USPOL Fall: Biden the hand that feeds you

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Kavros: May 18, 2011; sleep sleep sleep
fly fly post post
sleep sleep sleep

We have an update on the transcript release: apparently the call audio is being audited by the IRS for the indefinite future

# ? Sep 25, 2019 01:42

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# ? Jun 5, 2024 08:02

Otteration: Jan 4, 2014; I CAN'T SAY PRESIDENT DONALD JOHN TRUMP'S NAME BECAUSE HE'S LIKE THAT GUY FROM HARRY POTTER AND I'M AFRAID I'LL SUMMON HIM. DONALD JOHN TRUMP. YOUR FAVORITE PRESIDENT.
OUR 47TH PRESIDENT AFTER THE ONE WHO SHOWERS WITH HIS DAUGHTER DIES; Grimey Drawer

The Glumslinger posted:

As I understand it, until they actually vote to impeach and send it to the Senate for a trial, they can continue to add more articles of impeachment. ~~Also, each article is passed seperately, when Nixon was impeached there were 5 articles of impeachment, and Articles 4 and 5 (secret bombing of Cambodia and tax evasion) didn't pass the House~~ Misread my source, this part was in committee

Yeah, the House should be able to add charges during the course of their investigations as they dig up more dirt, before sending it to the Senate for trial. Pretty sure they have to stop investigations and produce a final case to the Senate for consideration though.

# ? Sep 25, 2019 01:43

Tibalt: May 14, 2017; What, drawn, and talk of peace! I hate the word, As I hate hell, all Montagues, and thee

It's kind of hard to put the tooth paste back in the tube, even if the Ukrainian phone call turns out to be innocent.

# ? Sep 25, 2019 01:45

Ate My Balls Redux: Aug 2, 2018; by LITERALLY AN ADMIN

Mummy Xzibit posted:

That tweet says the White House will release the entire complaint, not just a transcript.

I think anyone who believes this is true hasn't been paying attention

# ? Sep 25, 2019 01:45

The Glumslinger: Sep 24, 2008; Coach Nagy, you want me to throw to WHAT side of the field?; Hair Elf

https://twitter.com/mattdpearce/status/1176658774372712450

quote:

Trump�s closest advisers, including acting White House chief of staff Mick Mulvaney, who was ordered by Trump to suspend the aid to Ukraine, are also increasingly targets of internal finger-pointing. Mulvaney has agitated for foreign aid to be cut universally but has also stayed away from meetings with Giuliani and Trump, officials said. But the person who appears to have been more directly involved at nearly every stage of the entanglement with Ukraine is Giuliani.

�Rudy � he did all of this,� one U.S. official said. �This s---show that we�re in � it�s him injecting himself into the process.�

quote:

Several officials traced their initial concerns about the path of U.S.-Ukrainian relations to news reports and interviews granted by Giuliani in which he began to espouse views and concerns that did not appear connected to U.S. priorities or policy.

The former New York mayor appears to have seen Zelensky, a political neophyte elected president of Ukraine in April and sworn in in May, as a potential ally on two political fronts: punishing those Giuliani suspected of playing a role in exposing the Ukraine-related corruption of former Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort, and delivering political ammunition against Biden.

After the conclusion of the Mueller investigation, Giuliani turned his attention to Ukraine, officials said, and soon began pushing for personnel changes at the embassy while seeking meetings with Zelensky subordinates. He also had his own emissaries in Ukraine who were meeting with officials, setting up meetings for him and sending back information that he could circulate in the United States.

The U.S. ambassador to Ukraine, Marie Yovanovitch, became a primary Giuliani target.

Yovanovitch, a longtime State Department Foreign Service officer, arrived in Ukraine as ambassador at the end of the Obama administration, more than two years after an uprising centered on Kiev�s Independence Square ousted the Russian-leaning government.

Though she was widely respected in the national security community for her efforts to prod Ukraine to take on corruption, Giuliani targeted Yovanovitch with wild accusations including that she played a secret role in exposing Manafort and was part of a conspiracy orchestrated by the liberal financier George Soros.

�She should be part of the investigation as part of the collusion,� Giuliani said in a recent interview with The Washington Post, adding that �she is now working for Soros.� Yovanovitch is still employed by the State Department and is a fellow at Georgetown University. She declined to comment.

Reading between the lines, seems like Bolton is bringing out the knives for Guiliani

The Glumslinger fucked around with this message at 01:52 on Sep 25, 2019

# ? Sep 25, 2019 01:47

AhhYes: Dec 1, 2004; * Click *; College Slice

The DNI uses a lot of words to say absolutely nothing:

https://twitter.com/shaneharris/status/1176647188916686849?s=19

# ? Sep 25, 2019 01:47

Kavros: May 18, 2011; sleep sleep sleep
fly fly post post
sleep sleep sleep

Trump swore an oath, too. It says nothing to us.

# ? Sep 25, 2019 01:50

Gyges: Aug 4, 2004; NOW NO ONE
RECOGNIZE HULK

Shimrra Jamaane posted:

Which has me worried and hoping that Trump is just too stupid to realize how bad it makes him look.

There's so many layers of dumb it's hard to tell which is the actually prevailing one. However, most likely he thinks that this whole thing is just about the whistle blower thing. They forced his hand, so here's your dumb report. History has been that nothing will happen to him, so he doesn't actually think anything will happen. He thinks that now this whole thing will go away, or at the very least result in just another

The thing is that, while this particular thing is what finally caused the cowards in the leadership to pull the trigger, it's hardly the only or even the most egregious impeachable thing Donny's done. Now that the inquiry is on, the best possible outcome is that Pelosi slow walks this thing past the point of reason and it becomes month 11 of Impeachment. Which is actually slightly less likely than the House throwing together a list of crimes on a mustard stained napkin and voting to impeach in 5 minutes.

# ? Sep 25, 2019 01:51

Otteration: Jan 4, 2014; I CAN'T SAY PRESIDENT DONALD JOHN TRUMP'S NAME BECAUSE HE'S LIKE THAT GUY FROM HARRY POTTER AND I'M AFRAID I'LL SUMMON HIM. DONALD JOHN TRUMP. YOUR FAVORITE PRESIDENT.
OUR 47TH PRESIDENT AFTER THE ONE WHO SHOWERS WITH HIS DAUGHTER DIES; Grimey Drawer

Tibalt posted:

It's kind of hard to put the tooth paste back in the tube, even if the Ukrainian phone call turns out to be innocent.

The ONLY reason (of course) that the administration proposing to releasing a "transcript" is that they think that will stop the whole process and crimes can continue.

"Hey Nancy let's make a deal," is only one of infinite reasons why the whole process enormously should not.

# ? Sep 25, 2019 01:51

Edmund Lava: Sep 8, 2004; Hey, I'm from Brooklyn. I'm going to call myself Mr. Friendly.

Arglebargle III posted:

So do you think the House Dems will do a take-backsies after they get the whistleblower complaint?

Doubtful. They�re too invested now and too many public statements made.

# ? Sep 25, 2019 01:52

Mr Interweb: Aug 25, 2004

well looks like i got egg on my face. pelosi is going through with it afterall

# ? Sep 25, 2019 01:52

evilweasel: Aug 24, 2002

AhhYes posted:

The DNI uses a lot of words to say absolutely nothing:

https://twitter.com/shaneharris/status/1176647188916686849?s=19

he's saying he's not going down with the ship

# ? Sep 25, 2019 01:53

Shimrra Jamaane: Aug 10, 2007; Obscure to all except those well-versed in Yuuzhan Vong lore.

The Glumslinger posted:

https://twitter.com/mattdpearce/status/1176658774372712450

Reading between the lines, seems like Bolton is bringing out the knives for Guiliani

This seems significant and damning.

# ? Sep 25, 2019 01:53

evilweasel: Aug 24, 2002

ahahahaha man someone got really loving mad at getting unmasked as a rudy guliani fan

# ? Sep 25, 2019 01:53

The Glumslinger: Sep 24, 2008; Coach Nagy, you want me to throw to WHAT side of the field?; Hair Elf

Shimrra Jamaane posted:

This seems significant and damning.

quote:

The perception of a parallel, hidden agenda intensified in the summer as officials at the NSC, Pentagon and State Department began reacting to rumors that hundreds of millions of dollars of military and intelligence aid to Ukraine was being mysteriously impeded.

�There were never any orders given, any formal guidance from the White House to any of the agencies,� said a U.S. official familiar with the matter. �And the NSC was scratching their heads: How is this possible?�

NSC officials, including Tim Morrison, who had replaced Fiona Hill as the senior director for European and Russian affairs, began organizing meetings to try to understand these hidden forces affecting Ukraine policy, officials said.

But even then, clear answers proved elusive. Officials were told that the money was being blocked by the Office of Management and Budget, without any accompanying explanation.

�It was bizarre,� the official said.

A former official familiar with the meetings said participants began to file out raising troubling questions about what was driving the White House to withhold the aid as well as a meeting with Trump that had been all but promised to Zelensky.

Although the question of a linkage or leverage never came up in the formal NSC discussions, participants began to believe that Trump was �withholding the aid until [Ukraine] gave him something on Biden or Manafort.�

quote:

On July 24, former special counsel Robert S. Mueller III testified before Congress on the outcome of the Russia investigation, a probe that had threatened Trump for much of his presidency and was focused on whether he had conspired with Moscow to influence the U.S. election.

The next day, Trump spoke with Zelensky on a call, and the vague misgivings that had risen over the preceding five months hardened into alarm. Among those who listened in on the call or were in position to see a transcript, the president�s persistence with Zelensky on the corruption probe marked the crossing of a perilous threshold.

The Glumslinger fucked around with this message at 01:58 on Sep 25, 2019

# ? Sep 25, 2019 01:54

ThanosWasRight: May 12, 2019; by LITERALLY AN ADMIN

The Glumslinger posted:

https://twitter.com/mattdpearce/status/1176658774372712450

Reading between the lines, seems like Bolton is bringing out the knives for Guiliani

Rudy was also instrumental in bringing down Hillary for Trump in 2016.

Remember his bragging in front of live television about bombshells fed to him by members of the FBI New York office days before Comey's announcement?

Rudy needs to go to jail for a long, long, long time.

ThanosWasRight fucked around with this message at 01:59 on Sep 25, 2019

# ? Sep 25, 2019 01:54

Shimrra Jamaane: Aug 10, 2007; Obscure to all except those well-versed in Yuuzhan Vong lore.

What if John Bolton is the whistle blower

# ? Sep 25, 2019 01:55

The Glumslinger: Sep 24, 2008; Coach Nagy, you want me to throw to WHAT side of the field?; Hair Elf

https://twitter.com/silviakillings/status/1176659293803819010

Shimrra Jamaane posted:

What if John Bolton is the whistle blower

We know the whistleblower is still a member of the government

# ? Sep 25, 2019 01:55

Tatsuta Age: Apr 21, 2005; so good at being in trouble

The Glumslinger posted:

[quote]The perception of a parallel, hidden agenda intensified in the summer as officials at the NSC, Pentagon and State Department began reacting to rumors that hundreds of millions of dollars of military and intelligence aid to Ukraine was being mysteriously impeded.

“There were never any orders given, any formal guidance from the White House to any of the agencies,” said a U.S. official familiar with the matter. “And the NSC was scratching their heads: How is this possible?”

NSC officials, including Tim Morrison, who had replaced Fiona Hill as the senior director for European and Russian affairs, began organizing meetings to try to understand these hidden forces affecting Ukraine policy, officials said.

But even then, clear answers proved elusive. Officials were told that the money was being blocked by the Office of Management and Budget, without any accompanying explanation.

“It was bizarre,” the official said.

A former official familiar with the meetings said participants began to file out raising troubling questions about what was driving the White House to withhold the aid as well as a meeting with Trump that had been all but promised to Zelensky.

Although the question of a linkage or leverage never came up in the formal NSC discussions, participants began to believe that Trump was “withholding the aid until [Ukraine] gave him something on Biden or Manafort.”

The next day, Trump spoke with Zelensky on a call, and the vague misgivings that had risen over the preceding five months hardened into alarm. Among those who listened in on the call or were in position to see a transcript, the president’s persistence with Zelensky on the corruption probe marked the crossing of a perilous threshold.[/quote]

part of me thinks nothing will happen

But the other parts can't wait to see this dumb fat bitch FRY

# ? Sep 25, 2019 01:56

evilweasel: Aug 24, 2002

The Glumslinger posted:

We know the whistleblower is still a member of the government

how so?

# ? Sep 25, 2019 01:56

ascii genitals: Aug 19, 2000

Pelosi still sucks but can we suspend the "this will be wet fart nothing matters" bullshit for a few days while this plays out? I hope to gently caress this is the dam breaking. Pos vibes only for my neg rear end in a top hat please, I wanna get real hype on the concept of Russia electing Trump, and then Ukraine getting him impeached and indicted.

# ? Sep 25, 2019 01:59

Arglebargle III: Feb 21, 2006

Mr Interweb posted:

well looks like i got egg on my face. pelosi is going through with it afterall

That's ok egg is nice.

# ? Sep 25, 2019 01:59

Majorian: Jul 1, 2009

Mr Interweb posted:

well looks like i got egg on my face. pelosi is going through with it afterall

Tbf, she did have to be dragged kicking and screaming in the most undignified manner possible. I honestly can't think of a way she could have dragged her feet more blatantly and obnoxiously.

# ? Sep 25, 2019 02:00

The Glumslinger: Sep 24, 2008; Coach Nagy, you want me to throw to WHAT side of the field?; Hair Elf

evilweasel posted:

how so?

I was fairly sure I had read it in several places, but I seem to be unable to find any of them

# ? Sep 25, 2019 02:01

evilweasel: Aug 24, 2002

The Glumslinger posted:

I was fairly sure I had read it in several places, but I seem to be unable to find any of them

well if you find them i'd be interested considering there's persistent rumors it was Coats or his fired deputy

i also suspect the name hasn't been widely shared enough or trump would have tweeted it out

# ? Sep 25, 2019 02:04

7c Nickel: Apr 27, 2008

Here's some red meat for the thread.

Let's say Pelosi's plan was holding off on supporting impeachment until the best possibly moment, under the assumption that Trump would inevitably stick his dick in a beehive. Now that his circus peanut is covered in stings, they can drag out the official inquiry for a few months and then dump the vote in the Senates lap shortly before the election. Was it actually a bad plan?

# ? Sep 25, 2019 02:04

John Wick of Dogs: Mar 4, 2017; A real hellraiser

Mr Interweb posted:

well looks like i got egg on my face. pelosi is going through with it afterall

Well you seem a bit confused but maybe... Well I've got you pegged

# ? Sep 25, 2019 02:04

Powered Descent: Jul 13, 2008; We haven't had that spirit here since 1969.

ascii genitals posted:

a few days while this plays out

Yes, that's the speed of government all right

# ? Sep 25, 2019 02:04

John Wick of Dogs: Mar 4, 2017; A real hellraiser

7c Nickel posted:

Here's some red meat for the thread.

Let's say Pelosi's plan was holding off on supporting impeachment until the best possibly moment, under the assumption that Trump would inevitably stick his dick in a beehive. Now that his circus peanut is covered in stings, they can drag out the official inquiry for a few months and then dump the vote in the Senates lap shortly before the election. Was it actually a bad plan?

She never had a plan and if she did it was bad

# ? Sep 25, 2019 02:05

evilweasel: Aug 24, 2002

7c Nickel posted:

Here's some red meat for the thread.

Let's say Pelosi's plan was holding off on supporting impeachment until the best possibly moment, under the assumption that Trump would inevitably stick his dick in a beehive. Now that his circus peanut is covered in stings, they can drag out the official inquiry for a few months and then dump the vote in the Senates lap shortly before the election. Was it actually a bad plan?

i mean if you assume the plan was a good plan, which is your starting assumption, then yes you reach the conclusion it is not a bad plan

but the answer is simple: what was out there before wasn't enough to get most of her caucus behind impeachment as a political matter and she did not believe that what was out there before was enough for impeachment as a political matter. this, however, was enough to change the calculus on both. there's not anything more to it.

# ? Sep 25, 2019 02:07

Ate My Balls Redux: Aug 2, 2018; by LITERALLY AN ADMIN

7c Nickel posted:

Here's some red meat for the thread.

Let's say Pelosi's plan was holding off on supporting impeachment until the best possibly moment, under the assumption that Trump would inevitably stick his dick in a beehive. Now that his circus peanut is covered in stings, they can drag out the official inquiry for a few months and then dump the vote in the Senates lap shortly before the election. Was it actually a bad plan?

Yeah because you can throw any 12D chess justification at it but impeachment was still morally correct months ago, kids in concentration camps have been suffering while she enacts her master plan, and people are supposed to do the right thing, not the thing that guarantees their desired result

# ? Sep 25, 2019 02:08

Zoph: Sep 12, 2005

7c Nickel posted:

Here's some red meat for the thread.

Let's say Pelosi's plan was holding off on supporting impeachment until the best possibly moment, under the assumption that Trump would inevitably stick his dick in a beehive. Now that his circus peanut is covered in stings, they can drag out the official inquiry for a few months and then dump the vote in the Senates lap shortly before the election. Was it actually a bad plan?

This was the self-impeachment all along.

# ? Sep 25, 2019 02:08

Arist: Feb 13, 2012; _{who, me?}

7c Nickel posted:

Here's some red meat for the thread.

Let's say Pelosi's plan was holding off on supporting impeachment until the best possibly moment, under the assumption that Trump would inevitably stick his dick in a beehive. Now that his circus peanut is covered in stings, they can drag out the official inquiry for a few months and then dump the vote in the Senates lap shortly before the election. Was it actually a bad plan?

Yes.

She could have moved forward with impeachment on day one of being made HML and been perfectly justified. Waiting as long as she did just further normalized Trump's lawlessness and raised the bar ever higher to a standard that as far as she knew would never be sufficiently met.

# ? Sep 25, 2019 02:09

cheetah7071: Oct 20, 2010; honk honk; College Slice

What's the point of technically being able to remove presidents if nobody bothers to try until their term is almost up anyways no matter how egregious the crimes

# ? Sep 25, 2019 02:09

7c Nickel: Apr 27, 2008

evilweasel posted:

i mean if you assume the plan was a good plan, which is your starting assumption, then no it is not a bad plan

I mean it would fall apart if Trump didn't do something stupid that would make his chances worse which was a real dang-- hahahah ahhaahahahahah.

cheetah7071 posted:

What's the point of technically being able to remove presidents if nobody bothers to try until their term is almost up anyways no matter how egregious the crimes

I guess the other assumption is that the Senate would never convict, a fairly solid one in my mind, so the only question was how to best use it to damage Trump and the other Republicans.

# ? Sep 25, 2019 02:09

Bugsy: Jul 15, 2004; I'm thumpin'. That's
why they call me
'Thumper'.; Slippery Tilde

https://twitter.com/JordanUhl/status/1176658973547814912

# ? Sep 25, 2019 02:10

Arist: Feb 13, 2012; _{who, me?}

She also could have expressed anything but pure antipathy towards the idea, which was incredibly demoralizing to the entire non-chud population.

# ? Sep 25, 2019 02:11

cheetah7071: Oct 20, 2010; honk honk; College Slice

tangentionally related question: is anybody aware of any historical times where political norms get horribly broken and then things later return to normal (and remain a democracy), without intervening violence?

# ? Sep 25, 2019 02:12

Herstory Begins Now: Aug 5, 2003; SOME REALLY TEDIOUS DUMB SHIT THAT SUCKS ASS TO READ ->>

evilweasel posted:

well if you find them i'd be interested considering there's persistent rumors it was Coats or his fired deputy

i also suspect the name hasn't been widely shared enough or trump would have tweeted it out

That would make shockingly little sense for either of them to be the whistleblower

# ? Sep 25, 2019 02:12

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# ? Jun 5, 2024 08:02

Mr. Fall Down Terror: Jan 24, 2018; by Fluffdaddy

cheetah7071 posted:

What's the point of technically being able to remove presidents if nobody bothers to try until their term is almost up anyways no matter how egregious the crimes

politicans are supposed to care about the good of the country more than party politics and their own careers. obviously this is a bad and unworkable assumption but that's how it is intended to go

even if trump doesn't get removed from office there is still some merit in him being damaged by impeachment stuff going into an election

# ? Sep 25, 2019 02:13

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