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Trabisnikof posted:Trump has been committing real crimes since 2016, we have to be able to focus on things other than Trump and his crimes if we're going to be able to focus on anything other than him. And he's not the real problem and never has been. Surprisingly enough, being rich and successful as an adult when your parents were also rich and successful is not actually a crime.
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Sep 27, 2019 20:17
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Government officials using their offices to enrich themselves is directly related to any complete impeachment proceedings, because many of Trump's crimes are using his office to enrich himself.
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Sep 27, 2019 20:18
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Xombie posted:Being from a rich and powerful family and subsequently becoming rich and powerful yourself isn't corruption, it's just normal lovely capitalism. Yeah, this, I'm not saying its OK I'm just saying its not a proven crime. I'm not even saying its not suspicious - definitely worth looking into. But narrative here is that Joe Biden fired the prosecutor in quid quo pro for his son and that is not supported by the facts.
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Sep 27, 2019 20:18
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trump drawing on the hurricane map with a sharpie was three weeks ago and feels like a year ago.
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Sep 27, 2019 20:18
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BigBallChunkyTime posted:I haven't seen this posted so apologies if this is a repeat. But holy poo poo, Rudy has lost his goddamn mind. Like, even moreo. How long until Biden confirms it during a fit of senility on TV?
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Sep 27, 2019 20:19
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Groovelord Neato posted:trump drawing on the hurricane map with a sharpie was three weeks ago and feels like a year ago. ...gently caress that was only three weeks ago? I think this is legitimately the first time I've suffered from Trump Time Dilation.
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Sep 27, 2019 20:19
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The quote is from months ago: quote:This item has been corrected to show that McConnell spoke to NPR months ago, not Friday.
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Sep 27, 2019 20:19
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Majorian posted:I mean, first of all, what you quoted from mcmagic shows that he does want a vote, so your claim that he doesn't was unfounded. The evidence on hand right now is damaging enough, is what I think. There's likely much worse down the rabbit hole, but progressives have been calling for impeachment since the beginning of this year based on Trump's actions regarding immigrants, child concentration camps, the environment, etc You now have a chance to nail him against the wall for what is an entirely non-partisan easy to digest collusion/corruption issue, have republicans in the senate admit they're fine with Trump soliciting election interference, and continue with the rest of the investigations for the remainder of the election year.
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Sep 27, 2019 20:20
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ImpAtom posted:Cool. So why is it important to focus on Joe Biden right now? Really? You can't think of any reasons why people right now might want to warn voters about the risks of Joe Biden's particular circle of corruption? Xombie posted:Surprisingly enough, being rich and successful as an adult when your parents were also rich and successful is not actually a crime. Not everything that we judge leaders poorly for doing is illegal.
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Sep 27, 2019 20:20
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fool_of_sound posted:Government officials using their offices to enrich themselves is directly related to any complete impeachment proceedings, because many of Trump's crimes are using his office to enrich himself. Again: the enoulments clause doesn't apply to one's non-public-employee family. The family of politicians do not get automatically banned from making money.
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Sep 27, 2019 20:21
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SKULL.GIF posted:It is explicitly legal for members of Congress to insider trade, and if you think a person with an investment banker spouse is too noble to take advantage of that, then you're exactly the type of gullible peon that reflexively defends people like Pelosi. mcmagic posted:I don't get why anyone would defend Pelosi. What the gently caress is her track record of accomplishment that you want to defend? Even if you want to give her credit for the ACA, that was a decade ago! Her political track record in the Obama and Trump era's is heinous. Forget about her poo poo politics, just as a political leading of a parliamentary party she is an utter failure. It's a weird day to be agreeing with these two, but these are both accurate. The perception that pelosi timed this well is just a side effect of how ready to break the dam already was. It's clear that low key a bunch of republicans were waiting for the dems to do something so they could proactively not defend trump tooth and nail. Instead we got months of toothless investigations because pelosi repeatedly refused to even try to hold trump officials in contempt. She was actively worse than no opposition because at least with an opening maybe someone who will try to oppose Trump and Miller's agenda might end up in charge. She gets a lot of credit for convincing obama to see ACA through when he was read to give up, but that was a long time ago, too and her inaction over the last two years is beyond defense
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Sep 27, 2019 20:22
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Groovelord Neato posted:trump editing the hurricane map was three weeks ago and feels like a year ago. Christine Blasey Ford testified a year ago today and it feels like 4 years ago.
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Sep 27, 2019 20:22
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If you guys saved more money and stopped having Starbucks lattes every day, maybe you’d have Pelosi money. Read less Marx and read more Suze Orman.
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Sep 27, 2019 20:22
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ImpAtom posted:That is fine. Why focus on a debunked Republican talking point about Joe Biden in particular? There are no shortage of things. The debunked part of that REPUBLICAN TALKING POINT is that Joe Biden withheld aid money from Ukraine to get them to fire a prosecutor that was looking into his son. The non-debunked part of that, admitted proudly on video by Joe Biden himself, is that he personally withheld aid money that had been given to Ukraine by congress to force them to fire a prosecutor. The important thing about this is that a lot of people are talking about how serious and damaging it is to National Security to withhold aid from Ukraine (which Biden objectively did) or how lovely it is for the executive branch to play with aid money that was already guaranteed by the legislative branch (Which Biden objectively did) When you pretend this didn't happen and yell about National Security or the withholding of the aid itself your argument only works if everyone agrees to not think about the existence of Joe Biden which the majority of people are not going to do. We should be focusing on the fact that Trump was targeting a political rival and hiding his phone calls.
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Sep 27, 2019 20:23
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This is the kind of  brainworms that keep me coming back to D&D for entertainment.A forum of extremely rational men who can zero in on the corruption when Rick Scott (R) awards public contracts to a company he put in his wife's name right before passing the legislation, but if Rick Scott (D) did the same thing we'd spin the very smartest rational justifications for why it's fine and okay and actually it would be wrong of him no to. "It's Scott's wife's company, how is that graft. His wife sleeps on the opposite side of the bed, they're practically strangers!" "Is he supposed to tell his wife to bankrupt her business for optics' sake?! What kind of monster are you?"
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Sep 27, 2019 20:23
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Mahoning posted:Christine Blasey Ford testified a year ago today and it feels like 4 years ago. christ that was only a year ago. i want off mr. trump's wild ride.
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Sep 27, 2019 20:24
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Trabisnikof posted:Not everything that we judge leaders poorly for doing is illegal. People who are powerful and rich enough to run for major public office and win are, invariably, going to end up with successful and rich children. Looking "poorly" on them because their children are successful is, once again, not a winning issue. It isn't even rational.
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Sep 27, 2019 20:24
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What Biden did or didn’t do during the last administration shouldn’t be swept under the rug, but what the CURRENT administration is doing RIGHT NOW is a much more pressing and urgent crisis that should be at the forefront of our national discussion.
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Sep 27, 2019 20:24
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Trabisnikof posted:Really? You can't think of any reasons why people right now might want to warn voters about the risks of Joe Biden's particular circle of corruption? Not any more than any of the other candidates, no. If anything if that was what you were worried about then Warren is who you should be looking at very closely since things seem to be favoring her. Joe Biden is a massively lovely candidate for dozens of reasons. Why is Trump's debunked talking point anywhere near the top?
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Sep 27, 2019 20:24
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Trabisnikof posted:Not everything that we judge leaders poorly for doing is illegal. For example, nominating a rapist to the Supreme Court: 100% legal and therefore cannot be criticized as wrong to do
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Sep 27, 2019 20:25
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Trabisnikof posted:Trump has been committing real crimes since 2016 Has he? What crimes has Trump committed? Like actual crimes and not "I think this is wrong and also hate Donald Trump so it's a crime" crimes.
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Sep 27, 2019 20:26
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All Bernie and Warrens' opposition have gotten out of them is a load of wet farts as far as I know, so hopefully the primary comes down to them.
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Sep 27, 2019 20:26
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ImpAtom posted:Joe Biden is a massively lovely candidate for dozens of reasons. Why is Trump's debunked talking point anywhere near the top? Because even super woke posters are poisoned by the superb media management of the American right wing.
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Sep 27, 2019 20:26
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Aspergeoisie posted:Has he? What crimes has Trump committed? Like actual crimes and not "I think this is wrong and also hate Donald Trump so it's a crime" crimes. Obstruction of justice.
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Sep 27, 2019 20:26
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Zotix posted:Mid July - Trump tells his Chief of Staff to withhold $400 million in military aid for Ukraine. Great timeline but I think you missed the actual release of the call transcript/summary by Trump, which was huge. That was late on the 24th I believe.
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Sep 27, 2019 20:27
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Xombie posted:Again: the enoulments clause doesn't apply to one's non-public-employee family. The family of politicians do not get automatically banned from making money. It's still unethical for a politician to use insider influence and knowledge to enrich their family. It's not as cut-and-dry, but we shouldn't pretend it's not an issue worth discussing. Like Kushner has been blatantly using Trump's influence to enrich himself the entire administration.
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Sep 27, 2019 20:27
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Aspergeoisie posted:Has he? What crimes has Trump committed? Like actual crimes and not "I think this is wrong and also hate Donald Trump so it's a crime" crimes. he obstructed justice ten times.
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Sep 27, 2019 20:27
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fool_of_sound posted:It's still unethical for a politician to use insider influence and knowledge to enrich their family. It's not as cut-and-dry, but we shouldn't pretend it's not an issue worth discussing. Like Kushner has been blatantly using Trump's influence to enrich himself the entire administration. Absolutely.
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Sep 27, 2019 20:28
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There Bias Two posted:How long until Biden confirms it during a fit of senility on TV? Ngl that'd be pretty cool.
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Sep 27, 2019 20:28
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BigBallChunkyTime posted:I haven't seen this posted so apologies if this is a repeat. But holy poo poo, Rudy has lost his goddamn mind. Like, even moreo. Biden's gonna sick Corn Pop on ol' Rudy Snake-eyes, see? Nyeah!
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Sep 27, 2019 20:28
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The only Republican defense that they have been able to dredge up in the last 4 days is "what about Joe Biden" and then this thread is full of people saying "what about Joe Biden" without adding anything new or contesting any previously argued or debunked points. I'm not saying that you're Republicans, but the phrase "useful idiots" comes to mind. Nobody here. To my knowledge. Likes or wants Joe Biden to be in office. In further addition, as far as I can tell nobody here is particularly happy about Joe biden's son being on the board of a Ukrainian oil company. So, in a week where the Democrats are making a whole lot of good decisions for once and seemed to be on the right track, what exactly is it that you're trying to say? Nancy Pelosi is an old Rich lady? You are preaching to the choir. Joe Biden is an old guy who should go away? Again cool story nobody gives a poo poo nobody disagrees that's it for your just repeatedly posting about Joe Biden as if that does what? What is your goal? What is winning look like for you? Who are you trying to convince? this just looks like a bunch of weird back padding and cries of persecution when you're just wrong about both the temperature of the room and the actual timeline of events. bird cooch fucked around with this message at 20:33 on Sep 27, 2019 |
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Sep 27, 2019 20:29
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Aspergeoisie posted:Has he? What crimes has Trump committed? Like actual crimes and not "I think this is wrong and also hate Donald Trump so it's a crime" crimes. Oh baby what is you doin
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Sep 27, 2019 20:30
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fool_of_sound posted:It's still unethical for a politician to use insider influence and knowledge to enrich their family. It's not as cut-and-dry, but we shouldn't pretend it's not an issue worth discussing. Like Kushner has been blatantly using Trump's influence to enrich himself the entire administration. lets all agree all lives matter. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Sep 27, 2019 20:30
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fool_of_sound posted:It's still unethical for a politician to use insider influence and knowledge to enrich their family. It's not as cut-and-dry, but we shouldn't pretend it's not an issue worth discussing. Like Kushner has been blatantly using Trump's influence to enrich himself the entire administration. No argument here. My only argument has been that focusing on Hunter Biden, given that there is a bunch of blatant Republican-generated lies surrounding his situation in Ukraine, is pointless and damaging to any attempt to point out corruption on the part of Joe Biden, especially when there's probably so much more to focus on (like credit card companies, something the American Public would gladly sink their teeth into I feel). Also Kushner has been employed by the Administration in some capacity, has he not?
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Sep 27, 2019 20:30
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https://twitter.com/MysterySolvent/status/1177449723696828418 speaking of mind worms.
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Sep 27, 2019 20:30
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Xombie posted:People who are powerful and rich enough to run for major public office and win are, invariably, going to end up with successful and rich children. Looking "poorly" on them because their children are successful is, once again, not a winning issue. It isn't even rational. So objecting to nepotism is hating people for their success now. What job did daddy get you lol
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Sep 27, 2019 20:30
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As far as I’m aware Impeachment doesn’t require criminal conduct. It’s a political process by which an unpopular president can be censured or removed from office based on what the house and senate deem most politically advantageous to them at any given time.
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Sep 27, 2019 20:31
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ryde posted:Obstruction of justice. Ah, so it's one of those "I think this is wrong and also hate Donald Trump so it's a crime" crimes. Gotcha.
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Sep 27, 2019 20:31
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fool_of_sound posted:It's still unethical for a politician to use insider influence and knowledge to enrich their family. It's not as cut-and-dry, but we shouldn't pretend it's not an issue worth discussing. Like Kushner has been blatantly using Trump's influence to enrich himself the entire administration. whoa hey buddy how dare you attack Kushner for his success, jealous much?
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Sep 27, 2019 20:31
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BigBallChunkyTime posted:I haven't seen this posted so apologies if this is a repeat. But holy poo poo, Rudy has lost his goddamn mind. Like, even moreo. 
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Sep 27, 2019 20:31
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