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Casey Finnigan posted:I've only ever had fun playing D&D when doing it in a group that's new to the game and doesn't really follow the rules. Any time I've tried to play with "D&D players" it's been a totally miserable experience. My old group fluctuated between five to eight people, depending on the game and level of attrition. All you need to drag a game down into utter boredom are two people who play to win. Also, playing any TTRPG with 8 people is bad enough, but D&D's combat made it loving atrocious. I once spent real time three hours reading a book because my character got hit with a spell that immobilized him without taking away any defense bonuses on the first round of a three round combat session. That's what got me to swear off anything d20 for good. Didn't help that we had a couple of guys who insisted on playing spell casters who would pour through the PHB on their turns to figure out which of their spells they would cast that round. We clocked one at over a half hour before instigating a ninety seconds and your turn ends rule. Obligatory the thing dragging 4e down was that it was the only edition that realized combat in a combat focused game should at least try to be fun and we never got a video game out of it.
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Oct 3, 2019 14:49
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OutOfPrint posted:Didn't help that we had a couple of guys who insisted on playing spell casters who would pour through the PHB on their turns to figure out which of their spells they would cast that round. We clocked one at over a half hour before instigating a ninety seconds and your turn ends rule. Honestly, that's not a problem with the system, those people will do that anyway. Even if it's not going over the rulebook, it'll be hemming and hawing over what action is most beneficial right now or what they think their character would do - but maybe he'd do this, I just don't know... - even though everyone else can see that it's really not going to make any long-term difference. At least with an extensive rulebook it makes it easier for other people to help them narrow down options - well, you can't do this or this or that, so it's got to be one of these two options... 'Cause even at high levels in D&D, you really don't have that many options. They're usually agonising over whether they want to spend a 5th level spell slot or if a 3rd level might do or whatever. They're the same people who'll say they're happy to eat anywhere but then veto every single restaurant suggestion that anyone makes. I guess you could call it "playing to win" but it's just a generalised form of that hyper-FOMO attitude of "this is good, but what if I could have been doing something even better right now?" But yeah, any eight-player game is going to involve a lot of sitting around waiting for other people to decide what to do. It's just an issue inherent to a group of that size.
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Oct 3, 2019 15:29
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Replaying Xcom2 again, and I guess I had kind of forgotten or suppressed the most annoying parts about it. Having random pauses in the middle of gameplay, sometimes up to 5-10 seconds due to -something- happening in the background is pretty annoying and quickly draws you out of it as you wonder if it's softlocked or something. And then there's of course the discovery mechanic. Where an enemy can just stroll into your field of vision, then immediately get a free movement action to position themselves. Or the worse one, where if your squad spots a single toe of an enemy group, they'll all instantly bound into position. And then they were of course discovered during the last action of your turn, so they also immediately get a full round of actions to gently caress you over with. I really wish that system worked better. I'd much rather have the enemies come towards you, using their normal actions the moment they hear a firefight or something, instead of the incredibly 'gamey' setup they have there. Where if you accidentally take 1 step too far you'll suddenly activate another group that was content just chilling in place until discovered. It just feels so artificial, and the way it's structured just feels unfair in an unfun way. (And it's made worse by the fact that even if you have a reaper in concealment, so that you can scout them out, you have no indication of where you can place or move your soldiers without triggering them.)
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Oct 3, 2019 16:00
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OutOfPrint posted:My old group fluctuated between five to eight people, depending on the game and level of attrition. All you need to drag a game down into utter boredom are two people who play to win.
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Oct 3, 2019 16:12
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Casey Finnigan posted:I've only ever had fun playing D&D when doing it in a group that's new to the game and doesn't really follow the rules. Any time I've tried to play with "D&D players" it's been a totally miserable experience. It's been so long since I've had a bad time roleplaying this reads really weird to me but then I remember a session I sat in on like 20 years ago where the players spent all of it (3+ hours) trying and failing to cross a river and I start nodding. those guys were tedious dorks; don't play with tedious dorks. FactsAreUseless posted:Xcom: Enemy Unknown 4e was hugely influential even if 5e is more (sigh) 'd&D' like
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Oct 3, 2019 21:29
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Fought the Eden-6 Vault Guardian in Borderlands 3 and man alive that was a boring fight. Unlike the first Vault Guardian you fight this one just has a set routine which makes it easy to avoid its attacks so you just kind of have to sit there and shoot it over and over again trying to whittle down its immense health.
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Oct 3, 2019 21:53
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muscles like this! posted:sit there and shoot it over and over again trying to whittle down its immense health. Borderlands.txt
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Oct 3, 2019 22:51
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SubNat posted:Replaying Xcom2 again, and I guess I had kind of forgotten or suppressed the most annoying parts about it. Yeah it's really stupid in a game about tactics that flanking the enemy is one of the worst things you can do because you might accidentally trigger another pod of enemies. In a better game this would be just another wrench in the plans but in XCOM it's usually a dead soldier (or two) and because of such small squad sizes it can be a devastating blow to your firepower. If it's early game and you really need to rank up those soldiers so you can maintain parity in the late game? It screws you even further. Away all Goats has a new favorite as of 23:06 on Oct 3, 2019 |
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Oct 3, 2019 23:02
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sebmojo posted:It's been so long since I've had a bad time roleplaying this reads really weird to me but then I remember a session I sat in on like 20 years ago where the players spent all of it (3+ hours) trying and failing to cross a river and I start nodding. those guys were tedious dorks; don't play with tedious dorks. So...D&D is out then. Back to video games I guess. Whoever said most D&D players want to play Diablo was pretty spot on actually. I wish there was a cool turned based CPU RPG that used D&D-ish rules. I enjoy action RPG's but am old enough to remember stuff like Pool of Radiance that basically brought the table top experience to life without all the stuff people are bitching about. I'm sure there are games out right now that do this but I'm not aware of them. A turned based Ravenloft or something would be really cool.
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Oct 3, 2019 23:03
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Stelio Kontos posted:Borderlands.txt The Knoxx DLC in the original Borderlands is probably good, but having a giant highway you must traverse over and over without any fast-travel sort of kills the appeal. The zombie DLC had you fight these infuriating mobs of undead who vomit on you, which blocks your vision and kills your running speed. There's also a quest where you have to deliver 400 brains in increments. Any excess brains you pick up outside the quest are wasted. This is actually a test to see if you value your time by just using a save-editor. How is that Borderlands has a recurring cast who seem to have an establishment in every game? Crazy Earl has a scrapyard and runs a black-market on Pandora and the Moon. Scooter had three fancy garages with his name on it.
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Oct 3, 2019 23:07
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muscles like this! posted:Fought the Eden-6 Vault Guardian in Borderlands 3 and man alive that was a boring fight. Unlike the first Vault Guardian you fight this one just has a set routine which makes it easy to avoid its attacks so you just kind of have to sit there and shoot it over and over again trying to whittle down its immense health. The Ravager is probably the best boss in the game, too bad it happens fairly early.
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Oct 4, 2019 00:20
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Inspector Gesicht posted:The Knoxx DLC in the original Borderlands is probably good, but having a giant highway you must traverse over and over without any fast-travel sort of kills the appeal. The writing in Borderlands 3 is dragging that game down in a big way. It's actually a really competent game, it made a ton of mechanical improvements over 2/TPS and is just a fun romp with good guns. But holy gently caress every named character is the worst and the cutscenes are agonizing. Handsome Jack was not the best villain in all of video games but he was still charismatic enough and tonally consistent with Borderlands; the Calypso Twins are absolutely awful and suck the joy out of everything. The recurring characters are not any better. I do not care even slightly about Lilith, Tannis, or any of the other characters that omg I remember from BL1 wowowowow!!!
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Oct 4, 2019 00:28
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Since the metagame is geared around replaying with different characters then they really should have a plot-free mode which disables all cutscenes and voiceover. Doesn't the multiplayer in Diablo skip all the plot?
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Oct 4, 2019 00:34
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Inspector Gesicht posted:Since the metagame is geared around replaying with different characters then they really should have a plot-free mode which disables all cutscenes and voiceover. It does now, not sure about launch Diablo 3 that was a famous mess.
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Oct 4, 2019 00:36
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LIVE AMMO COSPLAY posted:It does now, not sure about launch Diablo 3 that was a famous mess. It didn't; the expansion adding a mode that let you ignore all of the story entirely was touted as a major feature (and it was, really). The problem with both Diablo 3 and Borderlands 3 isn't so much that the story exists, it's that the story sucks.
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Oct 4, 2019 00:38
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BiggerBoat posted:So...D&D is out then. Pillars of eternity 2.
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Oct 4, 2019 00:39
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RyokoTK posted:It didn't; the expansion adding a mode that let you ignore all of the story entirely was touted as a major feature (and it was, really). Yeah Borderlands 3 basically needs "Adventure Mode" which is what got added to Diablo 3.
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Oct 4, 2019 00:46
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At least Borderlands has basic gunplay and open-world gamelay beneath all the numbers. I have no idea what goes on in Diablo. You move around, click one of four buttons, hoover up gold and loot, then repeat. The first game was a kitchen-sink ARPG-Roguelike that became a hit. The third game is a carefully calculated skinner-box which expertly hides how few resources they put into the game. The expansion was one act and one new character which somehow costs 40 bucks.
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Oct 4, 2019 00:47
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All loot games are endorphin injections fueled by items drops, it's just whether they're good at that or not.
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Oct 4, 2019 00:51
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By the end I felt Diablo 3 leaned too far in the other direction, where most of my playtime ended up being earning currency in interchangeable randomised dungeons to pay for random loot from a vendor.
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Oct 4, 2019 00:52
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Samuringa posted:All loot games are endorphin injections fueled by items drops, it's just whether they're good at that or not. yeah but, like, man, you can say that about, like, any game, man whoaaaa
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Oct 4, 2019 00:55
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Anything Diablo 3 does bad, I still love it for letting me reach max level in one play session . All my skills open to me and any gear that drops will be final level gear is a good thing all other arpgs should rip off
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Oct 4, 2019 01:31
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sebmojo posted:Pillars of eternity 2. Great game. I think Divinity Original Sin 2 might feel a bit more table-top like in certain aspects, but either one is great for that pen and paper experience.
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Oct 4, 2019 01:32
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BiggerBoat posted:I wish there was a cool turned based CPU RPG that used D&D-ish rules. I enjoy action RPG's but am old enough to remember stuff like Pool of Radiance that basically brought the table top experience to life without all the stuff people are bitching about. I'm sure there are games out right now that do this but I'm not aware of them. A turned based Ravenloft or something would be really cool. PC port of Gloomhaven, when it's finished.
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Oct 4, 2019 01:47
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Ugly In The Morning posted:Great game. I think Divinity Original Sin 2 might feel a bit more table-top like in certain aspects, but either one is great for that pen and paper experience. oh yeah good call. DOS 1 is decent too, it's basically D&D 4e computer version but with more flaming poison.
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Oct 4, 2019 03:06
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Realmz
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Oct 4, 2019 03:52
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World Famous W posted:Anything Diablo 3 does bad, I still love it for letting me reach max level in one play session . All my skills open to me and any gear that drops will be final level gear is a good thing all other arpgs should rip off Diablo 3 is in my mind the perfect kind of game for what it's trying to do. You kill the monsters, you get the loot, you take your character to the limit until you get bored, then you start all over again with a new build in a few months. People seem to have trouble with the "getting bored" thing but for me this is just a natural part of the cycle, and it's totally cool to make a clean break for awhile. The more insidious thing is when a game throws a bunch of tedious dailies and login bonuses at you all the time so that you feel obligated to claim them, rather than the gameplay on its own being fun enough that you're motivated to keep playing.
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Oct 4, 2019 11:19
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BiggerBoat posted:So...D&D is out then.
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Oct 4, 2019 12:03
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There are so many PC RPGs that I really want to play/finish (like Baldur's Gate, Planescape Torment, etc) but I absolutely cannot stand how RTwP works with those games and will probably never be able to make it through them. It's just such a bad combat system. I don't know how it caught on.
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Oct 4, 2019 13:01
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Zinkraptor posted:There are so many PC RPGs that I really want to play/finish (like Baldur's Gate, Planescape Torment, etc) but I absolutely cannot stand how RTwP works with those games and will probably never be able to make it through them. the 2000s and early 2010s were a really weird and bad time for RPGs
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Oct 4, 2019 13:03
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Lunchmeat Larry posted:when I joined SA there was a keen and passionate faction of people who insisted that liking turn based combat was in fact literally racist hahahaha say what now
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Oct 4, 2019 13:12
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I don't remember the racist bit but I definitely remember a period of time when 'real time is literally a straight upgrade to turn based' was a real thing people would say. Chalk me up as another person who thinks RTwP is the single worst combat system in existance. One of the reasons I love D:OS so much is that it is just straight turnbased in a genre where every other game is RTwP and the combat is so much better for it.
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Oct 4, 2019 14:01
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I tried getting into Original Sin but the lack of direction in the first town bogged me down. Does the game have a conventional quest-marker system or PoE's convenient journal? How exactly is the sequel better to merit so much praise?
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Oct 4, 2019 14:06
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Pastry of the Year posted:hahahaha say what now it was a tvtropes mock thread from memory, so bottom of the barrel discourse to begin with, but
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Oct 4, 2019 14:12
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The dudes bored by D&D's "fail to do a thing over and over" poo poo need to try some Powered by the Apocalypse games like Apocalypse World or Dungeon World. Basic mechanic is that a good roll gets you what you want, an OK roll gets you what you want and something bad, and a bad roll lets the GM gently caress you up. None of this, "You fail to pick the lock, wanna try again?" poo poo.
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Oct 4, 2019 16:36
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Gort posted:The dudes bored by D&D's "fail to do a thing over and over" poo poo need to try some Powered by the Apocalypse games like Apocalypse World or Dungeon World. Basic mechanic is that a good roll gets you what you want, an OK roll gets you what you want and something bad, and a bad roll lets the GM gently caress you up. None of this, "You fail to pick the lock, wanna try again?" poo poo. If your DM is letting you retry until you succeed, they're doing it wrong. A fail means "you can't figure it out and you need to think of a different approach", not "keep rolling the dice till you get the right numbers".
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Oct 4, 2019 16:43
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It's also the sign of a bad DM. a fail should make things harder, but also open up more opportunities. So sure, you not only failed to convince the guard outright to let you in and gave him some blackmail material on you. That said, he does owe this crime boss money, so... And the adventure continues from there. poo poo happens sure, but that should just lead to more poo poo. Otherwise, what's the point of playing a TTRPG as opposed to a video game?
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Oct 4, 2019 16:51
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When you fail to pick the lock you just knock on the door. When the person on the other side opens it you cold cock them and run in.
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Oct 4, 2019 16:52
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Leal posted:When you fail to pick the lock you just knock on the door. When the person on the other side opens it you cold cock them and run in. Do you need a Necromancer with a Zombie pet for that, or do you summon a Frost Elemental?
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Oct 4, 2019 17:01
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Leal posted:When you fail to pick the lock you just knock on the door. When the person on the other side opens it you tell them you're escorting this prisoner and walk in.
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Oct 4, 2019 17:05
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