USPOL Fall: Biden the hand that feeds you

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > USPOL Fall: Biden the hand that feeds you

Ate My Balls Redux: Aug 2, 2018; by LITERALLY AN ADMIN

bird cooch posted:

Her base? California? What about all the other people who are representatives for all the other people in the country.

In the house of..... representatives. Those folks just have to represent their constituency. Hey guess what happened in the last week?

I'm going to need to know what county you moved the goalposts to so I can kick the next one.

Also I know this is hard to follow so I'm going to put it in real simple words. the speaker of the House speaks for the majority of the house which we just got in the last few days. They are not the president. They represent the members of their district and the majority members of the House of Representatives. there's a lot more to be found on Wikipedia if you were too stoned during middle School.

Is unearned smugness your gimmick? You are claiming she had no support because loving Republicans didn't want to impeach

# ? Sep 25, 2019 05:33

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# ? Jun 5, 2024 16:11

Ate My Balls Redux: Aug 2, 2018; by LITERALLY AN ADMIN

Herstory Begins Now posted:

I've been saying for a while that all the people ranting about pelosi defenders are welcome to go back the last thousand pages and find one person defending her spineless bullshit

but not we've got a live one

I'm gonna say this REAL SLOW because you were on the wacky tobacky in social studies... pee pee poo poo centrists good

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

# ? Sep 25, 2019 05:35

bird cooch: Jan 19, 2007

Majorian posted:

You still seem to be unclear on the concept that Speakers of the House can exert leadership, if they feel so compelled. The fact that Pelosi did not feel so compelled is the problem.

I'm not confused at all. I am simply working with the data that actually exist instead of extrapolation from nothing.

There is absolutely zero data about what's going on other than some never-ending Dems and disarray stories that everybody loves to click and always has some sort of unnamed person behind them.

I guess I would say that's my defaults assumption is that I am not smarter than everyone else and here in the real world where I operate and am reasonably successful I has turned out time and time again to be a good tact.

Automatically assuming because it fits some sort of predetermined narrative that everybody is bad usually ends up with you either ignoring history or making gross baseless assumptions. Which is what we're dealing with here.

You want to talk about leadership and yet here we are on a day when some of the cards were shown and yet, and yet you still face your rash illogical assumptions on the idea that you are smarter than everybody else.

Hubris.

This conversation has been had time and time again over the last six or so months if that, and time as far as I've seen, has Shone out that there is something else going on. Instead of the aimless screeching that everybody sucks and is a coward.

The Democrats are the big tent party, because of that there is no lock step. There is no over-reaching party line that is handed out in a memo every morning and repeated on the news channels and verbatim out of the mouths of Representatives.

some of this is a little more advanced government theory, but most of it is how the House of Representatives works. You want a single person to blame, there is no single person.

Y'all are too invested in what the internet thinks and eventually you're going to figure out that the Internet isn't real life, that something awful has a varying degrees of groupthink depending on which politics thread you are inand that there is no quick fix.

There never was, there never will be. You can look at history as an example.

The votes to file articles of impeachment tomorrow are still not there, however it is now within striking distance and is now with in a real chance of success.

Take yourself down a couple notches.

And to repeat myself as I seem to have to do over and loving over again I do not like Nancy Pelosi I wish she would retire and be replaced by somebody within a couple of generations of normal people.

Ate My Balls Redux posted:

Is unearned smugness your gimmick? You are claiming she had no support because loving Republicans didn't want to impeach

It's not unearned smugness, it's the ability to pay attention and remember what has actually happened instead of what I wish had happened.

You called it revisionist history, and were loving wrong and yet you just brushed that aside.

My gimmick is that I am a genuine poster and I'm not pretending, more people should try it and maybe talk to people like real people exist in the real world.

bird cooch fucked around with this message at 05:40 on Sep 25, 2019

# ? Sep 25, 2019 05:36

Ormi: Feb 7, 2005; B-E-H-A-V-E
Arrest us!

U.S. invokes state secrets privilege to block American journalist�s challenge to alleged spot on drone �kill list� posted:

A U.S. judge Tuesday dismissed an American journalist�s lawsuit challenging his alleged placement on a �kill list� by U.S. authorities in Syria, after the Trump administration invoked the �state secrets� privilege to withhold sensitive national security information.

U.S. District Judge Rosemary M. Collyer of Washington, D.C., last year had opened the way for Bilal Abdul Kareem, a freelance journalist who grew up in New York, to seek answers in his civil case from the government and to try to clear his name after what he claims were five near-misses by U.S. airstrikes in Syria.

Collyer in June 2018 ruled that Abdul Kareem, who said he was mistaken for a militant because of his frequent contact with militants linked to al-Qaeda, was exercising his constitutional right to due process in court.

But after talks between Abdul Kareem�s lawyers and U.S. authorities broke down, the government tapped the rarely invoked state secrets authority, saying Abdul Kareem sought information revealing �the existence and operational details of alleged military and intelligence activities directed at combating the terrorist threat to the United States.�

In a 14-page opinion, Collyer said she was bound to agree, saying the government�s right to withhold information in such instances is �absolute.�

�What constitutional right is more essential than the right to due process before the government may take a life? While the answer may be none, federal courts possess limited authority to resolve questions presented in a lawsuit, even when they are alleged to involve constitutional rights. This is such a case,� Collyer wrote, adding, �Despite the serious nature of Plaintiff�s allegations, this Court must dismiss the action pursuant to the government�s invocation of the state secrets privilege.�

Prosecutors said that disclosing whether Abdul Kareem is on the �kill list� could permit him to evade capture or further U.S. action, and also could risk revealing or compromising intelligence sources and methods.

Collyer at a May 2018 hearing in Abdul Kareem�s case questioned whether national security concerns trump individuals� rights in the U.S. �targeted-killing program, a question left open by courts since the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks. On Tuesday, the judge credited the government for engaging �in months of consideration� before providing �reasoned declarations� supporting its views.

Collyer noted that if Abdul Kareem were to face criminal prosecution, the government would be required to disclose classified information important to his defense. But she said that no such requirement applies to offset the state secret privilege in a civil case.

The judge also said it was not up to the courts to adopt Abdul Kareem�s attorneys� proposal that people placed on the �kill list� should have the same due-process protections as organizations designated as terrorists by the State or Treasury departments.

In a statement, Abdul Kareem�s attorneys said, �We are very disappointed in today�s decision,� which they said �renders the right to due process effectively meaningless for Mr. Kareem.�

�For the first time ever, a United States federal court ruled that the government may kill one of its citizens without providing him the information necessary to prove that he is being wrongly targeted and does not deserve to die,� attorney Tara J. Plochocki said. �The U.S. Government could have provided this information but chose not to and the Court found that the Government�s assertion of national security trumps his right not to be killed.�

# ? Sep 25, 2019 05:38

Boris Galerkin: Dec 17, 2011; I don't understand why I can't harass people online. Seriously, somebody please explain why I shouldn't be allowed to stalk others on social media!

FizFashizzle posted:

https://twitter.com/thetomzone/status/1176691717749256192?s=20

I watched the video and I�m pretty sure that Rudy was just holding up the phone and saying �it�s all here� as in �all the conversations are right here on this phone.�

That iPhone he has automatically lights up when picked up and pointed at anything.

# ? Sep 25, 2019 05:59

Bugsy: Jul 15, 2004; I'm thumpin'. That's
why they call me
'Thumper'.; Slippery Tilde

https://twitter.com/ndrew_lawrence/status/1176673472774332416

# ? Sep 25, 2019 06:05

RandomBlue: Dec 30, 2012; hay guys!; Biscuit Hider

Boris Galerkin posted:

I watched the video and I’m pretty sure that Rudy was just holding up the phone and saying “it’s all here” as in “all the conversations are right here on this phone.”

That iPhone he has automatically lights up when picked up and pointed at anything.

Good job. Mystery solved, thread.

# ? Sep 25, 2019 06:06

Have Some Flowers!: Aug 27, 2004; Hey, I've got Navigate...

Fox News' main page is a full court press attacking the impeachment inquiry from every angle. For all the conventional wisdom that this help's Trumps chances in 2020, they don't seem to be taking it lightly.

# ? Sep 25, 2019 06:10

Amazing Zimmo: Jan 27, 2006; That's quite a load you got in them diapers

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1176701564624543744

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1176702213613334535

still going

# ? Sep 25, 2019 06:10

KillHour: Oct 28, 2007

Ormi posted:

Stuff about Bilal Abdul Kareem

If I were this guy, I would be trying to get my rear end to US soil as fast as I could and see if they arrest me at customs. Better to be arrested and have some sort of due process than blown up in your sleep.

KillHour fucked around with this message at 06:15 on Sep 25, 2019

# ? Sep 25, 2019 06:13

Aramis: Sep 22, 2009

Have Some Flowers! posted:

Fox News' main page is a full court press attacking the impeachment inquiry from every angle. For all the conventional wisdom that this help's Trumps chances in 2020, they don't seem to be taking it lightly.

Preventing the impeachment of a Republican president is the one thing Fox News is meant to do. Everything else is/has been gravy. It's not exactly surprising that they are going "red alert, all hands on deck!" on this.

# ? Sep 25, 2019 06:13

i am harry: Oct 14, 2003

So is that journalist still on the Kill List?

# ? Sep 25, 2019 06:14

CRIP EATIN BREAD: Jun 24, 2002; Hey stop worrying bout my acting bitch, and worry about your WACK ass music. In the mean time... Eat a hot bowl of Dicks! Ice T; Soiled Meat

He probably got moved to the top of the list.

# ? Sep 25, 2019 06:15

CmdrRiker: Apr 8, 2016; You dismally untalented little creep!

Is this what Pelosi meant by implying that Trump will eventually self impeach? I wonder how potent that tactic is when the Overton Window has already dramatically shifted.

# ? Sep 25, 2019 06:16

Pants Donkey: Nov 13, 2011

Have Some Flowers! posted:

Fox News' main page is a full court press attacking the impeachment inquiry from every angle. For all the conventional wisdom that this help's Trumps chances in 2020, they don't seem to be taking it lightly.

I mean, they�ve been preparing for this. Gonna be a lot of boomers wanting updates followed by assholes telling them how said updates are actually good for the president.

# ? Sep 25, 2019 06:17

Kaboobi: Jan 5, 2005; SHAKE IT BABY!
SALT THAT LADY!

Fox News was literally created post-Nixon to make sure that never happened again to a republican. Of course they�re fighting it from every angle.

# ? Sep 25, 2019 06:18

KillHour: Oct 28, 2007

i am harry posted:

So is that journalist still on the Kill List?

The US Government won't tell him.

Honestly, the US military shouldn't have jurisdiction to kill anybody outside of a war declared by congress. The fact that we have a list of people we just want dead without any form of due process is absolutely insane.

Can we move from abolish ICE to abolish the DoD?

# ? Sep 25, 2019 06:21

RuanGacho: Jun 20, 2002; "You're gunna break it!"

KillHour posted:

The US Government won't tell him.

Honestly, the US military shouldn't have jurisdiction to kill anybody outside of a war declared by congress. The fact that we have a list of people we just want dead without any form of due process is absolutely insane.

Can we move from abolish ICE to abolish the DoD?

I mean I'm with you, but people can't reconcile not having armed guards at the border doesn't mean "open borders"

# ? Sep 25, 2019 06:24

Have Some Flowers!: Aug 27, 2004; Hey, I've got Navigate...

Kaboobi posted:

Fox News was literally created post-Nixon to make sure that never happened again to a republican. Of course they’re fighting it from every angle.

My point is that the conventional wisdom is probably less certain than we thought it was, not that their behavior is unexpected.

# ? Sep 25, 2019 06:25

Mahoning: Feb 3, 2007

I�m starting to think the paranoia is going to get to him and he�s gonna do something drastic and REALLY egregious like a Super Saturday Night Massacre (this sounds like a WWF PPV from the Attitude Era).

# ? Sep 25, 2019 06:25

eviltastic: Feb 8, 2004; Fan of Britches

KillHour posted:

Can we move from abolish ICE to abolish the DoD?

I'd be content with "Ex parte Milligan was a good ruling, actually, and should still be the law."

# ? Sep 25, 2019 06:33

nine-gear crow: Aug 10, 2013

Kaboobi posted:

Fox News was literally created post-Nixon to make sure that never happened again to a republican. Of course they�re fighting it from every angle.

Yep. This is Fox's crucible. This is the moment it was created for specifically. If Trump is successfully impeached or resigns in the midst of impeachment, then it has failed the mission it was put on this earth to accomplish and 40 years of Roger Ailes' life and effort meant absolutely nothing.

Can't wait :munch:

# ? Sep 25, 2019 06:34

RuanGacho: Jun 20, 2002; "You're gunna break it!"

nine-gear crow posted:

Yep. This is Fox's crucible. This is the moment it was created for specifically. If Trump is successfully impeached or resigns in the midst of impeachment, then it has failed the mission it was put on this earth to do and 40 years of Roger Ailes' life and effort meant absolutely nothing.

Can't wait

Time to make their lives(and lies) as hard as possible, there has been no better time for it.

# ? Sep 25, 2019 06:35

KillHour: Oct 28, 2007

RuanGacho posted:

I mean I'm with you, but people can't reconcile not having armed guards at the border doesn't mean "open borders"

We have armed guards all over. They're called police.

# ? Sep 25, 2019 06:41

Illuminti: Dec 3, 2005; Praise be to China's Covid-Zero Policy

Rodenthar Drothman posted:

So I actually read the article and watched the video because I'm like 90% sure my dad did / will, and I wanna be able to rebut that poo poo.

So.
In the video, Biden brags about dickwaving the Ukranians into firing the prosecutor or else he'll get back on a plane and they won't get $1 billion in aid. So that's hosed up, and I don't think that's how the world should work - but as right wingers argue, that's how the world does work. (This will likely be a decent point to throw back at anyone making these arguments in your life, it staggers them a bit.)
So gently caress that, it's dumb and dirty politics but it's not out of the norm.

But this all then only fits into the right-wing narrative if you conveniently ignore the facts that the prosecutor
A: had shelved the investigation like 6 months earlier (right?), and
B: was deemed to be crooked by our intelligence community and needed to be replaced (i guess? Haven't done a ton more reading so if someone can tell me exactly how we came to the "he needs to be replaced" determination I'd much appreciate it),

Isn't the point that Biden was threatening to withhold aid with the consent of the government and in agreement with the EU and others for the benefit of the US and the Ukraine and to achieve a specific goal and Trump was trying to extort them using his position and taxpayer money for personal gain and personal reasons against a private citizen.

How is it even remotely comparable?

# ? Sep 25, 2019 06:41

KillHour: Oct 28, 2007

eviltastic posted:

I'd be content with "Ex parte Milligan was a good ruling, actually, and should still be the law."

How the hell was this not cited as precedent in the Bilal Abdul Kareem case?

I think this might be what I blow my OA "Patrons get to pick a deep dive subject" on.

# ? Sep 25, 2019 06:42

Grouchio: Aug 31, 2014

haveblue posted:

Foghorn Leghorn was based on a parody of a southern senator to begin with

Senator Claghorn from the Fred Allen Show, specifically :goonsay:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6-JddDUnyY

# ? Sep 25, 2019 06:48

Flesh Forge: Jan 31, 2011; LET ME TELL YOU ABOUT MY DOG

Mahoning posted:

I�m starting to think the paranoia is going to get to him and he�s gonna do something drastic and REALLY egregious like a Super Saturday Night Massacre (this sounds like a WWF PPV from the Attitude Era).

That's actually right up Trump's alley, so ...

# ? Sep 25, 2019 06:49

eviltastic: Feb 8, 2004; Fan of Britches

KillHour posted:

How the hell was this not cited as precedent in the Bilal Abdul Kareem case?

I think this might be what I blow my OA "Patrons get to pick a deep dive subject" on.

Might've been, for all I know. Regarding the broader significance, it's a complicated answer and I gotta sleep, but I'll try to put together a post if nobody else mentions it and I get the time. Short answer is it's a good precedent that was also very inconvenient. Followup cases would be Ex parte Quirin, Johnson v Eisentrager, and a bunch of poo poo from the Bush administration because of course there was.

# ? Sep 25, 2019 06:52

Shrecknet: Jan 2, 2005

Flesh Forge posted:

That's actually right up Trump's alley, so ...

It bears repeating that Trump is literally In the WWE Wrestling Hall of Fame and by providing Trump properties for venues of some key early PPVs he can fairly claim to be personally responsible for wrestling's existence as an ongoing national item.

# ? Sep 25, 2019 06:53

KillHour: Oct 28, 2007

eviltastic posted:

Might've been, for all I know. Regarding the broader significance, it's a complicated answer and I gotta sleep, but I'll try to put together a post if nobody else mentions it and I get the time. Short answer is it's a good precedent that was also very inconvenient. Followup cases would be Ex parte Quirin, Johnson v Eisentrager, and a bunch of poo poo from the Bush administration because of course there was.

Would love more info on this when you get a chance.

# ? Sep 25, 2019 06:56

negativeneil: Jul 8, 2000; "Personally, I think he's done a great job of being down to earth so far."

Illuminti posted:

Isn't the point that Biden was threatening to withhold aid with the consent of the government and in agreement with the EU and others for the benefit of the US and the Ukraine and to achieve a specific goal and Trump was trying to extort them using his position and taxpayer money for personal gain and personal reasons against a private citizen.

How is it even remotely comparable?

That's a level of nuance that the American voters have proved incapable of assessing over the course of our entire lives.

# ? Sep 25, 2019 06:57

Goatse James Bond: Mar 28, 2010; If you see me posting please remind me that I have Charlie Work in the reports forum to do instead

eviltastic posted:

Might've been, for all I know. Regarding the broader significance, it's a complicated answer and I gotta sleep, but I'll try to put together a post if nobody else mentions it and I get the time. Short answer is it's a good precedent that was also very inconvenient. Followup cases would be Ex parte Quirin, Johnson v Eisentrager, and a bunch of poo poo from the Bush administration because of course there was.

i, for one, have absolutely no interest in the deeply nerdy inner details of every single supreme court case and lower court case available on this topic or any other fascinating topic, and frankly it'd be weird if anyone thought i did

# ? Sep 25, 2019 07:23

SocketWrench: Jul 8, 2012; by Fritz the Horse

Dammerung posted:

What a sad, angry little man.

You'd think that they would have had some better response(s) ready to go, considering how long impeachment had been discussed.

Like everything else about this administration they're unprepared for the obvious

# ? Sep 25, 2019 07:54

RoboChrist 9000: Dec 14, 2006; Mater Dolorosa

To be fair, I�m also not sure it is entirely unreasonable to expect Quislings to Quisling and that the Democrats would never finally make a move.

# ? Sep 25, 2019 08:30

Rodenthar Drothman: May 14, 2013; I think I will continue
watching this twilight world
as long as time flows.

Illuminti posted:

Isn't the point that Biden was threatening to withhold aid with the consent of the government and in agreement with the EU and others for the benefit of the US and the Ukraine and to achieve a specific goal and Trump was trying to extort them using his position and taxpayer money for personal gain and personal reasons against a private citizen.

How is it even remotely comparable?

Yes, and maybe I'm already falling for the trap by even treating their arguments as good faith arguments and trying to figure out how to pick them apart.
Especially dumb after a couple strong beers.

# ? Sep 25, 2019 08:53

Goatse James Bond: Mar 28, 2010; If you see me posting please remind me that I have Charlie Work in the reports forum to do instead

RoboChrist 9000 posted:

To be fair, I�m also not sure it is entirely unreasonable to expect Quislings to Quisling and that the Democrats would never finally make a move.

are you entirely incapable of accepting that House Democrats did a good thing?

edit: "o ho, we finally had something good happen, but have you considered that House Dems Are Bad nonetheless" is a Bad Take, just so we're clear here; it is demonstrably wrong, right now, today, in the most dramatic fashion since

uh

the coronation of Donald I Trump

Goatse James Bond fucked around with this message at 09:03 on Sep 25, 2019

# ? Sep 25, 2019 08:59

LITERALLY MY FETISH: Nov 11, 2010; Raise Chris Coons' taxes so that we can have Medicare for All.

bird cooch posted:

I'm not confused at all. I am simply working with the data that actually exist instead of extrapolation from nothing.

There is absolutely zero data about what's going on other than some never-ending Dems and disarray stories that everybody loves to click and always has some sort of unnamed person behind them.

I guess I would say that's my defaults assumption is that I am not smarter than everyone else and here in the real world where I operate and am reasonably successful I has turned out time and time again to be a good tact.

Automatically assuming because it fits some sort of predetermined narrative that everybody is bad usually ends up with you either ignoring history or making gross baseless assumptions. Which is what we're dealing with here.

You want to talk about leadership and yet here we are on a day when some of the cards were shown and yet, and yet you still face your rash illogical assumptions on the idea that you are smarter than everybody else.

Hubris.

This conversation has been had time and time again over the last six or so months if that, and time as far as I've seen, has Shone out that there is something else going on. Instead of the aimless screeching that everybody sucks and is a coward.

The Democrats are the big tent party, because of that there is no lock step. There is no over-reaching party line that is handed out in a memo every morning and repeated on the news channels and verbatim out of the mouths of Representatives.

some of this is a little more advanced government theory, but most of it is how the House of Representatives works. You want a single person to blame, there is no single person.

Y'all are too invested in what the internet thinks and eventually you're going to figure out that the Internet isn't real life, that something awful has a varying degrees of groupthink depending on which politics thread you are inand that there is no quick fix.

There never was, there never will be. You can look at history as an example.

The votes to file articles of impeachment tomorrow are still not there, however it is now within striking distance and is now with in a real chance of success.

Take yourself down a couple notches.

And to repeat myself as I seem to have to do over and loving over again I do not like Nancy Pelosi I wish she would retire and be replaced by somebody within a couple of generations of normal people.

It's not unearned smugness, it's the ability to pay attention and remember what has actually happened instead of what I wish had happened.

You called it revisionist history, and were loving wrong and yet you just brushed that aside.

My gimmick is that I am a genuine poster and I'm not pretending, more people should try it and maybe talk to people like real people exist in the real world.

I�ve found it helpful to write this kind of stuff out in a .txt and then reread it after like half an hour, really cuts down on having to insist I�m not the confused one posting several paragraph screeds in my best pundit brain impression.

# ? Sep 25, 2019 09:28