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My understanding was that bi is basically about fancying both cis men and women and pan is that you dont care about gender identity.
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Sep 23, 2019 17:00
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Basically any time there's a weird pedantic argument about a term in LGBTQ circles it's TERFs trying to start poo poo. The most obvious and annoyingly persistent example of this being "queer is a slur" bullshit that got started when trans people started really getting behind the word as an inclusive umbrella term.Namtab posted:My understanding was that bi is basically about fancying both cis men and women and pan is that you dont care about gender identity. njsykora fucked around with this message at 17:05 on Sep 23, 2019 |
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Sep 23, 2019 17:00
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OwlFancier posted:Ehhh, given that the other day saw the streets overrun with angry gen z cannibals I really don't get the dislike for student politics. If more people were politically active as students that would be a good thing, and politics is relative to one's environment, so it's going to heavily feature stuff that isn't relevant to the outside world. But it's good practice, I think. Cannibals!?
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Sep 23, 2019 17:01
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I am firmly of the belief that gen z will eat us all and I welcome it.
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Sep 23, 2019 17:03
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There was a line in that post about it costing billions to transform private to state schools. Would it not be more useful to think in terms of percentages? The 1825 independent schools listed on the dfe site pales in comparison for the 21402 academies and local authority maintained schools. Taking on those schools - even without consolidation / integration of schools - would only affect the education budget by a few percent. (Of course the money being spent isn't ethered so it's kind of moot anyway).
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Sep 23, 2019 17:03
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OwlFancier posted:I am firmly of the belief that gen z will eat us all and I welcome it. As long as i can claim all the people who attended private school its fine
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Sep 23, 2019 17:05
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OwlFancier posted:Ehhh, given that the other day saw the streets overrun with angry gen z cannibals I really don't get the dislike for student politics. If more people were politically active as students that would be a good thing, and politics is relative to one's environment, so it's going to heavily feature stuff that isn't relevant to the outside world. But it's good practice, I think. Yeah but there's student politics and then there's Student Politics and they are not the same thing.
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Sep 23, 2019 17:07
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I'd suggest there's probably a fair bit of crossover.
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Sep 23, 2019 17:07
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OwlFancier posted:Ehhh, given that the other day saw the streets overrun with angry gen z cannibals I really don't get the dislike for student politics. If more people were politically active as students that would be a good thing, and politics is relative to one's environment, so it's going to heavily feature stuff that isn't relevant to the outside world. But it's good practice, I think. Yeah, but she was into Student Politics. Y'know, the sort of careerist bollocks that appealed to the likes of Wes Streeting. It's not a "grumble grumble young people" thing, I promise.
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Sep 23, 2019 17:08
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a great many people have a prickly emotional attachment to their schools and declaring war on them, any of them, is difficult this lesson was why the UK came to have the outcome it has today of the mixed system in the wake of the collapse of the tripartite education consensus - once the big victories were won, the cleanup just was not worth the political effort whilst the costs are large, the benefits measured in egalitarianisms thus achieved are questionable - one has the problem, the very obvious problem, of the quality of good comprehensive schools translating directly into local house prices. What one does not pay in fees is thus paid in one's mortgage if there is a hope for Labour in this gambit, it is in hoping that the argument over grammars and selection is passé, and can instead now be fought in terms of privilege and the private schools, at least as far as that electoral prize of the squeezed middle go (those on the left may be taken for granted to oppose both). There is some longstanding focus grouping that underpins this; there are simply too few grammars now and for a great many in the middle, their choice may be between a state and a private, and the fees may now be just too damned high to tolerate of course this is the same focus grouping that told the Tories that victory lay in opening more grammars. It is treacherous territory.
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Sep 23, 2019 17:10
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student politics gets you me, who was vaguely interested in movements on campus Student Politics gets you the English guy standing as a Lib Dem candidate on the southside of Glasgow because he was studying politics at Glasgow.
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Sep 23, 2019 17:10
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ronya posted:a great many people have a prickly emotional attachment to their schools and declaring war on them, any of them, is difficult Or just...do what's right and don't loving hire focus groups because it's not 1998 any more.
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Sep 23, 2019 17:11
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OwlFancier posted:I was wondering a bit about that too, I understood bisexual to be what is apparently now pansexuality? As I understand it, the historical origins of the term in the 70s and 80s were explicitly inclusive of non-binary people, and specifically icnlusive of trans people as the gender they are rather than as a separate category. More recent discourse has removed the former element (i.e. making bisexuality about specifically men and women) and/or done the very TERF-y thing of making a specific point about attraction to trans people, neither of which is reflected in the original definition. I've also seen distinctions between pansexuality and bisexuality which are about body versus soul (attracted to the gender/attracted to the person, or similar). I think the best expression I've seen of my opinion is that pansexual, bisexual, polysexual, and various other forms of 'attracted to anyone' sexualities all have broadly the same meaning, but the distinctions are important to people, so they're valid and acceptable. I go with bisexual on this basis simply because it's a more generally understood term. I've only been out for a very short time but I've been doing a lot of learning over the past few years.
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Sep 23, 2019 17:11
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The Libearian posted:The guy who claimed opposing slum lords was exactly like being a rapist also tried the "apart from this one issue I agree with most of you on most issues" gambit, you do have to wonder when it's the thing where people genuinely believe it because they haven't really thought through what left wing beliefs actually are beyond being in opposition to open right wingers who they view as uncouth and when it's the smooth brained right winger trick that all the tedious fash youtubers try where they claim to be "on the left" You can agree with all that and still have fundamentally anti-left thoughts about property and access to services. OwlFancier posted:I was wondering a bit about that too, I understood bisexual to be what is apparently now pansexuality? So there, by straight society forcing a binary and thus creating the 'gay scene' as reaction, there's a third category of people who are both sides of that binary, experiencing relationships in both the 'straight' group and the 'gay' group, even though the binary is just a social construct. Then trans theory started getting taken a lot more seriously and people rejected gender binary as well as sexuality binary and some said that bi wasn't descriptive enough to cover that according to some, so pansexual exists to be trans/cis and NB inclusive. Then some other people said that bi works fine on a false binary like gay/straight so why can't it work on a false binary like male/female masc/femme too?
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Sep 23, 2019 17:12
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mehall posted:student politics gets you me, who was vaguely interested in movements on campus I went to uni with one of the guys who stood for UKIP in Edinburgh lol he was a dumb rear end in a top hat
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Sep 23, 2019 17:12
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Can't wait to see how the press tries to spin this https://twitter.com/Rachael_Swindon/status/1176116318820610048 I think it'll play out well for Corbyn though if they have the guts to show it on TV.
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Sep 23, 2019 17:15
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forkboy84 posted:Or just...do what's right and don't loving hire focus groups because it's not 1998 any more. the Corbyn machine is intensely focus grouping to hell and back, you may be sure of it it's not that focus groups tell you the truth about what people will support, necessarily, but rather that any contact at all with reality in politics is a rare and precious thing. It is just too easy to be trapped in a bubble of groupthink
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Sep 23, 2019 17:15
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If only we could have the sensible triangulation of t h e p o l i t i c a l c e n t r e
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Sep 23, 2019 17:17
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i've been waiting here since ten o'clock.
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Sep 23, 2019 17:19
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thespaceinvader posted:FWIW I have actually only ever personally met one person who went to Eton Same (well after uni anyway) but he is Extremely Lib Dem (and knows TinTower oddly enough)
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Sep 23, 2019 17:21
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thespaceinvader posted:As I understand it, the historical origins of the term in the 70s and 80s were explicitly inclusive of non-binary people, and specifically icnlusive of trans people as the gender they are rather than as a separate category. More recent discourse has removed the former element (i.e. making bisexuality about specifically men and women) and/or done the very TERF-y thing of making a specific point about attraction to trans people, neither of which is reflected in the original definition. Guavanaut posted:My understanding is that originally bi meant attracted to both men and women when society, including gay culture, only recognized the binary. You see it even in Radical Gay Lib texts that don't approve of the sexuality binary, like a common Radical take on "why are some people gay?" rejects appeals to nature or genetics or what have you and goes for "because everyone used to be all over the scale, then the straights came along and ruined it by saying everyone had to be straight or suffer, so of course in Marxist theory that creates a reaction and some people will say 'gently caress that' and identify as gay and group together for protection from the straights." I think I might use pan more often then cos it's probably more accurate, given I do generally feel more comfortable around more femme presenting people but I don't particularly care about the technicalities.
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Sep 23, 2019 17:21
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Verizian posted:Can't wait to see how the press tries to spin this https://twitter.com/Rachael_Swindon/status/1176116318820610048 CRAZY CORBYN LOSES IT, DECLARES FATWA ON MEDIA
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Sep 23, 2019 17:22
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e: ^ or thatVerizian posted:Can't wait to see how the press tries to spin this https://twitter.com/Rachael_Swindon/status/1176116318820610048 lol it's gonna be "Corbyn makes scathing attack on honest journos no we won't show you the video or tell you what he actually said"
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Sep 23, 2019 17:23
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thespaceinvader posted:I've only been out for a very short time but I've been doing a lot of learning over the past few years. Welcome to the club, friend! We have glitter 
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Sep 23, 2019 17:26
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Rarity posted:Welcome to the club, friend! We have glitter I hope it's biodegradable glitter
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Sep 23, 2019 17:27
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it has to be said that the private school motion completely pushed the Ofsted pledge out of view, which is... weird, as policy pushes go. It is possible that the shad cab did not anticipate the motion suddenly looming out of the fog, or the left hand (heh) was simply not talking to the right
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Sep 23, 2019 17:28
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Went to a state run primary, did the living hand to mouth thing when my mum and dad split up and mum was living in a tiny bedsit in Acton, and eventually attended a private secondary in Hammersmith that my mum and stepdad spent most of their non-rent income on. I loathed secondary school with every fibre of my being, and spent every lunchtime in the library, reading; this helped come university entrance time but was a loving awful way to live for seven years. University was SOAS, which at the time was so left wing it was almost round the other end of the horseshoe (IIRC we had an actively pro-Al-Qaeda student union during 9/11), and I ended up making a career in China among people who neither knew nor cared what some little country in NW Europe thought was a prestigious school. Weirdly I may come back to the UK working for a Chinese company, which if he’s still alive might amuse my history teacher (who used to mock me in class for studying Chinese and suggested I might come back in a gunboat to shell the Houses of Parliament so we would all have to buy opioids). Honestly wouldn’t ever put anyone through what I went through - my kids attend a state school in Hong Kong, largely because their mother was state educated in Malaysia and did fine. They’re doing great. In general I support abolishing private schools. However, what sucked about the state schools was not handling bright or difficult kids well. I was initially diagnosed with learning difficulties because I didn’t concentrate in class and the wider reading I did off-curriculum wasn’t something my teachers were interested in; it wasn’t until I went to secondary that it turned out I was in the top 1-2% academically when I wasn’t deadly bored all the time. The state schools, in my area at least, were not only not set up to recognise that, I remember teachers actively discouraging reading ahead or around the topic. So from a practical perspective, I’d like to see some more streaming or another way for nonstandard kids to be nurtured to their potential in some future state-only future. Maybe competitive exams like China, if you can (a) keep them clean; and (b) make sure that kids who aren’t academic still have good life outcomes.
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Sep 23, 2019 17:30
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Rarity posted:Welcome to the club, friend! We have glitter I already got the haircut and leather (well, pleather, the actual leather on I found in the charity shop has very big shoulders) jacket, I'm nothing if not a walking stereotype.
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Sep 23, 2019 17:31
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I went to an English private school in Kenya because I'm white... Does that make me a bad person?
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Sep 23, 2019 17:32
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OwlFancier posted:I think I might use pan more often then cos it's probably more accurate, given I do generally feel more comfortable around more femme presenting people but I don't particularly care about the technicalities. It's a bit longer and phrased negatively, but by excluding yourself from two defined groups you're not excluding anyone else. I also think that bi (as in attracted to genders like mine and genders different from mine) and pan and all the rest are fine as long as you're understood by the person you're communicating with and aren't being a big TERF. I'm not even sure how you could be bi (in any definition) and a TERF anyway, but I'm sure they've found some convoluted way to manage. Beefeater1980 posted:Weirdly I may come back to the UK working for a Chinese company, which if he’s still alive might amuse my history teacher (who used to mock me in class for studying Chinese and suggested I might come back in a gunboat to shell the Houses of Parliament so we would all have to buy opioids).
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Sep 23, 2019 17:34
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Beefeater1980 posted:Went to a state run primary, did the living hand to mouth thing when my mum and dad split up and mum was living in a tiny bedsit in Acton, and eventually attended a private secondary in Hammersmith that my mum and stepdad spent most of their non-rent income on. a key difference between state education in Hong Kong and Malaysia, and the UK, indeed being aggressive streaming (or lack thereof)... I don't know that you will find any support ITT for bringing the 11+ back
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Sep 23, 2019 17:35
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CyberPingu posted:I went to an English private school in Kenya because I'm white... Does that make me a bad person? You just admitted to being white so yes.
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Sep 23, 2019 17:37
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forkboy84 posted:You just admitted to being white so yes. Bugger
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Sep 23, 2019 17:37
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CyberPingu posted:Bugger That too.
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Sep 23, 2019 17:39
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quote:Delegates back NEC statement calling for party to postpone decision on who to campaign in referendum. two more to go e: motion 13 (the Remain one) has lost by show of hands, graun says. Ouch!
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Sep 23, 2019 17:42
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https://twitter.com/AP/status/1176000040931909632?s=20 Boris will get his election and Brexit.
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Sep 23, 2019 17:42
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Not sure that being the lapdog of the US oil industry is really an election winning formula against "how about we don't go and get killed for the americans again?"
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Sep 23, 2019 17:43
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ronya posted:a key difference between state education in Hong Kong and Malaysia, and the UK, indeed being aggressive streaming (or lack thereof)... I'm not sure that recognising different levels of ability and handling them appropriately == 11+ by default though.
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Sep 23, 2019 17:44
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Nonsense posted:https://twitter.com/AP/status/1176000040931909632?s=20
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Sep 23, 2019 17:45
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Apropos of nothing, I like this GIF, pronounced GIF btw:
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Sep 23, 2019 17:45
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