he ever did...then after a pause goes haha just kidding. “As plotters go... they’re loving useless”
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Sep 21, 2019 12:23
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jBrereton posted:Watson was briefing against the party's position on brexit as soon as it was announced. He is a tireless gobshite. Not ejecting him from the party will not bring relief to the bad press. not sure I agree with your brexit argument but this is 100% spot on. Corbyn is too loving nice, it will be the end of him
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Sep 21, 2019 12:24
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Sanitary Naptime posted:This kind of stuff always happens at conference, the media always gawps at it and says “oh my what a terrible way to run a political party” while either intentionally or stupidly leaving out the fact that it’s a democratic institution and the party is supposed to disagree with itself in an open forum to come to a majority consensus. Not to mention that they've already forgotten about a purge of 21 MPs less than a month ago
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Sep 21, 2019 12:25
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At this point we need the angriest socialist available. We need a lenin that can inspire and rile people up
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Sep 21, 2019 12:26
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jBrereton posted:Corbyn is a massive electoral liability outside of the party membership. It has never not been that way, and it will never not be that way. It's not like people don't know who he is or haven't formed an opinion about him at this point. This would be the case for literally any left-labour leader because they will always be subject to a hostile media. Hell, even Ed was too much for the press. Corbyn is potentially doing better than an alternative would because he's so clearly a relatively boring pacifist grandpa despite everyone yelling that he's actually Hitler and also Stalin at the same time. While I think he'd be a better leader and could defend himself better, those kind of attacks would stick far easier vs someone like McDonnell. Also, I'm not at all convinced that Corbyn is so hated amongst the general population as people seem to assume. I'm very suspicious of the polling here.
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Sep 21, 2019 12:27
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Bobby Deluxe posted:God damnit Tom Watson is a loving cockroach, and I mean that to refer to his baffling survivability, ethics, and angry little face. A quick google image search leads me to suggest that a cockroach's face is more just kind of impassive than angry.
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Sep 21, 2019 12:27
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If the press are going to treat anyone left of Blair like a stalinist then why not get an angry stalinist in to really scare them
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Sep 21, 2019 12:28
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Igotadigbick posted:If the press are going to treat anyone left of Blair like a stalinist then why not get an angry stalinist in to really scare them Fair point tbh
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Sep 21, 2019 12:29
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ThomasPaine posted:Also, I'm not at all convinced that Corbyn is so hated amongst the general population as people seem to assume. I'm very suspicious of the polling here. He won't fire nukes, he cannot be in charge.
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Sep 21, 2019 12:29
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Corbyn has massive appeal to young working class people, & leftists of all stripes regardless of party positions. Remember the 2017 campaign, the yoofquake, Glastonbury, the Grime Minister meme?
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Sep 21, 2019 12:30
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As someone mentioned before, polling data is unreliable because I doubt polls go out to anyone under 40. I’m 33, and I haven’t seen or received jack poo poo, ever, nor any polling calls. I bet my Nan is being inundated with calls and post. Diet Crack fucked around with this message at 12:34 on Sep 21, 2019 |
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Sep 21, 2019 12:31
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Sanitary Naptime posted:The argument for this is that if you can punt the wreckers out now then you won’t be fighting the plp when you’ve been elected to power already, crippling your government, sending you back to the polls and having to defend being useless the first time round. This is true of almost any other conference. This one is different - it’s effectively the start of the Labour election campaign, and the party should be on a high considering what happened in parliament over the last few weeks. It should be an opportunity to contrast with the incredible shitshow the Tory conference will likely be, and show that the party is united and ready to lead government. And if Labour doesn’t form the next government the country is literally doomed. Purges play very well to us lot, but incredibly badly to everyone else. They may be necessary, but should only be done when the limelight is not so firmly on the party, for instance at one of the most important party conferences ever. John Lansman is a loving idiot for pulling this at a time when Labour was in an extremely good position. Watson humiliated himself with that referendum bollocks, he’s not an immediate danger. And pretty clearly Corbyn agrees with me.
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Sep 21, 2019 12:36
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Bobby Deluxe posted:God damnit Tom Watson is a loving cockroach, and I mean that to refer to his baffling survivability, ethics, and angry little face. Cockroaches are fine things and harmless, and people only resent them because they don't respect human delineated boundaries of private property. Cockroaches are comrades. Watson's a bollock.
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Sep 21, 2019 12:37
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I'm pretty anti nuke but if a candidate said they would nuke Eton I'd be all up for that
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Sep 21, 2019 12:38
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The optics have the potential to be damaging though. The fact that we’re discussing it as “oh my god labour what the gently caress are you doing” doesn’t bode too well. Will it affect the party and it’s ability to win a GE? Very hard to put any metrics on it at this point in time. Not ideal whichever way you cut it.
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Sep 21, 2019 12:38
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Yeah the fact that labour chose this exact moment to shoot itself in the dick is loving depressing.
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Sep 21, 2019 12:40
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It's just the cosmic rule "as victory becomes more possible, labour infighting increases" Genuinely don't expect them to ever stop because they won't and the more crucial the time becomes the more they'll do it
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Sep 21, 2019 12:41
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Labour's Brexit position will take over the news as soon as election season starts ramping up, and ending austerity combined with genuinely letting the people decide without obvious ulterior motives is looking to be a powerful combo. I'm rolling my eyes over Lansman, but the press is going to be forced to drop these kind of stories when an election is on because the public won't give a poo poo at that point.
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Sep 21, 2019 12:42
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ThomasPaine posted:This would be the case for literally any left-labour leader because they will always be subject to a hostile media. Hell, even Ed was too much for the press. Corbyn is potentially doing better than an alternative would because he's so clearly a relatively boring pacifist grandpa despite everyone yelling that he's actually Hitler and also Stalin at the same time. While I think he'd be a better leader and could defend himself better, those kind of attacks would stick far easier vs someone like McDonnell. quote:Also, I'm not at all convinced that Corbyn is so hated amongst the general population as people seem to assume. I'm very suspicious of the polling here. The party recently got loving buried in the EU elections. In every single one of the last month's about 20 by-elections, Labour has lost vote share where it was already running candidates - in some of them very significantly, and it has lost seats across the country. The one apparent increase in vote share was in one constituency where Labour hadn't run a candidate before, there was no green candidate (who was on about 5% of the vote), and they got less than 10% of the vote. The unpopularity of the party leader has quite a lot to do with that, whatever the "local factors" that get blamed whenever a party loses seats.
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Sep 21, 2019 12:42
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ThomasPaine posted:Also, I'm not at all convinced that Corbyn is so hated amongst the general population as people seem to assume. I'm very suspicious of the polling here. This is what UKIP and BXP have been relying on (a party with no MPs acting as if they are the opposition), and also the way the Lip Dems were acting around the proposal of a rainbow coalition (that a party with less than 20 mps could pretend they had more right to lead a coalition over a party with nearly 250). And the BBC are letting this happen by platforming these bellends, because they know it harms Labour. Steve Bannon's been banging on about it for years and the depressing thing is, when the political right can buy ad space and pay off the press, it is working. It's definitely working on centrist melts who (if actually listened to Corbyn's policies) would probably agree. But instead they are being blinded by the press repetition of this idea that he's 'unelectable.' It's awful because it's entirely artificial and manipulative, but it's definitely there. And every time the left fights a big fight, you always get people on the left saying 'nah, the public are sensible, they'll see the truth,' and then the UK votes leave, or votes against AV, or polls against Corbyn.
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Sep 21, 2019 12:45
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Lansman really is loving useless
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Sep 21, 2019 12:49
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More like glansman
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Sep 21, 2019 12:51
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Guavanaut posted:I'll take an end to free movement with Diane Abbott as home secretary over free movement with Sajid Javid or Frontbench Team Christine Sardine as home secretary. How will an end to free movement work with the Irish border, though?
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Sep 21, 2019 12:52
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Guavanaut posted:That's very unfair to cockroaches.
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Sep 21, 2019 12:54
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jBrereton posted:visibly effete, prevaricating, and inept. uh isn't he the most successful opposition leader in UK history? also I googled effete and it says it means effeminate and I'm not sure thats a cool thing to say
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Sep 21, 2019 12:56
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ThomasPaine posted:Also, I'm not at all convinced that Corbyn is so hated amongst the general population as people seem to assume. I'm very suspicious of the polling here. Bobby Deluxe posted:I can't remember what the theory is called, but the media can pull the majority toward a minority opinion very easily, by artificially inflating opinions, making the vocal minority speak up and amplifying their voices, and in your average person who isn't wise to the trick, make them think 'well if that many people believe it,maybe there's something to it.' Those people will then start acting against their own interests in the name of being 'rational' or 'realistic,' and ends up bolstering the minority. In my own anecdotal experience, this is definitely the case. Over the last few years UK media has been so brazen with carefully phrased headlines and cherry-picked quotes to paint the worst possible picture of Corbyn. The net result is that anyone paying little attention to politics ends up with a negative view. Anyone I've talked to in my office about politics has this impression but can't really explain why they don't like Corbyn. They've just heard so much negative background noise that it has gradually become the truth to them. Corbyn's strongest support comes from people who get to hear what he has to say directly, without his message being twisted or ignored. That's why there was such a huge reversal from the 2017 campaign trail.
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Sep 21, 2019 12:57
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kecske posted:uh isn't he the most successful opposition leader in UK history? also I googled effete and it says it means effeminate and I'm not sure thats a cool thing to say no but corbyn bad (hasnt cancelled brexit)/(is preventing brexit from happening) [delete inapplicable option] antisemitic
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Sep 21, 2019 12:59
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Darth Walrus posted:How will an end to free movement work with the Irish border, though? I won't call it easy, or say that nobody will end up hosed over, but I'd trust a left Labour movement policy outside the EU over a randian fountainman movement policy inside the EU, the EU already gives plenty of latitude to Windrush people.
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Sep 21, 2019 13:02
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Great now they're gonna say "COWARD STALINIST CORBYN TRIES TO OUST WATSON BUT U-TURNS AFTER TONY BLAIR TELLS HIM AWAY" I mean if the press was gonna slam Corbyn and Labour anyway, might as well have gotten rid of the gently caress
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Sep 21, 2019 13:02
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This thread has given me good answers about problems with my job before so I've got another situation that has come up. I have a contracted job at a library that I really enjoy, but it's not the best paying and is only part time. For years now I've had a casual contract at a museum a building services guy and have worked most Mondays and weekends. Until recently we had a decent supervisor who made sure all the casuals got a fair amount of hours, but he's since moved on. The supervisor that took over decided that the best way to allocate shifts was just to give the lion's share to two old blokes who have retired and evidently can't stand their wives so they'd rather continue to go to work. I'm obviously not pleased with this news, as it's shifts for the next three months, and my hours have taken a massive cut. I worked it out for three months, I'm getting 70 hours and one of the olds is getting 220... mostly on days that I could have worked. I took this matter up with management and was told that it was done this way because they didn't have time to work out a fair rota. Problem is, I've been a supervisor elsewhere and know that with such a small team (five casuals) to rota, it literally takes about two hours every month. I even showed them that with five casuals, and five days of the week, it's an even simpler job. Added to this that the manager in question is known to stroll in at ten, takes a two hour lunch, and leaves at half three. What really boils my piss is that I know for a fact that the two people getting most of the shifts are retired with solid pensions and paid off mortgages... meanwhile, I'm utterly hosed without those extra hours. Have I got anything left to throw at management? I was going to point out that actions likes have consequences for people's lives, but I know I can't get too much into criticising management as I'm relying on their goodwill to continue giving me what few shifts are left.
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Sep 21, 2019 13:05
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kecske posted:uh isn't he the most successful opposition leader in UK history?
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Sep 21, 2019 13:05
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jBrereton posted:In every single one of the last month's about 20 by-elections, Labour has lost vote share where it was already running candidates - in some of them very significantly, and it has lost seats across the country.
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Sep 21, 2019 13:09
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jBrereton posted:No, on the very obvious grounds that he hasn't won an election he contested and become PM, unlike actually successful former leaders of the opposition. That's overly simplistic, in 2017 Labour shot out of the rut it had been in for years, won a record share of the vote. You have to factor in the point they started from, and the relentless attacks from the right wing press and NL wreckers. Ive decided that currently things are okay, sucks Watson may yet stay but until late yesterday there was no suggestion of him going at all. We now have a discussion about the deputy role which hopefully compels Watson to do the job or get out.
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Sep 21, 2019 13:13
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Tom Watson is a great example of a numerical minority controlling the conversation. You have one MP who misrepresents both Corbyn and the NEC's position over brexit. But the BBC reports it as 'Labour MP says they want a referendum before an election.' And so the public get the impression that the Labour Party is divided when in reality it's one wanker being disingenuously signal boosted. Similar problem with #sacklauakuenssberg trending. The BBC are pretending that it's pro-corbyn trolls and misogynists, and misrepresenting which tweet they're attacking. But if there was a hashtag about deselecting corbyn the BBC and the papers would be all over that poo poo demanding his resignation. The cumulative effect is that every time it happens, every time it goes unchallenged, it harms Corbyn's image with the manipulatable public. And as much as I love Corbyn I can't help but feel Labour's press office or legal wing should be doing more to combat this because it's absofuckinglutely out of control now. We hang onto this myth that if we give the opposition enough rope they'll hang themselves, but is that really true? Is it true enough? Does it work where it really matters? Couldn't we be doing better if we did fight back more? E: This is one of the few things I do disagree with Corbyn on, the 'kinder politics' as it applies to not vocally criticising and capitalising on every single mis-step the tories make. He's definitely gotten angrier since the early days, especially at PMQs, but I still feel like there's something going wrong. I follow Corbyn, Momentum and the Labour feeds on most social media and even I don't really feel like they're making as much noise as they could be - god knows how much filters through to the average person who just goes by the papers & beeb. Bobby Deluxe fucked around with this message at 13:25 on Sep 21, 2019 |
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Sep 21, 2019 13:13
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Igotadigbick posted:Yeah the fact that labour chose this exact moment to shoot itself in the dick is loving depressing.
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Sep 21, 2019 13:18
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Where will run Labour's press office publications? At the moment it seems like it's the Mirror and the Morning TERF and a bunch of blogs against the whole British press machine, and the battleground issues whichever social media bubble you're in.
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Sep 21, 2019 13:19
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Darth Walrus posted:How will an end to free movement work with the Irish border, though? Being able to freely cross the border is not the same as freedom of movement. You can either have a border on the Irish Sea, or just say "EU citizens are able to freely enter and leave the UK but they don't get the right to work". Given the Four Freedoms are indivisible there's probably no way of achieving any kind of socialist programme without ending freedom of movement, because while the majority of people are of course concerned with freedom of movement of people and goods, the freedom of movement of businesses and capital is what allows companies to get away with basically paying zero tax in the UK.
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Sep 21, 2019 13:32
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Honestly, I don't reckon Tom Watson is as important as you guys are acting. Without the deputy leadership all that would change is that instead of a senior Labour source leaking, it's just a Labour source. Plus, with the conferences going on it's going to get buried in the news pretty quick. It's a shame not to get rid of the skiving melt, but as long as Corbyn doesn't keel over it should be fine.
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