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MikeCrotch posted:Also racism about easily duped and insensitive Japanese tourists Of course, east Asian countries are also racist as hell, as well as, oh! every other country on earth. And if it isn't race, it's religion or some other form of bigotry. Good human race we got here. Milo and POTUS posted:Isn't there a forehead slapping smiley? 
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Oct 1, 2019 22:54
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feedmegin posted:Um this is a bit like saying 'England, the UK'... I have a geographic blind spot where i think Denmark and type Holland, i always seem to fall directly into that pit.  .Squalid posted:I feel like this was probably covered in a previous post, but how did Saddam end up being supported by both the US and USSR again? Iran was really bad at diplomacy Iran wasnt just bad at diplomacy, Iran was AWFUL at diplomacy, a lot of this is a consequence of how their nation sort of worked, there was a lot of free-wheeling zealots in the revolutionary guards taking actions off their own bat. The entire thing starts with them taking over the American embassy, initiating the US embassy hostage crisis and unseating the US friendly Shah, which pretty much put friendly relations with the US immediately on the rocks. They then proceeded to really upset the entirity of the Arab world, particularly the Sunni arab world by calling for more widescale revolution, this unnerved Saudi Arabia, who had also had strong links with the Shah, it particularly upset Bahrain who were Shia majority with a Sunni ruling class. They had a long running feud with the UAE over islands in the Persian gulf that lasted from before the days of the revolution, they were also conducting mischief abroad, they conducted a series of bombings in France, they were working on creating and building up Hezbollah in Lebanon, they had a pretty piss poor reputation with how they treated their arab minority and also existing and long running emnity with Russia going back centuries. This was not an auspicious start for them to get along with their neighbours. Despite all of this, people still tried to get along with Iran, pretty much everyone sold to both sides at one time or another, the USSR, who supplied them generously inthe early years of the war in return for an F-14 and cash, the USA armed Iran too, though in the US case it was largely as a result of the arms for hostages crisis. Most european nations sold to both sides, they largely wanted to avoid another oil shock and take advantage of the potential for cash from sales to both. It would take significant pressure from the US to stem arms sales from Europe to Iran, which they would apply later on in the war. Iran could have really sat pretty had it not insisted on alienating everyone. Iran would board US ships and attack neutral tankers in the gulf, they would then arm the Mujahidin in Afghanistan to fight the Soviets and intensify their calls for the southern SSR muslims to rise up, they would blow up the US and French barracks in Beirut and conduct bombings in France proper and had a nasty habit of shooting their exiles on the streets of European cities and their proxies would kidnap people from all nations in Lebanon. The only people they didnt aggrevate really were Israel, China and North Korea who would supply them largely to spite other people, Iraq and the USSR respectively. They approached diplomacy with a hammer in every situation. There are reasons they behaved in this way, it wasn't neccesarily completely irrational. Iran had a foreign policy that was incapable of being consistent, you had the moderates in Tehran trying to gracefully manuever their way into Moscows good graces, or to gently thaw with America, then the Revolutionary guards would come out with their big honking clown car and gently caress it up by blowing something up because they were essentially a law unto themselves and were very dedicated revolutionaries. Nobody really liked Saddam, its just that he was generally the person least likely to set the Persian Gulf on fire, he was a murderous dictator but he was far more predictable. He also had the bankroll of not only Iraq to spend but also the gulf states who were granting him significant loans to keep the Persian menace at bay.
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Oct 1, 2019 23:02
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The stereotype of a Japanese worker who can take any idea from the West and make it way cheaper is much older than the 80s, I remember reading a reporter's book about Japan from the 30s where he talked about exactly that.
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Oct 1, 2019 23:06
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MORE TAXES WHEN posted:This footage makes it seem like the criteria for strafing a target was pretty much "Is it man-made or a person? Do I have ammo? Sure let's strafe it." which seems terrifyingly indiscriminate by our current standards. In the final stages of the war, the tactical air forces were told to attack transportation infrastructure. Any transportation infrastructure. I remember The World at War had footage of a single man on a horse being strafed. Thanks as always for the effort post polyakov
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Oct 1, 2019 23:22
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I'm just starting to read the Iran-Iraq thing from the start and: holy poo poo, I've been looking for something like this for a long long time!  quote:Iranians is never defeated in battle. If we win we win, if we die we die fighting so it don't count.  E: I do wonder why the Iranians didn't just attach Independent Tank Destroyer Battalions to the Pasadaran formations, though? Schadenboner fucked around with this message at 01:03 on Oct 2, 2019 |
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Oct 1, 2019 23:24
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Do naval guns out in "the middle of the ocean" echo at all or is there just the blast then relative silence?
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Oct 2, 2019 00:16
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steinrokkan posted:The stereotype of a Japanese worker who can take any idea from the West and make it way cheaper is much older than the 80s, I remember reading a reporter's book about Japan from the 30s where he talked about exactly that. They tow it to the runway via ox drawn carriage. What was that terrible (adulterated?) tobacco that the red army was smoking back in the big one? It literally had a wikipedia entry Milo and POTUS fucked around with this message at 01:19 on Oct 2, 2019 |
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Oct 2, 2019 01:12
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Polyakov posted:Iran wasnt just bad at diplomacy, Iran was AWFUL at diplomacy, a lot of this is a consequence of how their nation sort of worked, there was a lot of free-wheeling zealots in the revolutionary guards taking actions off their own bat. I'm sure their actions make sense in terms of domestic politics or some principle, but like at every turn in the story you have to feel like pulling Iran aside and saying something like "hey buddy, you know how you're about to go out of your way to antagonize all the great powers of the world for no real strategic gain? Yeah how about not doing that this time?  doesn't really seem like much has changed on that front tbh
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Oct 2, 2019 02:00
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Squalid posted:I'm sure their actions make sense in terms of domestic politics or some principle, but like at every turn in the story you have to feel like pulling Iran aside and saying something like "hey buddy, you know how you're about to go out of your way to antagonize all the great powers of the world for no real strategic gain? Yeah how about not doing that this time? We all have that person that literally never listens to advice from anyone. Even when you’re sitting with them on the curb and handing them towels to staunch the bleeding.
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Oct 2, 2019 02:06
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taqueso posted:Do naval guns out in "the middle of the ocean" echo at all or is there just the blast then relative silence? The truth is that naval guns are loaded with special theatric effect propellant when firing for public display or when being filmed. When firing on the open ocean, under normal conditions, the guns' report is a slightly louder-than-average 'quack' sound, which is well known to be unable to produce an echo.
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Oct 2, 2019 02:48
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FAUXTON posted:The truth is that naval guns are loaded with special theatric effect propellant when firing for public display or when being filmed. When firing on the open ocean, under normal conditions, the guns' report is a slightly louder-than-average 'quack' sound, which is well known to be unable to produce an echo. Actually ducks sound like naval artillery, an ability they evolved to drive away predators. Increasing urbanisation brought humans into closer contact with ducks and a resulting epidemic of ear injuries until someone edited the config files to replace the naval artillery sound with a humourous quack. Since the change was to the sound itself, it propagatedto anything that called that sound.
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Oct 2, 2019 03:45
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Milo and POTUS posted:They tow it to the runway via ox drawn carriage. You're probably thinking about makhorka, or more formally Nicotiana rustica.
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Oct 2, 2019 04:36
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zoux posted:The 80s were all about Japan panic, but I guess that was more racism at the worker bee-like nature of Japanese salarymen than issei and nisei lmao if you think Americans differentiate between those. I'm yonsei (fourth gen), last immigrant ancestors circa 1905, and I still get people marveling at my English proficiency from time to time (admittedly less than, say, 15-25 years ago).
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Oct 2, 2019 04:42
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Gnoman posted:You're probably thinking about makhorka, or more formally Nicotiana rustica. I hope they used it in the correct traditional fashion: 
Squalid fucked around with this message at 05:20 on Oct 2, 2019 |
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Oct 2, 2019 04:47
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Gnoman posted:You're probably thinking about makhorka, or more formally Nicotiana rustica. I honestly could not say at this point. It might have been the mix rather than the tobacco itself
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Oct 2, 2019 05:05
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Milo and POTUS posted:I honestly could not say at this point. It might have been the mix rather than the tobacco itself No, it was N. Rustica: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicotiana_rustica
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Oct 2, 2019 06:50
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Squalid posted:I'm sure their actions make sense in terms of domestic politics or some principle, but like at every turn in the story you have to feel like pulling Iran aside and saying something like "hey buddy, you know how you're about to go out of your way to antagonize all the great powers of the world for no real strategic gain? Yeah how about not doing that this time?
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Oct 2, 2019 12:19
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USA should have handed Saddam over to the Iranians.
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Oct 2, 2019 14:10
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Nenonen posted:USA should have handed Saddam over to the Iranians. That would require that the US recognizes Iranians as people, with a country of their own, and a government somewhat of their choosing, and it seems like that's never going to happen  ( I just want to visit Persepolis in my lifetime so I really hope the US and Iran normalize relations at some point)
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Oct 2, 2019 14:21
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steinrokkan posted:The stereotype of a Japanese worker who can take any idea from the West and make it way cheaper is much older than the 80s, I remember reading a reporter's book about Japan from the 30s where he talked about exactly that.
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Oct 2, 2019 15:07
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FAUXTON posted:That would require that the US recognizes Iranians as people, with a country of their own, and a government somewhat of their choosing, and it seems like that's never going to happen Outside of a few situations (Israeli dual citizenship, security clearance stuff), you can totally visit Iran as an American. There are some personal security things to be aware of, but it's fully legal and not very hard to do.
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Oct 2, 2019 15:21
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There's also a substantial fraction inside the US government that wants us to ally with them. We totally recognise them as people, and recognise their government as a government. I would like to go to Iran eventually but I wouldn't take my boyfriend. Since I'm uncomfortable whenever I have no audience I can  to...maybe my sister?
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Oct 2, 2019 15:31
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HEY GUNS posted:in the 19th century that was about germans, word for word. i am pretty sure demanding people put the country of manufacture on the product was due to that kind of panic about germans Yeah Japan wasn't a big exporter to the US and Europe of most things until after World War II and after US occupation authorities had directed and allowed Japan to reinvent itself as such a place. This isn't say Japan didn't export any cheap manufactured goods overseas beforehand, but it was at a massively greater scale afterwards. You still had West Germany as a place to import cheap but good quality goods well into the 60s, particularly for electronics and very intricate mechanical stuff (though by the 60s West Germany was very much sliding over into being innately prestigious for much of the exports, something Japanese goods achieve in the late 70s/the 80s).
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Oct 2, 2019 15:36
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HEY GUNS posted:in the 19th century that was about germans, word for word. i am pretty sure demanding people put the country of manufacture on the product was due to that kind of panic about germans Panik! At the Zollhaus
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Oct 2, 2019 15:40
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4VRkE01mi4 Youtube is an absolutely fantastic resource for amateur history docs (provided you do a little anti-Nazi vetting beforehand) and a bunch of channels are getting demonitized. The Armchair Historian was the first one I saw, they do a lot of WWII stuff so it's probably getting flagged for Nazi stuff, even though that team is absolutely not crypto-Nazis. Now the Great War channel, which did that day-by-day WWI documentary series , is getting their stuff demonitized as well. But it's not recent stuff, which has been more WWII oriented, but the old WWI stuff. What's probably behind this is the auto-moderator algorithms, which can't tell the difference between a video about the Holocaust and a video celebrating the Holocaust. I get that the internet history community is rife with fascists and revisionists and liars and we have to constantly be on guard against this, but you cannot trust automated programs to differentiate between educational content and propaganda content. You can't even really trust humans, unless they've been well trained and well versed in the standard online Nazi tactics and obfuscations and concern trolling, and that ain't cheap. This is a problem that goes beyond history youtube, as LGBTQ-related videos also get demonitized zoux fucked around with this message at 16:07 on Oct 2, 2019 |
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Oct 2, 2019 16:03
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Yeah, demonetization is a huge problem on YouTube right now. This video (and this accompanying summary post) have a pretty good breakdown of the issue when it comes to LGBTQ: basically there's a bunch of words that will result in your video being demonetized, many of which are words that modern society says should be completely acceptable like "gay" or "muslim". Because our AI overlords (and the advertising companies that pay them) are racist assholes.
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Oct 2, 2019 16:16
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IMO they're not racist they're greedy. I mean some are probably racists, but it's money not bigotry behind this. Also ~certain parties~ like to work the refs, so even if you somehow created a perfect human moderation system, they'd whine about how the mods are biased because they demonitized my Brie-Larson-SJW-trash video but not the ones that try to educate people about the struggle trans individuals face in day-to-day life. The Great War people are moving to a crowdsourcing model, and say they're going to stop putting videos on youtube, but it's a huge loss of exposure. They can handle it better as one of the bigger channels, with $19k a month in patreon revenue, but there are plenty of one-person operations out there that can't.
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Oct 2, 2019 16:22
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I'm judging by results, not intent; their behavior is racist so they're racist. Like how displaying the Confederate flag is racist even if you legitimately intend to be celebrating Southern pride (whatever that means), because the flag is a major racist symbol and in itself oppresses minorities. Racism that stems from greed is just as bad as racism that stems from bigotry or ignorance.
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Oct 2, 2019 16:26
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Haven't some channels moved their stuff to porn sites?
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Oct 2, 2019 16:32
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I saw a Gun Jesus video link from porn hub, where he was reffing a 3-gun match. Not sure if that's a thing or just having a bit of fun.
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Oct 2, 2019 16:35
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Polyakov posted:Iran would board US ships and attack neutral tankers in the gulf, they would then arm the Mujahidin in Afghanistan to fight the Soviets and intensify their calls for the southern SSR muslims to rise up, they would blow up the US and French barracks in Beirut and conduct bombings in France proper and had a nasty habit of shooting their exiles on the streets of European cities and their proxies would kidnap people from all nations in Lebanon. The only people they didnt aggrevate really were Israel, China and North Korea who would supply them largely to spite other people, Iraq and the USSR respectively. They approached diplomacy with a hammer in every situation. There are reasons they behaved in this way, it wasn't neccesarily completely irrational. Iran had a foreign policy that was incapable of being consistent, you had the moderates in Tehran trying to gracefully manuever their way into Moscows good graces, or to gently thaw with America, then the Revolutionary guards would come out with their big honking clown car and gently caress it up by blowing something up because they were essentially a law unto themselves and were very dedicated revolutionaries. I have two questions for you. First, was trench warfare in the Iran-Iraq war as First World War Miserable as I picture anytime I hear the term? Obviously everybody has radios and tanks, but I'm still picturing the Iranians trudging across no-man's land straight into the teeth of prepared defenses. Second, have you heard of the Arrow Air Crash? In December 1985 the worst aircrash in Canadian and USAF history happened in my hometown. The victems (aside from the aircrew and two secret squirrel types) were men of the 101st airborne, who'd been in Sinai on a peacekeeping mission. The resulting total lack of curiosity by America as to what happened and a completely incompetent/ordered to produce a result crash investigation made people suspect a cover up...which was mos def warranted. The Arrow charter company was a CIA front out of Florida, who were frequently used in Iran-Contra arms deliveries. In fact, it's likely that the aircraft took on a load of Iran-bound ordnance - likely missiles - while on a stopover in Cairo. Anyway, sabotage of a CIA charter carrying American soldiers home for Christmas does sound like something the Revolutionary Guard would do on their own.
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Oct 2, 2019 16:35
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I feel like this is probably the same issue as when Tumblr did a really bad job of trying to ban pornography. Doing it right would require actually hiring and paying people, which goes against the entire Silicon Valley ethos.
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Oct 2, 2019 16:37
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StandardVC10 posted:I feel like this is probably the same issue as when Tumblr did a really bad job of trying to ban pornography. Doing it right would require actually hiring and paying people, which goes against the entire Silicon Valley ethos. Well, Tumblr was trying to sell itself, and thought bigger companies would balk if it was mostly porn. They literally couldn't pay people to moderate. Google owns Youtube and I think they may have some cash around, it's just that human moderation isn't profitable at scale and it's all about that shareholder value.
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Oct 2, 2019 16:41
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It's really kinda weird that people just assume that "monetization" is something owed to them in substantial amounts just for making videos, so long as those videos are online. You only get that monetization through YouTube if you're doing things that companies with big advertising budgets like, just like commercial TV. (of course you can get penny shavings instead for a much broader range of content, but that doesn't pay for a full time video production career). Only unlike TV, people will watch what amounts to the modern public access channels plenty. And depending on who likes you enough you can potentially break into a premium-TV equivalent space where the money's coming from at least some part of the audience directly paying on a regular basis. The way some people talk about this, it's like they think Google was just choosing to shovel money out from nowhere for the few years between it becoming trivial to be authorized for some ad revenue (but again, mostly penny shavings) and the first time big-dollar advertisers got mad their ads were running next to content they didn't like. \ StandardVC10 posted:I feel like this is probably the same issue as when Tumblr did a really bad job of trying to ban pornography. Doing it right would require actually hiring and paying people, which goes against the entire Silicon Valley ethos. No amount of "hiring the right people" is going to get the ad execs to shell out the way you want them to. This isn't some thing where it's like oh, oops, this is just the wrong filtering process. The big ad buyers mostly want to shove their dollars into ~family friendly~ stuff same as on TV and any other ad-supported media. This is kind of a fundamental problem with an ad-supported model of funding! It's not interested in what's most useful, it's interested in what can sell other things good, and "sells other things well" is being judged mostly by middle aged rich white guys.
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Oct 2, 2019 16:45
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zoux posted:Well, Tumblr was trying to sell itself, and thought bigger companies would balk if it was mostly porn. Tumblr wasn't trying to sell itself, Tumblr was owned by Verizon via the Yahoo buyout. Apple pulled the Tumblr app from their store after some child porn was uploaded, and Tumblr reacted with the ban on all porn in a panic to get back on iOS. Yahoo bought Tumblr for 1.1 billion. Verizon just sold off Tumblr for $3 million. Even taking into account that they were grossly overvalued at the point at which Yahoo bought them, that's an impressive self-own.
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Oct 2, 2019 16:52
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Phanatic posted:Tumblr wasn't trying to sell itself, Tumblr was owned by Verizon via the Yahoo buyout. Apple pulled the Tumblr app from their store after some child porn was uploaded, and Tumblr reacted with the ban on all porn in a panic to get back on iOS. Yahoo bought Tumblr for 1.1 billion. Verizon just sold off Tumblr for $3 million. Even taking into account that they were grossly overvalued at the point at which Yahoo bought them, that's an impressive self-own. Oh, I thought the porn-ban and sale were correlated, my mistake.
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Oct 2, 2019 16:53
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Yahoo bought Tumblr at a time where it was being mooted as being bigger than Twitter, the porn ban had nothing to do with its decline.
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Oct 2, 2019 16:59
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Arquinsiel posted:I mean... the Obama nuclear deal? At this point you may as well level that charge against the USA. the big difference is that the stakes are a lot lower for the US. That's not really a justification for US strategy but it does make it at least more understandable. Regarding current events it's hard not to think Rouhani has more to gain than lose from a personal meeting and chance to negotiate directly with Trump even if the optics are bad, but considering he keeps turning Trump down I guess he disagrees
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Oct 2, 2019 16:59
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ChubbyChecker posted:Haven't some channels moved their stuff to porn sites? InRange, which Ian is half of, put a few videos onto pornhub. Turns out pornhub sucks for putting up content in the usual manner for a content channel, and nobody watched it so they stopped.
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Oct 2, 2019 17:03
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Squalid posted:the big difference is that the stakes are a lot lower for the US. That's not really a justification for US strategy but it does make it at least more understandable. Regarding current events it's hard not to think Rouhani has more to gain than lose from a personal meeting and chance to negotiate directly with Trump even if the optics are bad, but considering he keeps turning Trump down I guess he disagrees
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Oct 2, 2019 17:07
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