USPOL Fall: Biden the hand that feeds you

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > USPOL Fall: Biden the hand that feeds you

skylined!: Apr 6, 2012; THE DEM DEFENDER HAS LOGGED ON

Flip Yr Wig posted:

What in the gently caress is happening in this thread? The Senate is going to acquit Trump. We've known this since he won the election. His acquittal is not a chaos scenario.

All that really matters at this point wrt the senate convicting is how public reaction swings. If enough purple R senators see their election chances disintegrating, he'll be removed.

I mean, it's incredibly unlikely, but who the gently caress saw this being the thing that ignited impeachment a week ago?

# ? Sep 25, 2019 18:26

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# ? Jun 5, 2024 14:07

CuddleCryptid: Jan 11, 2013; Things could be going better

Flip Yr Wig posted:

What in the gently caress is happening in this thread? The Senate is going to acquit Trump. We've known this since he won the election. His acquittal is not a chaos scenario.

Politicians always work for their own self-interest. If the material that is dug up is bad enough that it would affect their reeelection, AND they can get an "out" without looking traitorous to the party, they will take it.

# ? Sep 25, 2019 18:26

Heck Yes! Loam!: Nov 15, 2004; a rich, friable soil containing a relatively equal mixture of sand and silt and a somewhat smaller proportion of clay.

Shimrra Jamaane posted:

So any word on if the whistle blower is going to testify to Congress within the week?

No official word. I'm sure the guys personal lawyer is being bombarded by several committees.

# ? Sep 25, 2019 18:27

mango sentinel: Jan 5, 2001; by sebmojo

They would have Pence and the cabinet backstab Trump before rendering a verdict in the Senate if he looked irredeemably guilty.

# ? Sep 25, 2019 18:27

Captain Stalin: May 11, 2004; Have no fear, the Captain is here!

Do we have any idea who the whistleblower is? I'm honestly surprised that the white house hasn't started attacking staffers that they suspect.

# ? Sep 25, 2019 18:27

Majorian: Jul 1, 2009

theflyingorc posted:

Now, Hillary, of course

That doesn't mean she was privately pushing for it or that she was definitely going to do it at some point in the future. It just means that you (and me, honestly) disagree about the strategy she was using. She was waiting to see if her caucus moved to overwhelmingly want to impeach.

If she wasn't sure it was going to go through, she's obviously not going to want to discuss it with reporters.

I suspect that she didn't have her caucus in line like she has previously, and I'm disappointed in her for that. But honestly, we're in way, way better shape than we would have been if impeachment had started in March. This isn't because Pelosi had a grand strategy, but this honestly seems like the best possible moment.

I dunno, given how much impeachment can strengthen the hand of House committees in their investigations, it seems to me that we could have gotten to this point a lot quicker. Again, it would be one thing if Pelosi just stonewalled, but she was openly antagonistic, to the point where she was vaguely threatening members of her caucus for even talking about it.

# ? Sep 25, 2019 18:27

OddObserver: Apr 3, 2009

Disappointing Pie posted:

https://twitter.com/JoshDorner/status/1176896233329385472

President Pelosi anyone?

You have to be careful here since corruption really is a big issue for Ukraine, and for all we know Pence may have been telling the Ukrainian president not to give the oligarch backing him his bank back. (That bank got nationalized under the previous president since the oligarch embezzled like 5 billion from it, making it insolvent).

Of course, that Trump's call wasn't about this issue is sort of damning in its own way.

# ? Sep 25, 2019 18:28

evilweasel: Aug 24, 2002

there's not enough vulnerable republican senators to get to 67, even if some vulnerable republicans cave and vote to convict, but forcing vulnerable republican senators to vote (either way) on allegations serious enough that their vote is in doubt is a no-win situation for them for their next election

# ? Sep 25, 2019 18:28

Arist: Feb 13, 2012; _{who, me?}

skylined! posted:

All that really matters at this point is how public reaction swings. If enough purple R senators see their election chances disintegrating, he'll be removed.

I mean, it's incredibly unlikely, but who the gently caress saw this being the thing that ignited impeachment a week ago?

Was this even a story a full week ago? This kind of shot into the stratosphere so quickly no one even had time to react to it.

# ? Sep 25, 2019 18:28

Dapper_Swindler: Feb 14, 2012; Im glad my instant dislike in you has been validated again and again.

Herstory Begins Now posted:

As an aside, for those familiar with how Russian corruption works, eg the krysha/kompromat system, Ukraine operates on a similar system. In a system where rules #1,2, and 3 are all 'cover your own rear end at all times in all things' someone recorded giuliani doing crimes.

yeah exactly. i assume the urkranian executive office has full transcripts at the very least.

# ? Sep 25, 2019 18:28

evilweasel: Aug 24, 2002

Arist posted:

Was this even a story a full week ago? This kind of shot into the stratosphere so quickly no one even had time to react to it.

The basic outlines of this story have been public for some time. What wasn't public is Trump was dumb enough to do it in person rather than Guliani freelancing with his implicit blessing.

# ? Sep 25, 2019 18:29

Pigbuster: Sep 12, 2010; Fun Shoe

Au Revoir Shosanna posted:

https://twitter.com/EliNSavit/status/1176864188637097984

How is this not a quid pro quo? As far as I can tell they�re just ignoring it but... it�s right there. There it is.

# ? Sep 25, 2019 18:30

threeagainstfour: Jun 27, 2005

I don't think the Senate will impeach Trump, but to me that's never been the point of impeachment in this scenario.

Outside of the fact that they have an obligation to do it, I think it will end up being politically useful to drag all of this dirt in front of the American public for months. The Dems can then make the Senate own the fact that they will shield the idiot mob boss/casino owner no matter what evidence you put in front of them. Not impeaching basically means Trump gets to do all this corrupt stuff with next to no real scrutiny outside of a bunch of screaming op-eds no one will read, and the Senate GOP doesn't have to go on the record as condoning it.

# ? Sep 25, 2019 18:30

ManBoyChef: Aug 1, 2019; Deadbeat Dad

Tim Raines IRL posted:

when I worked IT at a car dealership group, a sales manager sent an email to his entire team that included a spreadsheet which showed everyone's base and margins and bonuses. Cue a frantic call from him on how to "recall" an email which had already been delivered to 100 outlook boxes. Good luck. You could (at that time, Outlook ~2008 era) send a "delete" email but the default sorting we used caused people to nearly always open the thing to be "deleted" before opening the "delete" email.

employees should know what everyone else is making.

# ? Sep 25, 2019 18:30

The Bloop: Jul 5, 2004; by Fluffdaddy

Acquittal is the best case scenario we can hope for.

I hesitate to even put this thought into the world in writing but if McConnell et al were as savvy as they'd like to think, they might Ax trump immediately in an impeachment.

Now, everyone, you trump-hating centrists, gather 'round and circle the wagons for President Pence, we need to show him our American solidarity in this difficult time. He deserves the benefit of the doubt. He was always the steady hand on the wheel keeping Trump's excesses in line. The dignified return to normalcy. Jesus wants you to vote for him. Oh, and we can have an incumbent president on the ballot in 2020 AND 2024 because yes folks, he can be re-elected twice. All hail 10-year president Pence!

gently caress

Much better that an embarrassed, petulant Trump stays in office for an extra year and the Republicans look like unreasonable crooks that put party before country.

# ? Sep 25, 2019 18:31

skylined!: Apr 6, 2012; THE DEM DEFENDER HAS LOGGED ON

Arist posted:

Was this even a story a full week ago? This kind of shot into the stratosphere so quickly no one even had time to react to it.

There have been murmurings about weird Ukraine stuff for a few months, but I think the whistleblower thing broke Friday afternoon?

Schiff's office has been writing letters to the IGIC for like a month though; I can't find anywhere that it was picked up by a news outlet until late last week though.

# ? Sep 25, 2019 18:31

Slugworth: Feb 18, 2001; If two grown men can't make a pervert happy for a few minutes in order to watch a film about zombies, then maybe we should all just move to Iran!

theflyingorc posted:

Yeah that's not real

poo poo, I should be clear - He's clearly an insane person, I'm just wondering if he's following the Q stuff, or if this is reference to more moderate fox news insanity.

But yes, I was not asking if I should he concerned for Chuck Schumer.

# ? Sep 25, 2019 18:31

D-Pad: Jun 28, 2006

I understand this won't happen, but if we did get a successful double impeachment/conviction and Pelosi became president what would happen with the primary? Traditionally, the incumbent automatically gets the nomination...

# ? Sep 25, 2019 18:32

Skex: Feb 22, 2012; The great thing about the thousands of slaughtered Palestinian children is that they can't pull away when you fondle them or sniff their hair.

That's a Biden success story.

Disappointing Pie posted:

https://twitter.com/JoshDorner/status/1176896233329385472

President Pelosi anyone?

This is why she had to be seen as being reluctant on the subject of impeachment. You can poo poo on :decorum:

all you want but there was no reason for her to give the GOP the giant talking point that an impeachment effort is just a power grab on her part. I mean they are going to say it either way but it would carry more weight outside the chuddiverse if she was a leading proponent. By her having to be drug reluctantly into impeaching him she can credibly say that "no this is not about me and power this is about the good of the country"

# ? Sep 25, 2019 18:32

theflyingorc: Jun 28, 2008; ANY GOOD OPINIONS THIS POSTER CLAIMS TO HAVE ARE JUST PROOF THAT BULLYING WORKS; Young Orc

The Bloop posted:

Acquittal is the best case scenario we can hope for.

I hesitate to even put this thought into the world in writing but if McConnell et al were as savvy as they'd like to think, they might Ax trump immediately in an impeachment.

Now, everyone, you trump-hating centrists, gather 'round and circle the wagons for President Pence, we need to show him our American solidarity in this difficult time. He deserves the benefit of the doubt. He was always the steady hand on the wheel keeping Trump's excesses in line. The dignified return to normalcy. Jesus wants you to vote for him. Oh, and we can have an incumbent president on the ballot in 2020 AND 2024 because yes folks, he can be re-elected twice. All hail 10-year president Pence!

gently caress

Much better that an embarrassed, petulant Trump stays in office for an extra year and the Republicans look like unreasonable crooks that put party before country.

It is hard for me to imagine a worse presidential candidate for right now than Mike Pence.

# ? Sep 25, 2019 18:33

haveblue: Aug 15, 2005; Toilet Rascal

The Bloop posted:

Acquittal is the best case scenario we can hope for.

I hesitate to even put this thought into the world in writing but if McConnell et al were as savvy as they'd like to think, they might Ax trump immediately in an impeachment.

Now, everyone, you trump-hating centrists, gather 'round and circle the wagons for President Pence, we need to show him our American solidarity in this difficult time. He deserves the benefit of the doubt. He was always the steady hand on the wheel keeping Trump's excesses in line. The dignified return to normalcy. Jesus wants you to vote for him. Oh, and we can have an incumbent president on the ballot in 2020 AND 2024 because yes folks, he can be re-elected twice. All hail 10-year president Pence!

gently caress

Much better that an embarrassed, petulant Trump stays in office for an extra year and the Republicans look like unreasonable crooks that put party before country.

It is not at all clear that Pence can win a national election, especially with Trump still on twitter shouting about how unfair it all was.

# ? Sep 25, 2019 18:33

OddObserver: Apr 3, 2009

Dapper_Swindler posted:

yeah exactly. i assume the urkranian executive office has full transcripts at the very least.

There is zero chance those ever get released, except maybe to rephrase them to be nicer about Merkel or something --- Ukraine very much won't want to take a side here.

# ? Sep 25, 2019 18:33

skylined!: Apr 6, 2012; THE DEM DEFENDER HAS LOGGED ON

D-Pad posted:

I understand this won't happen, but if we did get a successful double impeachment/conviction and Pelosi became president what would happen with the primary? Traditionally, the incumbent automatically gets the nomination...

It would continue. If she was interested in the office she would have run, now or in the last 5 cycles.

# ? Sep 25, 2019 18:33

marshmonkey: Dec 5, 2003; I was sick of looking
at your stupid avatar
so
have a cool cat instead.; Switchblade Switcharoo

D-Pad posted:

I understand this won't happen, but if we did get a successful double impeachment/conviction and Pelosi became president what would happen with the primary? Traditionally, the incumbent automatically gets the nomination...

Pelosi would not be running for president. The primary would go ahead like normal.

# ? Sep 25, 2019 18:34

Flip Yr Wig: Feb 21, 2007; Oh please do go on; Fun Shoe

There aren't enough vulnerable Republicans to remove Trump from office, and he is far too popular with the party for it to be worth getting primaried just because he looks bad at the top of the ticket.

# ? Sep 25, 2019 18:34

Dapper_Swindler: Feb 14, 2012; Im glad my instant dislike in you has been validated again and again.

The Bloop posted:

Acquittal is the best case scenario we can hope for.

I hesitate to even put this thought into the world in writing but if McConnell et al were as savvy as they'd like to think, they might Ax trump immediately in an impeachment.

Now, everyone, you trump-hating centrists, gather 'round and circle the wagons for President Pence, we need to show him our American solidarity in this difficult time. He deserves the benefit of the doubt. He was always the steady hand on the wheel keeping Trump's excesses in line. The dignified return to normalcy. Jesus wants you to vote for him. Oh, and we can have an incumbent president on the ballot in 2020 AND 2024 because yes folks, he can be re-elected twice. All hail 10-year president Pence!

gently caress

Much better that an embarrassed, petulant Trump stays in office for an extra year and the Republicans look like unreasonable crooks that put party before country.

i don't think he will be convicted but lol if you think pence would win in 2020. he has no charisma and is a weird evangelical nut who no one really likes and the chuds are mostly in the tank for trump. he would lose in 2020 for various reasons. ford didn't win reelection.

Dapper_Swindler fucked around with this message at 18:37 on Sep 25, 2019

# ? Sep 25, 2019 18:34

an AOL chatroom: Oct 3, 2002

This aged well
https://twitter.com/adamcbest/status/1176898525365440512?s=20

# ? Sep 25, 2019 18:34

skylined!: Apr 6, 2012; THE DEM DEFENDER HAS LOGGED ON

I can't believe this Roger Stone thing has been going on for almost 75 years now.

https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/1176911756133883904

# ? Sep 25, 2019 18:34

Arist: Feb 13, 2012; _{who, me?}

I really don't think Mike Pence has any chance of winning a national election even ignoring the fact that replacing Trump would demoralize the base to an absurd degree.

# ? Sep 25, 2019 18:34

sean10mm: Jun 29, 2005; It's a Mad, Mad, Mad, MAD-2R World

The Bloop posted:

Acquittal is the best case scenario we can hope for.

I hesitate to even put this thought into the world in writing but if McConnell et al were as savvy as they'd like to think, they might Ax trump immediately in an impeachment.

Now, everyone, you trump-hating centrists, gather 'round and circle the wagons for President Pence, we need to show him our American solidarity in this difficult time. He deserves the benefit of the doubt. He was always the steady hand on the wheel keeping Trump's excesses in line. The dignified return to normalcy. Jesus wants you to vote for him. Oh, and we can have an incumbent president on the ballot in 2020 AND 2024 because yes folks, he can be re-elected twice. All hail 10-year president Pence!

gently caress

Much better that an embarrassed, petulant Trump stays in office for an extra year and the Republicans look like unreasonable crooks that put party before country.

Pence is actually an extremely inept politician, who joined the ticket because he was being run out of Indiana on a rail. This in spite of the fact that Indiana is basically every bad stereotype about the Deep South, but with cold weather, shittier food and higher KKK membership.

# ? Sep 25, 2019 18:35

theflyingorc: Jun 28, 2008; ANY GOOD OPINIONS THIS POSTER CLAIMS TO HAVE ARE JUST PROOF THAT BULLYING WORKS; Young Orc

D-Pad posted:

I understand this won't happen, but if we did get a successful double impeachment/conviction and Pelosi became president what would happen with the primary? Traditionally, the incumbent automatically gets the nomination...

The nominee is still whoever wins the primary. In this impossible scenario, the DNC would have a bunch of committee meetings and votes to try to figure out what to do. Most likely, they would move forward with the person who won the primary as normal, and Pelosi would simply retire at the end of her term as President.

But this is all fiction anyway.

skylined! posted:

It would continue. If she was interested in the office she would have run, now or in the last 5 cycles.

She hasn't run because she's probably the only woman more hated by the right than Hillary, it would be a huge boon to Republicans.

# ? Sep 25, 2019 18:35

Majorian: Jul 1, 2009

Arist posted:

I really don't think Mike Pence has any chance of winning a national election even ignoring the fact that replacing Trump would demoralize the base to an absurd degree.

I can imagine a scenario in which the media lauds him as "the fever breaking, the Republicans returning to normality," etc, but yeah - I doubt that will be enough in and of itself.

# ? Sep 25, 2019 18:36

evilweasel: Aug 24, 2002

https://twitter.com/BuzzFeedBen/status/1176912429911068672

# ? Sep 25, 2019 18:38

Flesh Forge: Jan 31, 2011; LET ME TELL YOU ABOUT MY DOG

Herstory Begins Now posted:

Literally zero chance pelosi becomes president out of this

yeah this was never going to happen, if by some miracle Trump is convicted in the senate then Pence will immediately select a new VP.

# ? Sep 25, 2019 18:39

Dapper_Swindler: Feb 14, 2012; Im glad my instant dislike in you has been validated again and again.

Majorian posted:

I can imagine a scenario in which the media lauds him as "the fever breaking, the Republicans returning to normality," etc, but yeah - I doubt that will be enough in and of itself.

ehh. idk. pence would push more social conservative poo poo and that doesnt fly that well anywhere outside the bible belt. its basicaly ford 2.0 but an evangelical.

# ? Sep 25, 2019 18:39

Dapper_Swindler: Feb 14, 2012; Im glad my instant dislike in you has been validated again and again.

evilweasel posted:

https://twitter.com/BuzzFeedBen/status/1176912429911068672

kinda same. it expected it to be bad but holy gently caress not that bad.

# ? Sep 25, 2019 18:39

evilweasel: Aug 24, 2002

Flesh Forge posted:

yeah this was never going to happen, if by some miracle Trump is convicted in the senate then Pence will immediately select a new VP.

the new VP must be approved by a majority of the House (and Senate, but in this situation the House matters more)

# ? Sep 25, 2019 18:39

BigBallChunkyTime: Nov 25, 2011; Kyle Schwarber: World Series hero, Beefy Lad, better than you.; Illegal Hen

https://twitter.com/jimsciutto/status/1176913068632264706?s=19

# ? Sep 25, 2019 18:40

funeral home DJ: Apr 21, 2003; Pillbug

theflyingorc posted:

It is hard for me to imagine a worse presidential candidate for right now than Mike Pence.

Agreed. The dude�s a religious nut job and has strong conservative chops (including literally shutting down clean needle programs to get at �them�) yet he is so strongly disliked that even Indiana was ready to toss his rear end out as governor had he stayed in the race in 2016.

The republicans would have more success running with a literal porkchop in a greasy old napkin.

# ? Sep 25, 2019 18:40

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# ? Jun 5, 2024 14:07

Angry_Ed: Mar 30, 2010; Grimey Drawer

evilweasel posted:

https://twitter.com/BuzzFeedBen/status/1176912429911068672

I mean, I think we're all feeling this way.

BigBallChunkyTime posted:

https://twitter.com/jimsciutto/status/1176913068632264706?s=19

I'm really not surprised by this, however. Of course Barr wouldn't recuse himself.

# ? Sep 25, 2019 18:40

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