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Fangz posted:That was two weeks ago. that post literally went through the whole thread, quoted every post that had said anything bad about alphys, and then went on a rant about each individual post i remember seeing myself quoted in it and going "wait, when did I post that?" The answer? June.
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Sep 30, 2019 23:11
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nine-gear crow posted:Which is a weird tact to take because her principle flaws, outside of crippling insecurity, is just plain incompetence and blame-shifting. She's responsible for Asriel becoming a soulless monster flower, what happened to the Amalgams, and helping Asgore with his insanely lovely plan to break the Barrier, and largely just kind of coasted to disaster off the back of all of Gaster's already misbegotten work. And then keeps the victims of her medical experiments imprisoned in her basement.
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Sep 30, 2019 23:12
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I like Alphys as a character. I have nothing against people who dislike Alphys as a character. That is all.
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Sep 30, 2019 23:13
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The reason people think it's funny or weird that you personally dislike alphys is because she's a character in a game whose actions don't actually have any real moral consequences. They expect you to respond to the type of character she is : awkward, Stumbling, anxious and self sabotaging, with the level of empathy and warm heartedness that is hard to have for people who are like that IRL because their actions do have consequences. So then when you do actually IRL have distaste for her it's weird because the whole arc of the game is about having compassion for people who are Like That. I can see why you'd maybe have a hard time if you have baggage with that type of person. Or if they remind you of old people you used to know, or used to be. That tends to be the goon response anyway. But it's not like, surprising. It's like if you walked from the lion king saying "drat, Simba was right. He did kind of kill his dad".
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Sep 30, 2019 23:17
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most of alphys’ misadventures suggest she’s a brilliant engineer but a lousy scientist (and if DR is anything to go by, an even worse teacher) she’s really yet another victim of the malaise that’s afflicted the whole kingdom between their long imprisonment and Asriel’s death, it’s just that her particular character flaws and position in the underground let her do a lot more damage than most in her attempts to help everyone
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Sep 30, 2019 23:18
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Danaru posted:I'm genuinely curious what it is about disliking Alphys that sets people off. People always try to psychoanalyze you like you must hate Alphys because you hate women, or because you project onto her and are self loathing, or because you're homophobic. it's also especially weird because they still do this even if you love Undyne who is equally gay and a woman. I feel like there's a kind of person who really, really, really identifies with alphys and gets internet weird about it to the point where they take people saying bad things about her as a personal attack, or something. I don't see any other explanation for why people would get like that about that specific character, even with a game like undertale that is notoriously magnetic towards obsessive internet weirdos. Like, there's no Asgore defence force that will parachute in to talk about how you're prejudiced against hairy dads when you talk poo poo about him.
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Sep 30, 2019 23:19
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SirSamVimes posted:I like Alphys as a character. I like her as a character but dislike her as a person.
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Sep 30, 2019 23:21
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cock hero flux posted:Like, there's no Asgore defence force that will parachute in to talk about how you're prejudiced against hairy dads when you talk poo poo about him. I had to reschedule my skydiving lessons, cut me some slack My issue with Alphys hate can be summed up as follows: I once saw a post that suggested Undyne, the ex-criminal who attempts to kill a child and lies constantly to her best friend in order to avoid having a difficult conversation with him, is "too good" for Alphys, and I've been impotently furious about it ever since. Fundamentally a lot of people are willing to give Toriel, Undyne, and ESPECIALLY Sans more slack by comparison, and it's dumb.
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Sep 30, 2019 23:25
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The only good and unproblematic characters are Onion-san and the tiny Gap Bird anyway
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Sep 30, 2019 23:28
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I don't know how to explain this to you guys but my reason for quoting that insane nonsense wasn't because I had strong opinions on a game maker sprite
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Sep 30, 2019 23:32
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cock hero flux posted:it's also especially weird because they still do this even if you love Undyne who is equally gay and a woman. I feel like there's a kind of person who really, really, really identifies with alphys and gets internet weird about it to the point where they take people saying bad things about her as a personal attack, or something. I don't see any other explanation for why people would get like that about that specific character, even with a game like undertale that is notoriously magnetic towards obsessive internet weirdos. Like, there's no Asgore defence force that will parachute in to talk about how you're prejudiced against hairy dads when you talk poo poo about him. i imagine some tech and science workers who are constantly teetering between imposter syndrome and guilt over the ethical dubiousness of their work under neoliberal capitalism identify pretty strongly with her, exaggerated though her circumstances might be, and might take attacks on her a bit personally. i don't think other characters are quite as "relatable" as she is in that way even as they can be quite likeable.
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Sep 30, 2019 23:34
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MaxieSatan posted:The only good and unproblematic characters are Onion-san and the tiny Gap Bird anyway The tiny gap bird carries you across to the tune of Alphys' theme. It's not innocent either CYBEReris posted:i imagine some tech and science workers who are constantly teetering between imposter syndrome and guilt over the ethical dubiousness of their work under neoliberal capitalism identify pretty strongly with her, exaggerated though her circumstances might be, and might take attacks on her a bit personally. i don't think other characters are quite as "relatable" as she is in that way even as they can be quite likeable. Yeah, Alphys' flaws are very real. You probably don't know any Papyruses or Undines or Asgores, but you probably know an Alphys.
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Sep 30, 2019 23:34
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MaxieSatan posted:I had to reschedule my skydiving lessons, cut me some slack as someone who is willing to cut that exact slack, allow me to explain: Undyne tries to murder Frisk. This is a bad thing, and is, taken in a vacuum, worse than anything Alphys does. But, this is for the sake of Undyne's entire civilization. This is a bad thing that she does with a good goal in mind. That does not make the bad thing good, but it is, overall, sympathetic. Someone in a terrible situation doing a bad thing because they see no other option, and with the goal of saving their entire civilization. I'm sympathetic. Same logic applies to the rest of that list, and Asgore. People in a bad situation doing bad things because they see no other choice. I don't think that makes them bad people. Now, you look at Alphys. I'll cut her some slack on the whole hosed up experiments angle: I think that falls under the same category as the above. You do what you gotta do. What I don't cut her slack on is the fact that the game's entire third act is her loving with a small child and putting them in quite dangerous situations with absolutely no noble goal in mind. She just does it to feel important. She siccs a murder robot on a small child because she wants to look cool. Is this as bad as actively attempting child murder? No, but it has absolutely no sympathetic motivation behind it. It's honestly kind of psychotic. That's why she's a bad person: rather than doing bad things in a bad situation for a good reason, she does bad things in a neutral situation for practically no reason.
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Sep 30, 2019 23:35
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MaxieSatan posted:The only good and unproblematic characters are Onion-san and the tiny Gap Bird anyway update: tiny gap bird is a racist
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Sep 30, 2019 23:35
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cock hero flux posted:I like her as a character but dislike her as a person. Alphys is just a type of annoying that people actually encounter a lot irl, so it's easier to actually parse her flaws in a relatable way.
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Sep 30, 2019 23:36
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Is deltarune as good as undertale? also lmao if you don't like Alphys.
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Sep 30, 2019 23:37
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cock hero flux posted:I like her as a character but dislike her as a person. I'm largely ambivalent on her. She's an absolute garbage fire disaster who has done some amazingly horrific things, yet I can't muster the energy to actively hate her. Or really anyone in Undertale's cast. Except Jerry.
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Sep 30, 2019 23:37
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Turtlicious posted:Is deltarune as good as undertale? It is, obviously, much less complete, so you can't really compare the plots. But as first chapters go, I think Deltarune's is better than Undertale's in both mechanics and writing.
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Sep 30, 2019 23:39
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cock hero flux posted:Now, you look at Alphys. I'll cut her some slack on the whole hosed up experiments angle: I think that falls under the same category as the above. You do what you gotta do. What I don't cut her slack on is the fact that the game's entire third act is her loving with a small child and putting them in quite dangerous situations with absolutely no noble goal in mind. She just does it to feel important. She siccs a murder robot on a small child because she wants to look cool. Is this as bad as actively attempting child murder? No, but it has absolutely no sympathetic motivation behind it. It's honestly kind of psychotic. That's why she's a bad person: rather than doing bad things in a bad situation for a good reason, she does bad things in a neutral situation for practically no reason. um, her goal is to prevent the small child from entering a situation that can only end in either the child's death or the death of alphys's best friend.
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Sep 30, 2019 23:39
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Well, to be fair, I might have some strong words for posters who disparaged the actual best character, but half of Papyrus’ appeal is that he is pure and blameless. Impermanent posted:It's like if you walked from the lion king saying "drat, Simba was right. He did kind of kill his dad". Uh, hold on. Is that supposed to be some kind of hot take?
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Sep 30, 2019 23:43
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nine-gear crow posted:I'm largely ambivalent on her. She's an absolute garbage fire disaster who has done some amazingly horrific things, yet I can't muster the energy to actively hate her. Or really anyone in Undertale's cast. I'm in the same boat, I 'dislike' her compared to the rest of the cast, but that's still high enough for me to like her. Like I'd hang around with her but I'd bust out "hey remember when you nearly got me killed repeatedly so you could cosplay Hackerman" any time she sassed me. I genuinely do like everyone in the game just to different degrees. nine-gear crow posted:Except Jerry.
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Sep 30, 2019 23:44
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Papyrus is annoying and him getting to live is the one downside to the pacifist route.
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Sep 30, 2019 23:45
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Alphys is a mixed bag because on one hand she does basically run Frisk through a gauntlet of deadly lasers, but on the other hand she's had to deal with results of experiments that are basically nightmares. Could probably make an argument that there's some deep mental trauma in that whole mess. Beyond that, I think it's important to remember that the initial result of the experiment appeared positive before everything kinda turned into mush. E: I also think that it's a little silly to particularly focus on Alphys's theatrics (where they were intended to not be harmful) given that every other monster is basically trying to kill you, intentionally or not.
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Sep 30, 2019 23:49
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Alphys is the Vriska of Undertale, vis a vis quantity and quality of posts.
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Sep 30, 2019 23:49
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A big flaming stink posted:um, her goal is to prevent the small child from entering a situation that can only end in either the child's death or the death of alphys's best friend. yeah it's not, though having a murder robot menace this child and then showing up to save them and look cool does not, in any way, impede the child from reaching asgore. if that was the actual goal she could just get the invincible robot to pick up the child and put it in room that locks from the outside, and then not tell asgore it was there. easiest thing in the world. or just tell them up front that they'd have to kill asgore to get out and see if that discourages them, instead of waiting until the last minute after the whole self esteem scheme was blown open to do it. I know that she half-heartedly attempts to justify herself by saying that this was her intention and I'm sure she doesn't want either of them to die but really, either she's dumber than a bag of hammers or that was not her actual primary motivation.
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Sep 30, 2019 23:50
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Danaru posted:I'm genuinely curious what it is about disliking Alphys that sets people off. People always try to psychoanalyze you like you must hate Alphys because you hate women, or because you project onto her and are self loathing, or because you're homophobic. I think the people who tend to identify with Alphys tend to be defensive of her because they know how vulnerable she would feel because they themselves feel that way. If you've ever met an Alphys in person it's not surprising.
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Sep 30, 2019 23:52
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cock hero flux posted:What I don't cut her slack on is the fact that the game's entire third act is her loving with a small child and putting them in quite dangerous situations with absolutely no noble goal in mind. She just does it to feel important. She siccs a murder robot on a small child because she wants to look cool. Is this as bad as actively attempting child murder? No, but it has absolutely no sympathetic motivation behind it. It's honestly kind of psychotic. That's why she's a bad person: rather than doing bad things in a bad situation for a good reason, she does bad things in a neutral situation for practically no reason. Mettaton will never kill you. If you run out of time on the "Do this or DIE" segments he'll come up with some random reason for why he can't actually kill you. Until Mettaton goes against Alphys and does try to kill Frisk, they're never in any actual danger from him.
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Sep 30, 2019 23:52
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Scarodactyl posted:Alphys is the Vriska of Undertale, vis a vis quantity and quality of posts. Alphys is the Tavros of Undertale, really
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Sep 30, 2019 23:54
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Heliotrope posted:Mettaton will never kill you. If you run out of time on the "Do this or DIE" segments he'll come up with some random reason for why he can't actually kill you. Until Mettaton goes against Alphys and does try to kill Frisk, they're never in any actual danger from him. Also I’ve recently found that attacking Mettaton is actually a good way to quickly boost ratings in that fight, you might have to intentionally whiff a few times but usually the fight will end long before you actually kill him.
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Sep 30, 2019 23:56
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cock hero flux posted:yeah it's not, though she never attempts to justify it, mettaton's the one who blew the lid on her plan you're misremembering everything to a crazy extent
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Sep 30, 2019 23:57
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Heliotrope posted:Mettaton will never kill you. If you run out of time on the "Do this or DIE" segments he'll come up with some random reason for why he can't actually kill you. Until Mettaton goes against Alphys and does try to kill Frisk, they're never in any actual danger from him. I'm aware. Like I said, she isn't actively trying to kill Frisk, merely putting them in situations that are very dangerous and frightening for no good reason. Additionally mettaton can and does taser the poo poo out of frisk on multiple occasions. You can't die during the quiz fight but Mettaton can take you down to 1 hp with electric shocks. basically imagine an ED-209 with tasers instead of guns repeatedly shocking a small child and reducing it to a quivering heap on the ground. is your actual reaction "ah, but it's non-lethal though, so that's okay"? Oxxidation posted:she never attempts to justify it, mettaton's the one who blew the lid on her plan I'm not misremembering, I'm just explaining myself poorly. I meant to herself, not to you. As I recall that's part of mettaton's speculation on her motivations, rather than being something she outright says to you, but either way it doesn't really ring true.
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Oct 1, 2019 00:07
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All these new posts had me thinking something was released. Y'all are the real monsters, not Alphys.
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Oct 1, 2019 00:07
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cock hero flux posted:yeah it's not, though the alphys hate is weird because it's mostly posts like this that intentionally misinterpret things or try to conjure up a dark secret reality behind alphys's actions while ignoring the actual text and themes of the game
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Oct 1, 2019 00:14
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Alphys is basically Sheldon from the number 1 comedy, Young Sheldon, and the other number 1 comedy, big bang theory
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Oct 1, 2019 00:16
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i knew this was coming.i'm sans
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Oct 1, 2019 00:17
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Turtlicious posted:Is deltarune as good as undertale? Honestly yeah, especially if we're talking about characters. I like the characters in Undertale and I've written a lot about them in the four years since the game came out but the main cast in Deltarune left a larger impression on me despite being in a much shorter game. Primarily, I really like that we get to see more of them for the entire journey as opposed to Undertale which had one or two characters for each major area that didn't reappear as a whole until the very end of the Pacifist route. Also in terms of both games with what role the characters fill it does feel like the Underground would be improved by having someone like Susie, Ralsei, or Lancer in it rather than the Dark World containing someone like Papyrus, Sans, or Undyne.
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Oct 1, 2019 00:25
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somepartsareme posted:the alphys hate is weird because it's mostly posts like this that intentionally misinterpret things or try to conjure up a dark secret reality behind alphys's actions while ignoring the actual text and themes of the game the text is "alphys did it because she wanted to feel important", that's what the game says
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Oct 1, 2019 00:31
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Jerry.
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Oct 1, 2019 00:37
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People get really intense when a female character acts out and it's not in one of the approved "cool" or "acceptable" ways for women to lose it. Defensiveness about Alphys-hate is because the response to her has to be interpreted in light of that.
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Oct 1, 2019 00:38
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Heliotrope posted:Mettaton will never kill you. If you run out of time on the "Do this or DIE" segments he'll come up with some random reason for why he can't actually kill you. Until Mettaton goes against Alphys and does try to kill Frisk, they're never in any actual danger from him. Mettaton's body was designed to kill children (and be fabulous), and he is very clearly railing against his programming the whole way through. There's no partial credit for mostly containing the child-killing robot you built and sicced on a child.
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Oct 1, 2019 00:41
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