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If you post that on the magpie games forum, they will definitely see it because nobody uses those forums :-). Better than getting lost in the 300 existing comments on the kickstarter.
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Sep 23, 2019 07:56
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LatwPIAT posted:I'm disappointed every time I learn it's not a game about playing Root. That would be way more up my alley. This makes me wonder what games would be good for that style of cyberpunk.
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Sep 23, 2019 15:36
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Echophonic posted:That would be way more up my alley. This makes me wonder what games would be good for that style of cyberpunk. I've toyed around with using Night's Black Agents for it. Replace the vampires with evil AIs or even a mundane high-tech conspiracy and it covers the spy-thriller tone, investigation of a deep conspiracy, and cast of retired secret agents.
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Sep 23, 2019 15:48
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FirstAidKite posted:I don't know what about this is getting to me but there's something about this kickstarter that just feels incredibly off to me. The problem with this kickstarter is that no one calls their friends ”Cat” (except beatniks?) as a slang term so the joke doesn’t work.
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Sep 23, 2019 15:52
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FirstAidKite posted:I don't know what about this is getting to me but there's something about this kickstarter that just feels incredibly off to me. Can I get a copy of this that’s signed by the full cast of game of thrones?
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Sep 23, 2019 17:55
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Evil Hat has a pretty good stance on Kickstarter and the union. They're following union guidance, but they will also withdraw from Kickstarter immediately, regardless of currently funding campaigns, if the employees of Kickstarter majority vote for union but are blocked.
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Sep 23, 2019 22:32
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Evil Hat/John Harper (along with Sean Nittner this time) are KSing Agon 2e: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/evilhat/agon
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Sep 25, 2019 18:24
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Lemon-Lime posted:Evil Hat/John Harper (along with Sean Nittner this time) are KSing Agon 2e: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/evilhat/agon I literally bought 1e Agon like three months ago. That's a shocking coincidence. I was looking for Roman TRPGs.
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Sep 26, 2019 01:49
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I bought Agon 1E because I love the idea of "competitive co-op" and I was excited to try it. Unfortunately scheduling issues meant I didn't get to play in that campaign, and this is literally the first time I've even heard the game mentioned since.
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Sep 26, 2019 02:58
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Agom 2E feels very much like a Cortex game with a John Harper patina. Not a criticism. I backed.
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Sep 28, 2019 20:25
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https://twitter.com/NathanJRobinson/status/1177668530864607232 https://twitter.com/NathanJRobinson/status/1178005656865034240 The boycott is on
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Sep 29, 2019 11:58
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I haven't backed anything in years, and was thinking about doing the Northstar and Reaper ones dropping this month, whoops! Guess not?
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Sep 29, 2019 13:09
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Team_q posted:I haven't backed anything in years, and was thinking about doing the Northstar and Reaper ones dropping this month, whoops! Guess not? I thought Northstar basically does fake Kickstarters as a pre-order thing on their own website?
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Sep 29, 2019 13:43
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NTRabbit posted:The boycott is on No? The union hasn’t called for it yet. As an indie publisher making games about community and resistance to structural oppression I’m very sympathetic to labour organising, and I’ll boycott the moment they say to. But boycotting before that point removes tools from their negotiator’s arsenal - and hurts the project creators far more than it hurts kickstarter.
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Sep 29, 2019 13:48
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Flavivirus posted:No? The union hasn’t called for it yet.
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Sep 29, 2019 14:18
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I get what you are all saying, but this and being robbed has made me never want to back a kickstarter again. I think I am going to just drop crowdfunding for life.
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Sep 29, 2019 14:56
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Warthur posted:Same as a backer rather than a creator. You can't say "we support the union" and then outright disregard the actual advice the union gives out, not least because "I think Kickstarter workers should have a union, but I also think I know better than the union and will disregard what they say if it lets me jump on my soapbox and look like a big drat hero" is kind of a lovely take. The scare mongering and "Boycott now!" stuff is already having an impact, at least on me. I just lost 5 backers and when asked, two said it was because they believed a boycott had been called for. You can obviously do whatever you want and associate with whoever you like but boycotts have specific usages in labour organizing and premature ones can and do get used against the union. I'm ready to drop the project the minute one is called for but it does feel like what you're saying is exactly what's happening with some people.
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Sep 29, 2019 15:30
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Not a union organiser myself but I can see how a premature boycott can, at the very least, even if it isn't held against the union, reduce its leverage. As a union you ideally want a large a block of people possible behind you willing to boycott, if that's what you intend to call for, and everyone who kicks off early is someone whose absence won't register when the actual boycott is called. EDIT: But like I say, I am not a union organiser. Nor do I work at Kickstarter. Which means that it'd be massively presumptuous of me to second-guess the union on this point, as though I've somehow spotted something that they, the people on the ground who think about this constantly, have somehow missed.
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Sep 29, 2019 15:34
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Warthur posted:Not a union organiser myself but I can see how a premature boycott can, at the very least, even if it isn't held against the union, reduce its leverage. As a union you ideally want a large a block of people possible behind you willing to boycott, if that's what you intend to call for, and everyone who kicks off early is someone whose absence won't register when the actual boycott is called. When we tried to unionize at my last store management would use the very threat of a boycott against us - the idea that people would hear we were unionizing, stop shopping at the store and never come back, impacting the bottom line and making it so people had to be fired was the subject of a 2 hour long "discussion" really early on. Premature boycotts by people who aren't listening to the union get turned really easy into a guilt trip that management can use to sway a vote. I think I've even seen Taylor Moore agree w/ this on one of Lucian Khan's twitter threads about it. When the union calls for a boycott I'll be right there with them but not until then.
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Sep 29, 2019 15:41
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Don't boycott until the union asks!!
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Sep 29, 2019 15:43
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Grant Howitt gives a good take here and notes that he has specifically reached out to the union. Is it just me or does it feel a bit off that the Current Affairs article doesn't seem to mention reaching out to the union for their comments at all? It's literally just an account of the author's exchange with Kickstarter, posted without apparently keeping the union in the loop at all.
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Sep 29, 2019 16:04
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Neil Gaiman's stuck his clueless oar in. https://twitter.com/neilhimself/status/1178046366137892865 Edit: Oh, that Current Affairs thing is 100% author pique.
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Sep 29, 2019 17:05
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Bieeanshee posted:Edit: Oh, that Current Affairs thing is 100% author pique.
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Sep 29, 2019 17:51
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Bieeanshee posted:Neil Gaiman's stuck his clueless oar in. https://twitter.com/neilhimself/status/1178046366137892865 I wonder if Amanda Palmer still pays her backup band in exposure and experience.
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Sep 29, 2019 18:02
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Team_q posted:I haven't backed anything in years, and was thinking about doing the Northstar and Reaper ones dropping this month, whoops! Guess not? Northstar don't use Kickstarter, they use their own pre-order system they call 'Nickstarter'.
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Sep 29, 2019 21:01
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Zark the Damned posted:Northstar don't use Kickstarter, they use their own pre-order system they call 'Nickstarter'. I was confused, they were talking about preordering for the new book in anticipation of a Kickstarter. I'm pretty excited about the coop frostgrave after how much Rangers of the Shadow Deep I've been playing.
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Sep 29, 2019 21:11
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Warthur posted:Grant Howitt gives a good take here and notes that he has specifically reached out to the union. The Kickstarter United Twitter account retweeted the Current Affairs tweet. The assumption that the Current Affairs article is at odds with the union's stance is a bit weird.
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Sep 29, 2019 22:07
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Nemesis Of Moles posted:The scare mongering and "Boycott now!" stuff is already having an impact, at least on me. I just lost 5 backers and when asked, two said it was because they believed a boycott had been called for. I’m sorry that the decision of Kickstarter’s management team is causing you to lose campaign support. That’s really the crux of the issue here. If you look at the Current Affairs article linked above, they are pulling their current projects because Kickstart is actively anti-union, and they won’t allow any portion of anyone’s money pledged in support of their projects to go to an anti-union company. Philosophically, although the union hasn’t called for a boycott, I’m currently not giving any money to Kickstarter projects for the exact same reasons. Does that ultimately hurt creators who are trying to find their projects? Absolutely. But who’s fault is that? It’s squarely on management due to their anti-union activity. If they weren’t coming out clearly communicating that they will not stay neutral on union building activities (they’re against them), or that they won’t stay silent in their beliefs that unions are inherently bad for workers (they’re not, and that’s an anti-union stance), this problem would go away. It is the actions of management that are currently hurting creators. In union organizing, the group who frames best is the one that usually wins. “The union hasn’t called for a boycott and boycotting now hurts creators” is buying into management’s frame. A better frame would be to communicate to Kickstarter management that THEIR ACTIONS in regards to union activities and formation are what is hurting projects and creators, because it’s actively driving people away from using the platform - as the example you gave shows. You as a creator can still run projects if you want, but you should be communicating your frustration in how managements actions are hurting your campaign TO MANAGEMENT. It might also be worth telling them this kind of action on their part makes you question whether or not you want to use their platform in the future, both from a practical and philosophical perspective. Meanwhile, I am going to continue to vote with my wallet and tell everyone I know that they should be doing the same, because I can’t philosophically support a strongly anti-union company. There’s no picket line called for yet, but I also don’t eat at Chik-Fil-A for the same reasons. It sends a strong message.
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Sep 29, 2019 22:14
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Can anyone show me a statement from the Union actually calling for a boycott?
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Sep 29, 2019 22:18
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Cthulhu Dreams posted:Can anyone show me a statement from the Union actually calling for a boycott? They literally haven't yet. That's kinda the whole point.
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Sep 29, 2019 22:20
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Cthulhu Dreams posted:Can anyone show me a statement from the Union actually calling for a boycott? No, because there isn't one. e: indeed, their last communication on the subject was literally the opposite, albeit happened before the latest events.
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Sep 29, 2019 22:20
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Mors Rattus posted:No, because there isn't one. Yeah I'm just extremely puzzled, that current Affairs article is not helpful
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Sep 29, 2019 22:34
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Also, maybe I’m cynical, but isn’t ‘this company hates the idea of its employees unionising and will do everything it can to stop it’ the default assumption? Yes, of course Kickstarter management is hostile to union organising - we knew that when they fired people for union organising, and the statement from the union not to boycott was sent out after that. I just don’t see what has changed now?
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Sep 29, 2019 22:37
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There’s been a week (at least) of public discussion and pressure on them to stop doing that, and their response was “nah, we still gonna be lovely about unions.” That is enough of a lack of change for a lot of people to stop using the platform more sincerely rather than giving them the benefit of the doubt.
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Sep 29, 2019 22:42
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Thanlis posted:The Kickstarter United Twitter account retweeted the Current Affairs tweet. The assumption that the Current Affairs article is at odds with the union's stance is a bit weird. The fact that the Current Affairs article didn't accidentally tread on the union's feet doesn't change the fact that it doesn't include any input from the union at all. It is weird to put out an article like that without asking for the union's take on it.
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Sep 29, 2019 23:02
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Quidthulhu posted:There’s been a week (at least) of public discussion and pressure on them to stop doing that, and their response was “nah, we still gonna be lovely about unions.” That is enough of a lack of change for a lot of people to stop using the platform more sincerely rather than giving them the benefit of the doubt. On the other hand, if the union's position is "Don't let this situation change how you use Kickstarter for the time being" and you go "Nah, I am going to do precisely that thing", it's a bit much to say that you're doing it to support pro-union principles when the absolute, baseline, fundamental axiomatic principle of collective bargaining is that the union decides when to strike or boycott, not random individuals kicking off by themselves. Claiming to be supporting the union when defying their own advice is the peak of performative wokeness.
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Sep 29, 2019 23:05
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Warthur posted:The fact that the Current Affairs article didn't accidentally tread on the union's feet doesn't change the fact that it doesn't include any input from the union at all. It is weird to put out an article like that without asking for the union's take on it. In fact, it's so weird that the *union retweeted it*. This isn't that complicated. The union is not calling for a boycott and I don't think anyone should. The union has made it crystal clear that they think it's OK for creators to keep posting projects. The union has made no statement about what backers should or should not do, although I think it's reasonable to assume that they think it's fine for backers to keep backing. At the same time, the union is clearly OK with creators making their own decisions about whether or not to launch projects. I think that makes a ton of sense. I personally don't think less of any creator who maintains or starts new Kickstarter projects. So: NTRabbit was wrong. The boycott is not on. Simultaneously, condemning people for making individual decisions is equally bullshit. Edit: Warthur posted:On the other hand, if the union's position is "Don't let this situation change how you use Kickstarter for the time being" and you go "Nah, I am going to do precisely that thing", it's a bit much to say that you're doing it to support pro-union principles when the absolute, baseline, fundamental axiomatic principle of collective bargaining is that the union decides when to strike or boycott, not random individuals kicking off by themselves. That's not the union's position. The union's position is, direct quote, "We are not calling on creators who rely on Kickstarter to abandon live or planned projects."
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Sep 29, 2019 23:11
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Warthur posted:On the other hand, if the union's position is "Don't let this situation change how you use Kickstarter for the time being" and you go "Nah, I am going to do precisely that thing", it's a bit much to say that you're doing it to support pro-union principles when the absolute, baseline, fundamental axiomatic principle of collective bargaining is that the union decides when to strike or boycott, not random individuals kicking off by themselves. Not when the other option is actively buying into a frame being pushed by management, that of “if I don’t use Kickstarter normally, it will hurt creators.” That’s literally managements argument as to why the union shouldn’t exist and why they are actively pushing against organization efforts. My normal stance with engaging with companies is “I don’t support companies that are anti-union.” But thanks for deciding I’m faking it for wokeness points, I guess? It feels like you didn’t read the several paragraphs I posted above as to why this is my position.
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Sep 29, 2019 23:11
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Maybe its because there are creators here who will be negatively affected by people not buying into kickstarter as a platform, but going "oh, this business does poo poo I don't like so I won't buy from it" is a pretty normal thing to, regardless of a union requested boycott. I mean, I only buy from PDQ instead of Chik Filla because the later is anti-LGBT+.
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Sep 29, 2019 23:16
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Covok posted:Maybe its because there are creators here who will be negatively affected by people not buying into kickstarter as a platform, but going "oh, this business does poo poo I don't like so I won't buy from it" is a pretty normal thing to, regardless of a union requested boycott. I mean, I only buy from PDQ instead of Chik Filla because the later is anti-LGBT+. I've said in threads before that this is totally fine and I even encourage it. Make your choices with who you wanna work with, absolutely. But until the union calls for it it's important for people like Gaimen to understand loudly announcing "I AM DONE WITH KICKSTARTER" is gonna have a collective effect given his massive following. Creators already have people calling them scabs and management sympathizers and poo poo. It's silly. Just because the union retweeted an article doesn't mean they fully endorse, agree with or 100% want that article to communicate their current strategy. They want to build buzz and have a narrative about union support and the article does a good job of it - but an actual call for a boycott will come clearly and overtly, directly from the union or one or their representatives, not from retweeting an article that kinda sorta calls for one. Edit: I'm also not really fussed at the idea of canceling the project as part of a collective action, it's the correct thing to do. I'm a little annoyed at someone like Neil Gaimen or w/e taking the effort into their own hands and impacting smaller creators so they can feel like theyre helping without paying attention to the actual people on the ground. Nemesis Of Moles fucked around with this message at 23:59 on Sep 29, 2019 |
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Sep 29, 2019 23:56
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