Cerebral Bore posted:CC is opposed to left-wing goals, hth. It seems the California healthcare workers union are, too. None of this should be terribly surprising given the numerous discussions here and elsewhere on the ambiguity of what M4A means to people!!! Bernie, nice guy that he is, hasn't done a good job messaging the key differences in his plan relative to Warren and others in an attacking manner. Or they don't like the Bernie implementation or find the distinctions enough to justify switching their preference to Sanders.
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Sep 26, 2019 18:09
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a quick illustration that when people say there are no differences between warren and sanders, they are lying through their teeth https://twitter.com/JamesSurowiecki/status/1177242302185693184?s=20 https://twitter.com/JamesSurowiecki/status/1177244709628055553?s=20
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Sep 26, 2019 18:12
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Concerned Citizen posted:OK well there is not actually evidence that "they all demonstrably do" and the the one that "came out and admitted it" was a biden pollster making GBS threads on monmouth for releasing a poll that was bad for their client, joe biden, while engaging in a dramatic self-own in the process. also every other reputable pollster came out and said it was bad and dumb, but your position is basically they are lying and do it too which is completely baseless. quote:the bottom line is that we should try to take insights from polls, but we can do so with a healthy level of skepticism. polls differ in results based on methodology and sample, and we can't really say for certain who is correct and who isn't. the race will also change and people will change their minds. but dismissing them outright is just burying your head in the sand twodot fucked around with this message at 18:19 on Sep 26, 2019 |
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Sep 26, 2019 18:12
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Condiv posted:a quick illustration that when people say there are no differences between warren and sanders, they are lying through their teeth All the people who said “idiot centrist blue blood media cretins wiith a bias against Bernie don’t exist” in this thread are owned! Thanks for the contribution!
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Sep 26, 2019 18:21
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Civilized Fishbot posted:I hate to derail this uh conversation, but I just wanted to share this fun little story about how Elizabeth Warren's great-grandfather, who she said was Native American, was actually more a white guy who shot a Native American, maybe to death, while he was trying to run away. So i guess that's what started all this confusion. I haven't seen this shown anywhere and I figure we will hear more about this on some future date quote:Louis Yaholar, a drunker Indian, was on his way home from Wetumka, when he overtook several white boys whom he commenced to belabor with his lariat. One of the boys was riding an unruly horse and he could not escape so was severely beaten by the drunker Indian. John H. Crawford, father of the boy, came upon the scene with a rifle and fired at Yaholar, the ball passing through him, inflicting a wound that may prove fatal. quote:The Indian put spurs to his horse and escaped, but the white man was a good shot and the bullet from his Winchester passed through the body of Yaholar. It's striking that this journalism from more than 100 years ago already has the distinctive passive sentence constructions that get used in every "office involved shooting" or kinetic action by an American friendly government.
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Sep 26, 2019 18:21
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TrixR4kids posted:Actually if anything this is what's frustrating about Yang supporters, they understand that automation is a problem but they're hyperfocused on that single tip of the iceberg and don't seem to get that the problems with capitalism go far beyond that or that human centered capitalism is an oxymoron. I don't see how demanding human centered capitalism is 'not getting the problems of capitalism'. It's very much demanding to fix exactly that. The issues is the approach. Bernie wants to be able to tell corperations what to do , and Yang wants to incentivise them into bring better. The end goal is exactly the same and only the path there differs. Why is it frustrating that Yang supporters agree on the fundamentals but disagree on how to arrive there? As for their approaches, I think Bernie's sounds better, but Yangs will be more successful in the end. Changing businesses too want to reach goals besides quarterly profits at the expense of literally everything else is where the problem lies, not that capitalism itself in inherently evil
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Sep 26, 2019 18:21
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Condiv posted:a quick illustration that when people say there are no differences between warren and sanders, they are lying through their teeth The people pushing the "no difference" line are people who have nothing but contempt for the public at large. They know they are lying through their teeth, but they have this view that the public are just rubes that need to be lied to, because they don't understand the realities of Washington. This becomes obvious when you ask the follow up question of "if they are so similar, why is elizabeth warren running, instead of supporting the person who had a built in advantage at the time the campaign started?" Where the answer is one of two things: - Silence - A mixture of "Warren knows how to work with the system," "Warren is better at making the necessary compromise with Washington to govern," "Bernie's proposals are unrealistic" or "Warren can create a broader coalition in Washington." All of which are thinly coded ways of saying "she's not really going to do the things she is promising."
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Sep 26, 2019 18:25
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how does this guy get jacked with such dogshit form. this might be worst than don jr's lift. https://twitter.com/JohnDelaney/status/1109868212793950208
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Sep 26, 2019 18:27
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Groovelord Neato posted:how does this guy get jacked with such dogshit form. this might be worst than don jr's lift.
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Sep 26, 2019 18:31
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roids aren't magic you still gotta do the lifts! junior for comparison: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIhAlmHA2ZA
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Sep 26, 2019 18:32
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User0015 posted:I don't see how demanding human centered capitalism is 'not getting the problems of capitalism'. Congrats you fundamentally do not understand how capitalism works
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Sep 26, 2019 18:34
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User0015 posted:I don't see how demanding human centered capitalism is 'not getting the problems of capitalism'. It's very much demanding to fix exactly that. The problem of capitalism is that it is designed from the bottom-up to not be human-centered, or humane. It is currently operating exactly as it is supposed to. quote:As for their approaches, I think Bernie's sounds better, but Yangs will be more successful in the end. A UBI that comes with massive slashes to social safety net programs is not going to be successful or humane, sorry dude.
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Sep 26, 2019 18:37
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Groovelord Neato posted:roids aren't magic you still gotta do the lifts! No true lol, a person taking roids and not training will gain more muscle than a person training without roids, just not as much as a person taking roids AND lifting. Hormones are crazy
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Sep 26, 2019 18:38
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Terror Sweat posted:No true lol, a person taking roids and not training will gain more muscle than a person training without roids, just not as much as a person taking roids AND lifting. Hormones are crazy will they get actually jacked without lifting?
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Sep 26, 2019 18:39
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Condiv posted:a quick illustration that when people say there are no differences between warren and sanders, they are lying through their teeth Literally the exact same rhetoric that the Hillmen deployed last time around. Anyone remember how that turned out?
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Sep 26, 2019 18:40
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User0015 posted:I don't see how demanding human centered capitalism is 'not getting the problems of capitalism'. It's very much demanding to fix exactly that. quote:quarterly profits at the expense of literally everything else
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Sep 26, 2019 18:44
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Cerebral Bore posted:Literally the exact same rhetoric that the Hillmen deployed last time around. Anyone remember how that turned out? Hilldawg winning the popular vote before THAT OLD MAN BERNARD WHO ISN'T EVEN A DEMOCRAT stabbed her in the back.
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Sep 26, 2019 18:44
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User0015 posted:I don't see how demanding human centered capitalism is 'not getting the problems of capitalism'. It's very much demanding to fix exactly that. You cannot "incentivize businesses into being better". That was the theory behind PPACA, if we strike a deal with businesses to give them an eternal guarantee to a handsome profit and in exchange they stop being hilariously evil monsters killing people for some extra profit margin, then they'll have an incentive to abide by the deal in order to keep the public satisfied with the current reforms so they won't demand single-payer. That was their incentive, accept lower but still healthy quarterly profits in the short term, in order to guarantee you'll keep receiving them in the long-term instead of being abolished and profit falling to zero. Did that work, lol no, every single insurance company immediately did everything they could to burn down the system and make the public hate PPACA in order to squeeze an extra half-percent quarterly profit, and here we are debating getting rid of them completely. So I'm pretty skeptical when someone says they can "incentivize" entities which according to the basic theory of capitalist economics are created with the sole purpose of maximizing return on invested capital to...not do that. Can you point to any Yang proposal to actually incentivize them and explain how it would work, or is it just fluff that he says on the campaign trail. VitalSigns fucked around with this message at 18:49 on Sep 26, 2019 |
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Sep 26, 2019 18:47
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User0015 posted:I don't see how demanding human centered capitalism is 'not getting the problems of capitalism'. It's very much demanding to fix exactly that. quote:The issues is the approach. Bernie wants to be able to tell corperations what to do , and Yang wants to incentivise them into bring better. The end goal is exactly the same and only the path there differs. Why is it frustrating that Yang supporters agree on the fundamentals but disagree on how to arrive there? quote:As for their approaches, I think Bernie's sounds better, but Yangs will be more successful in the end. Changing businesses too want to reach goals besides quarterly profits at the expense of literally everything else is where the problem lies, not that capitalism itself in inherently evil
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Sep 26, 2019 18:48
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User0015 posted:I don't see how demanding human centered capitalism is 'not getting the problems of capitalism'. It's very much demanding to fix exactly that. The problem with the idea that capitalism just needs to voluntarily be more generous is that "profit beats all" is the fundamental nature of capitalism. Companies that voluntarily treat people better will make less profit (if it was more profitable to treat people better, they'd be doing it already). That less profit means that they'll have less money to invest into expanding and streamlining their operations than their competitors do, which in turn means that the gap in profits will widen even further and further until the less-ethical company starts gobbling up the market share of the more-ethical company. Capitalism is a race toward wherever the optimal profit margin leads, and these days, that mostly leads to the bottom of the barrel because most people are poor. The only ways to get industries to reduce their profitability for the sake of treating people better are by changing the profitability math, which is traditionally done by having the government lay down a hard rule and promising massive penalties to any company that doesn't follow that rule. Yang's counter-proposal talks about changing the profitability math in a different way: by introducing a convoluted system to arbitrarily reward companies with bribes if they're deemed to be acting in a socially good way. And that's something he clearly hasn't thought through at all - I looked for details and all I can find, even from r/YangForPresident, is a bunch of buzzwordy handwaving that makes it clear he doesn't have an answer to basic questions like "who would decide who gets these social credit points" and "how will each person's number of social credit points be tracked".
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Sep 26, 2019 19:03
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Main Paineframe posted:"profit beats all" is the fundamental nature of capitalism. The funniest part to me is that traditionally sustained profit is considered the signal for a market failure and free market capitalism is actually supposed to eliminate , or at least minimize, profit earned. Which is obviously a problem when, as you say, the way the system is designed is to maximize that failure.
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Sep 26, 2019 19:10
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https://twitter.com/SenWarren/status/625744496911872000?s=20 https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1985-02-16-me-2930-story.html An actual scientist under reagan posted:As a scientist involved in biomedical research, I am outraged at the priorities apparent in President Reagan’s proposed budget. Pentagon research and development is to be increased by 19% after inflation. In contrast, in a little publicized maneuver, the Reagan Administration has reduced the number of biomedical research grants to be funded this year by 23%, by exploiting a loophole in the appropriations already approved by Congress for the National Institutes of Health (NIH). Condiv fucked around with this message at 19:20 on Sep 26, 2019 |
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Sep 26, 2019 19:10
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Straight up Pentagonism.
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Sep 26, 2019 19:17
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We don't need a Green Energy economy. We need a DEATH RAY ENERGY economy.
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Sep 26, 2019 19:23
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Condiv posted:a quick illustration that when people say there are no differences between warren and sanders, they are lying through their teeth Lol he called it "executive ability" instead of "executive experience" because he knows that Bernie was a mayor and Elizabeth has never run a staff larger than half a dozen people before this campaign.
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Sep 26, 2019 19:43
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Brony Car posted:We don't need a Green Energy economy. We need a DEATH RAY ENERGY economy. 
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Sep 26, 2019 19:54
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User0015 posted:I don't see how demanding human centered capitalism is 'not getting the problems of capitalism'. It's very much demanding to fix exactly that. yes, capitalism is inherently evil, making your whole post wrong
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Sep 26, 2019 19:54
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Condiv posted:a quick illustration that when people say there are no differences between warren and sanders, they are lying through their teeth the wisdom of the crowd (ratio) is proving this dude sucks
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Sep 26, 2019 20:16
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Spiciest take of the day (and perhaps the whole month), folks: https://twitter.com/CarlBeijer/status/1177297951741399040
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Sep 26, 2019 20:27
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Nah spiciest of the month was the person calling Brie a cum dumpster.
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Sep 26, 2019 20:29
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Oh Snapple! posted:Nah spiciest of the month was the person calling Brie a cum dumpster. Oooh, I had already forgotten about that one. Okay, this one wins for today though. "Light criticism of my preferred candidate is tantamount to rape" is some real peak liberalism.
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Sep 26, 2019 20:35
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Majorian posted:Oooh, I had already forgotten about that one. Am I missing something here? Is that what the tweet is saying?
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Sep 26, 2019 20:41
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HootTheOwl posted:Am I missing something here? Is that what the tweet is saying?
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Sep 26, 2019 20:43
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HootTheOwl posted:Am I missing something here? Is that what the tweet is saying? The screencapped one from Feminazgul, yeah. e: the hits keep coming! https://twitter.com/KDavisGayFriend/status/1177296420430393345 I'm beginning to think the weaponization of identity politics by the establishment was...maybe not the best thing? Majorian fucked around with this message at 20:49 on Sep 26, 2019 |
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Sep 26, 2019 20:43
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Majorian posted:The screencapped one from Feminazgul, yeah. Oh! The thumbnail cut that part off so it looked like she was just emptyquoting the first tweet.
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Sep 26, 2019 20:47
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Where is Yang on M4A? His website says he supports it, but I don't know if he's weaseled on that. Domistically M4A and a small, lovely UBI would probably be better than the existing safety net. Nobody ever really talks about anything with Yang besides his "freedom dividend"
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Sep 26, 2019 20:54
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Hellblazer187 posted:Where is Yang on M4A? His website says he supports it, but I don't know if he's weaseled on that. Domistically M4A and a small, lovely UBI would probably be better than the existing safety net. Nobody ever really talks about anything with Yang besides his "freedom dividend" He wants "M4A with private insurance," which means he's not for M4A.
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Sep 26, 2019 20:56
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Majorian posted:He wants "M4A with private insurance," which means he's not for M4A. OK. His website does talk about the government directly setting prices for medical services, but gives little detail on how he'd implement it.
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Sep 26, 2019 20:58
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https://twitter.com/wcax/status/1177307525412282374?s=20
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Sep 26, 2019 21:06
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Sally Albright's plan has finally come to fruition!
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Sep 26, 2019 21:13
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