|
usually the non-grade path of entry has a whole interview system attached to it which they use to filter applications by whatever gross method they have to hand a lot of prospective students going from lower right into higher education won't need to bother with uni admissions interviews tho, at any level (unless they are going to oxbridge in which case you must do battle of the classes)
|
#
?
Sep 28, 2019 00:37
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 23, 2024 04:58 |
|
|
Angepain posted:Not in Scotland, we just get an extra year for larking about in. 4 years for a shiny BSc. badass, i guess all the scottish students i chatted with were exceptions and not the norm
|
|
#
?
Sep 28, 2019 00:37
|
|
|
Angepain posted:Not in Scotland, we just get an extra year for larking about in. 4 years for a shiny BSc. Also some English unis offer 4 year "placement" BScs where you take a year out to work in industry (you must fight your classmates for the very limited number of placements)
|
|
#
?
Sep 28, 2019 00:38
|
|
|
OwlFancier posted:Also some English unis offer 4 year "placement" BScs where you take a year out to work in industry (you must fight your classmates for the very limited number of placements) They advertised the gently caress out of their placement program with Microsoft at my uni, then cancelled it the year I enrolled 
|
|
#
?
Sep 28, 2019 00:39
|
|
|
I did a 4 year placement BSc but I didn't get a placement so I just failed a year instead lol.
|
|
#
?
Sep 28, 2019 00:40
|
|
|
OwlFancier posted:I did a 4 year placement BSc but I didn't get a placement so I just failed a year instead lol. At least you're not bitter!
|
|
#
?
Sep 28, 2019 00:43
|
|
|
To be clear the failing wasn't compulsory I just was, as mentioned, a very lazy student.
|
|
#
?
Sep 28, 2019 00:43
|
|
|
OwlFancier posted:Also some English unis offer 4 year "placement" BScs where you take a year out to work in industry (you must fight your classmates for the very limited number of placements) I did this, but there was plenty of places for mine. Suppose depends on the subject/companies looking for cheap labour. My 4 year course changed 4 times, had 4 different titles, and the poo poo I wanted to study in it was removed after the second year.
|
|
#
?
Sep 28, 2019 00:44
|
|
|
Another Person posted:yeah, i said what feels like a million words ago that maths is always going to be tested under this type of system, this can be extended to engineering or physics pretty easily. i am honestly at a loss on how you reform stem subjects in a way which better engages students with the content of the course, because teaching kids to teach themselves how to teach is an exceedingly difficult ask, which is what asking kids to develop their own problems demands. education is an extremely difficult thing to just 'reform', but what sounds more like abolition of education is far more dangerous than the lovely capitalist version we have now, because it runs the risk of knowingly leaving kids on their own long before they have developed any sort of critical capability. Maths exams aren't an inescapable fact of the universe, there are other ways to evaluate it if we want to evaluate it. Likewise there are ways to teach people to use maths creatively, in the same way there are ways to teach people to use words or wood creatively. It's just completely alien to the British educational system. I think one person mentioned abolishing school, and I don't know how serious they were, but they also don't see at all in favour of abolishing education. These things are not synonymous. Like I said there is already operating, in a city near you, a radically different form of education, the Steiner school. And again, I'm not saying that model is the solution or anything, but it demonstrates a functioning alternative. You seem to be saying that the system is basically impossible to change and in some ways already fine, because you can choose the title of your English A-level coursework assignment. And yeah, given the economically revolutionary approach people in this thread seem to take, it's a bit of a weird point of view.
|
|
#
?
Sep 28, 2019 00:44
|
|
|
Carborundum posted:And as for alternatives, I suppose the most widespread alternative you can find in Britain is the Steiner school, which I am no expert in and I'm sure is not perfect but seems to address some of these issues. Behind the Bastards just did a two parter on Rudolf Steiner. Let's just say the man had some opinions. Especially about Jewish people. AceOfFlames fucked around with this message at 00:47 on Sep 28, 2019 |
|
#
?
Sep 28, 2019 00:45
|
|
|
happyhippy posted:I did this, but there was plenty of places for mine. Suppose depends on the subject/companies looking for cheap labour. Oh poo poo they did that with mine too actually, they discontinued the course half way through my run through it so that was very inspiring lol.
|
|
#
?
Sep 28, 2019 00:45
|
|
|
In the UK there's a difference between 'further education' and 'higher education'. 'Further' is post-16 and 'Higher' post-18. (Generally. There are exceptions to everything.) In 'further' this may be students who are moving on from school to do A-levels etc at a college, or more vocational subjects. Higher education takes place in Universities and is where you get your bachelors, masters, PhDs and a few other rare things. Some universities are 'collegiate' eg Oxford, Cambridge, London, and a few others, where you study at a college of the university. Eg London University has Imperial, Queen Mary, University College, Goldsmiths, Royal Holloway and a bunch of others. Basically, they are like federations. There have been a lot of mergers in the past 35-40 years and some have lost their identity completely. Eg Queen Mary WAS Queen Mary College. Then it was Queen Mary & Westfield. Now it is Queen Mary (without the college bit). Westfield College has gone to the great library in the sky never to be heard of again. There used to be things called Polytechnics as well, they did offer degrees but often in more vocational / technical subjects. These converted to Universities back in the late 80s I think. There was a lot of snobbery against 'red brick' universities (new ones) and the traditional ones that could trace origins back several hundred years.
|
|
#
?
Sep 28, 2019 00:47
|
|
|
AceOfFlames posted:Behind the Bastards just did a two parter on Rudolf Steiner. Let's just say the man had some opinions. Especially about Jewish people. Yeah, from my understanding the guy was pretty nuts. And it is simply shocking that the 19th century Austrian man had some questionable ideas about Jewish people. I hesitated to use Steiner schools as an example, but at least the one I have experience with does in fact attempt to develop a more holistic and integrated curriculum. And they actually exist as functioning alternatives, so they can at least be critically evaluated.
|
|
#
?
Sep 28, 2019 00:53
|
|
|
On the subject of education: Ruth Lawrence was a math prodigy who was hot-housed by her father and started her degree at Oxford University when she was just 10. (I remember being jealous of her having a father who understood the importance of maths instead of my dad who hated and loathed maths with all his might - now I'm older I appreciate having a dad who encouraged debate on all sorts of religious and philosophical topics around the dinner table). She was able to go to Oxford Uni aged 10 as they did not have a lower age limit. She would not have been able to go to Cambridge Uni because they had a lower age limit which I don't remember but was probably 17. Anyway, just googled what happened to her: she is teaching maths at the Hebrew University in Jerusalem: https://www.timesofisrael.com/uk-math-prodigy-who-graduated-oxford-at-13-is-now-orthodox-mom-of-4-in-jlem/ In the 1970s there were a range of experimental schools - no curriculum, no uniform, let kids study what they want: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-29518319 I think the problem with these sort of schools is it is expecting kids to be highly self-motivating instead of lazy asses (like I was). I needed the external motivators of exams and courseworks to get me to do anything. The only thing I did for hours and hours because I enjoyed it was maths. Everything else was a chore. Jaeluni Asjil fucked around with this message at 00:57 on Sep 28, 2019 |
|
#
?
Sep 28, 2019 00:54
|
|
|
Looking them up they seem like the kind of place all the rich people send their kids if they don't want to go to the nonce training academies, though some of the reported outcomes sound agreeable though whether that's a function of class size/wealth/other rich people poo poo I dunno.
|
|
#
?
Sep 28, 2019 00:55
|
|
|
Carborundum posted:Yeah, from my understanding the guy was pretty nuts. And it is simply shocking that the 19th century Austrian man had some questionable ideas about Jewish people. I hesitated to use Steiner schools as an example, but at least the one I have experience with does in fact attempt to develop a more holistic and integrated curriculum. And they actually exist as functioning alternatives, so they can at least be critically evaluated. BtB is pretty clear about - Waldorf schools are not inherently bad - Many of them package small to large amounts of crazy Rudolf or Rudolf-adjacent nonsense with their other work - Rudolf was Bad
|
|
#
?
Sep 28, 2019 00:58
|
|
|
No one individual's intellect is so important its worth dismissing their chance of loving their own life up in their own time.
|
|
#
?
Sep 28, 2019 00:59
|
|
|
Jaeluni Asjil posted:In the 1970s there were a range of experimental schools - no curriculum, no uniform, let kids study what they want: quote:So what has become of those free school guinea pigs? Maureen Breen is now Maria Catterall. She is married with three children and lives in a neat terraced house in Wavertree, an area of Liverpool now known for its student population. She works as a team secretary for community mental health at an NHS psychiatric unit. Her husband drives tankers. Her three sons work in good jobs. No-one would guess that she was part of one of the most radical educational experiments in modern Britain. Clearly this cannot be a problem with the bit-of-paper based employment economy.
|
|
#
?
Sep 28, 2019 01:03
|
|
|
Carborundum posted:Maths exams aren't an inescapable fact of the universe, there are other ways to evaluate it if we want to evaluate it. Likewise there are ways to teach people to use maths creatively, in the same way there are ways to teach people to use words or wood creatively. It's just completely alien to the British educational system. thing is, i am having an extreme amount of difficulty doing any real research into the efficacy of the waldorf style. all i find is a fuckton of reporting about their anti-intellectual nature, poo poo like supporting homeopathy or opposing vaccination. outside of some clearly biased pieces from either end, i find it very difficult to find serious research on them not funded by a steiner associated institute. even searching an academic library, i am mostly finding introductions to steinerism, or ofsted reports about them failing steiner schools. i won't take the ofsted reports with much weight, because they will themselves hold a clear bias against it, but honestly it is difficult to gauge for myself whether they really are a functioning alternative. even the wikipedia page, when you get to stuff like how they assess student progress, has clearly been massaged by someone down the line. my issue is that i am having trouble conceiving of a way of saying "this child has learned their mathematics" without testing them on it at some point. i have seen some slight mention that there is some degree of actual testing even in steiner schools, just that it is done much more restrictively than the national curriculum, usually trending towards the end of a student's time at the institution. and that's the issue, there does at some point need to be a test where you can determine whether the child in question has actually learned any maths.
|
|
#
?
Sep 28, 2019 01:04
|
|
|
OwlFancier posted:Clearly this cannot be a problem with the bit-of-paper based employment economy. Mate, its ok to occasionally be slightly not right.
|
|
#
?
Sep 28, 2019 01:06
|
|
|
I just find it striking that she can clearly get a job but it's the qualifications that cause her the problems. Which is rather similar to the problem we have today whereby increasing access to qualifications just means everyone's expected to have more of them and they don't even give a poo poo anyway cos they throw half the applications out anyway. Like if you can literallly throw a pile of children in a building with some caretakers and that produces perfectly functional members of society, that's not exactly a ringing endorsement of the formal schooling system. E: WAit no I'm completely wrong I take back everything i ever said: quote:Michael Young, who founded the Consumers' Association and Which? magazine, was a patron of the White Lion. His son, journalist Toby Young, has been a pioneer of the modern free schools - setting up a notable example in west London in 2011. Michael Young had sent his children to progressive schools. Toby had gone to Creighton, one of the most experimental comprehensives in the country. It was an experience he loathed. He left before his GCSE year and only achieved a grade C in English literature when he came to sit them. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 01:13 on Sep 28, 2019 |
|
#
?
Sep 28, 2019 01:08
|
|
|
goddamnedtwisto posted:https://twitter.com/ScrtDrugAddict/status/1177302941256028160 I have a lot of stuff to say on this topic, but I'm in the pub and pished so I'm quoting it to remind myself.
|
|
#
?
Sep 28, 2019 01:25
|
|
|
OwlFancier posted:If you believe that qualifications = insight and contribution to society then I have a bridge to sell you from oxford. Lmao you suck goddamm
|
|
#
?
Sep 28, 2019 01:33
|
|
|
Coohoolin posted:Lmao you suck goddamm We cannae all be the eternal student in mandalin futures.
|
|
#
?
Sep 28, 2019 01:41
|
|
|
Latest podcast officially good.
|
|
#
?
Sep 28, 2019 01:55
|
|
|
superLINUS posted:Latest podcast officially good. It really is. I'm finding listening to it to be a very comradely experience
|
|
#
?
Sep 28, 2019 02:02
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/CNN/status/1177754813213356032 Stop copying our President, Boris! That's OUR gimmick! 
|
|
#
?
Sep 28, 2019 02:58
|
|
|
superLINUS posted:Latest podcast officially good. It's great background noise to draw to.  goddamnedtwisto posted:https://twitter.com/ScrtDrugAddict/status/1177302941256028160 It's an aside to some of the bigger institutional issues mentioned in this piece, but I think it's so important to talk about the experience of how it is to work in an industry. Not just whether your legal rights are being met or whether the company's doing well, but how it feels to be a part of a company or working in an industry. I suppose you could call it the working "culture", but I'd rather call it the question my Irish grandma asks every time I talk about a new job or partner. "are they treating you right?" I used to think this question was really invasive, but actually my grandma hits the nail on the head, and when I can't sincerely answer "yes" it's always been an important revelation for me. Azza Bamboo fucked around with this message at 03:47 on Sep 28, 2019 |
|
#
?
Sep 28, 2019 03:28
|
|
|
Is that tom watson as a chaos space marine?
|
|
#
?
Sep 28, 2019 03:30
|
|
|
NO a guardian marine
|
|
#
?
Sep 28, 2019 03:32
|
|
|
Another Person posted:thing is, i am having an extreme amount of difficulty doing any real research into the efficacy of the waldorf style. all i find is a fuckton of reporting about their anti-intellectual nature, poo poo like supporting homeopathy or opposing vaccination. outside of some clearly biased pieces from either end, i find it very difficult to find serious research on them not funded by a steiner associated institute. even searching an academic library, i am mostly finding introductions to steinerism, or ofsted reports about them failing steiner schools. i won't take the ofsted reports with much weight, because they will themselves hold a clear bias against it, but honestly it is difficult to gauge for myself whether they really are a functioning alternative. even the wikipedia page, when you get to stuff like how they assess student progress, has clearly been massaged by someone down the line. I'm trained as a secondary teacher, but work in a Waldorf kindergarten and have family members who went to the Waldorf school outside the UK. At kindergarten level, it's fantastic that there's no academic pressure. Kids that age have enough going on working out how to function socially, and they're not really equipped to sit still and learn. Our kids leave at six and usually can't read or write yet. They don't learn in the first year of school either, Steiner believed it was actively harmful for the incarnation of a child's soul to learn to read before 7. Gonna have to say I don't agree with that specific part, but my experience with kids focusing on play and creativity at a young age rather than academic learning has definitely been positive. That said... my sister left the Steiner school having been given summary grades by her teacher, then went to college. She's very bright and academic, was very bored and unchallenged towards the end of her time at the Waldorf school. Turns out, when she took college classes they'd be assuming prior knowledge that she just didn't have. I spent a lot of time teaching her maths and English to get her up to speed. Biology and Chem age basically figured out alone, but a less academically motivated kid would probably have given up there. It was a real struggle for her. There were also some incidents in school where weird ideological stuff came forward. A visitor who taught that disabled people were disabled because they were bad in a prior life, while the teacher nodded along. My other sister left the school early, partially because of the concern that she'd also end up leaving school without learning enough, mainly due to being unhappy there. There was some racist bullying in her class, and she felt very disheartened when the teachers shrugged it off. We later learned that it's not uncommon for Waldorf teachers to consider bullying a part of karma resolving itself, and not something one should intervene with. Waldorf schools are very decentralised, and so it's difficult to know what you'll get. Some are way more into spreading anthroposophy further than others. Some are more secular. Personally I'm of the biased opinion that the kindergarten is great, but I wouldn't be sending a kid to a Waldorf secondary.
|
|
#
?
Sep 28, 2019 03:34
|
|
|
Thaaaat's the logo, I was wondering what tom watson had to do with google plus
|
|
#
?
Sep 28, 2019 03:34
|
|
|
Ojo posted:They don't learn in the first year of school either, Steiner believed it was actively harmful for the incarnation of a child's soul to learn to read before 7. what that's dreadful to not teach reading/writing before 7 Ojo posted:That said... my sister left the Steiner school having been given summary grades by her teacher, then went to college. She's very bright and academic, was very bored and unchallenged towards the end of her time at the Waldorf school. Turns out, when she took college classes they'd be assuming prior knowledge that she just didn't have. I spent a lot of time teaching her maths and English to get her up to speed. Biology and Chem age basically figured out alone, but a less academically motivated kid would probably have given up there. It was a real struggle for her. not a shock with what little non-steiner funded info i could find out there Ojo posted:There were also some incidents in school where weird ideological stuff came forward. A visitor who taught that disabled people were disabled because they were bad in a prior life, while the teacher nodded along. tracks with the absolute bs i was seeing about homeopathy and antivaxx support gotta ask, with all this terrible sounding stuff about it, what makes the kindergarten so great? not knowing how to read or write at 7 sounds... well, like it is failing the kids. hard. say what you want about kids not being academically equipped at that age, but you can absolutely teach kids reading and writing from an early age.
|
|
#
?
Sep 28, 2019 03:43
|
|
|
mediadave posted:Does anyone have any recent newspaper sales figure trends? I need to persuade myself again that they're not long for this world. The main problem with newspapers, like so much else in this world is that they've all been bought up by hedge funds and then hollowed to create positions for highly paid executives, while they keep cutting employees and just printing poo poo from a central writing depot. Its wrecked so many newspaper, that would otherwise be continuing to be relatively high quality. And thats without going into how much money Google is siphoning off the whole internet ad system, that would have previously gone directly to newspapers I guess this is a very US based perspective, but thats the issue we have
|
|
#
?
Sep 28, 2019 03:44
|
|
|
quote:Given the preceding context, another issue of indubitable impor-tance arises: the fact that certain members of the oppressor class join the oppressed in their struggle for liberation, thus moving from one pole of the contradiction to the other. Theirs is a fundamental role, and has been so throughout the history of this struggle. It happens, however, that as they cease to be exploiters or indifferent spectators or simply the heirs of exploitation and move to the side of the exploited, they almost always bring with them the marks of their origin: their prejudices and their deformations, which include a lack of confidence in the people's ability to think, to want, and to know. liberalism.txt This book once again is very good if very dense.
|
|
#
?
Sep 28, 2019 03:49
|
|
|
If everything in school was assesed via essay coursework I am reasonably certain I would only be fit to dig ditches, instead of being near top of my year at a selective school and uni (the latter less so, turns out writing is fairly important by that point). As an explanation I have a writing-related form of dyslexia. It took me three years of several hours tutoring a week before I learned how to write at all, but I read through the entire bible on my own initiative when I was 9. Also why I edit my posts so much.
|
|
#
?
Sep 28, 2019 04:26
|
|
|
Another Person posted:what Totally. My 7 year old is capable of reading almost anything at this point, including important things like preparation directions on the side of a packet of food, or warning labels on things that could harm her, because she is now of the age where she navigates the world alone most of her time (we're around obviously, but not doting on or listening out for her like her baby sister) and absolutely needs to be self-sufficient in that respect. It also allows her mind to expand, because seeing new words and comprehending their meaning opens windows into new understandings of things she didn't even know existed before. I cannot imagine actively encouraging illiteracy or having the gall to think that such a brain hemorrhage of an idea would be beneficial to a child.
|
|
#
?
Sep 28, 2019 04:27
|
|
|
Private Speech posted:If everything in school was assesed via essay coursework I am reasonably certain I would only be fit to dig ditches, instead of being near top of my year at a selective school and uni (the latter less so, turns out writing is fairly important by that point). school testing should ultimately be some sort of mix, and the system should be flexible to reflect the needs of individual student capabilities and needs. the real end result should be a selective testing methodology, where the student can select the testing method which they perceive best fits their preferences. that could be a written test, coursework, oral examination, debate, class participation, etc. good to hear you pushed through it tho
|
|
#
?
Sep 28, 2019 04:32
|
|
|
That Steiner reading thing is absolutely wild lmao
|
|
#
?
Sep 28, 2019 05:52
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 23, 2024 04:58 |
|
|
https://twitter.com/MikeStuchbery_/status/1177162214953889792?s=19
|
|
#
?
Sep 28, 2019 06:14
|
|
