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Time to write an erotica novel, The Bate Gatsby.
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Sep 10, 2019 20:09
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Go horror: Grater Gatsby.
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Sep 10, 2019 20:10
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get the Health At Every Size crowd with the Great Fatsby
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Sep 10, 2019 20:32
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‘Make Gatsby Great Again’ hats. Original idea do not steal.
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Sep 10, 2019 21:54
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This is a film essay but we’ve had a lot of chats in this thread about how to write better action. I love how this guy breaks down action sequences as a series of obstacles for the protagonist to overcome. http://www.davidbordwell.net/essays/anatomy.php
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Sep 11, 2019 00:50
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Anomalous Blowout posted:This is a film essay but we’ve had a lot of chats in this thread about how to write better action. I love how this guy breaks down action sequences as a series of obstacles for the protagonist to overcome. That sounds similar to the advice offered by a book I read ("How to Write a Dynamite Scene Using the Snowflake Method"), except that it's not just action sequences - every scene, the whole book should be a series of obstacles to overcome. Every scene should have a small self-contained conflict. The book put forth that there are two types of scenes - proactive and reactive, and if you want compelling scenes, you need to keep things moving. Proactive should generally have a structure of Goal, Conflict, Setback (or rarely, a victory). The PoV character should have a clear goal they want to achieve by the scene's end (this is not their ultimate goal, it's their scene goal). There is conflict in the form of something that is interfering with them accomplishing the goal. And at the scene's conclusion, there should be a setback - either the problem has changed or a new problem appears. If a setback at that point would end the story, then you give the PoV character a victory - a brief respite from the crisis. Most scenes should be proactive. Reactive scenes have a structure of Reaction, Dilemma, Decision. The reaction is an emotional response the PoV character needs to work through. Their dilemma is that all their options seem bad and they need to figure out which is the least bad. At the end, they make a decision and commit to it. Sebastian DeCastell's "Spellslinger" series (which has a great deal of action) seems to use this style, and it pulls it off really well. Stabbey_the_Clown fucked around with this message at 15:26 on Sep 11, 2019 |
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Sep 11, 2019 14:53
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I know my last foray here did not go well. Entirely my own fault, honestly. This time, I thought I would maybe have the ideas looked at earlier on in development. Maybe things would go better if I showed the outline before I did the draft. That way some red flags could be caught earlier.I don't know if that's looked down upon. I just thought it would go better since the first draft turned out so poorly last time. I'm big on mapping things out when I'm writing. I have a tendency to get bored and abandon a story for a while. If I don't map things out, I will forget where the story is going. I usually plot out the general beats to get an idea of what I wanted to do. It also helps me stay on track when writing. I have two ideas. One of them is from a while back and the other is recent. Both of them have questionable origins. Working Title: It's Your Fault I'm Not Normal: This draft started from a thought. Basically, and I know this is a red flag, I wondered what Gohan from Dragonball Z's life would be like, emotionally. He does kind of have a neglectful father. This kind of spiraled out over time into something unrelated to Dragonball. It basically has become a story of broken family in New York and feels more like a Superman pastiche at this point. The notes on the general idea is here. Working Title: Declaration of Womanhood: This is technically more recent. Full disclosure: I'm a closeted trans woman who has been struggling with gender issues for years. When I was a kid, I liked this series called Ranma 1/2. Recently, I realized how much I just kind of projected my own gender issues and wish fulfillment on that series and how none of what I wanted from it was in that show. I decided just to use the idea of the series as a spring board for a story about someone transitioning. The idea is now that a trans woman who just came out of the closet is given the power to fully transition instantly (I loving wish it was that easy). However, when they get dysphoria, it stops working. I'm honestly keeping this artifact from the original premise mainly because its actually a very apt metaphor for how it feels to be trans sometimes. Gender dysphoria is a bitch. Their father isn't accepting of their transition and it causes a strain in their relationship. Their father, Shinji, goes to live with his friend, Ichiro, and his daughter, Angela, to help sort out the situation. This leads to a series of events that eventually leads to family coming together. The notes on the general idea is here. These are the two stories I've been throwing around. I'm thinking of doing drafts soon. But, since the last time I wrote a story it went so bad, I feel like having these outlines looked at first is a good idea. I'd understand, however, if this is considered a faux pas and that I should come back with a draft. I just rather not let things get so embarrassingly bad like it was last time. Covok fucked around with this message at 07:11 on Sep 16, 2019 |
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Sep 16, 2019 04:33
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Covok posted:These are the two stories I've been throwing around. I'm thinking of doing drafts soon. But, since the last time I wrote a story it went so bad, I feel like having these outlines looked at first is a good idea. I'd understand, however, if this is considered a faux pas and that I should come back with a draft. I just rather not let things get so embarrassingly bad like it was last time. The story you write is dependent entirely on the way you write it. There's amazing stories that have awful seeming outlines, and awful stories that have everything planned out in a technically perfect fashion. You're thinking about narrative arcs; this is good, but your execution is what it'll be judged against - not your Ideas. If you want permission, or for someone to tell you what you've done is the Right Thing To Do, you're not going to write a good story, because you're going to spend every moment asking people "did I do it right?" Your first draft will suck, because that's what first drafts do. You gotta write the story you're confident in, not the one people are telling you to write. Also, like, nine out of ten writers you speak to about outlines are going to tell you they wound up deviating wildly from their plans, even when they tried to sketch things out exactly, so y'know. Who cares? I'm a positive fuckin' person, and I don't want to make you feel like I'm attacking your ability to make ideas, but like. ideas are cheap as hell and they mean nothing. "A couple of bums wait for a dude who doesn't show up" is a terrible idea, but it's one of the most famous plays of all time. "A legendary vampire hunter teams up with Frankenstein's monster to take down the biggest evil ever" is a dope concept, but Van Hellsing fuckin' suuuucked. "A girl's mother disappeared and she wants to find her" is like a dozen concepts, but is it boring like Watch Me Disappear, or charming like Where'd You Go, Bernardette? Basically, what I'm tryna say is, the best you're gunna get out of that is people telling you "yep, those look like involved outlines." Once you're a proven writer and your output is known, you can start pitching outlines to your agent because they'll have a professional interest in making sure you write a good story and a decent grip on what you can achieve. Right now, these are just ideas documents. e: If you need an answer, like, someone telling you what to do, write the second one, it's more personal to you than "what if gohan but sad" Wungus fucked around with this message at 14:03 on Sep 16, 2019 |
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Sep 16, 2019 14:00
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The second story sounds more interesting, or at least more personal as a premise. Both of these could make fine stories, but at this point, who knows? None of your readers are going to get to see this outline. Ideas are crucial for starting a story, but it's the execution of those ideas that matters in the end. You've got an idea of the structure of both stories, which is good. Some people need more structure up front, some people write first and figure out the structure in editing, and some people fall somewhere in the middle where they do a bit of planning and a bit of exploratory writing. As you move into writing these, don't worry if your story starts to diverge from the outline. Looking at a map of the Amazon isn't the same as standing in the middle of a jungle, and looking an outline isn't the same as being in the thick of your story. Also, I'm not saying you're doing this, just that it's an easy trap when you're working from a structure--there's plenty of story plans out there, from Joseph Campell to Dan Harmon to whatever that book is about cats. These kinds of plans are descriptive more than anything; they generalize a structure that successful stories seem to follow. They can be helpful, but like any "rule" of writing, they're only helpful to the extent that they make your story better. If you get an idea that doesn't fit the story plan, but it would make your story more interesting, more compelling, more real, whatever, then gently caress the plan. No one is reading your story to judge it against an idealized story structure. In conclusion, write the story, then worry if it's good or not.
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Sep 16, 2019 15:02
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Agreed. Telling people your story idea is like telling someone about your dreams. Nobody gives a poo poo unless it’s catchy and short and even then probably not because it only has meaning to you. They only get that meaning when you write it out. Having said that I think you have some interesting ideas in there. Being completely honest the anime connections make me roll my eyes a bit (and I watch anime) but as long as you hide the fingerprints well so it won’t end up reading like fanfic you should be good. But I want to hear about this story theory involving cats...
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Sep 16, 2019 15:18
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Doctor Zero posted:Agreed. Telling people your story idea is like telling someone about your dreams. Nobody gives a poo poo unless it’s catchy and short and even then probably not because it only has meaning to you. They only get that meaning when you write it out. Likely, It's only okay, but good for plot shorthand terms like Dark Night of the Soul
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Sep 16, 2019 15:46
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Thanks, I couldn't remember if it was save the cat or kick the cat or cook the cat or what.
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Sep 16, 2019 17:06
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Thank you for your replies. I suppose I was being overly cautious. I think I'll do the second story and see how it turns out.Doctor Zero posted:Agreed. Telling people your story idea is like telling someone about your dreams. Nobody gives a poo poo unless it’s catchy and short and even then probably not because it only has meaning to you. They only get that meaning when you write it out. Honestly, the only anine thing left in these stories is Carla and Shinji being martial artists traveling the world. And I might dump that idea as it isn't super neccesary. I just need an excuse for them to globe trot together and a "manly" sport for Carla to enjoy to trigger some internal conflicts. If you're wondering why we need the later, its mainly because I'm rather tomboy for a trans woman. Like, I'm a woman who was AMAB and I do engage in traditionally girlish activities for affirmation, but I'm really not "girly" when it comes to hobbies or mannerisms and have no plans to change.
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Sep 16, 2019 19:23
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Is it normal for the first draft to be lumps of text unintelligible to anyone but you?
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Sep 16, 2019 20:54
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SelenicMartian posted:Is it normal for the first draft to be lumps of text unintelligible to anyone but you? Sure.
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Sep 16, 2019 21:08
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Second draft of Charred is done. Now to wait on reader feedback to figure out what needs to be done for draft 3. Should take a few weeks, enough time to get started on other work. Decided I'm going to write a horror novel next. Will start it in November so we'll see how that works out. I don't know how to write horror so that'll be fun to see what people think of it. Apparently Charred drew some comparisons to Stephen King novels? Like a Perfect Storm and the like. Which was surprising but, you know, I'll take it.
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Sep 16, 2019 22:41
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Congratulations! Horror's hard. I've tried it a bunch of times and always feel like I'm feeling flat on my face.
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Sep 17, 2019 01:04
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Whalley posted:Congratulations! I'm going to take my own unique spin on it. I'm not good at recognizing horror, I don't really get scared by movies or books. But I am a big fan of it, so I'm just going to write a slasher novel with a bit of a narrative trick. The slasher villain and the main girl are going to be the co-main characters. Everything from the slasher's POV will be first person, and third person from everyone else. We'll see how it works out! I basically just want to write my own take on a slasher story, but with a good, focused story. Some fun twists on how the killer thinks and works, too. We'll see.
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Sep 17, 2019 01:49
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Hey, all. I'm kinda new to the writing game (outside of Ye Olde Fanfic Days), but I've been feeling particularly inspired for the past year or so, and after a bunch of hemming and hawing and false starts, I finally managed to write a short-ish fantasy story (about 10k words) that I intend to build off of for an episodic type thing. Problem is that for the life of me I just can't get any drat eyeballs on the thing, and since it's my first serious writing, I'm sure it's awful and in need of a good thrashing. A large part of my problems stem from not being able to find active writing communities (outside of the always mega-popular fanfic sites, of course). Especially since I'm not writing heavy romance. It's not like I'm looking to make money off of my work just yet or anything. As of right now it's just a hobby/creative outlet that maybe I'll do something with if it somehow turns out I ever get good. So, yeah, SA seems like a fun place to get help, and I'll probably be posting a thread with a link to my story soon to see if anyone's interested in giving it a look once I get it all up in a format people like. (Question: what formats do people like? Google Docs? Dropbox? Posted on some other hosting site?) Thanks!
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Sep 22, 2019 00:37
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I’m game. I like giving crits. I think most people do a google docs link so you can take it down if you want to, or upload new versions. Dropbox should work too. I prefer to read PDFs personally, manuscript format, but I don’t think it matters much for feedback.
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Sep 22, 2019 01:30
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Finally worked up the courage to fix up some Google Docs and make a thread, you can find it here: https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3899420
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Sep 23, 2019 09:39
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I'm on chapter three so far of "Declaration of Womanhood." It turns out one of my gal pals is also a writer and was willing to be a test reader. That has honestly been invaluable. A big problem I have is I often lose enthusiasm and give up on a story. According to her, she is genuinely invested emotionally after the scene where Angela does Carla's makeup. We're both trans and she said she just loved that scene since she felt it was an egg cracking scene for Carla. Having someone looking forward to your next chapter really helps you write. She's also good at critiquing. She writes herself so she's really good at explaining where and why I need to get better. Without her saying something, I probably wouldn't have done more work with Joe. She felt he was very one-dimensional in the notes and that he needed to be more than just a savior so to speak. I might make a thread when I am done with the first draft. Like the entire story. My friend that thinks that it's probably going to be done within 50 to 100 pages at the pace that I'm going.
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Sep 25, 2019 04:15
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Speaking of Critique, how do you handle Critique feedback? TD is a bit mum on critique feedback, so in other circles do you like, ask the author for feedback on your critique? I try to ask questions before critique on what the author wants, and so far it has been hit and miss.
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Sep 25, 2019 15:59
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Exmond posted:Speaking of Critique, how do you handle Critique feedback? TD is a bit mum on critique feedback, so in other circles do you like, ask the author for feedback on your critique? I admit I've never actually asked for critique feedback, but I've never really thought to ask for it before. I've mostly learned how to give better critiques (and write better) by reading other people's critiques of the same work. Inevitably people will pick out issues that I didn't notice or factors I didn't think of, and that helps to sharpen my own editing skills. Also critique circles have been a big help to me in that respect, if for no other reason than the couple I've been in, some of the writers have been pretty good about asking specific questions that they weren't getting enough critique on, which helped me to identify issues that I was inclined to overlook.
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Sep 25, 2019 16:39
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Exmond posted:Speaking of Critique, how do you handle Critique feedback? TD is a bit mum on critique feedback, so in other circles do you like, ask the author for feedback on your critique? I've never really given feedback on critique before, but I'd like to apologize for not directly answering your questions when you asked in my thread. I honestly didn't really know how to answer them, as I hadn't really put much thought into them before. As for the critique itself, though, you were very insightful, and the encouragement you gave along with it was much appreciated. Sorry to have subjected you to my poor first attempt at things.
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Sep 25, 2019 16:42
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Exmond posted:Speaking of Critique, how do you handle Critique feedback? TD is a bit mum on critique feedback, so in other circles do you like, ask the author for feedback on your critique? The legit writing groups I've been a part of asked questions that are very similar to the ones you've asked (what's your demo, what do you want out of critique, do you have any questions for us, etc etc), so I'd say you're doing it well enough. There's always gonna be people who are new to critiques and dont know wtf you're asking, but people who are used to critiques typically appreciate the questions you're asking because they bring focus to the discussion.
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Sep 25, 2019 18:47
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I tend to critique in two passes. Initial reactions can be helpful, but if I find myself asking a question that’s answered in the next paragraph or next page, I go back and delete the, “But what about...?” Because most readers tend to give the author the benefit of the doubt for at least that long. So I sit on my crit for a day so I can go back and ask the bigger questions, the ones that linger, in the morning after the person’s piece has had time to settle in my brain. I don’t feel like I’m giving a crit my full attention if I only do one pass, zoomed in on a sentence level without any sense of the bigger picture.
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Sep 25, 2019 18:57
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Two questions:
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Sep 30, 2019 22:54
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Calvinos if on a winter's night a traveler sort of does this, and it's v good and entertaining too
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Sep 30, 2019 23:02
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I'm writing one of those right now, and the characters openly mock the narrator. OK, he's not omniscient, he's really bad at reading emotions off people, and he gets replaced by a character for a few chapters, but... There's no direct interaction between Don Quixote and the author in the second book, is there?
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Sep 30, 2019 23:15
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Wark Say posted:Two questions: A third-person omniscient narrator... which means not a human character acting as a narrator. That's unusual. All I can really think of is this, which isn't literature.
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Oct 1, 2019 00:18
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Wark Say posted:Two questions: Stanley Parable is a great example, but that answer is kind of cheating.
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Oct 1, 2019 00:25
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sebmojo posted:Calvinos if on a winter's night a traveler sort of does this, and it's v good and entertaining too  Exmond posted:Stanley Parable is a great example, but that answer is kind of cheating.  SelenicMartian posted:I'm writing one of those right now, and the characters openly mock the narrator. OK, he's not omniscient, he's really bad at reading emotions off people, and he gets replaced by a character for a few chapters, but... Stabbey_the_Clown posted:A third-person omniscient narrator... which means not a human character acting as a narrator. That's unusual. All I can really think of is this, which isn't literature. Sorta like... Wark's example off the top of his head posted:The waitress quickly left, seemingly oblivious to Donatan’s flirty gesture. Serves you right, you dog.
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Oct 1, 2019 01:36
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Wark Say posted:Yeah, something along those lines/with a similar vibe is what I was thinking (and along of what I've been writing). Like I just put the "let's say, a third person omniscient" as an example, but if the narrator kinda/sorta fucks around and gets stuff wrong, that's even better. If you want a longer example to study from, I actually did a Let's Play of the Bard's Tale in a narrative style, which included trying to mimic the style of the Narrator.
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Oct 1, 2019 02:00
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There are a number of short films and comedy sketches that do this. I feel like Douglas Adams has done it, but I can't confirm since I haven't read his stuff in decades. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FBJlVlugZYc The Stanley Parable is also a fantastic example.
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Oct 1, 2019 03:43
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I have a problem with being too nice to my characters. All of my stories just sort of fade into this really boring situation where only good things are happening. I just really struggle putting a character through any sort of lasting trauma. Does anyone have any advice on getting over this?
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Oct 4, 2019 04:25
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bigperm posted:I have a problem with being too nice to my characters. All of my stories just sort of fade into this really boring situation where only good things are happening. I just really struggle putting a character through any sort of lasting trauma. Does anyone have any advice on getting over this? i wouldnt say your characters need to have lasting trauma, but placing obstacles in their way to overcome is going to make a story more interesting. place your character into a situation where they have to make some hard decisions, but it doesnt have to be something that is traumatic. i mean, you seem to know what the problem is, so the advice is really just write situations where things arent going well for your characters and then keep doing that, really.
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Oct 4, 2019 04:49
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Is it okay for biases to show up in writing? I started my story about an seven-foot-tall amnesiac waking up in a tomb with a magical katana grasped in his hand and I somehow ended up with him in court for assaulting his world's equivalent to a cop for trying to arrest a pair of beggar children. It's only the third chapter.
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Oct 4, 2019 05:33
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Biases in what way? Characters themselves having biases is a super common way to give them flaws or otherwise characterize them. You, the writer, having biases? I think it helps to be self-aware about them, but I also think it's impossible to truly do away with them. They tend to leak through in even the most competent writer's writing. Depending on your true opinions on the nature of said bias, you might even be motivated to incorporate it as a theme/point in the story purposefully (such as the "cops are bad" point you seem to be implying with the story snippet you talked about). Just be aware of and avoid incorporating biases you're pretty sure are harmful, such as ingrained racial biases and the like.
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Oct 4, 2019 06:55
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Screaming Idiot posted:Is it okay for biases to show up in writing? I started my story about an seven-foot-tall amnesiac waking up in a tomb with a magical katana grasped in his hand and I somehow ended up with him in court for assaulting his world's equivalent to a cop for trying to arrest a pair of beggar children. It's only the third chapter. have you read *anything* that wasnt biased in some way. some of the best works of art in general are highly biased.
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Oct 4, 2019 07:32
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