There is a spectrum haunting C-SPAM. I, on the contrary,

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Kurnugia: Sep 2, 2014; by Nyc_Tattoo

anyone have a source handy, preferably with graphs and other stuff that might impress my lib father, about the change of living standards in the soviet union compared to the empires?

# ? Sep 28, 2019 12:38

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# ? Jun 5, 2024 21:27

Taintrunner: Apr 10, 2017; by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

How can you call yourself a tankie when you don't even own a T-34 https://atvtank.ru/catalog/Osnovnoj_razdel_73.html

Only $258,265!

# ? Sep 28, 2019 18:38

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

Kurnugia posted:

anyone have a source handy, preferably with graphs and other stuff that might impress my lib father, about the change of living standards in the soviet union compared to the empires?

quote:

According to CIA estimates, the annual rate of GNP growth over the 1928 - 1985 period was 4.3 percent (Fischer 1994). Comparing the Soviet growth record with that of the OECD and the United States, the annual average growth rate of GNP per capita in the Soviet Union equaled that of the OECD for the 1950-1980 period and exceeded that of the U.S. by a significant amount, at 3.3 versus 1.9 percent, respectively, from 1950 through 1980 (Table 1). In the last decade of the period, 1970 - 1980, GNP growth per capita was roughly similar in all three regions, averaging about 2 percent annually over those years. While it is clear that Soviet growth rates declined after the 1950s, the Soviet growth record in the postwar period nevertheless compares reasonably well with that of the developed market economies.3

Household consumption data also support the picture of rising living standards throughout this period; the growth in per capita household consumption met or exceeded the growth rates of household consumption in the OECD and the United States over the entire 1950-1980 period (Table 1), as Soviet leaders allowed consumption to grow relatively rapidly until the early 1980s. According to Gur Ofer, this created a “radical change in the quality of life in the Soviet Union” (Ofer 1987, p. 1790), with an increased variety and quality of goods leading to significant improvements in the standard of living. This progress was further enhanced by the massive expansion of the public health care system and educational facilities across the country, with the vast majority of these services provided for free by the government.4

3
(2003) and Rosefielde (2003) provide further debate on the postwar growth record, and Khanin (2003) focuses on the high-growth decade of the 1950s. Ofer (2005) provides an overview of the new estimates of Soviet growth and the continuing debate among scholars over Soviet growth performance.

Chernichovsky et al. (1996) and Tulchinsky and Varavikova (1996) provide useful overviews of 4
the development of the public health service in the USSR.

It is following World War II that a remarkably rapid and sizable increase in the stature of Soviet children occurred. From approximately 1945 to 1969, the average height of children increased from (roughly) the 10 to the 40 percentile of U.S. growth charts. These large gains in stature occurred across all of the Soviet republics for which data are available (Figure 3b), and also characterized the growth of children in many cities of the Russian republic (Figures 3a and 7). Rural children grew dramatically during this period as well, but the rate of increase was slower and the average percentile attained was lower than that of urban children (not shown).

By 1970 men in Russia reached an average height of nearly 177 cm, equal to that of U.S. men, and female height in Russia exceeded that of U.S. women by about one centimeter.

(it is easy to extrapolate health/food consumption/etc from how tall your kids get relative to other countries so they compare these)

The figure indicates that the increase in height between 1945 and 1980 was remarkably evenly distributed across the population, with men and women at the 10 percentile of the height distribution gaining approximately .10 cm annually over this period, compared with .13 cm and .11 cm for men and women, respectively, at the 90 percentile.

and so on

The significant increase in female education levels in this period – the share of women with secondary or more education increased from 9.3 to 34.5 percent between 1939 and 1959 – likely also played a role in improving child health status. Other factors that may have contributed include urbanization, particularly the increase in the population with access to clean water and central heating, and the improvement in the caloric and nutrient content of the food supply.

and so on

VI. Conclusion

Did the standard of living rise or fall in the Soviet Union over the twentieth century? The conventional measures of GNP growth and household consumption indicate a long, uninterrupted upward climb in the Soviet standard of living from 1928 to 1985; even Western estimates of these measures support this view, albeit at a slower rate of growth than the Soviet measures.

Reassessing the Standard of Living in the Soviet Union: An Analysis Using Archival and Anthropometric Data
Elizabeth Brainerd*
Williams College
CEPR, IZA and WDI

# ? Sep 28, 2019 18:43

Kurnugia: Sep 2, 2014; by Nyc_Tattoo

thanks, that's what i was looking for by foargetting the name of that paper

# ? Sep 28, 2019 18:52

Kurnugia: Sep 2, 2014; by Nyc_Tattoo

amazingly, my father who claims to have voted for the finnish republican equivalent party for his whole life is actually capable of reasonable debate when presented with poo poo like that

# ? Sep 28, 2019 18:55

Atrocious Joe: Sep 2, 2011

Taintrunner posted:

How can you call yourself a tankie when you don't even own a T-34 https://atvtank.ru/catalog/Osnovnoj_razdel_73.html

Only $258,265!

Goon Project: let's buy a tank to own the libs

# ? Sep 28, 2019 18:59

Dreddout: Oct 1, 2015; You must stay drunk on writing so reality cannot destroy you.

Atrocious Joe posted:

Goon Project: let's buy a tank to own the libs

Send the tanks into d&d

# ? Sep 28, 2019 19:20

freckle: Apr 6, 2016; by Nyc_Tattoo

Jon Joe posted:

Alexa, commence revolution.

# ? Sep 28, 2019 19:24

Raskolnikov38: Mar 3, 2007; We were somewhere around Manila when the drugs began to take hold

a quarter of a mil is insanely overpriced for a t-34, they usually go for a fourth of that

# ? Sep 28, 2019 19:43

Jose: Jul 24, 2007; Adrian Chiles is a broadcaster and writer

https://twitter.com/qanonisrael/status/1177410879601762305
https://twitter.com/EdOpgrand/status/1177960677513797633?s=20

# ? Sep 30, 2019 00:10

Poniard: Apr 3, 2011

my copy of the marx engels reader is falling apart rip

# ? Sep 30, 2019 00:11

R. Guyovich: Dec 25, 1991

Poniard posted:

my copy of the marx engels reader is falling apart rip

all the more reason to get the marx-engels collected works

# ? Sep 30, 2019 04:37

Ruzihm: Aug 11, 2010; Group up and push mid, proletariat!

https://gfycat.com/sorrowfulsnarlingcougar

# ? Sep 30, 2019 18:44

BrutalistMcDonalds: Oct 4, 2012; Lipstick Apathy

You know, that article about the old Muslim lady being forced to drink alcohol and violate her religious beliefs sincerely enrages me more than anything else being done to the uyghur somehow.

It just violates my sensibilities at some fundamental level, I can't really describe it, thats how instinctual the revulsion is.

# ? Oct 1, 2019 18:05

Pener Kropoopkin: Jan 30, 2013; by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
(and can't post for 23 days!)

BrutalistMcDonalds posted:

You know, that article about the old Muslim lady being forced to drink alcohol and violate her religious beliefs sincerely enrages me more than anything else being done to the uyghur somehow.

It just violates my sensibilities at some fundamental level, I can't really describe it, thats how instinctual the revulsion is.

Wrong thread but that video was also fake.

# ? Oct 1, 2019 18:13

BrutalistMcDonalds: Oct 4, 2012; Lipstick Apathy

Pener Kropoopkin posted:

Wrong thread but that video was also fake.

lol it's from that other thread

you know

# ? Oct 1, 2019 18:16

Pener Kropoopkin: Jan 30, 2013; by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
(and can't post for 23 days!)

BrutalistMcDonalds posted:

lol it's from that other thread

you know

I actually forgot somebody posted that lmao

# ? Oct 1, 2019 18:38

R. Guyovich: Dec 25, 1991

ToxicSlurpee posted:

For a lot of people their motivation is not love of the poor but hatred of the wealthy. Sometimes it's just raw envy; it's totally possible to do pretty well for yourself doing productive things but you get people that are furious at anybody that makes more than a certain number of dollars a year. I've seen that number as low as $30,000.

Yes, I'm totally sure that cabinet maker pulling $60,000 is a bougie gently caress keeping the proles down. Totally.

punk rebel ecks posted:

The thing the bewilders me is how tankies continue to believe in an economic and political system that has continuously failed.

Large scale nationalizations with strong executive orders and control is a recipe for disaster. Yet they still defend shitbag governments like in Venezuela.

Pharohman777 posted:

From my experience in the D&D Venezuela thread, right below that is the tendency to say that any negative reporting on a subject that a tankie doesn't like is means that the news outlet is 'reporting US state department propaganda'.

Pharohman777 posted:

It feels like they assume that the US government has absolute ironclad control over news media and businesses like china does.

punk rebel ecks posted:

There is a spectrum of how effective something is. Liberal "democratic" capitalism is hardly the ideal system or the end game, but it is superior to Marxist Lenninism which struggles to provide a similar quality of life in both income and social justice, as well as having a terrible track record for freedom.

The only thing it does better is with income inequality, but even that is abused substantially.

Just because both things are bad doesn't make one thing not better than the other, nor does it mean that there isn't an alternative to both.

Tankies should accept that the "vanguard party" outlook is bullshit and should look into cooperatives, nationalizations but crafting them around new government branches elected by the residents, participatory budgeting, etc. Rather than retrying the same failed system.

# ? Oct 4, 2019 23:17

Serf: May 5, 2011

i love how that one poster goes from "nationalization is bad" to "they should look into nationalization"

# ? Oct 5, 2019 00:00

Atrocious Joe: Sep 2, 2011

every time someone posts complaining about tankies the revolution gets pushed back 1 day

# ? Oct 5, 2019 00:19

R. Guyovich: Dec 25, 1991

it's me, the anarchist and/or leftcom that's bewildered there are right-wingers in the making fun of tankies thread

# ? Oct 5, 2019 00:24

BrutalistMcDonalds: Oct 4, 2012; Lipstick Apathy

what's the deal with leftcoms? they say they're coms, but also the left -- but those are the same things. why do they have to be more left than the other communists? who the hell are these guys???

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_V2sBURgUBI

# ? Oct 5, 2019 00:40

R. Guyovich: Dec 25, 1991

i was in line at the dmv the other day. boy it took a while, huh? hey anytime you're ready to start withering away, state, be my guest!

# ? Oct 5, 2019 00:46

GalacticAcid: Apr 8, 2013; NEW YORK VALUES

R. Guyovich posted:

i was in line at the dmv the other day. boy it took a while, huh? hey anytime you're ready to start withering away, state, be my guest!

# ? Oct 5, 2019 00:57

BrutalistMcDonalds: Oct 4, 2012; Lipstick Apathy

left-communism. have you ever noticed ... a lot of negative associations with the word left? "left-handed compliments." "'what are we having for dinner?' 'leftovers.'" you go to a party, there�s nobody there. "where�d they go?' 'they left.'"

# ? Oct 5, 2019 01:03

GalacticAcid: Apr 8, 2013; NEW YORK VALUES

Lol I love these

# ? Oct 5, 2019 01:08

Dreddout: Oct 1, 2015; You must stay drunk on writing so reality cannot destroy you.

R. Guyovich posted:

i was in line at the dmv the other day. boy it took a while, huh? hey anytime you're ready to start withering away, state, be my guest!

BrutalistMcDonalds posted:

left-communism. have you ever noticed ... a lot of negative associations with the word left? "left-handed compliments." "'what are we having for dinner?' 'leftovers.'" you go to a party, there’s nobody there. "where’d they go?' 'they left.'"

Lmao

# ? Oct 5, 2019 01:30

Victory Position: Mar 16, 2004

R. Guyovich posted:

i was in line at the dmv the other day. boy it took a while, huh? hey anytime you're ready to start withering away, state, be my guest!

there were lines, Jerry! LINES! I was told there would BE no lines! Organized! LINES!

# ? Oct 5, 2019 01:42

Victory Position: Mar 16, 2004

BrutalistMcDonalds posted:

left-communism. have you ever noticed ... a lot of negative associations with the word left? "left-handed compliments." "'what are we having for dinner?' 'leftovers.'" you go to a party, there�s nobody there. "where�d they go?' 'they left.'"

holy poo poo

# ? Oct 5, 2019 01:43

atelier morgan: Mar 11, 2003; super-scientific, ultra-gay; Lipstick Apathy

Homeless Friend posted:

Its dependent on how the gui is designed. Regular windows and browsers and all mouse oriented, so it'll always make sense to use a mouse.

gui design is exactly the sort of thing go fast break things apps have zero interest in improving or spending money on so we're going to have superior mouse oriented ux forever

# ? Oct 5, 2019 01:44

Raskolnikov38: Mar 3, 2007; We were somewhere around Manila when the drugs began to take hold

Victory Position posted:

there were lines, Jerry! LINES! I was told there would BE no lines! Organized! LINES!

just remember jerry, its not revisionism, if you believe it

# ? Oct 5, 2019 01:48

Peanut President: Nov 5, 2008; by Athanatos

"and what is the deal with the new deal?? it's not a deal, the government just foisted it upon us without our consent; and it's not new, it's just shinier capitalism!"

# ? Oct 5, 2019 02:34

jarofpiss: May 16, 2009

R. Guyovich posted:

i was in line at the dmv the other day. boy it took a while, huh? hey anytime you're ready to start withering away, state, be my guest!

BrutalistMcDonalds posted:

left-communism. have you ever noticed ... a lot of negative associations with the word left? "left-handed compliments." "'what are we having for dinner?' 'leftovers.'" you go to a party, there�s nobody there. "where�d they go?' 'they left.'"

lmao

# ? Oct 5, 2019 06:09

Doktor Avalanche: Dec 30, 2008

BrutalistMcDonalds posted:

left-communism. have you ever noticed ... a lot of negative associations with the word left? "left-handed compliments." "'what are we having for dinner?' 'leftovers.'" you go to a party, there�s nobody there. "where�d they go?' 'they left.'"

this is gold

# ? Oct 5, 2019 09:48

Larry Parrish: Jul 9, 2012; by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

BrutalistMcDonalds posted:

left-communism. have you ever noticed ... a lot of negative associations with the word left? "left-handed compliments." "'what are we having for dinner?' 'leftovers.'" you go to a party, there’s nobody there. "where’d they go?' 'they left.'"

# ? Oct 5, 2019 16:47

Finicums Wake: Mar 13, 2017; Can't post for 8 years!

R. Guyovich posted:

i was in line at the dmv the other day. boy it took a while, huh? hey anytime you're ready to start withering away, state, be my guest!

lol

BrutalistMcDonalds posted:

left-communism. have you ever noticed ... a lot of negative associations with the word left? "left-handed compliments." "'what are we having for dinner?' 'leftovers.'" you go to a party, there�s nobody there. "where�d they go?' 'they left.'"

lmao

# ? Oct 5, 2019 16:59

Flavius Aetass: Mar 30, 2011

Not familiar with left-communism. It seems to be what most of us want, but in practice is mostly contrarians protesting the people implementing really existing socialism? Is that accurate?

# ? Oct 5, 2019 19:48

Karl Barks: Jan 21, 1981

Flavius Aetass posted:

Not familiar with left-communism. It seems to be what most of us want, but in practice is mostly contrarians protesting the people implementing really existing socialism? Is that accurate?

it's whatever you want it to mean, friend

# ? Oct 5, 2019 20:04

Homeless Friend: Jul 16, 2007

how about some deft-communism

# ? Oct 5, 2019 20:06

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# ? Jun 5, 2024 21:27

uncop: Oct 23, 2010

Flavius Aetass posted:

Not familiar with left-communism. It seems to be what most of us want, but in practice is mostly contrarians protesting the people implementing really existing socialism? Is that accurate?

You mean the people implementing red capitalism, but yes. Really existing left communist praxis is about feeling intellectually superior, trying to show how basically no one in either the revolutionary or the reformist marxist tradition understood Marx.

The greatest achievement of left communists after WW2 was an offshoot ending up inspiring anarcho-primitivism.

# ? Oct 5, 2019 20:33

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