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Smiling Demon posted:I'll be honest, I've worked with magma quite a bit and I've never observed any behind tile or teleportation behaviour. Well it's easy to replicate since it happens with over-pressurized oil too. It's what happens before the tile cracks from overpressure and if the pressure goes some other way it never cracks but still teleports.
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Sep 27, 2019 20:26
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The liquid behind tile thing feels like a newer bug, I never used to see it but I’ve noticed it a few times recently, you’ll deconstruct a tile and there will be liquid in the space surface tensioning between the openings. It’s very rare as I said, and requires you built over liquid in the first place. The steam cooling the magma and phase changing it makes sense for why it just appeared as debris later. It could be either, both are good explanations. Mazz fucked around with this message at 20:56 on Sep 27, 2019 |
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Sep 27, 2019 20:54
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endlessmonotony posted:Well it's easy to replicate since it happens with over-pressurized oil too. Oh, leaking, yes. That happens, not really what I think of as a teleport and its been in the game for as long as I've played. I don't have a good feel for what level of pressure you'd need for magma to do that. Mazz posted:The liquid behind tile thing feels like a newer bug, I never used to see it but I’ve noticed it a few times recently, you’ll deconstruct a tile and there will be liquid in the space surface tensioning between the openings. It’s very rare as I said, and requires you built over liquid in the first place. Could be that, I haven't played as much since the release ironically. There were some side effects of fixing long standing liquid duplication bugs that I'm still not fully familiar with. Smiling Demon fucked around with this message at 23:02 on Sep 27, 2019 |
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Sep 27, 2019 22:39
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Joiny posted:I just gave it a try and it really works well. Basically doubled my lategame fps at 3x from 20 to 40. Looking forward to full release of it. I recently added Fast Save (https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1867707267) to my mod set. Its goal is to speed up saving and loading, but curiously the random periods of slow down have totally vanished.
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Sep 27, 2019 22:47
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Mazz, I missed your question on my Aquatuner cooling room temp sensor. It's set to Green if temp < 250 C (steel aquatuner). The thin oil layer means the temp sensor reacts almost 1:1 with the Aquatuner temperature. I've never actually seen it reach that temperature though, so it's mostly just a safety precaution since I have the room for it, or a way to shut off the system if I need to crack it open for some reason later (I had to rebuild my refinery area cooling block 4x).
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Sep 27, 2019 23:14
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Faldoncow posted:Mazz, I missed your question on my Aquatuner cooling room temp sensor. It's set to Green if temp < 250 C (steel aquatuner). The thin oil layer means the temp sensor reacts almost 1:1 with the Aquatuner temperature. I've never actually seen it reach that temperature though, so it's mostly just a safety precaution since I have the room for it, or a way to shut off the system if I need to crack it open for some reason later (I had to rebuild my refinery area cooling block 4x). Makes sense, I figured 200C as a clamp but it probably naturally clamps to right around there because turbines murder so much heat. It's a good design.
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Sep 27, 2019 23:17
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Well this is a fun bug in the testing branch and/or from a mod:
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Sep 28, 2019 04:36
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The vaunted triple post: Lime has become a pretty big bottleneck to my steel production since I've mined out the majority of the map, trying out a fish farm with feeders only allowed at 1kg. 
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Sep 28, 2019 14:15
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Last night I was on a roll putting transit tubes everywhere, and I accidentally uncorked the copper volcano right next to my bedrooms.  This is my first run and I've been turtling like a motherfucker so I've got all the tech research done that doesn't require going to space. I'm thinking I should just put steel or bunker tile around it and cap it off for now. That much heat scares me.
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Sep 28, 2019 14:49
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Mazz posted:The vaunted triple post: Pokeshells are really good for lime I've found, especially with infinite pdirt from the ethanol loop.
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Sep 28, 2019 14:56
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Han Nehi posted:Last night I was on a roll putting transit tubes everywhere, and I accidentally uncorked the copper volcano right next to my bedrooms. If you do that all the heat will still get out. Just use insulation tile.
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Sep 28, 2019 15:00
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Aethernet posted:Pokeshells are really good for lime I've found, especially with infinite pdirt from the ethanol loop. I have a bunch, I'm just not actually ranching them right now. I left them wild and use them to murder all my excess incubator output since they attack any other animal if there is pinch egg nearby. I dump my polluted dirt into a manually accessible loader thats just dumped on the ground in my morb area to help feed the puft farm. I cut my ethanol loop out completely for now, I need to produce petroleum for my 16 jetsuit docks anyway (I didn't test if they run on ethanol...). I might spin it back up though, and pokeshell farming is a good idea for the crazy amount of polluted dirt.  Anyways I'm setting the fish thing partly to get some pacu so I can turn all my unused barbacue into surf and turf. Even with my all my harvesting disabled I am still plateau'd at 1 million kcal. I kind of want to jump up to 32 dupes from 24 but it means 8 more atmo suits and great hall seats (w/o that mod), and I'm out of space for that w/ my original base plan. Might make a space base soon for my ~ 8 rocket navigators only to fix that. As a side note, I've actually had those shine bugs so long I progressed all the way to abyss bugs just feeding them phosphorite and RNGing into the next egg. Pretty neat. Mazz fucked around with this message at 15:15 on Sep 28, 2019 |
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Sep 28, 2019 15:05
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CainFortea posted:If you do that all the heat will still get out. Just use insulation tile. Cool, thanks. I'm guessing I should use obsidian. The copper is coming out at 2200 degrees, and all my other materials melt before that. ... actually that brings up a question - when I'm building something like tile or pipe that doesn't have an overheat temperature listed, will the structure function until it reaches the melting point of the material I used? Or will it start to fail at some point before that?
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Sep 28, 2019 15:36
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Han Nehi posted:Cool, thanks. I'm guessing I should use obsidian. The copper is coming out at 2200 degrees, and all my other materials melt before that. Yeah, that means it won't take heat damage, it will just melt when it gets to melting point. Pipes can still take an equivalent sort of damage if the fluid inside them gets hot enough to boil or cool enough to freeze, mind.
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Sep 28, 2019 16:12
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My first attempt to put all my dups in atmo suits was a total failure. I thought I was clever. I arranged the bedrooms in groups of 4, with the atmo docks right outside. I assigned beds and arranged everyone into 4 work shifts so they wouldn't fight over the bathrooms and showers. But I couldn't get the oxygen to the suit docks consistently. Dups kept getting locked in because the suits weren't charged, so I had to disable the docks. With no suits, I lost a dup in the oil biome when he got scalded to the point of incapacitation, and his rescuer kept stopping to catch their breath. Stress skyrocketed. Dups started puking everywhere. Farms kept shutting down because plants can't grow under a layer of vomit. Everyone's feet were soggy from walking in puke. My angry dups were smashing machines and breaking walls, letting chlorine gas in and letting my critters out. They let my glossy dreckos out multiple times, and I lost a few when I'd wrangle them and they'd fall into water over and over because the dup was out of breath and would drop them again. Dups couldn't sleep because their bedrooms were contaminated with unbreathable gas. All of my liquid storage pits were contaminated with vomit and piss. While I was distracted with all this, my pokeshells ran out of polluted dirt and they starved to death. I remember one moment in the middle of it all where Nikola, one of my best diggers, just sat down on a ladder and cried. And that was the moment I realized - I love this loving game. 
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Sep 28, 2019 16:46
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Han Nehi posted:My first attempt to put all my dups in atmo suits was a total failure. I thought I was clever. I arranged the bedrooms in groups of 4, with the atmo docks right outside. I assigned beds and arranged everyone into 4 work shifts so they wouldn't fight over the bathrooms and showers. But I couldn't get the oxygen to the suit docks consistently. Dups kept getting locked in because the suits weren't charged, so I had to disable the docks. With no suits, I lost a dup in the oil biome when he got scalded to the point of incapacitation, and his rescuer kept stopping to catch their breath. Stress skyrocketed. Dups started puking everywhere. Farms kept shutting down because plants can't grow under a layer of vomit. Everyone's feet were soggy from walking in puke. My angry dups were smashing machines and breaking walls, letting chlorine gas in and letting my critters out. They let my glossy dreckos out multiple times, and I lost a few when I'd wrangle them and they'd fall into water over and over because the dup was out of breath and would drop them again. Dups couldn't sleep because their bedrooms were contaminated with unbreathable gas. All of my liquid storage pits were contaminated with vomit and piss. While I was distracted with all this, my pokeshells ran out of polluted dirt and they starved to death. If you have any questions about oxygen production and filling lots of suits effectively, just ask; I have probably posted more about SPOMs, electrolzyer efficiency and atmo suits than any other topic in this thread, and I post way too god drat much. 
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Sep 28, 2019 16:52
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What are the clock timers on your SPOM doing?
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Sep 28, 2019 18:15
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 Controlling the airlocks mostly. It makes the construction/pumping to vacuum first phases much much easier. The ones to the electrolyzers are just in case I ever want to have precise control of their output, I've never actually used that function though, they control themselves well enough via water/air pipe availability. Basically the clock sensors are set to 100% while building and vacuuming, so dupes can reach all areas and the pumps get every bit of unwanted gas. Once ready, the clocks are set to 0% and the whole thing seals up properly forever. Dupes never have to step foot in the vacuumed/prep space (or ever again if you didn't miss anything). I run drat near everything off clock sensors so I can have much more exacting control of when they're on/off, and I can play with scheduling of machines to lower peak power demand and spread it out over the course of the cycle if needed. You can also schedule out pumps this way so you have like 6-10 pumps feeding the same HVAC system in a controlled fashion. That's how my big centralized piping loop continues to function as I grow my base; I can set each pump group to run for 10-15% of the cycle, and start/stop them accordingly. Mazz fucked around with this message at 19:11 on Sep 28, 2019 |
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Sep 28, 2019 18:43
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Mazz posted:If you have any questions about oxygen production and filling lots of suits effectively, just ask; I have probably posted more about SPOMs, electrolzyer efficiency and atmo suits than any other topic in this thread, and I post way too god drat much. Actually I think it was one of your posts that inspired my 2nd attempt, which is going really well. I have all the suits in one big checkpoint at the top of the base. It's amazing how much faster things get done when they're always suited up. I did have a flow problem where I couldn't keep oxygen in the suits closest to the checkpoint. Looks like your setup fills those stations first, which is ... slightly more elegant than my solution.    Yeah. That was fun to build though. The broken pipes going to the right were for the oxygen overflow. I greatly underestimated how much hot O2 5 hydrolyzers would make, so instead I let the system back up and shut itself off. I'm not seeing gas filters on yours. How is it separating the gases? Edit: that whole mess just makes the pipes on the left flow to the right if they're backed up, without interrupting the flow. Anthony Chuzzlewit fucked around with this message at 18:54 on Sep 28, 2019 |
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Sep 28, 2019 18:49
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Han Nehi posted:Actually I think it was one of your posts that inspired my 2nd attempt, which is going really well. I have all the suits in one big checkpoint at the top of the base. It's amazing how much faster things get done when they're always suited up. Gravity, atmo sensors and 1 tile space above the middle airlock. Hydrogen goes up and fills the top row of tiles between the electro and the top pump, that pump only turns on when the connected atmo sensor sees 250g or more. Because you will never get all of the hydrogen this way and oxygen cannot displace hydrogen above it, no oxygen will ever reach the top pump. The original SPOM design on the Klei forums did something similiar, I saw this door method somewhere later and it's both more reliable and compact. Then I just fine tuned over like 500 hours of this dumb game including automating everything since dupes tend to ruin it somehow as soon as they step foot inside. For detailed math, each electrolyzer at max efficiency will produce 528kg per cycle of 02, each dupe consumes 60kg (45kg for deep breath or whatever). Therefore, each electrolyzer that is pumping the 1000g/s of gas made away fast enough should produce enough oxygen for ~8.5 dupes. You need 3 pumps per electrolyzer to handle the gasses, since its 880 g/s of 02 and 112g/s of H and you can't split packets (as you scale up you can condense pumps but you'll still likely run into volume issues). The most difficult part of a good SPOM design is actually pumping that gas away fast enough; this is the best design I've made, it can hit ~510kg/c per electrolyzer assuming the lines don't back up, or something like 97% efficiency. I feed 24 suits off these 3 atmos and generally produce enough excess to slowly pressurize the rest of my base up to 2kg/t. That being said, you can just skip all that and overproduce, it works just fine assuming you aren't draining a water source faster than it fills. I'm just a min/maxer at heart for stuff like this. I added two rust deoxidizers when I built all the jet suit docks though, since it was 32 more suit docks to fill (and I actually need a chlorine source for my squeaky pufts  ) They run very sporadically, usually just enough to keep the dock lines fully supplied. You can see them in the corner there.  Just a side note for this SPOM design, 3 electrolyzer rooms paired up like this will break a conductive wire when everything is active at once. If you break it down to 2 electrolyzers per unit you will stay under the conductive draw limit. I fixed it this time by grabbing that mod that makes pumps only 120w vs 240w because I was too lazy to break it all down for that little of a reason; especially since a storage locker next to an accessible conductive bridge (these will take all damage on the line, very useful for situations like this) meant it got fixed via a early proximity command as everyone left the base in the morning. Mazz fucked around with this message at 19:14 on Sep 28, 2019 |
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Sep 28, 2019 18:54
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I'm a big fan of this design in the bottom right: I only make the bottom portion and plug it into my main electrical grid instead of using up the hydrogen to power itself. This design nets you nearly 3 kilos of oxygen from the 6 bottom pumps and one pump running the hydrogen up top. Joiny fucked around with this message at 22:51 on Sep 28, 2019 |
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Sep 28, 2019 22:49
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The big pull of self powering for me is that once set up it will never turn off outside of running the water source dry. Since the atmo docks are both close and have very little discrete power draw, I just connect them to the same batteries. I accidentally cut a water or power line like every 20 minutes while screwing around building and rebuilding things, so disconnecting probably the 2 most important life support systems from the rest of the MEPs tends to pay off for me all the time. I also still like cooling the O2 down as part of the standing system with wheezes or an AETN but I get that can be done elsewhere for no real loss.
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Sep 28, 2019 23:42
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Early on I like self powering for a different reason - it isolates a significant power consumer from the rest of the grid. It buys significant time until I need a proper electric grid up and running. Later on I don't burn hydrogen, stuff is too precious to go in a generator.
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Sep 29, 2019 01:22
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I use a combo of the two above, which I think is a bit more compact and efficient: (actually it's the same as the one on the left in the pic above I think Any design will work as long as you have a single tile leading to the top pump; the design works because only one type of gas can inhabit a tile at a time. The bottom pumps are twinned and all 4 of the top ones join into one pipe. I like heavi-watt because I don't feel like dealing with transformers for industrial stuff that dupes never see. Bhodi fucked around with this message at 06:14 on Sep 29, 2019 |
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Sep 29, 2019 05:34
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How do I / what's the code to enable the testing branch version? I'm hoping there's a slim chance it will actually run. I'm honestly getting pretty salty about the 1.0 version just not even launching.
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Sep 29, 2019 05:39
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metasynthetic posted:How do I / what's the code to enable the testing branch version? I'm hoping there's a slim chance it will actually run. I'm honestly getting pretty salty about the 1.0 version just not even launching. My 1.0 wouldn't load until I went in and cleared out all my saved games from pre-release and deleted the settings under user data.
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Sep 29, 2019 06:14
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Bhodi posted:there isn't one, it's just the "testing" branch under the beta tab. Your tip helped me, but for a dumb reason - I had originally set up a symlink dir to my dropbox to sync files with my laptop a long time ago, since uninstalled it on both, then deleted the target dropbox folder, and forgot all about everything. But the symlink was still there and ONI apparently couldn't handle it. Deleted the symlink and now it's working, so thanks! metasynthetic fucked around with this message at 08:04 on Sep 29, 2019 |
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Sep 29, 2019 07:59
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On a similar note, If anyone has problems with certain mods from the workshop failing to load due to no write access, try uninstalling and reinstalling the game. Mazz fucked around with this message at 15:26 on Sep 29, 2019 |
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Sep 29, 2019 14:41
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metasynthetic posted:Your tip helped me, but for a dumb reason - I had originally set up a symlink dir to my dropbox to sync files with my laptop a long time ago, since uninstalled it on both, then deleted the target dropbox folder, and forgot all about everything. But the symlink was still there and ONI apparently couldn't handle it. Deleted the symlink and now it's working, so thanks! 
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Sep 29, 2019 15:10
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Another note on the SPOM front, one other detail of my design that drives my thinking is that I generally use my cool slush sources to fuel the electrolyzers after piping that cold water throughout my base. This means I have to control the water flow so that it both fully feeds the electrolyzers and also doesn't back up and stop that cooling action in the pipes. To do this I valve the output of 2 different cool slush geysers to 1250g/s, this is just under their calcuated average output. This setting ensure I don't starve the source or the electrolyzers at any point so long as enough water is present during the dormant phase when I start the system. While electrolyzers technically need 1000g/s each, I've found that this is only true while running at full efficiency, sooner or later they will oxygenate the lines and slow down production, making ~80% of the flow rate a good set-and-forget value.   I also use the interior cool slush geyser as my storage point for all refined metal, steel, and plastic, simply because they get cooled to -10C while imparting essentially no heat to the water itself. The temperature of construction material will carry over to things built out of them.  Those 2 1250g streams are then piped around a significant portion of the base, providing temp transfer via regular granite pipe runs. They are seperate for the first ~50% of their runs, one cooling the large storage area and the other cooling the industrial and farming areas (as secondary cooling to the excessive hydrogen system I've put in place). They combine to a 2500g stream for the base run, being redirected as necessary to not provide too much cooling to the kitchen/bathroom areas. They also cool my oxyfern area at the bottom of the base since that is often fed with 85C water. Finally they loop back up and around to a sieve right before the electrolyzers that converts the PW into water.   I've added a little automated system at this loop to control the flow rate as necessary; if you don't put any safeguards on the system 2500g of water will eventually back the pipe up all the way back to the pumps because the electrolyzers do not need that much water when the space is fully oxygenated. This little loop is design so that once the pipe to the electrolyzers is full, water is sent into this loop. As soon as PW is detected by the pipe element sensor, it shuts off one of the slush water pumps, limiting the incoming flow to 1250g. In a minute or so this will cut the excess water in the pipe back down, emptying the loop which enables the second slush pump again. This keep everything flowing safely without any extra input needed from me. Currently using that wireless automation mod for this design, which is neat.   Here's the overall thermal view of that (and the hydrogen loop) in action: 
Mazz fucked around with this message at 15:32 on Sep 29, 2019 |
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Sep 29, 2019 15:28
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How do you handle early-mid game cooling when you are on a map without wheeze worts? I have 40 cycles until my cool slush geyser starts up and I'm starting to run into heating issue. I really shouldn't have started up distilling ethanol to power petroleum generators without already having cooling, but I managed to kill my hatches through neglect.
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Sep 30, 2019 01:52
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It’s not that hard to run an AETN if you have one of those. I tend to just run my oxygen through it and if anything it makes my base too cold. Not super elegant but it works.
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Sep 30, 2019 01:54
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You can cool down polluted water (say from your toilets) through an Aquatuner, dumping the heat somewhere insulated from your main base before dealing with it through a variety of solutions. Then you just pipe the results around to stabilize the temperatures of your main base at whatever you set your liquid temp sensor at. You can optionally build insulated pipes up until the place where you need cooling now or let the system eventually hit equilibrium on its own. Also of note, Hydrogen generators do not have outputs so it's one of the few machines still able to delete heat while you're pre-Steam Turbine. A more quick and dirty approach is Ice-E fans.
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Sep 30, 2019 02:14
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They actually made Ice-E fans decent when they changed them to use Ice and added the Ice maker. They are -32k DTUs while operating, which is ~5 wheezes. Dupe operation is what kills them long term. Also do not neglect thermo regulators ability to delete heat. They remove the same amount of heat (-14C) from gas that aquatuners do from liquids, but they only need 240w per regulator. You can pull -70C out of hydrogen for the same amount of power as 1 aquatuner doing -14C. Liquids tend to be more efficient per tile for temperature transfer but hydrogen works just fine in many, many cases.  
Mazz fucked around with this message at 02:29 on Sep 30, 2019 |
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Sep 30, 2019 02:22
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Mazz posted:Also do not neglect thermo regulators ability to delete heat. They remove the same amount of heat (-14C) from gas that aquatuners do from liquids, but they only need 240w per regulator. You can pull -70C out of hydrogen for the same amount of power as 1 aquatuner doing -14C. Liquids tend to be more efficient per tile for temperature transfer but hydrogen works just fine in many, many cases. Don't forget that gas pipes carry 1kg/packet of gas while liquid pipes carry 10kg. Dropping the temperature of 1kg of hydrogen by 70C is much less work done than dropping 10kg of polluted water by 14C. A thermo aquatuner moves over 17 times as much heat as a thermo regulator (polluted water vs hydrogen) for 5 times the power.
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Sep 30, 2019 02:36
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Aquatuners are much more efficient. If hydrogen cooling will work for you, you're better off using an aetn
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Sep 30, 2019 02:39
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Mazz posted:They actually made Ice-E fans decent when they changed them to use Ice and added the Ice maker. They are -32k DTUs while operating, which is ~5 wheezes. Dupe operation is what kills them long term. turning ice into a thermal tile and placing it in a hot location is great for cooling things down. I did that a bunch when my crops were too hot. You have to clean up the water when it melts, but it is better than having no crops growing. You can also leave the cool water hanging around after in bottles.
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Sep 30, 2019 02:46
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Triarii posted:Don't forget that gas pipes carry 1kg/packet of gas while liquid pipes carry 10kg. Dropping the temperature of 1kg of hydrogen by 70C is much less work done than dropping 10kg of polluted water by 14C. A thermo aquatuner moves over 17 times as much heat as a thermo regulator (polluted water vs hydrogen) for 5 times the power. True, I should clarify I'm not saying to use regulators in place of aquatuners, just that they are also an option, especially for low level heat management. A regulator "deletes" the same amount of heat as 5 wheezes for 240w. There are a good amount of early situations where 240W is tenable but 1200W kind of isn't. While it's not deleting the heat, you can just dump it somewhere else, like into a steam chamber or an area you don't give a poo poo about. For early/mid-game heat management, it's an underutilized option, especially now that maps without wheezes/AETNs exist. If you can jump straight to aquatuners instead, have at it. CainFortea posted:Aquatuners are much more efficient. If hydrogen cooling will work for you, you're better off using an aetn A lot of the maps without wheezes also don't have many to any AETNs, so without the mod to build them that's not really an option either. Mazz fucked around with this message at 03:13 on Sep 30, 2019 |
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Sep 30, 2019 03:02
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So, oxygen modules. I had a standard design that I used, but was impractically complicated. 4 full pipes of oxygen, 24 gas shutoffs, 24 pipe element sensors, 12 gas pumps, 8 electrolyzers, and a maze of pipes and bridges that would make the brave weep. Starting a new map I didn't feel like building this monstrosity again. So I turned to the internet for a design I had heard about that doesn't require anything to perfectly separate oxygen and hydrogen. I think it was called the hydra, though it doesn't really inspire the name. I would have gone with magic bubble if I was naming it.  The key to how this works is the behaviour of the electrolyzer when covered by liquids < 70 kg. It will try and output gas to the tile left of the top-left tile, then above the top-right. By covering the electroylzer with 2 liquids we can force gas to come out on those two tiles. If there is already gas in those tiles, hydrogen can only be placed on hydrogen tiles and oxygen on oxygen. By priming each side of the electroylzer with some gas you can ensure all gases go to their matching side. I put hydrogen on the bottom to demonstrate that. Under such a setup the electroylzers are never overpressure, even when the oxygen is at 500kg/tile. So with this setup the gas just keeps on flowing, building up to ridiculous levels. 100% uptime guaranteed, just provide water and power. The hydrogen can be used to make it self powering. On the right side of the screen shot I have 5 electrolyzers feeding 8 pumps to create 4 full pipes of oxygen. It would be smart to add pressure sensors so not to overproduce oxygen or in case of water loss pump out too much and create a vacuum. An almost identical setup works with rust deoxyidizers as well, minus the potential for self powering.
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Sep 30, 2019 03:46
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I'm struggling in my transition from coal to anything else. What should I be aiming for? I'm about mid game?
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Sep 30, 2019 04:33
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