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luxury handset posted:politicans are supposed to care about the good of the country more than party politics and their own careers. obviously this is a bad and unworkable assumption but that's how it is intended to go I might have phrased it poorly, the question was sarcastic not earnest
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Sep 25, 2019 02:14
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Majorian posted:Tbf, she did have to be dragged kicking and screaming in the most undignified manner possible. I honestly can't think of a way she could have dragged her feet more blatantly and obnoxiously. I'm not a Pelosi fan. She should have loving given us more information. She should have loving bumbled less. She should have loving rallied the House troops more, as far as we know. But today was the only day I think we finally saw actual numbers for a large group of House Representatives coming out for actual impeachment support (on record / willing to be corrected on this). Lotta House member statements pro impeachment seemed to mention constituent calls?
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Sep 25, 2019 02:14
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cheetah7071 posted:tangentionally related question: is anybody aware of any historical times where political norms get horribly broken and then things later return to normal (and remain a democracy), without intervening violence? I mean, it kind of depends on what you mean by "norms," return to normal," and "intervening violence." But even though Andrew Johnson managed to permanently wreck Reconstruction, impeaching him at least allowed a small amount of healing in the country's political system to take place. Otteration posted:I'm not a Pelosi fan. She should have loving given us more information. She should have loving bumbled less. She should have loving rallied the House troops more, as far as we know. But today was the only day I think we finally saw actual numbers for a large group of House Representatives coming out for actual impeachment support (on record / willing to be corrected on this). Lotta House member statements pro impeachment seemed to mention constituent calls? Yeah, but part of the speaker's job is to be a leader, not a follower. It would have been nice if she had stopped being so worried about those "front line" Dems and started, you know. Leading. Majorian fucked around with this message at 02:18 on Sep 25, 2019 |
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Sep 25, 2019 02:15
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e: gah, quote is not edit
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Sep 25, 2019 02:17
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There's some stat that says countries generally go through a massive social upheaval every X years (I wish I could remember the exact figure) and all I remember is we've been overdue for at least a decade so
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Sep 25, 2019 02:18
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Herstory Begins Now posted:That would make shockingly little sense for either of them to be the whistleblower I agree but would like to know if it’s been ruled out.
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Sep 25, 2019 02:18
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cheetah7071 posted:What's the point of technically being able to remove presidents if nobody bothers to try until their term is almost up anyways no matter how egregious the crimes Given how the country is now, it's bold to assume that this isn't the third year of an eight year presidency. It's entirely possible he would win the election
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Sep 25, 2019 02:19
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CuddleCryptid posted:Given how the country is now, it's bold to assume that this isn't the third year of an eight year presidency. It's entirely possible he would win the election Don’t go to Vegas
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Sep 25, 2019 02:20
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:Don’t go to Vegas Pretty sure the nation has not stopped being racist as poo poo
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Sep 25, 2019 02:21
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Ho hum https://twitter.com/NoahShachtman/status/1176664735263182848
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Sep 25, 2019 02:21
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Otteration posted:I'm not a Pelosi fan. She should have loving given us more information. She should have loving bumbled less. She should have loving rallied the House troops more, as far as we know. But today was the only day I think we finally saw actual numbers for a large group of House Representatives coming out for actual impeachment support (on record / willing to be corrected on this). Lotta House member statements pro impeachment seemed to mention constituent calls? Another thing to consider on this point: the one thing Pelosi fans nearly unanimously call as a positive is her supposed ability to wrangle votes / control the house. So when she says she doesn't have the votes / Trump is self-impeaching / whatever the hell else, she's either bad at her job and unable to wrangle votes, or she didn't want to impeach in the first place (and therefore didn't try to get her people in line). Or alternatively, to put it in graphic form: 
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Sep 25, 2019 02:21
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luxury handset posted:politicans are supposed to care about the good of the country more than party politics and their own careers. obviously this is a bad and unworkable assumption but that's how it is intended to go Extremely true. We need to yell at them more than we have done so far. luxury handset posted:even if trump doesn't get removed from office there is still some merit in him being damaged by impeachment stuff going into an election Extremely yep. And the orange poo poo smear is off to his tower to cower. And that bothers him so much. And maybe the rest of this "administration" shall now come under review.
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Sep 25, 2019 02:21
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cheetah7071 posted:tangentionally related question: is anybody aware of any historical times where political norms get horribly broken and then things later return to normal (and remain a democracy), without intervening violence? Nixon's presidency ended amicably but also basically destroyed modern American politics to this day.
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Sep 25, 2019 02:23
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CuddleCryptid posted:Pretty sure I mean, the nation too. But the nation doesn't really matter in presidential elections.
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Sep 25, 2019 02:24
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While I would love to see Trump impeached in disgrace, how are we gonna get by Cocaine Mitch?
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Sep 25, 2019 02:25
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So it’s beyond clear that Trump was up to deep underhanded poo poo with Ukraine going back months and months. Was all this effort and groundwork really just to get oppo dirt on Joe Biden’s son? Surely there must be some larger thing at work here right? Am I crazy to have the sneaking suspicion that this is the tip of some iceberg that involves Trump compromising our entire intelligence operation?
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Sep 25, 2019 02:25
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skylined! posted:Please do not claim silverbacks for the Left. He's a libertarian at best. He’s not really ideological he’s just a sports better and data science nerd who turned to politics since the niche of people who actually try to guess what will happen versus make cool sound bytes is tiny there. Treating politics like sports is a disturbing thing in its own way but I like his analysis as it’s generally a good place to go for “what is actually most likely to happen.” Shimrra Jamaane posted:Don’t go to Vegas “Possible” is very much on the table.
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Sep 25, 2019 02:27
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TheGreatEvilKing posted:While I would love to see Trump impeached in disgrace, how are we gonna get by Cocaine Mitch? this is what i'm waiting for. mitch has to have a link to all of this, and if that's uncovered...my god, the fireworks. it will be better than seeing don go.
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Sep 25, 2019 02:27
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I presume that's the new ambassador? https://twitter.com/wiczipedia/status/1176659877348958214
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Sep 25, 2019 02:27
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:So it’s beyond clear that Trump was up to deep underhanded poo poo with Ukraine going back months and months. Was all this effort and groundwork really just to get oppo dirt on Joe Biden’s son? Surely there must be some larger thing at work here right? Am I crazy to have the sneaking suspicion that this is the tip of some iceberg that involves Trump compromising our entire intelligence operation? Well, the whistleblowing was supposedly about more than that, though it's unclear if it's about more than one call, or about more than one topic. What's also strange is that a lot of this story has been kinda public for quite a while... though not the blackmailsh aspect, of course.
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Sep 25, 2019 02:30
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https://twitter.com/rollcall/status/1176657572541206529
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Sep 25, 2019 02:31
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Arist posted:She also could have expressed anything but pure antipathy towards the idea, which was incredibly demoralizing to the entire non-chud population. When? Cite some specific examples. Because at worst she was noncommittal until more information was available. Even the "impeachment is off the table" was taken completely out of context. Majorian posted:
speaker of the house they speak for the majority. the majority just came around in the last 72 hours, really in the last twenty-four. this isn't hard it's just not what you want to hear. Ate My Balls Redux posted:Yeah because you can throw any 12D chess justification at it but impeachment was still morally correct months ago, kids in concentration camps have been suffering while she enacts her master plan, and people are supposed to do the right thing, not the thing that guarantees their desired result I know that reading the thread is not en Vogue currently, but something being morally wrong and legally wrong are very different. Those things are bad and wrong and as far as the law of the land goes, not illegal. The law of the land is apparently at the whim of the current administration. what we got in the last couple of weeks is something that we can explain almost in meme form to the Facebook news gathering dullards that vote in this country. I dislike Nancy Pelosi but for completely reality-based reasons. The endless armchair quarterbacking and goal post on a conveyor belt poo poo is obnoxious. The support for impeachment literally just came. Like in the last couple of days Like there's a loving counter for it. There is no one person that you can blame for all of this no matter how much you wish it is so. It turns out that the government is messy and complex. Things get that way when you try and govern based on a hundreds of years old document and a justice system that seems to be at the whims of the executive under this administration.
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Sep 25, 2019 02:31
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:So it’s beyond clear that Trump was up to deep underhanded poo poo with Ukraine going back months and months. Was all this effort and groundwork really just to get oppo dirt on Joe Biden’s son? Surely there must be some larger thing at work here right? Am I crazy to have the sneaking suspicion that this is the tip of some iceberg that involves Trump compromising our entire intelligence operation? He's trying to act like a mob boss, trying to have dirt on everyone just in case. He's just incredibly dumb.
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Sep 25, 2019 02:31
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Yes because we had so much legislation just flying through the Senate.
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Sep 25, 2019 02:31
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The most predictable thing ever happened.
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Sep 25, 2019 02:31
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Democrats: ...this isn't really a threat if you are already doing it.
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Sep 25, 2019 02:32
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TheGreatEvilKing posted:While I would love to see Trump impeached in disgrace, how are we gonna get by Cocaine Mitch? It is possible to both impeach Donny and have Moscow Mitch blatantly wipe his rear end with the Constitution as he refuses to allow the trial.
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Sep 25, 2019 02:33
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Sundae posted:Another thing to consider on this point: the one thing Pelosi fans nearly unanimously call as a positive is her supposed ability to wrangle votes / control the house. So when she says she doesn't have the votes / Trump is self-impeaching / whatever the hell else, she's either bad at her job and unable to wrangle votes, or she didn't want to impeach in the first place (and therefore didn't try to get her people in line). sausagebeingmade.png Yep, she should have come out for impeachment on January 20, 2017. Don't know why it didn't happen, not sure anyone does yet. I tend to blame it on us, but that's me. 
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Sep 25, 2019 02:33
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cheetah7071 posted:tangentionally related question: is anybody aware of any historical times where political norms get horribly broken and then things later return to normal (and remain a democracy), without intervening violence? Bush v Gore.
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Sep 25, 2019 02:33
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Trump: "Democrats are pursuing impeachment instead of wonderful things for our country. Sad!" Also Trump: "If you don't stop letting me cheat, I'm gonna turn over the Monopoly board and go home!"  "
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Sep 25, 2019 02:33
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TheGreatEvilKing posted:While I would love to see Trump impeached in disgrace, how are we gonna get by Cocaine Mitch? Justice Roberts will be the president of the trial. There's only going to be so much that McConnell can do in theory because each senator is going to have to look at what's presented to them and what's presented to the public and then vote. So there's no winning easily or even likely in the Senate, but this being an impeachment will put McConnell in a little bit deeper water than normal.
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Sep 25, 2019 02:34
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At least he'll finally shut up about the bill to fund the big beautiful wall.
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Sep 25, 2019 02:34
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Sundae posted:Another thing to consider on this point: the one thing Pelosi fans nearly unanimously call as a positive is her supposed ability to wrangle votes / control the house. So when she says she doesn't have the votes / Trump is self-impeaching / whatever the hell else, she's either bad at her job and unable to wrangle votes, or she didn't want to impeach in the first place (and therefore didn't try to get her people in line). I said this in the last thread and I'll say it again--politicians take action to save their own asses, not the country. F. W. de Klerk did not end apartheid in South Africa out of the goodness of his heart. He might have been one of the moderates, but he was a member of the very National Party that instituted apartheid and played ball with them from the first day he was in a political position to the last day of his presidency. He did it because it would lift the sanctions that the rest of the world made against South Africa and it took him getting elected president and his predecessor resigning because of their failing mental faculties and health. Ending apartheid was the right thing to do. It was a horrible institution that never should have existed in the first place and the only right thing to do with it was to end it. He did the right thing and he insists that he felt it was a horrible system. He did the right thing by releasing Nelson Mandela from prison. But don't ever for a second believe that a member of the National Party, the party that implemented apartheid, ended it because it was the right thing to do. It was to save their own asses. This is not a defense of politicians who only move for positive change because it polls well. It's loving terrible and I wish people with better intentions were in positions of power, but that's the reality of political power. I would prefer someone who was an activist for LGBTQ rights to be the one to lead the charge in the House to get bills that protected their rights and allowed for same-sex marriage passed, but in the end it was a conservative Supreme Justice's dissent that was the cited reason to legalize same-sex marriage because he was in the losing side of a 5-4 decision. Star Man fucked around with this message at 02:42 on Sep 25, 2019 |
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Sep 25, 2019 02:36
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bird cooch posted:speaker of the house they speak for the majority. the majority just came around in the last 72 hours, really in the last twenty-four. I like how you just blatantly ignored (or perhaps didn't understand?) the point I made about being a leader and not a follower. e: bird cooch posted:When? Cite some specific examples. Because at worst she was noncommittal until more information was available. Even the "impeachment is off the table" was taken completely out of context. She flat-out and very testily refused to answer any more questions about impeachment from the press two weeks ago. Have you just not been paying attention until today? Majorian fucked around with this message at 02:39 on Sep 25, 2019 |
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Sep 25, 2019 02:37
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So, hypothetically, can one be impeached, removed from office... and then run for that office again and potentially get reelected?
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Sep 25, 2019 02:38
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Majorian posted:I like how you just blatantly ignored (or perhaps didn't understand?) the point I made about being a leader and not a follower. and did you just rushed to make sweet internet burn instead of reading what I loving wrote?
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Sep 25, 2019 02:38
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OddObserver posted:I presume that's the new ambassador? i just love how its all going to poo poo for them this fast and the leaks are coming quick. its the loving overlook hotel and the ghouls forgot to make the meatpuppet check the boiler and now its blowing and now ghouls are screaming and running.
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Sep 25, 2019 02:40
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bird cooch posted:and did you just rushed to make sweet internet burn instead of reading what I loving wrote? I did read what you wrote. What you wrote about the majority not appearing in the House until today was not a valid response to my point. Pelosi could have shown some leadership before today and made that majority appear sooner than almost three years into Trump's term. Eiba posted:So, hypothetically, can one be impeached, removed from office... and then run for that office again and potentially get reelected? e: oops, misread. I'm pretty sure the answer is no. Majorian fucked around with this message at 02:43 on Sep 25, 2019 |
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Sep 25, 2019 02:40
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https://twitter.com/StephenAtHome/status/1176656374798962691
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Sep 25, 2019 02:42
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Eiba posted:So, hypothetically, can one be impeached, removed from office... and then run for that office again and potentially get reelected?
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Sep 25, 2019 02:43
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