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Play posted:a draw is a cowardly run play... faking the pass instead of just ramming it down their throat... probably why it didn't work for Freddy Yes to be true to doctrine, the defence has to believe you're running and you still run it anyway.
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Sep 26, 2019 19:51
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except draws where the QB's schemed to run the ball if he doesn't hand it off a run-run option if you will
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Sep 26, 2019 20:06
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Leperflesh posted:except draws where the QB's schemed to run the ball if he doesn't hand it off aka a zone read? usually a draw isn't so much an option play as a play fake. the draw is always going to happen one way or another, which is good, but it also is a fake pass, which while better than a real pass is still bad
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Sep 26, 2019 20:28
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I watch a lot of games so I can't recall which one it was but I saw an example this past weekend. QB has a handoff to RB running up the gut, he's watching an outside linebacker to see if that guy moves inside as he goes for the handoff. If he does, QB keeps the ball and tries for an outside run; if he doesn't, he lets the RB keep the ball. There's no intention to try a pass so I don't know if it makes sense to call it a zone read, maybe?
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Sep 26, 2019 20:35
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Leperflesh posted:I watch a lot of games so I can't recall which one it was but I saw an example this past weekend. QB has a handoff to RB running up the gut, he's watching an outside linebacker to see if that guy moves inside as he goes for the handoff. If he does, QB keeps the ball and tries for an outside run; if he doesn't, he lets the RB keep the ball. There's no intention to try a pass so I don't know if it makes sense to call it a zone read, maybe? extremely blessed play call.
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Sep 26, 2019 20:37
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Yeah that's just zone read or read option, where the QB can keep it or hand off. The ~ * RPO * ~ is a newer, heretical variant that gives the QB the choice of passing or rushing which deserves to be mocked and shunned. in conclusion: deedee megadoodoo posted:extremely blessed play call.
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Sep 26, 2019 20:55
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RPOs have been around forever at lower levels, but like anything it takes decades before the NFL tries anything new
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Sep 26, 2019 21:04
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Semantics nitpick: a zone read is only properly used to refer to a play in which the quarterback has the option to hand it off or to run with it where the OL is also using zone blocking. The phrase "read option" is more generic and can refer to zone reads and power reads, where at least one member of the OL pulls in a power run style. The power read is truly an establishing-the-run play because having pulling linemen is truly the holiest thing one can do.
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Sep 26, 2019 21:14
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opposable thumbs.db posted:Semantics nitpick: a zone read is only properly used to refer to a play in which the quarterback has the option to hand it off or to run with it where the OL is also using zone blocking. The phrase "read option" is more generic and can refer to zone reads and power reads, where at least one member of the OL pulls in a power run style. The power read is truly an establishing-the-run play because having pulling linemen is truly the holiest thing one can do. buddy, you're even BETTER than opposable thumbs!! I think zone read gets thrown around a lot because a zone run makes the most sense in a read option play, so the ones you see the most often will be zone blocking. The quarterback threatens the edge, preventing the edge defender from pursuing the ball carrier down the line of scrimmage, while the ball carrier is now running against a lighter box. Alternately, the edge defender crashes down and it's up to the quarterback to get the edge. It's good because it all happens very quickly, the blockers engage right away whereas the pullers in the power read cause it to have more moving parts and thus be a bit more difficult to execute. I'm assuming here, but I'd guess that power read is a lot more common in college ball than the NFL. I know Cam Newton used to run it a little bit, but I do not see it very often overall. https://vimeo.com/151487389 Also, I agree entirely with you: pulling blockers are beloved of all right thinking people. Zone runs are all well and good and they have their place, but power, trap and counter runs are so fun to watch when they're executed well, plus optimally you'll get to see a pancake block of some kind
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Sep 26, 2019 22:18
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The double reverse is the holiest of plays, because you have three separate runners on the same play, one of whom is usually a wide receiver. I think the ultimate running play would be a double reverse where the final runner runs it up the gut with the QB lead blocking.
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Sep 26, 2019 22:47
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How have you all forgotten about the triple option? You guys need to watch a lot more Army Navy games.
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Sep 26, 2019 22:53
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Worthy week 3 winners imo https://youtu.be/b0lx7c6ylk8
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Sep 26, 2019 23:54
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Finger Prince posted:The double reverse is the holiest of plays, because you have three separate runners on the same play, one of whom is usually a wide receiver. You know how they have "dual threat" QBs and "running" QBs and "pocket passer" QBs and such? Well in my opinion there should be a third type, lead blocking QB. A specialized athlete not dissimilar to a cross between a fullback and a tackle, who hands the ball off and proceeds to lead block on every single play
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Sep 27, 2019 00:27
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Kitchens needs to run the wishbone again this year.
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Sep 27, 2019 00:33
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Finger Prince posted:The double reverse is the holiest of plays, because you have three separate runners on the same play, one of whom is usually a wide receiver. drat that would be swell!
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Sep 27, 2019 01:29
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Play posted:You know how they have "dual threat" QBs and "running" QBs and "pocket passer" QBs and such? Well in my opinion there should be a third type, lead blocking QB. A specialized athlete not dissimilar to a cross between a fullback and a tackle, who hands the ball off and proceeds to lead block on every single play RIP Battleship Lorenzen
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Sep 27, 2019 01:32
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jamaal williams honorary run establisher of TNF for maintaining possession while unconscious
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Sep 27, 2019 01:49
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Bird in a Blender posted:How have you all forgotten about the triple option? You guys need to watch a lot more Army Navy games. The flexbone is the true way to play football. Honorable mention to this Wisconsin formation: https://twitter.com/taddmike/status/1176128701622366208 (rest assured the player not in the picture is a tailback)
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Sep 27, 2019 03:53
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Grittybeard posted:Honorable mention to this Wisconsin formation  that's a lotta beef on one football field
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Sep 27, 2019 20:56
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Docjowles posted:
Like, why is the defense even fielding any DBs here?
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Sep 27, 2019 21:05
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Grittybeard posted:Like, why is the defense even fielding any DBs here? Play action passes out of heavy are not super uncommon. You see them constantly on the goal line. All part of the game of setting up your opponent to expect one thing and delivering them another
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Sep 27, 2019 22:08
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Play posted:Play action passes out of heavy are not super uncommon. You see them constantly on the goal line. All part of the game of setting up your opponent to expect one thing and delivering them another Yeeessss, but literally everyone there can be covered by a linebacker. Maybe throw in one safety for the tailback. None of those dudes are moving fast. They're moving strong. e: Anyway we've gone afield from the conversation. This formation wasn't a trick. It established the run, and it worked. Grittybeard fucked around with this message at 22:11 on Sep 27, 2019 |
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Sep 27, 2019 22:09
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Jonathan Taylor is fast and strong. If the defense goes all beef and he makes it into the secondary there's no chance of being him down
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Sep 27, 2019 22:10
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Hot Diggity! posted:Jonathan Taylor is fast and strong. If the defense goes all beef and he makes it into the secondary there's no chance of being him down It's also the case that sometimes going heavy in response is not actually the right choice, a quicker player is more likely to be in the right spot to make a stop while if you go heavy on defense and they're caught out of position you're boned regardless, I appreciate that formation very much. there was actually a pretty good Navy game on youtube the other night with their triple option wishbone thing. It's a neat scheme because it's difficult to defend regardless of whether you know it's coming or not
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Sep 27, 2019 22:37
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Play posted:It's also the case that sometimes going heavy in response is not actually the right choice, a quicker player is more likely to be in the right spot to make a stop while if you go heavy on defense and they're caught out of position you're boned Yea the triple option can be a great scheme in college when executed well. It’s all deception, and forcing the defense to cover left, right, and up the middle. It’s also old school in that it’s designed to get like 4-5 yards and just chug your way down the field.
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Sep 28, 2019 01:01
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Jags established the heck out of the run vs. the Broncos. 38 attempts for 269 yards, averaging 7.1 per. Denver did... not
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Sep 30, 2019 15:20
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mastershakeman posted:Bears are likely playing without their best interior lineman so the vikes should be successful as long as they don't abandon the run and throw end zone picks like against the packers Turns out that missing Hicks and Roquan Smith didn't matter. Vikings didn't establish anything yesterday.
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Sep 30, 2019 15:40
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The Zack posted:Jags established the heck out of the run vs. the Broncos. 38 attempts for 269 yards, averaging 7.1 per. Denver did... not And they ran their way to the comeback too, bonus points for keeping the faith and Establishing
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Sep 30, 2019 16:22
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I just realized something while looking at the Raiders’ stat line or 32 run to 31 pass*, are we taking into account kneeling? It is not establishing the run, perhaps it is celebrating successful establishment of the run at the end of a game, but what about at the end of the first half? *Obviously they won, vs the last two weeks of losing with a ~0.5 run/pass ratio. Edit: also used their new WR to help establish the run: https://twitter.com/NFL/status/1178359560769167360 japtor fucked around with this message at 16:26 on Sep 30, 2019 |
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Sep 30, 2019 16:23
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Bird in a Blender posted:Turns out that missing Hicks and Roquan Smith didn't matter. Vikings didn't establish anything yesterday. Bad play calling. For instance, first play after halftime the Vikings opted to pass and immediately got sacked and fumbled
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Sep 30, 2019 16:24
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Vando posted:And they ran their way to the comeback too, bonus points for keeping the faith and Establishing Good point. Can't come back if the other team has the ball
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Sep 30, 2019 17:08
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Cardinals rushed 23 times for 115 yards. With 32 passing attempts this is clearly a pass-favoring offense, hence the loss. Seahawks rushed 27 times for 115 yards. Only won because they faced the cards. With 28 passing attempts, this "balanced" approach is not adequately Establishing The Run. Rams rushed 11 times for 28 yards. Pathetic. Lost to the Bucs. Should be summarily ejected from the NFC West for such a terrible abandonment of The Run. Niners on bye. No doubt they are wisely using their time off to Study the Run. Honorary NFC West team and two time Establish The Run Champions the Minnesota Vikings rushed 16 times for 40 yards and lost to a Bears team whose QB left early in the 1st and subsequently ran 33 times for 72 yards. Humiliating. I think this week's champion may be the Jacksonville Jaguars, who rushed 38 times for 269 yards and completed only 19 of 33 passing attempts for a mere 186 yards. Leonard Fournette's 29/225 stat led the league this week. This run-heavy approach led the Jags to a narrow victory over the Broncos, who themselves only attempted 16 runs. e. The Ravens have the league lead in all rushing yards through week 4, with 140 attempts for 823 yards. The niners are in second place despite only playing 75% as many games. https://www.espn.com/nfl/stats/team/_/view/offense/stat/rushing/table/rushing/sort/rushingYardsPerGame/dir/desc This chart bears watching. Leperflesh fucked around with this message at 22:58 on Sep 30, 2019 |
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Sep 30, 2019 22:54
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Yeah it was a disappointing week for establishing the run. Which you wouldn't necessarily figure, given how low-scoring a lot of these games were and how much trouble teams had moving through the air. What can you say, a bunch of bad teams who turn their face from the run the second there is any resistance. Faithless cowards, all! The Jacksonville Jaguars being the least so, but I'm deeply disappointed in you all
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Sep 30, 2019 23:01
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Play posted:Yeah it was a disappointing week for establishing the run. Which you wouldn't necessarily figure, given how low-scoring a lot of these games were and how much trouble teams had moving through the air. There's still a chance for Cincinatti to establish the run. gently caress the Steelers.
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Oct 1, 2019 00:43
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Mystic Stylez posted:Mike Gillislee in week 17 of 2006 recorded amazing 28 yards on 24 rushing attempts with 0 TDs, that's some extreme run establishment right there Reminds me of this great moment in establishing the run https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Chicago_Bears%E2%80%93Arizona_Cardinals_game Edgerrin James ran 36 times for a total of 55 yards, a 1.52 YPC. Never in NFL history has a player had less than 2 YPC when rushing more than 30 times. Also his longest run of the day was 12 yards, so if you take that away, you're looking at 1.22 YPC on 35 runs. You can't establish more than that!
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Oct 1, 2019 15:12
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I think we can name the Jacksonville Jaguars week 4 winners, collectively purge this week from our memory, and pray that some brave team answers the call in week 5
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Oct 2, 2019 17:58
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Tennessee Runs 34 Ratio 1.26 Total Yards 138 Yards Per 4.1 Philadelphia 33 Ratio1.22 Total Yards 79 Yards Per 2.4 New York 37 Ratio1.19 Total Yards 164 Yards Per 4.4 Jacksonville 38 Ratio1.15 Total Yards 269 Yards Per 7.1 Jags ratio little lower, but they had the most yards, and ran the best. Play has 1 vote Jags. I'm throwing a vote toward the Titans because they had good ration, and 2nd least pass attempts of anyone this week. Vote away
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Oct 3, 2019 07:27
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I'm still gonna vote for the Vikings primarily because of crippling homerism but also because Cousins was sacked 6 times for -51 yards. Since there was no pass or kick involved, these should therefore be counted as de facto run plays and thus results in a team effort of 22 runs for -11 yards. This thread has previously established ( ) that yards gained are not necessarily a criteria for weekly champion consideration, more important is the commitment to the run. And since they trailed the entire game, there is no greater boneheaded example of trying to establish the run this week.If we're going to bring up run/pass play ratios then I submit that just because Kirk happens to flail his stupid arms and a football then happens to fall forward, sometimes in an arc and sometimes downfield it is way too disingenuous to call those actions "passes" and should therefore not be counted.
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Oct 3, 2019 08:23
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With the ratio so close Im gonna go with the ones who traveled the furthest distance on each prayer to the Gods of the Run
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Oct 3, 2019 08:59
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Jags for establishing the comeback e: just checked and 10 of Tennessee's 34 rush attempts came on their final drive while up 2 scores. Shameful use of the run, imo. Vando fucked around with this message at 09:21 on Oct 3, 2019 |
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Oct 3, 2019 09:16
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