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3dp Starfighters, somehow even more dangerous than normal Starfighters
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Sep 28, 2019 12:30
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| # ? Jun 6, 2024 14:51 |
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Depending on exactly which Draken they could be a bit dangerous, the Rb 27 is not a good SARH missile but it is one. Outside of that we should be alrightish, the Scooters and Cheetahs will be more than a match for the Starfighters and older Drakens. Do we know if they're operating from Shamsi then?
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Sep 28, 2019 15:40
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FrangibleCover posted:Do we know if they're operating from Shamsi then? Oops, yes, hostiles are operating out of Shamsi as a primary and other makeshift locations in the hills to the east.
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Sep 28, 2019 15:59
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 Mission Time!  USN is attaching "Walleye" to us for the duration of the mission. We may decide when Walleye departs and flight path. USN aircraft will remain in the vicinity of the carrier and will not stray north. They've made it clear they are securing the carrier.  HG HQ is currently setting up in an old Pakistani army facility. Luckily the inflatable hangars (Scooby Doo Bouncy Houses) we purchased at Costco are working wonders for sealing out this god awful dirt. If you have any questions, ideas, or require clarification, just post! Back to you guys!
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Sep 29, 2019 01:50
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Okay, two quick ones: Can we arm Walleye? I assume not because ten AIM-120Ds will make this a doddle. Can we get a bearing/range for CVN-71 relative to a landmark so we can work out range properly and tell how hard we can push the Hornet?
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Sep 29, 2019 02:02
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FrangibleCover posted:Okay, two quick ones: #1- Negative. It'll be a ferry loadout. #2 - See below. 
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Sep 29, 2019 02:08
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A few thoughts, in no particular order. 1. We really don't have the force for an extended escort mission. The Lightnings and Fishbeds don't have the gas to escort the Hornet for long (my best guess is that they'll be bingo by the time the Hornet is halfway there (i.e. right in the middle of enemy airspace). The Skyhawks and Cheetahs aren't much better-off. We do have some options. For example, we could do a rolling CAP (launch our escorts in stages as each preceding waves run out of gas). We could launch on warning and scramble interceptors as soon as our AEW or the Hornet see a radar contact. Or we could try a more ... aggressive option. 2. OPFOR has a pretty good force for this mission. Drakens and Starfighters are decent Mach 2ish interceptors that could blow right through our BARCAP to take a potshot at the Hornet. 3. Radar is gonna be key for both sides. If OPFOR wants to blitz the Hornet, they have to know where it is. As far as we know, they only have ground-based radars and the dinky nose radars on their fighters (which don't really have much look-down capability). That raises some interesting options for us, like having the Hornet stay as low as possible to stay in ground clutter or launching a strike against their ground radar (which we can triangulate with our RWRs). 4. We may be overmatched in the air. All our fighters have comparable kinematic performance. However, OPFOR probably has more firepower (the J35J Draken has four AIM-9P all-aspect Sidewinders, while our best fighters, the subsonic Skyhawks and the supersonic Mirage-III derived Cheetahs only carry two comparable missiles). 5. A preemptive strike looks like an appealing option. OPFOR's radar and their aircraft would both be key targets. If we can blind them or knock out part of their force on the ground, we'd really screw with OPFOR's ability to go gunning for the Hornet. Even if we didn't get all their force on the ground, we'd keep them so busy defending their base, they wouldn't be able to to sortie their interceptors.
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Sep 29, 2019 06:43
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Are attacks against hostile ground infrastructure authorized? I thought the entire reason this was farmed out to us was to be low-profile. Might want to confirm that before you start considering the Spratly Spat gun-run-on-the-radars option.
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Sep 29, 2019 07:46
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Bacarruda posted:A few thoughts, in no particular order. I thought about a classic HG approach too, Scooters over the runway at thirty feet using the huge ridges in the area to protect us, but I don't really like it for this job for the following reasons: 1. Lack of intelligence: We don't know what we're trying to hit and we have neither the sensors to go find it or the payload to just hit everything. This is especially an issue for radars, if they have any sort of AEW bird then we're totally wasting our time hitting them. We learned this over the Kurils. 2. Enemy dispersal: They're at Shamsi but they're also dispersed into the hills, so just shutting Shamsi doesn't do the job for us. 3. Our best fighters are our best strikers, so if the plan doesn't come off then we're playing Magic Tag with Drakens. 4. Alert levels: So far we've been trying to keep this quiet. If we do a strike and then rearm for the Hornet coming through later then everyone and their mother will be on high alert for something going on. Now, I've just checked something else that should make this easier for us: With ferry loadout the F/A-18A+ has a range of 1950nmi and can fly from Kandahar to the Pakistani border north of Nokundi before descending to 300ft and hugging the Iranian border all the way to the Persian Gulf before getting to the carrier with an easy 40-50% fuel remaining. This isn't a very cheaty test, I could actually have gotten the same result from doing some maths but I can't be bothered when the program that tells me what numbers I need to plug in will also allow me to just fly the mission. I'm thinking about going at night and having the Hornet fly with the sensors off and basically hoping that they don't spot it while we have a big dogfight in the middle of Baluchistan to make it look like we're earning our paycheck.
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Sep 29, 2019 10:10
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Davin Valkri posted:Are attacks against hostile ground infrastructure authorized? I thought the entire reason this was farmed out to us was to be low-profile. Might want to confirm that before you start considering the Spratly Spat gun-run-on-the-radars option. Attacks on Pakistani Unauthorized Ground Facilities are acceptable.
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Sep 29, 2019 14:34
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Considering our birds short legs and fuckall loiter, I'm thinking we gotta do this as a rolling CAP style thing. Send up our fighters in squads of two or three, keep them on station until bingo fuel or bingo ammo, and time it such that we have their relief showing up right as they fly off. Conditionals for launching the next flight immediately if hostile contact is detected. We don't have the longevity for a large standing escort, and we don't have the strike assets (and we don't want the political heat) of doing a traditional "Bomb everything and then do the real objective" Even if the Starfighters and Drakens get through, as long as our shitbuckets can take the missile (and hopefully spoof it or eject) for the Hornet it's still mission accomplished. FrangibleCover posted:I'm thinking about going at night and having the Hornet fly with the sensors off and basically hoping that they don't spot it while we have a big dogfight in the middle of Baluchistan to make it look like we're earning our paycheck. Yeah, doing this Comona-style is the other way to play this. Arguably better because it masks our real objective
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Sep 29, 2019 16:39
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Can the Navy lend us a few F4s? Not the Phantoms, the Corsairs.
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Sep 29, 2019 17:21
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Bacarruda posted:(the J35J Draken has four AIM-9P all-aspect Sidewinders, Does CMANO specify which variants of the 9P they are? Per wikiped, only later variants (AIM-9P4 and P5) are all aspect, but other -9P variants are not,
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Sep 29, 2019 19:59
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Bacarruda posted:J35J Draken has four AIM-9P all-aspect Sidewinders Actually, the J 35J has rear aspect http://cmano-db.com/weapon/1760/ Double-post-avoiding edit:  CMANO's relief map is better for understanding altitude issues than google. As you can see the big problem is the Kharan Desert in western Pakistan. Both our airbases and the opfor's are located in this feature and anything we put up will be instantly visible to ground radar, including the hornet we're escorting. There isn't an easy way to avoid this while also avoiding the Iranian border. We can stay off the radar from Khandahar to the Afghan border by flying NoE over Helmand and using the Chagai Hills / Ras Koh Hills to hide us from ground radar. Then we just volley off everything towards the OpFor we can while the F-18 burns like mad for the end zone.  The only other viable plan I can think of might involve using our Cheetahs and their 8*4=32x runway bombs to try to shut down Shamsi by basing them out of Panjgur Airport. This loadout also carries the same 2x all-aspect 8nm heaters we'd get on the air superiority Cheetah loadout (slightly less boom but in most respects they're the same) and as such can withdraw to loiter a bit after carrying out the strike. There is no consideration to potential air defenses however, and I don't even know if we can sneak 4 Cheetahs into Panjgur. I will also test to see if we can actually shut the runway this way and will report back. TheDemon fucked around with this message at 22:58 on Sep 29, 2019 |
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Sep 29, 2019 20:49
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TheDemon posted:Actually, the J 35J has rear aspect http://cmano-db.com/weapon/1760/ You are indeed correct. I'd mixed up which -P subvariant was which. TheDemon posted:
I like the direction this idea is going in. I reckon that a raid on their bases timed to coincide with the Hornet getting airborne could 1) knock out their aircraft on the ground, 2) knock out their runways and prevent surviving aircraft from taking off, and 3) create such a ruckus over their airspace that they'll be busier trying to defend themselves than they will be trying to find and kill the Hornet. Bacarruda fucked around with this message at 23:52 on Sep 29, 2019 |
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Sep 29, 2019 23:49
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Operation Back In The Saddle Concept:
Walleye flight plan is in Green Limitations:
Mitigation:
Order of Battle:
Assignments:
 This is about as clean and simple as it gets I think. On the upside, we'll probably get some good small-scale dogfights going on, maybe even clutch saves with Sheriff or Deputy showing up just in time. On the downside, it's not a particularly daring or ambitious plan like blowing up an airbase with a surprise NOE strike just to prove a point, then running the Hornet through at NOE full afterburners as an afterthought. Radio Free Kobold fucked around with this message at 23:19 on Oct 2, 2019 |
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Sep 29, 2019 23:58
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Reporting back: A 4x Cheetah strike from Panjgur with a Support Mission loiter in the valley followed by mission reassignment to a very narrow Patrol box encompassing only the runway will knock it out 60-70% of the time, with about 2-3 minutes of warning. I'll note that the Cheetah can't seem to fly lower than 1000ft AGL so wandering over the mountains even a little will get detected early. Shamsi in the database contains 9 possible aircraft spaces, striking these will be more difficult and require a larger commitment of force. (Simulated OpFor: 1x Soviet 1L13-3 "Box Spring" radar situated on the mountain 1000ft higher than Shamsi approx 3nm from the base, 2x ZSU-57 batteries on the runway itself.) I also tested the ability of the opfor to detect the Hornet flying terrain-following:   Simulated radar was a Soviet 1L13-3 "Box Spring" on a fairly big hill. No detection at all. I also tried it again with a much bigger gently caress-off radar set:  An AN/FPS-118, which is the building-sized radar facility used to detect bombers over the horizon. It got a few sniffs, but nothing solid. A mobile AN/TPS-77 (modern AESA truck radar) got the same results as the 1L13-3, that is to say, nothing at all. I have to move the radar within the horizon to get a look, no amount of hills or valleys does it. The Hornet at full AB gives about a 6-minute intercept window after it passes the Afghan border, so even if detected it's going to be really difficult.
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Sep 30, 2019 00:30
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The Impossible Intercept Take Walleye to the Afghan-Pakistani border north of the Iranian border line, drop to minimum altitude, fly to the Iranian border and engage full reheat, follow the Iranian border until inside US airspace. That's it. That's the plan. Benefits: If it works we get paid. Risks: If it doesn't work we look really dumb. If it works PACFLT will wonder why they hired us. Side-benefits: New record for shortest op plan. FrangibleCover fucked around with this message at 08:00 on Sep 30, 2019 |
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Sep 30, 2019 00:41
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Operation Door Knocker This is a runway bombing mission, which is basically all I do haha but anyway... CHRONOLOGICALLY: 1. Launch Walleye.   We all know CMANO pathing and altitude management sucks so I'm using a support path to do this. WALLEYE Stage 1: Support Mission launching from Kandahar. Waypoints are Hornet Support 1-6 in order. See pictures above. Check "One-time only" and set "Single Loop". Once the aircraft has launched, set the home base to the carrier (or if that isn't possible to an airfield closest to the destination). Also once launched, make the point Intercept 1 relative (fixed bearing) to it. (See map above.) Yooper if you can manage this with a Ferry mission be my guest but I wasn't able to figure out how. Fuel State RTB: No. Transit Altitude 1ft terrain following, Station Altitude 1ft terrain following. 2. Cover Our Asses by launching a few early fighters and having interceptors on standby.  When Walleye is about halfway to Point 2, activate the first patrol: ESCORT 1: 2x J-7II Fishbed with PL7 loadout to launch from No Alcohol and perform AAW Patrol between ESCORT 1-1 and ESCORT 1-2 (see above). Investigate contacts both checked. Fuel State RTB: Yes, units leave group [...] Station Altitude 12000 ft. Conditional if the enemy is in the air early, or reinforcements as needed: INTERCEPT 1: 6x Lightning F6 based at NoAlcohol with an inactive AAW Patrol mission, at point INTERCEPT 1 which is relative (fixed bearing) to Walleye, 30nm east. Set active if more than 5+ enemy aircraft are in the air or at your discretion. Investigate contacts both checked. Fuel State RTB: Yes, units leave group [...] 3. Disable Shamsi Airfield   Shamsi Transit: Support Mission launching from Panjgur around when Walleye reaches point 2. 4x Cheetah with the 8x Condib 70 loadout. Fly to the Shamsi Transit point (see above). Transit Altitude 1ft terrain following, Station Altitude 1ft terrain following. When the aircraft are close to the form-up point (Note this happens in the middle of step 4.), swap them to the following: Shamsi Strike: Patrol ASuW (Ground) mission with a box around ONLY the Shamsi runway (see above) Investigate Contacts boxes both unchecked. Transit Altitude 1ft terrain following, Station Altitude 1ft terrain following. 4. Provide close cover for Walleye. After Walleye passes point 3, activate the second AAW mission: ESCORT 2: 4x A-4SU Super Skyhawk with AIM-9P Sidewinder loadout to launch from NoAlcohol and perform AAW Patrol between ESCORT 2-1 and ESCORT 2-2 (see above map). Investigate contacts both checked. Fuel State RTB: Yes, units leave group [...] Station Altitude 20000 ft. At the same time, activate the Shackleton AEW mission: AEW: Support Mission launching from NoAlcohol, with a point directly over Nokuni. Radar ACTIVE. When Walleye passes point 4, edit its mission to turn on afterburner: WALLEYE Stage 2: Transit Throttle Afterburner, Station Throttle Afterburner. When Walleye reaches Point 5, activate the third AAW mission: ESCORT 3: 4x J-7II Fishbed with PL7 loadout to launch from Panjgur and perform AAW Patrol at point INTERCEPT 1 which is relative (fixed bearing) to Walleye, 30nm east. Also reassign the 2x J-7II Fishbeds from ESCORT 1 to this mission if they're still in the air. Investigate contacts both checked. Fuel State RTB: Yes, units leave group [...] Station Altitude 12000 ft.  When the Shamsi Strike mission has launched all bombs (this happens almost exactly when Walleye is at point 5): BARCAP 1: Reassign the surviving Cheetahs an AAW Patrol mission, in a line 15nm west of Shamsi (see above). At your discretion this line can be moved farther west if being close to Shamsi is too dangerous (SAMs, MANPADs etc). Investigate contacts both checked. Fuel State RTB: Yes, units leave group [...] Station Altitude 15000 ft. 6. End Zone I haven't made any special provisions for this but just so we're aware the hornet should be set RTB to the carrier as it hits the goal line, which will drop its speed so that it has fuel to land on the Theodore Roosevelt. Presumably we don't have to manage the landing and escorts past the goal and such. You'll notice these timings are really tight. That's because once we pass the Afghan border the op takes like 15 minutes, tops. The distances involved are not long and the 2-5 minutes it takes to put birds into the air is really really significant. I fully expect even if we launch the lightnings that they won't make it airborne in time to matter. As long as we don't have to meet Walleye over Kandahar the short legs of our fighters aren't a concern at all. I've had simulated runs where attached Fishbeds can reach the CVN without being bingo, as long as they don't have to engage in combat - and if they do have to engage then anything that gets into a furball is expended anyway so it doesn't matter. TheDemon fucked around with this message at 04:36 on Sep 30, 2019 |
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Sep 30, 2019 03:52
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What's the gain from bombing the enemy airport if the enemy radar won't pick up the flight anyways?
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Sep 30, 2019 09:23
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RandomPauI posted:What's the gain from bombing the enemy airport if the enemy radar won't pick up the flight anyways?
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Sep 30, 2019 09:57
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Why not save the "we're back to make everything blow up" for a mission where we'll get paid to blow stuff up?
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Sep 30, 2019 10:01
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RandomPauI posted:What's the gain from bombing the enemy airport if the enemy radar won't pick up the flight anyways? It's a 3-prong approach in case any one prong fails. Fly the Hornet low to avoid radar... but let's say they have an AEW or a balloon or spotters on the ground, then we also bomb the airport, and we also run out a timed escort. No one method is guaranteed to work.
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Sep 30, 2019 13:31
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RandomPauI posted:Why not save the "we're back to make everything blow up" for a mission where we'll get paid to blow stuff up? Yooper can finance division tell us if there is anything on offer for also loving with their airport?
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Sep 30, 2019 21:15
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Additive is already used in component manufacturing for airplanes and turbine engines.
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Sep 30, 2019 23:42
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Ultimately I'm bombing the airport because it's my bread and butter, and it's how HG made our name. Of course, it's also a perfectly fine way to accomplish the mission objective.
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Oct 1, 2019 00:16
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Warmachine posted:Yooper can finance division tell us if there is anything on offer for also loving with their airport? Headlines lead to better and bigger contracts down the road. It might also get us more airframes in the next procurement.
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Oct 1, 2019 00:35
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Well, guess that settles it, we're bombing the airport again
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Oct 1, 2019 02:55
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Yooper posted:Headlines lead to better and bigger contracts down the road. It might also get us more airframes in the next procurement. Is there such thing as negative press or is any news good news? Like, I presume something like the shelling of Sofia would be bad for us?
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Oct 1, 2019 04:54
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So where is everyone chatting these days?
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Oct 1, 2019 10:34
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TheDemon posted:Is there such thing as negative press or is any news good news? Like, I presume something like the shelling of Sofia would be bad for us? Jack says, "Any news is good news, unless it leads to an indictment. Then it's bad news."
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Oct 1, 2019 11:32
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I think the general chat is now going to be https://disc ord.gg/Uh3XM8.Although it's been relatively quiet there too.
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Oct 1, 2019 11:42
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The HG S2 team has found a line of Twitter advertising... 
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Oct 1, 2019 13:16
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Ten mil? Huh. How much are we getting paid for this job?
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Oct 1, 2019 13:23
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Could we do a decoy run to draw out the PIA aircraft?
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Oct 1, 2019 13:26
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FrangibleCover posted:Ten mil? Huh. Americans are vindictive and heavily armed, which should be taken into consideration on the valuation of pissing them off.
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Oct 1, 2019 13:28
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And we don't belong to the trade group sponsoring the contest so they wouldn't have to pay up.
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Oct 1, 2019 13:32
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so how much does a terrible, awful, garbage-rear end F/A-18C (ex-Canadian?) cost? e: doesn't Broadstreet have some of those? make a pakistani shell company, source some garbage hornets, then shoot 'em down for the fraud money.
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Oct 1, 2019 15:15
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Radio Free Kobold posted:so how much does a terrible, awful, garbage-rear end F/A-18C (ex-Canadian?) cost?
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Oct 1, 2019 16:00
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| # ? Jun 6, 2024 14:51 |
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If we're fantasizing about it, I'd rather we rent two for a decoy mission/bombing runs. HG paint scheme too.
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Oct 1, 2019 16:18
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