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TheOneAndOnlyT posted:The Senate will never vote to remove Trump from office. He practically never ever admits failure or a mistake, even the famous Grab Em By The Pussy apology tape he made during the election was something his handlers barely convinced him to do and he later recanted. I am very sure he will ride this all the way down. 
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Sep 26, 2019 22:53
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The republican playbook for men doing bad stuff is to get really angry and insult people. White men from lovely parts of America eat it up and say “wow he’s so angry he must be telling the truth.”
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Sep 26, 2019 22:54
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skylined! posted:Hey just a reminder it's good to keep the pressure on when your attacks are working. If you live in a lovely red state with lovely red senators who claim they suddenly can't read or have more important things to do like hock ether to pre-teens on behalf of their donors, call and email their offices asking why the gently caress they are refusing to do their duty as elected officials to hold the executive branch accountable. This applies to your blue state reps too! Tell them to turn up the loving heat and go for the throat!
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Sep 26, 2019 22:55
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Rabble posted:Haha I’m still at least 75% convinced that Putin manipulated Trump into believing that Biden stole money from Ukraine. That Trump honestly thinks he’s doing the country a favor by “exposing” such an obviously false story. And that Trump blundered his way into extorting Ukraine in a way that makes it look like he’s trying to dig up dirt on his political rivals. thats kinda my guess. that or he learned if from some dumb chud poo poo. maybe fox.
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Sep 26, 2019 22:56
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Blurred posted:This is really among the most damning facts of this whole scandal (the fact that they moved not just the Zelinskyy phone calls to this ultra-secure server, but phone calls with other heads of state as well) and this is really something that needs to be pressed further. I was wondering whether such data would be accessible and by whom, or whether it can just be buried forever as something so top-secret that no-one will ever get the clearance to view it, much less release it to the public. From reading that article, it seems like even NSC officials have no idea about this. If it turns out there's no practical way to get at what's on the server, then the over-classification of these transcripts has to be viewed as a criminal conspiracy in itself - i.e. deliberately hiding information that might be damaging to the nation - and ought to be publicly presented that way. I think you're reading too much into it. Trump was PISSED his private convos with Australia and Mexico were leaked (because it showed him lying about what was talked about and made him look like the buffoon he is) and so his staff's kneejerk reaction was 'ok fine from now on we put all the call transcripts into the super secure lockbox so noone can leak embarrassing poo poo anymore without being caught dead to rights problem solved' without considering the implications. Later when told they couldn't do that (because I'm sure at some point someone needed to access the call transcripts and couldn't find them in the usual place and they got proudly told they'd been put on the Super Top Secret Hard to Access Everything's Logged Server at which point said career deep state person promptly huffed into a paper bag for five minutes then said 'uh no') they decided they'd only put the REALLY BAD stuff there, because Trump only hires The Best People, and by that time anyone with any loving sense had quit/been driven out. That still doesn't preclude the securing of the communications on the server as a criminal conspiracy, it absolutely is according to what we read in the memo. They said 'poo poo this is bad, let's hide it' then did. But its second hand info which means we are going to see a flurry of subpoenas for Trump White House staff, Guiliani and probably Barr also. poo poo's gonna get WILD. I would also guess the stuff isn't inaccessible, at the very least whoever administers the access levels on the server will be able to give them to whoever subpoenas them, god knows the Trump admin has noone that competent on the payroll and no government IT stooge is gonna risk their job to protect this band of jackasses.
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Sep 26, 2019 22:57
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Rabble posted:Haha I’m still at least 75% convinced that Putin manipulated Trump into believing that Biden stole money from Ukraine. That Trump honestly thinks he’s doing the country a favor by “exposing” such an obviously false story. And that Trump blundered his way into extorting Ukraine in a way that makes it look like he’s trying to dig up dirt on his political rivals. Please stop doing this dumb poo poo. I mean every loving time he does some dumb poo poo, people have these same dumb thoughts.
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Sep 26, 2019 22:58
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mod sassinator posted:Oh yeah I'm right there with you--I actually sat down and tried to think, who are my male role models as a man in 2019. It was really loving hard to think of anybody. And it kinda hurt a bit when I realized most of the folks I looked up to in the past are dead... some by their own hand. Kinda hosed up when your role models are folks like Robin Williams, Prince, Anthony Bourdain, etc. I think folks like Obama maybe, but killing hundreds of people with drone strikes is kinda not a cool look my dude.
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Sep 26, 2019 22:58
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Dog Friday posted:Can we assume the odds of the Republicans in the Senate voting to impeach are absolutely zero? So then the end game in all this is to make them shoot it down and have that over their heads come elections? I've been thinking about this, like just in general, what would get the Republicans to turn on Trump. And now I think it can be way more specific, but basically I imagine if there's some polling that comes out that suggests that they would a) lose the senate in 2020 by sticking with trump AND b) they would retain the senate by dumping him, then they would remove him from office. But I don't think that's possible. Like if it swings in such a way that it's just week after week of insane poo poo and coverups, like a worst-case scenario for Trump (Scenario A). Let's say that there's something absolutely nuts like 40-50% support for removal by Republicans. I still don't see them doing it. Because there's 35% of the population who think Trump is the chosen one, and thus would not vote for a Senator who turned his back on him. It's kind of the damned if you do damned if you don't situation that a lot of Congressional Republicans have found themselves in. I mean, maybe they say 'you know what, I had a good run, I'll do it for the good of the Republic' but that is wishful thinking at best. Were removal to happen it would probably start with someone like Romney and then cascade from there. 50% chance of removal on this end. Of course, if it goes other way, and this is just about as bad as it gets, and it all just reverts back to the mean (Scenario B) then yeah, the right move is to vote party line. 0.001% chance of removal. If we take something sort of in the middle, somewhat bad and sticky for Trump, I guess it would still be party line, and I don't think it would scare off major donors either. 5% chance of removal but it would probably be because the bottom falls out of the economy. However, I would imagine that Scenario A would mean he wouldn't get elected but who the gently caress knows. I honestly don't think he'll live through impeachment. And I mean that completely seriously and I do not want it to happen.
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Sep 26, 2019 22:59
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Oracle posted:I think you're reading too much into it. Trump was PISSED his private convos with Australia and Mexico were leaked (because it showed him lying about what was talked about and made him look like the buffoon he is) and so his staff's kneejerk reaction was 'ok fine from now on we put all the call transcripts into the super secure lockbox so noone can leak embarrassing poo poo anymore without being caught dead to rights problem solved' without considering the implications. Later when told they couldn't do that (because I'm sure at some point someone needed to access the call transcripts and couldn't find them in the usual place and they got proudly told they'd been put on the Super Top Secret Hard to Access Everything's Logged Server at which point said career deep state person promptly huffed into a paper bag for five minutes then said 'uh no') they decided they'd only put the REALLY BAD stuff there, because Trump only hires The Best People, and by that time anyone with any loving sense had quit/been driven out. i mean if its being kept by the IC, i think the house/public may see it at some point.
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Sep 26, 2019 22:59
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Mahoning posted:I don’t think it’s zero. We’re at an insanely low nonzero number, but it is not zero. I've never seen the GOP so scared, the only time that comes close was the few months of chaos after Obama won re-election in 2012 when the crazies won out, but that was just GOP infighting. This scandal is different. Normally they are very good at getting a narrative out, and using their enormous RWM apparatus to spin the narrative until it turns to their advantage. However everything I've seen in the last 24-48 hours has just been flailing. Outside of Lindsay Graham being the worlds biggest bootlicker and Nunes being Nunes, it's silence. Even a few of the mode "moderate" ones are cracking a little. I realize it's the Trump era and who the gently caress knows what will happen, but this feels like uncharted territory where, for the first time, the Democrats have the narrative and the media on their side.
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Sep 26, 2019 22:59
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awesmoe posted:T B H, given this administration's justified paranoia about leaks and the embarrassment that they've had when these head-of-state calls do get leaked (eg the aussie one way back at the start), i can see them just doing whatever the gently caress they could think of to lock it all down. I dont think it has to be a coverup of criminality, i think it could be a coverup of embarrassing dumb poo poo. You might well be right, but the absolute best way of interpreting that is that they were abusing national security protocol for political gain. But in cases like this, where the president is acting in a deliberate way to cover-up his interactions with foreign leaders such that not even top-ranking national security or intelligence people have any access to it, I think it's justifiable to interpret it - in the absence of any evidence to the contrary - as a worst case scenario, as a malicious conspiracy, even if we have no particular reason to believe that anything criminal is contained there. I obviously have no idea what the law has to say about cases like this (probably very little), but congress should be prosecuting this with the assumption that such a conspiracy is impeachable in itself, unless the admin is capable of demonstrating otherwise (e.g. credibly explaining why the calls needed to be classified as super top-secret, or providing proof that they contain nothing untoward). Blurred fucked around with this message at 23:05 on Sep 26, 2019 |
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Sep 26, 2019 22:59
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AmiYumi posted:Everyone missing the most obvious and poetic answer: tacitly promise him the loving moon, then absolutely refuse to uphold your end of the agreement. The problem is that if you do that, you'll never be able to get another despotic shithead to go away without violence. It sucks but ultimately it's better to let one of them live than to have the next commit murder suicide of their entire population to avoid Qaddafi's fate. It sucks on the cathartic level but being true to your word pays off in the long run because you have credibility that your word actually means something and people will trust you. Seriously it's one of the most damaging things Trump has done to the United States by tearing up treaties on a whim. It's why even poo poo Republican Presidents stayed true to treaties worked out by Democrats in the past, now no other country will trust the United States because they'll know that we're one hosed up election from chaos.
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Sep 26, 2019 23:00
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Solaris 2.0 posted:I've never seen the GOP so scared, the only time that comes close was the few months of chaos after Obama won re-election in 2012 when the crazies won out, but that was just GOP infighting.
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Sep 26, 2019 23:00
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Rabble posted:Haha I’m still at least 75% convinced that Putin manipulated Trump into believing that Biden stole money from Ukraine. That Trump honestly thinks he’s doing the country a favor by “exposing” such an obviously false story. And that Trump blundered his way into extorting Ukraine in a way that makes it look like he’s trying to dig up dirt on his political rivals. It may be sadder than that: the whistleblower write up suggests he may have been convinced by the just-fired-cause-a-new-president-got-elected Ukrainian A.G... who was going to investigate that bastard Joe Biden pressuring people to, uhm, fire his predecessor (which got him the job!), if the US pressures the incoming Ukrainian president to let him keep his job. If that's actually the case, I sure hope he faces some sort of treason charges in Ukraine, because that's Trump-level selfishness.
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Sep 26, 2019 23:00
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Solaris 2.0 posted:I've never seen the GOP so scared, the only time that comes close was the few months of chaos after Obama won re-election in 2012 when the crazies won out, but that was just GOP infighting. Sure, if you're not fully embedded into Breitbart and Fox News, it probably seems like the Democrats are very clearly not in the wrong here. But that's all conservatives watch.
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Sep 26, 2019 23:00
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Tatsuta Age posted:Sure, if you're not fully embedded into Breitbart and Fox News, it probably seems like the Democrats are very clearly not in the wrong here. But that's all conservatives watch. About that. https://twitter.com/gabrielsherman/status/1177340474262216706
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Sep 26, 2019 23:01
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imagine being so scared of your pathetic fuckin interactions with foreign leaders to get leaked that you use operation overlord levels of classification on them what a loving sensitive baby
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Sep 26, 2019 23:01
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Trump put his MY CRIMES documents that he's desperate to destroy in the one computer system on Earth where you can't run a loving spell check without leaving an audit trail, never mind pull a WHOOPS WHERE COULD THEY HAVE GONE, OH WELL! on them. It's also airgapped and undoubtedly has redundant backups of everything. If he ordered it deleted and the order was followed, down to all the backups, there would be an audit trail whether the user wanted it or not of the exact event with a timestamp. Classifying them hid them from ROUTINE searches for them by reporters or whatever. Congressional intel committees can see any loving thing they want (they read the whistleblower report when it was still classified TOP SECRET/SPECIAL COMPARTMENTED INFORMATION/WXYZ, the classification doesn't mean poo poo to them.)
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Sep 26, 2019 23:03
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OddObserver posted:It may be sadder than that: the whistleblower write up suggests he may have been convinced by the just-fired-cause-a-new-president-got-elected Ukrainian A.G... who was going to investigate that bastard Joe Biden That’s pretty plausible too, honestly
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Sep 26, 2019 23:03
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Alright another day and it's still looking like there's still no unified message coming from the GOP. The only thing I'm seeing across message boards and on the air is Biden failson whataboutism and HOW DARE YOU DIVIDE THE COUNTRY and neither are sticking at all. They've always had access to information beforehand, which they do now as well, and you could always see them prepping the airwaves for whatever was coming next. None of that is happening this time.
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Sep 26, 2019 23:04
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Solaris 2.0 posted:I've never seen the GOP so scared, the only time that comes close was the few months of chaos after Obama won re-election in 2012 when the crazies won out, but that was just GOP infighting. i think the party does sorta have a narrative, you saw it with nunes and other House chuds. but i think the smarter house chuds and the senate GOP realize that the house of cards is gonna crash down at some point. and now is that point. who knows what will happen but i feel like this might be different. also rudy is basically screaming and going nuts and will probably spill most of the stuff out at some point.
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Sep 26, 2019 23:04
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Solaris 2.0 posted:I've never seen the GOP so scared, the only time that comes close was the few months of chaos after Obama won re-election in 2012 when the crazies won out, but that was just GOP infighting. yea I've kinda had background noise Fox on while I've been working, because just gently caress me up I guess and while they've had plenty of people happy to go 'actually this was nothing Trump is right and if anything Biden's going to jail owned libs' very few of them were...republican lawmakers...I think I saw a couple reps doing generic 'well impeachment in general is bad and the dems are just angry for nothing' but I saw almost no actual republican lawmakers/party officials saying the same thing the news idiots were saying like usually happens.
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Sep 26, 2019 23:06
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Herstory Begins Now posted:imagine being so scared of your pathetic fuckin interactions with foreign leaders to get leaked that you use operation overlord levels of classification on them seriously it's so weird. He must have known he said some insane poo poo, not even 'bad' like his Ukraine shakedown but just bonkers nonsense he read on 8chan or something
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Sep 26, 2019 23:08
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I think they're starting to panic https://twitter.com/TheOnion/status/1177343605993803777
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Sep 26, 2019 23:08
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Dapper_Swindler posted:i think the party does sorta have a narrative, you saw it with nunes and other House chuds. but i think the smarter house chuds and the senate GOP realize that the house of cards is gonna crash down at some point. and now is that point. who knows what will happen but i feel like this might be different. also rudy is basically screaming and going nuts and will probably spill most of the stuff out at some point. hes going to bomb something to distract from this. They can't spin it so they will try to distract people.
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Sep 26, 2019 23:09
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https://twitter.com/LindseyGrahamSC/status/1177319353198551040 This fucker is scared. He may act like everything is fine, but he knows that the Trump and the GOP are hosed. Remember when he randomly shouted at Democrats that they weren't going to take his job? https://twitter.com/tpetruno/status/1157027320084889600 He's so loving pathetic
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Sep 26, 2019 23:09
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sexpig by night posted:yea I've kinda had background noise Fox on while I've been working, because just gently caress me up I guess and while they've had plenty of people happy to go 'actually this was nothing Trump is right and if anything Biden's going to jail owned libs' very few of them were...republican lawmakers...I think I saw a couple reps doing generic 'well impeachment in general is bad and the dems are just angry for nothing' but I saw almost no actual republican lawmakers/party officials saying the same thing the news idiots were saying like usually happens. yeah, i notices that on CNN. all the GOP lawmakers that have come on have made angry grumblings but nothing real and nothing really defending him.
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Sep 26, 2019 23:09
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TulliusCicero posted:How does she keep her job? She explodes about everything, knows nothing about the matters at hand, screams at the audience, and is just generally the most unpleasant person I have ever seen That's good Ratings!
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Sep 26, 2019 23:09
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sexpig by night posted:seriously it's so weird. He must have known he said some insane poo poo, not even 'bad' like his Ukraine shakedown but just bonkers nonsense he read on 8chan or something iirc there's been more than one call with putin where the official WH description was like "they discussed x" and the kremlin PR release was like "they discussed x, y, and the ukraine" wouldn't be surprised at all if there's awful poo poo (even if not crimes) in the various convos with Putin
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Sep 26, 2019 23:11
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Basically the only high ranking republicans I've seen running to Trump's side has been Nunes and McCarthy doing their dumbass things, I think Mitt and ol dickless Steve have been pretty quiet on this.
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Sep 26, 2019 23:11
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Internally, the GOP is showing every indication Trump is being left to deal with this himself. The real indicator will be how many members make mumblings of "I'm waiting to see the results of the investigation" after recess.
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Sep 26, 2019 23:11
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https://twitter.com/dumbassgenius/status/1177306430614884352
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Sep 26, 2019 23:12
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Willo567 posted:https://twitter.com/LindseyGrahamSC/status/1177319353198551040 yeah, i think he knows this gravy train is about to derail. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VsiKOJOXMJU this but its mccain about to drag him to hell.
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Sep 26, 2019 23:12
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Willo567 posted:https://twitter.com/LindseyGrahamSC/status/1177319353198551040  is he trying to remind everyone of Presidential Sharpie Time?
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Sep 26, 2019 23:13
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Magugu posted:So hes willing to throw the second amendment people under the bus to save himself. Classic Donny! I hope they make a big deal out of this. Tell his base that he was going to trade gun regulations to have Democrats stop impeachment.
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Sep 26, 2019 23:14
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Dapper_Swindler posted:i think the party does sorta have a narrative, you saw it with nunes and other House chuds. but i think the smarter house chuds and the senate GOP realize that the house of cards is gonna crash down at some point. and now is that point. who knows what will happen but i feel like this might be different. also rudy is basically screaming and going nuts and will probably spill most of the stuff out at some point. They have talking points but it's not a narrative until people not named graham or nunes start treating it seriously
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Sep 26, 2019 23:16
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What if they find something unbelievably incriminating, even more than we would expect? What if they crack open the classified server and there's phone conversations between Trump, Putin and McConnell strategizing about how to beat the Mueller report?
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Sep 26, 2019 23:17
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You know I hadn't at all considered this possibility at all, since FOX was invented specifically for this scenario. But if they are scrambling and don't know what to do and are wondering if they should cut bait...that changes the calculus a little. FOX abandoning Trump would be the one thing that could make it possible for Trump to be actually removed. Like, rationally I know it almost certainly won't happen still, but if FOX is scrambling this bad, when the reason they exist is specifically to be able to defend GOP presidents from impeachment...it does make it feel like almost anything's possible now.
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Sep 26, 2019 23:18
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Fraction Jackson posted:You know I hadn't at all considered this possibility at all, since FOX was invented specifically for this scenario. But if they are scrambling and don't know what to do and are wondering if they should cut bait...that changes the calculus a little. FOX abandoning Trump would be the one thing that could make it possible for Trump to be actually removed. I genuinely hope Alies is in hell screaming seeing that his creation literally made exactly for this situation is melting down right when it's needed. You built a lovely, evil, MegaZord and none of the dinosaurs are clicking together.
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Sep 26, 2019 23:21
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sexpig by night posted:seriously it's so weird. He must have known he said some insane poo poo, not even 'bad' like his Ukraine shakedown but just bonkers nonsense he read on 8chan or something
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