Don Gato posted:Warning: boring uniform chat incoming. No such drat thing.
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Oct 3, 2019 08:45
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Someone show me a naval uniform that actually stands out when the sailor goes overboard. 
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Oct 3, 2019 09:46
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Siivola posted:Someone show me a naval uniform that actually stands out when the sailor goes overboard.  The middle one. The right one would stand out if he wouldn't sink with his armor.
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Oct 3, 2019 10:48
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Milo and POTUS posted:How did ww2 fighters know they were low on ammo? Finish the belt off with a bunch of tracers? There also were planes with ammo counters. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBCgWU1IsQY
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Oct 3, 2019 10:52
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Looks like it would trap a decent amount of air too. He might actually survive.
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Oct 3, 2019 10:53
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Until the French disease gets him.
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Oct 3, 2019 10:55
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The Lone Badger posted:Looks like it would trap a decent amount of air too. He might actually survive.
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Oct 3, 2019 10:56
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ChubbyChecker posted:Speaking of... I've understood that zweihanders were carried on the shoulder like pikes or rifles and were sheathed during marches, but did pike or spearheads have sheaths?
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Oct 3, 2019 11:17
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Squalid posted:you pack birds and seals into these tanks: Going by wiki, the Island underwend a series of "snake eating Gorilla" treatments that ended up with hunter-killer teams mercilessly chasing down the few rabbits not killed by (poisoned?) bait and biowarfare: quote:By April 2012, the hunting teams had located and exterminated 13 rabbits still surviving since the baiting in 2011. The last five rabbits found were in November 2011, including a lactating doe and four kittens. No fresh rabbit signs were found up to July 2013.[38] On 8 April 2014 Macquarie Island was officially declared pest-free after seven years of conservation efforts.[39] This achievement is the largest successful island pest-eradication program ever attempted.[40
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Oct 3, 2019 11:46
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SeanBeansShako posted:No such drat thing. The US Army has also retired it's grey digital Universal Camouflage Pattern. I wonder if this is going to be an iconic part of the GWOT or just a foot note that the most powerful army on Earth adopted a camo pattern that doesn't really blend in with anything? 
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Oct 3, 2019 13:13
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It will be remembered, the US armed forces will always have flair with every uniform generation now either with fashion or function. Unless they keep bringing back the 2nd World War stuff. Also, that camo pattern blends in great with horrifying patterned 1970's furniture.
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Oct 3, 2019 13:56
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SimonCat posted:The US Army has also retired it's grey digital Universal Camouflage Pattern. I wonder if this is going to be an iconic part of the GWOT or just a foot note that the most powerful army on Earth adopted a camo pattern that doesn't really blend in with anything? It looks like it would blend in with poorly maintained roads so maybe they can issue it to the national guard
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Oct 3, 2019 13:57
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The Lone Badger posted:Looks like it would trap a decent amount of air too. He might actually survive. If he floats then he's a witch!
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Oct 3, 2019 14:10
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SeanBeansShako posted:It will be remembered, the US armed forces will always have flair with every uniform generation now either with fashion or function. They're bringing back World War stuff? If the US was bringing some uniforms back I kind of wish they'd bring back the old dark blue Union uniforms. That's a pretty neat color, you don't really need to blend in with khaki or green and poo poo for anything that isn't a BDU. Bring back the blues. Why not. Also I guess it might piss of Conservatives because they actually kind of hate America.
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Oct 3, 2019 14:15
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Siivola posted:Someone show me a naval uniform that actually stands out when the sailor goes overboard. Well you wear a white teeshirt under the dungarees.
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Oct 3, 2019 14:23
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Milo and POTUS posted:How did ww2 fighters know they were low on ammo? Finish the belt off with a bunch of tracers? Yup. Some German planes had ammo counters in the cockpit to let the pilot know how much ammo they had.
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Oct 3, 2019 14:24
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HEY GUNS posted:pikes don't. my hauptmann has a boar spear instead of a partisan and carries it with the head sheathed in a velvet bag like a big pointy liquor bottle but he bought it from france. after sweden he likes france the most, it's also where he gets his wine. good choice, swedish wine doesn't sound very good
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Oct 3, 2019 14:27
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and here are some tips for office camouflage: https://i.imgur.com/FBCgMfS.mp4
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Oct 3, 2019 14:31
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ChubbyChecker posted:
that guy is the oldest ensign in recorded history
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Oct 3, 2019 14:34
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:that guy is the oldest ensign in recorded history
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Oct 3, 2019 14:38
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ChubbyChecker posted:good choice, swedish wine doesn't sound very good Yeah, just ask Descartes. Meanwhile, Russians had the camouflage question figured out. 
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Oct 3, 2019 14:39
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HEY GUNS posted:the spanish rank alfarez combines the german ranks of flag-bearer and lieutenant, and he is the number two man in the company. that guy is serious business. what the hell why are they translating his name in english to the equivalent of a midshipman on land
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Oct 3, 2019 14:44
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ChubbyChecker posted:good choice, swedish wine doesn't sound very good Where I grew up in Norway (south east, between Oslo and Drammen) there's farmers who are now looking at going into wine production, setting up connections with people in France and such, hiring, going to on trips and courses and such to learn about it. The reason essentially being that due to the wonders of global warming, the climate in southern Norway is now quite similar to what you had in Bourdeaux and such about 200 years or so ago, and the conditions for grapes and such are actually pretty good. I don't think anythings's come to fruition as of yet, but a childhood friend of mine is now essentially running one of the larger farms (which is somewhat known nationally for producing ciders and such) looking into this, so I'll probably get my hands on some of it when the time comes. Then again I am not someone who knows alot about what makes wine good, other than it tasting nice and getting incredibly drunk on wine is a very different experience from getting incredibly drunk on beer. Randarkman fucked around with this message at 14:48 on Oct 3, 2019 |
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Oct 3, 2019 14:45
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:what the hell why are they translating his name in english to the equivalent of a midshipman on land
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Oct 3, 2019 14:48
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:what the hell why are they translating his name in english to the equivalent of a midshipman on land Ranks have changed meaning during the years. Ensign was someone who carried the the ensign flag and is the correct translation.
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Oct 3, 2019 14:49
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I'm not sure if what he's wearing counts as a "uniform".
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Oct 3, 2019 14:49
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Siivola posted:I'm not sure if what he's wearing counts as a "uniform". Good point, it probably isn't.
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Oct 3, 2019 14:51
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Nenonen posted:Yeah, just ask Descartes. "Hauptmann, where are the enemy soliders?" "I dont know! I can't find them in this field of Popes and owls!"
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Oct 3, 2019 14:56
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That must be one fantastic Ostern to watch.
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Oct 3, 2019 15:02
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SeanBeansShako posted:Until the French disease gets him. Italian!
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Oct 3, 2019 15:05
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Good luck being seen at all if you fall overboard, regardless of what uniform you’re wearing. You’re a speck in the ocean. First you’ve got to hope someone saw you fall over board (look outs are posted but they aren’t going to see everything and if it’s night...). If not, it’s going to be some time before you’re missed and accountability is taken. Ship has to turn around, put out helos and small boats (if it has them) and then try to find tiny you in the massive, shifting ocean. If the ship was making good speed or the water is rough you’re likely far off from the original course. If you fell from high enough you might have been knocked out. Thermals are gonna help much more than the color of your uniform. Dye is good, like someone else mentioned. Easily my biggest fear while underway.
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Oct 3, 2019 15:09
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ChubbyChecker posted:Ranks have changed meaning during the years. Ensign was someone who carried the the ensign flag and is the correct translation. also until the 1630s the flag guy was also the number two in german companies. lieutenant is number three. in the 30s and 40s this changed to the order we now have today.
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Oct 3, 2019 15:12
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Milo and POTUS posted:How did ww2 fighters know they were low on ammo? Finish the belt off with a bunch of tracers? As someone already posted, a lot of planes had ammo counters. This was ubiquitous in German planes from the start of the war, and by the end of the war it was adopted by basically everyone. The exception here is the USSR. Pilots also knew how long their guns could shoot. If you know you have enough ammo to hold the trigger down for ten seconds, you can keep track mentally. This is probably easier said then done while you're in the thick of things, especially in the first few engagements, where you're probably freaking the gently caress out. There's also simple experience - I've played a lot of WW2 flight sims, and after a while you develop a pretty accurate feel for how much ammo you have left. Of course, this requires you to keep a cool head, which is harder when your life is on the line and you have G-forces tugging you every which way, than sitting on your rear end playing a video game. There's also the fact that statistically, most pilots would not manage to rack up enough combat time to actually develop such a feel for their ammo load - That requires you to take part in a couple dozen engagements, which most pilots didn't manage to do. Most planes only carried enough ammo for a handful of seconds of firing time, and the most common mistake pilots did was shooting too early and too often - A German ace was quoted as saying that when you think you're close enough to score a hit, get even closer. When you think you can't possibly get closer, get a little bit closer still, and then fire. WW2 aircraft gunnery was hard as poo poo - If simulator video games are any indication, it's something you need literally dozens of dogfights to get good at, and that's not a luxury that real pilot had. There was no real way of training for it. There were no simulators, and mock dogfights were incredibly expensive and dangerous. Learning aircraft gunnery at the time must have been like trying to learn proper technique for a golf swing from a book - Sure, you have lots of pointers and theory down, but at the end of the day it's all muscle memory and hands on experience, which was impossible to get any other way than actually doing it for real.
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Oct 3, 2019 15:26
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Siivola posted:Someone show me a naval uniform that actually stands out when the sailor goes overboard. 
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Oct 3, 2019 15:42
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Geisladisk posted:There's also the fact that statistically, most pilots would not manage to rack up enough combat time to actually develop such a feel for their ammo load - That requires you to take part in a couple dozen engagements, which most pilots didn't manage to do. Yeah I was gonna say- most pilots in most engagements weren't going to be shooting long enough to run the guns dry. That's the sort of thing you read about in stories about shooting down six planes in one battle and running out of ammo chasing the seventh. But I imagine this was more likely over the Eastern Front or near the end of the war when allied planes were just strafing the rubble for good measure.
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Oct 3, 2019 16:18
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FuturePastNow posted:Yeah I was gonna say- most pilots in most engagements weren't going to be shooting long enough to run the guns dry. That's the sort of thing you read about in stories about shooting down six planes in one battle and running out of ammo chasing the seventh. If videogame simulators are any indication, it's really, really easy as a novice to blow your entire ammo load on a single enemy plane while accomplishing nil. Remember, some these planes had firing time measured in single digit seconds. Some of the Soviet fighters in particular could blow through their main cannon ammo loads in about 7 seconds. You need to be disciplined enough to both fire in very short bursts, and not to fire until you're at very close range. Those are both very, very hard to do until you have some experience under your belt, and again, that experience is impossible to come by in 1940something without actually risking your life in combat. This is all based on flight sims, so should be taken with a huge grain of salt, but I imagine it'd be exceedingly common for a novice to blow his load in the opening stages of a dogfight while accomplishing zilch. I'd love for someone with actual knowledge that doesn't come from video games to chime in.
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Oct 3, 2019 16:43
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Randarkman posted:They're bringing back World War stuff? If the US was bringing some uniforms back I kind of wish they'd bring back the old dark blue Union uniforms. That's a pretty neat color, you don't really need to blend in with khaki or green and poo poo for anything that isn't a BDU. Bring back the blues. Why not. Also I guess it might piss of Conservatives because they actually kind of hate America. They kinda did that and decided it didn't work. Briefly, at the end of WWII, the US Army didn't have a universal dress uniform. The officers had a green winter uniform that looked pretty nice "the pinks and greens," the enlisted men had wool trousers and a short coat that was a modified field item. In summer both wore khakis. After the war you also had tons of people wearing surplus uniforms for a variety of things so it actually became hard to tell if someone wearing a uniform was in the Army. So the Army fielded a new green dress uniform that was adopted for officers and enlisted men and eventually became the year round uniform for troops who weren't in the field. By the early 2000s the Army leadership felt this uniform was out of date and scrapped it in favor of a version of the dress blue uniform the Army had had since the 20s. After it was fielded, the modified blues were deemed to no be Army enough and looked to formal for day to day use, so they Army has decided to field a version of the WWII Officer's winter uniform to all the troops. The brass and military aficionados think this will solve all the morale, PR, and recruiting problems the Army has, while the main body of the troops shrugs their collective shoulders and just moves on. WWII Uniforms;   Class A uniform:   Dress Blues:   Pinks and Greens:  
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Oct 3, 2019 18:55
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I like the new dress uniforms  Bring back the Sam Browne!
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Oct 3, 2019 19:01
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Geisladisk posted:If videogame simulators are any indication, it's really, really easy as a novice to blow your entire ammo load on a single enemy plane while accomplishing nil. If you read combat reports from the Battle of Britain and the AVG in Burma/China (and, I'm sure, other WW2 engagments, but those are the two I have read up in some depth) and pilot memoirs it's far from unusual for pilots to come back from a sortie, or even a full-on scramble, without having fired a single round...even if they've dived straight into an enemy formation and been aggressively pursuing hostile aircraft. Because they're the disciplined ones who are waiting for that second-or-so firing window and in the 3D whirl of aerial combat, where you have to find the enemy, get into a good position to engage the enemy, make your attack and do so while not making yourself vulnerable to attacks from other hostiles in the formation or escorts, it sometimes never happens. Perhaps you mis-judge your approach, perhaps your target sees you coming and jinks out the way, perhaps you're ready to push the trigger and you see an enemy fighter (or think you see an enemy fighter) in your rear-view mirror, perhaps you spend five minutes in an contest of aerobatics and you never quite get your target close enough and in your crosshairs for long enough. Or you're running with your engine deep into emergency power settings with the manifold pressure gauge straining against its top peg chasing a bomber that you've spotted a few miles away and just above you...and then your coolant boils over and you have to slow down or risk an engine fire. Then there are the rookies or the ones who get over-excited or who just misjudge things and fire too soon, too late or too far away. Or perhaps only a quarter of a second of their two-second burst actually hits the target. That's just the nature of the game. A lot of the AVG pilots, when they went into combat in December '41/January '42 - all young guys with no previous combat experience and lured away from the US forces specifically by the promise of adventure and/or lucrative bounty payments - tried diving on Japanese bomber formations with their triggers held down in a sort of 'spray and pray' deal. It took more training and more experience for them to learn both the skills and the discipline to start racking up the combat record that the Group ended up with. There are a lot of very good reasons why you're considered an ace pilot with 'only' five kills. There are plenty of perfectly competent and courageous fighter pilots who flew in active duty for years and only downed one or two enemy aircraft. It was a game that had a massively high skill barrier just to enter, and then you needed both skill and luck to be successful at it. And, as has already been said, you needed to be lucky enough to survive long enough to get the experience to be really competent at the business of combat flying. I think this is pretty universal for war. A lot of the Allied convoy escort warships in the Battle of the Atlantic steamed back and forth for four or five years, going to action stations at least once every night and making genuine, targetted attacks on submarines. Each ship must have dropped hundreds, if not thousands, of depth charges over the stern by the time the war ended. Yet many of the corvettes, frigates and destroyers didn't claim a single U-boat kill, and plenty of the others had only one or two. Of course that doesn't mean that those attacks didn't disrupt the U-Boats' activities, just as a P-40 diving down on them from 20,000 feet with all six guns blazing didn't disrupt the mission of the Japanese bombers heading for Kunming, even if they didn't register anything definitive.
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Oct 3, 2019 19:02
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| # ? Jun 2, 2024 11:02 |
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I was gonna write pretty much exactly this. "Shooting" was actually pretty close to the very end of competencies for a fighter pilot. Starting the plane was hard. Taxiing and taking off were hard...very hard in some planes. Flying in a formation, maintaining your aircraft, and navigating were hard. Maneuvering was hard. Landing was hard. Just being able to do all of that well enough that you were more of a danger to the enemy than yourself and those around you took months of training. Flight sims, for obvious reasons, focus way more on the "shooting" part of things than anyone ever did historically. To that end, gunnery training tended to be very, very light for pretty much everyone but the US, and the RAF to a somewhat lesser extent, but only later in the war. It wasn't uncommon for a late-war German or Japanese pilot's first time firing live ammo to be in combat. The US though...had a 4-6 week long gunnery training block of instruction where pilots were firing live rounds daily, and sometimes even firing (frangible bullets) on actual aircraft instead of just towed targets (sidenote: flying a target aircraft was probably pretty high on the list of lovely wartime jobs) Anyway, if you actually made it through all of the training and learning, AND found yourself in a situation where there were actually targets (note: this was a lot less frequent than one might think), AND had the necessary mental and physical talents to be able to actually hit something, you were really something of a rare commodity. But, if you did get to that point, you were a very, very effective weapon. And, this is why a relatively small number of pilots had a hugely disproportionate number of kills...the vast majority of pilots on all sides were just trying to not crash.
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Oct 3, 2019 19:53
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