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twice burned ice posted:Did you really just describe Pence as competent yeah, I did. If Trump hypothetically listened to him every morning and dutifully followed all of his advice, there would now be far fewer scandals and not a chance in hell he'd be impeached. I mean, you got to grade it on a curve, I said "only", not "very". In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king. (Except in this case we have a fat orange blind guy who occasionally slaps him, yells at him to shut up, and says "we're taking this other path, he doesn't know where he's going!") Rigel fucked around with this message at 16:16 on Sep 27, 2019 |
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Sep 27, 2019 16:14
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Fritz Coldcockin posted:They do not have a war room; there was an article yesterday that said as much. Trump is doing nothing to prepare for this, much like everything else in his life.
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Sep 27, 2019 16:15
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PT6A posted:Calling your wife "mother" is still creepy af even if you're around a bunch of conservative dinosaurs I guess. https://twitter.com/scottbix/status/1177594279629348869
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Sep 27, 2019 16:16
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I've been wondering how much Mitch's fractured shoulder from losing a fight with his floor is hampering the Senate Republicans here since for all we know, he's taking a lot of medications for pain.
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Sep 27, 2019 16:17
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FlamingLiberal posted:It’s worked for him so far in his life, so I can’t really blame him
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Sep 27, 2019 16:17
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Pence at least listens to what the big money donors to the GOP want him to do. Those people at least have some sort of coherent strategic vision even if it's poo poo for everyone but them.
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Sep 27, 2019 16:17
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Mooseontheloose posted:To expand, how do you defend: It's not a bribe. The money had already been raised for Ukraine and was withheld. The word you're looking for is extortion.
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Sep 27, 2019 16:18
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CommieGIR posted:https://twitter.com/NPR/status/1177586199973781504?s=20 
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Sep 27, 2019 16:19
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Rigel posted:lol, this is absolutely false for at least 1/3 to 1/2 the GOP in the Senate. (Less so for the gerrymandered house). They loving hate Trump for putting themselves in danger while forcing them to defend someone they feel is well beneath them. They are forced to hold a rictus grin while standing next to him hoping they don't get primaried. This. Most of the establishment GOP would throw Trump under the nearest bus as soon as they could. He puts them in the worst possible position constantly: back Trump to the hilt and galvanize the democrats to vote your rear end out, or try to take even a slightly moderate position and get primaried by a Trumpist lunatic on the right. As we saw in 2018, support for Trump does not equal support for the GOP. Many Trumpists are all in for him and him alone, and the rest of the GOP gets hung out to dry because they are all "RINOs". I could very well see the establishment GOP turning on Trump if they see a good way of finally blasting him out of the airlock
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Sep 27, 2019 16:19
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So an impeachment inquiry has more "teeth" right? Rudy can't just cross his arms and say "nuh-uh", he can be held in contempt or arrested if he doesn't show up?
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Sep 27, 2019 16:20
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Ice Phisherman posted:It's not a bribe. The money had already been raised for Ukraine and was withheld. The word you're looking for is extortion. Not only that but it wasn’t discretionary funding either. This was money that congress specifically said to give to Ukraine. So not only did Trump extort a foreign nation but he broke as many rules as he could along the way.
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Sep 27, 2019 16:21
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Rigel posted:yeah, I did. If Trump hypothetically listened to him every morning and dutifully followed all of his advice, there would now be far fewer scandals and not a chance in hell he'd be impeached. I'll give you that point. The absolute best you could paint Pence would be as a brainless, spineless toady willing to do whatever the GOP/Donors tell him too.
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Sep 27, 2019 16:22
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Snuffman posted:So an impeachment inquiry has more "teeth" right? Rudy can't just cross his arms and say "nuh-uh", he can be held in contempt or arrested if he doesn't show up? Pretty sure that arrests are still difficult, they can just easily fine the hell out of him To the tune of tens of thousands per day off they wish
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Sep 27, 2019 16:23
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Snuffman posted:So an impeachment inquiry has more "teeth" right? Rudy can't just cross his arms and say "nuh-uh", he can be held in contempt or arrested if he doesn't show up? How the House and the courts respond to the inevitable stonewalling and refusals to even show up will determine how everything goes (more so than the stonewalling and refusals to show up so far). The law is clear, but that doesn't mean so much anymore.
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Sep 27, 2019 16:23
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Snuffman posted:So an impeachment inquiry has more "teeth" right? Rudy can't just cross his arms and say "nuh-uh", he can be held in contempt or arrested if he doesn't show up? Technically no, congress always had those powers and never bothered to use them. Actually yes, because the stakes mean if congress doesn't enforce their ability to hold witnesses in contempt for impeachment they've ceded all investigative power forever.
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Sep 27, 2019 16:23
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Snuffman posted:So an impeachment inquiry has more "teeth" right? Rudy can't just cross his arms and say "nuh-uh", he can be held in contempt or arrested if he doesn't show up? My understanding is that is give the House more weight in the inevitable court battle. A subpoena as part of an impeachment inquiry has better legal backing.
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Sep 27, 2019 16:24
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Snuffman posted:So an impeachment inquiry has more "teeth" right? Rudy can't just cross his arms and say "nuh-uh", he can be held in contempt or arrested if he doesn't show up? Rudy can’t help but talk.
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Sep 27, 2019 16:25
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friendbot2000 posted:https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1177579380819845120 Ahhh the attempt-to-start-a-civil-war-before-they-impeach-you strat
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Sep 27, 2019 16:25
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https://twitter.com/AdamSerwer/status/1177605111343919105 sucks the supreme court would never order them released.
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Sep 27, 2019 16:28
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Retro42 posted:My understanding is that is give the House more weight in the inevitable court battle. A subpoena as part of an impeachment inquiry has better legal backing. Generally, a congressional subpoena needs to be be in pursuit of a valid legislative purpose. It also needs to be relevant to whatever area the committee or sub-committee has been authorized to handle. A broad impeachment inquiry makes those two requirements much easier to meet.
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Sep 27, 2019 16:29
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Snuffman posted:So an impeachment inquiry has more "teeth" right? Rudy can't just cross his arms and say "nuh-uh", he can be held in contempt or arrested if he doesn't show up? It all but removes any executive privilege or national security claims that the administration could make and puts the executive in a much weaker legal situation.
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Sep 27, 2019 16:29
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https://twitter.com/BernieSanders/status/1177595360103096320
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Sep 27, 2019 16:37
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https://twitter.com/ShimonPro/status/1177607195149647873
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Sep 27, 2019 16:37
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Groovelord Neato posted:https://twitter.com/AdamSerwer/status/1177605111343919105 Couldn't they argue that they should be released like Nixon's tapes? Or does the classification gently caress with that?
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Sep 27, 2019 16:38
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Meatball posted:Couldn't they argue that they should be released like Nixon's tapes? Or does the classification gently caress with that? the court is packed with partisan hacks.
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Sep 27, 2019 16:39
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Sure does seem like the calculus is to push for actual removal.
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Sep 27, 2019 16:39
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TulliusCicero posted:This. Most of the establishment GOP would throw Trump under the nearest bus as soon as they could. He puts them in the worst possible position constantly: back Trump to the hilt and galvanize the democrats to vote your rear end out, or try to take even a slightly moderate position and get primaried by a Trumpist lunatic on the right. It occurs to me that part of the calculus for the Republicans might be "is it too late to primary me this cycle now?"
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Sep 27, 2019 16:39
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Retro42 posted:His home state wants nothing to do with him.
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Sep 27, 2019 16:40
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Meatball posted:Couldn't they argue that they should be released like Nixon's tapes? Or does the classification gently caress with that? they can subpoena anything they reasonably believe is related to their investigation(s) (this has no bearing on whether *we* actually see many of these documents, though, as there'd be very obvious arguments that anything that properly was kept confidential should remain that way) and no matter what the nothing mattersers in this thread say, John Roberts is not going to overturn U.S. v. Nixon in an election year for the dying gasps of the Trump presidency, which he already obviously hates, and guaran-loving-tee that the Court gets packed.
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Sep 27, 2019 16:40
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RuanGacho posted:It occurs to me that part of the calculus for the Republicans might be "is it too late to primary me this cycle now?" It is. If they come out against strong daddy they get primaried by some drooling loon
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Sep 27, 2019 16:41
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Crows Turn Off posted:They seemed OK with him being VP since Trump/Pence won Indiana. Wouldn't they have been less supportive if they truly didn't like him? There are like 6 people that care who they VP is and they all write opinion columns for major newspapers
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Sep 27, 2019 16:43
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eke out posted:they can subpoena anything they reasonably believe is related to their investigation(s) (this has no bearing on whether *we* actually see many of these documents, though, as there'd be very obvious arguments that anything that properly was kept confidential should remain that way) This is kind of a mixed case for Roberts. I'm sure he has no love for Trump, and he is always dancing his apolitical court two step, but also genuinely believes in the imperial presidency.
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Sep 27, 2019 16:43
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Crows Turn Off posted:They seemed OK with him being VP since Trump/Pence won Indiana. Wouldn't they have been less supportive if they truly didn't like him? 2008 was the only time since johnson's landslide in 64 that the dem won indiana (and obama only took it by 19,000 votes).
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Sep 27, 2019 16:44
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I don't really see a way for the supreme court to deny releasing the records without getting majorly hosed by the currently energized democracts
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Sep 27, 2019 16:45
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Flip Yr Wig posted:This is kind of a mixed case for Roberts. I'm sure he has no love for Trump, and he is always dancing his apolitical court two step, but also genuinely believes in the imperial presidency. if he wouldn't rule in trump's favor in the census there's no way he takes an even more dangerous case in an even more dangerous time for him that's not to say Roberts won't take a case that presents legitimately novel issues related to impeachment - but if Trump is doing things that precedent from Nixon clearly forbids, no way they intervene to save his rear end
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Sep 27, 2019 16:45
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Telsa Cola posted:I don't really see a way for the supreme court to deny releasing the records without getting majorly hosed by the currently energized democracts Chuck might bump his head and get a message from the Baileys.
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Sep 27, 2019 16:46
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eke out posted:they can subpoena anything they reasonably believe is related to their investigation(s) (this has no bearing on whether *we* actually see many of these documents, though, as there'd be very obvious arguments that anything that properly was kept confidential should remain that way) Would US v Nixon apply if it's a congressional subpoena in the pursuit of an impeachment inquiry? Would SCOTUS not just say "ehhh that's a political question and congress can just impeach the executive if he refuses to turn over evidence that is duly subpoened" ?
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Sep 27, 2019 16:46
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Mooseontheloose posted:
Somewhat tangential to your point, but it reminds me: I think a lot of us assumed Trump was smart enough to put layers of fall guys between himself and Putin so that he wouldn't be directly implicated. But it turns out that's just because he wasn't president yet. Now that he has a direct line to foreign leaders, he just picks up the phone and colludes whenever he wants.
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Sep 27, 2019 16:48
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Telsa Cola posted:I don't really see a way for the supreme court to deny releasing the records without getting majorly hosed by the currently energized democracts It'd be a massive push for the Democrats to maybe finally realize court packing needs to happen yesterday and also get even more Dem votes-- both from existing voters and for new/non-voters driven to action. Denying their release would be A Big loving Deal™ and even as political hacks, I have to imagine supreme Court judges are smart enough to play a longer game.
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Sep 27, 2019 16:48
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Sir Lemming posted:Somewhat tangential to your point, but it reminds me: I think a lot of us assumed Trump was smart enough to put layers of fall guys between himself and Putin so that he wouldn't be directly implicated. But it turns out that's just because he wasn't president yet. Now that he has a direct line to foreign leaders, he just picks up the phone and colludes whenever he wants. Partly this, but it's also important to remember he had a LOT more people around him when he started that protected him from himself. He's been paring down anyone who'd inhibit his impulses, so now we're seeing just how goddamn stupid unshielded Trump really is.
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Sep 27, 2019 16:50
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