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Also, IMO drop the Assassin, they're terrible because of how the game engine works. If you want Tyrion dead, bog him down in rats and shoot the gently caress out of him.
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Oct 4, 2019 15:40
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The Gunslinger posted:Haha well it is my first Skaven campaign and I was doing super well up until this point, I didn't really experiment much. Infantry lines might be how most factions fight but skaven infantry is mega garbo and stormvermin aren't really an exception to this. Skaven are all about weapon teams, artillery, and monsters, their infantry is seriously only there to be a tar pit or as a last resort, your objective is to keep the enemy at range long enough to shoot them to pieces with your guns, and the solution to a particularly tough enemy is basically concentrated fire. Ratling guns are the best all purpose weapon (and funniest to watch) but jezzails are also a great option, especially if you need a range advantage or want to shoot something a bit tankier than your average formation of goons. Running an infantry line as skaven is actually really counterproductive because as noted they get in the way of most of your weapon teams. And you can summon a pile of clan rats on top of anything you need tar pitting anyway, or enemy artillery just to annoy them.
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Oct 4, 2019 15:41
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One exception is the stormvermin with shields + Death Globe / Poison Wind Globadier units. The stormvermin with shields can actually hold fairly well with leadership bonuses, so you can tarpit the enemy at close range and then let your grenadier units evaporate their frontline.
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Oct 4, 2019 15:46
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toasterwarrior posted:Also, IMO drop the Assassin, they're terrible because of how the game engine works. If you want Tyrion dead, bog him down in rats and shoot the gently caress out of him. They are quite good at being a small single target to engage enemies while your guns shoot whoever they are fighting. It's like condensing your Skaven slaves into a single non los blocking rat.
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Oct 4, 2019 15:47
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Arcsquad12 posted:One exception is the stormvermin with shields + Death Globe / Poison Wind Globadier units. The stormvermin with shields can actually hold fairly well with leadership bonuses, so you can tarpit the enemy at close range and then let your grenadier units evaporate their frontline. I haven't used globes much in vanilla, did they add actual area effects to them? When I used them last they just seemed like weird short range arrow units and I couldn't see the point. SFO I think makes them area effect but it was a choice between that and more ratlings so, uh, the ratlings won out 
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Oct 4, 2019 15:49
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I would enjoy skaven more if they didn't have to cheese the end game so hard. Then again I have always been one of the few weirdos who though pestilens was coolest. But still, even in tabletop skryre-heavy builds still had lots of infantry to tarpit but in TW slaves, clanrats, and even stormvermin and plague monks become wasted space in campaign after a certain point. Doomflayers and gun teams removed the last incentive you had to bring even minimal infantry in most circumstances. Hilariously I think slaves in practice have lost the most effectiveness of maybe any unit in the transition from tabletop- they were seriously a contender for most OP unit. Cheapest infantry in the game, get strength in numbers, always have steadfast, you can shoot them in the back, and they explode and deal damage instead of fleeing. Obviously they were only OP combined with shooting units but man dwarfs, empire, ogres, or elves would have killed for them.
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Oct 4, 2019 15:59
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AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:Hey I did this too and felt really smart about it. Though in going after Middenland I was not able to go after Wissenland (I'm trying out a game on Hard/Hard and did not want to risk a two front war) and I think I would rather have Wissenland - its a great place to have Artillery and Infantry recruitment stuff due in part to its Iron trade good, and it also has Marble so it helps you make probably just as much money. The fealty trick only works if you don’t wipe the count’s faction right? Like is there a secret to re-establishing a faction so you can get the +authority from re-establishing an elector? I somehow only ever get the secession events when I am short on the 1k influence and then the assholes fight to the death without ever wanting peace.
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Oct 4, 2019 16:42
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Kalessin ofSelidor posted:The fealty trick only works if you don’t wipe the count’s faction right? Like is there a secret to re-establishing a faction so you can get the +authority from re-establishing an elector? Ravenfood fucked around with this message at 17:13 on Oct 4, 2019 |
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Oct 4, 2019 16:59
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OwlFancier posted:I haven't used globes much in vanilla, did they add actual area effects to them? When I used them last they just seemed like weird short range arrow units and I couldn't see the point. SFO I think makes them area effect but it was a choice between that and more ratlings so, uh, the ratlings won out Poison Winds are pretty much obsoleted by Jezzails, but few things kill mobs faster than Death Globes. In SFO, Poison Winds will melt anything (and mobs) with concentrated fire, and Death Globes are the only thing that can kill mobs faster than Warpfires. The thing is...the difference in effectiveness is such that you can pretty much get away with just sticking with Poison Winds, since your other teams can pick up the slack and you also keep the substantial bonus vs large.
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Oct 4, 2019 17:10
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The Gunslinger posted:At the very end of my Skaven campaign, I kinda got lazy and totally forgot about the Vortex bullshit. The High Elves finished their ritual so I need to knock them out of the race but I keep getting trounced by Tyrion. Id get 3-4 warp Lightning cannons, since the dragons getting inna Backline is the worst. Your warlock engineer should be able to lock air units in the air as well. A couple of death globes to kill elites is good. A few jezzails and a few ratlings. No sword and board stormvermin, go with 6 units of polearm stormvermin since they have armor pierce. Gutter runners (poison) are also a good choice for skirmishers. Try to get them in he backline 3x heroes/ll, 6x stormvermin, 2x gutter runners(poison) 2x death globes 2x jezzails 2x ratlings 3x warp lightning Thats a stable and strong army comp. Skrolk should spam his summon magic at all times. Kill dragons first. String his army out and bomb it to bits Edit: also you’ll guys need the CHEVRON formation, and for That you need a solid front line Wild Horses fucked around with this message at 17:18 on Oct 4, 2019 |
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Oct 4, 2019 17:16
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plus the visceral satisfaction of throwing poison grenades at elves and melting their stupid immortal faces into goo
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Oct 4, 2019 17:17
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Ikit's endgame army should be exclusively weapon teams, artillery, heroes and doomflayers. The flayers can bog down enemies just fine and act as infantry that your weapon teams can shoot through. Other Skaven may need infantry.
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Oct 4, 2019 17:51
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Do Doomflayers not take that much friendly fire? I agree that Ikit especially should have mostly weapons teams/artillery for endgame armies. I have always found Warpfire Throwers to be more effective than Globadiers of any variety, but that may just be because of my tactics.
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Oct 4, 2019 18:01
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AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:Do Doomflayers not take that much friendly fire? Warpfire guys are finicky fucks. Death globes always work and have beautiful arcs!
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Oct 4, 2019 18:04
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Doomflayers will be in the middle of the enemy formation so they will be shielded from friendly fire by enemy bodies.
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Oct 4, 2019 18:08
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Warpfire throwers are hands down the most destructive weapons team the Skaven can field, provided you position them correctly. They also have the hilarious side effect of causing so much screen rumble when they do damage that you'd think an earthquake was happening.
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Oct 4, 2019 18:24
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Wild Horses posted:Warpfire guys are finicky fucks. Death globes always work and have beautiful arcs! edit: though I have noticed that sometimes they shoot all of their fire at one guy at the edge of the enemy formation. edit2: then again I have seen anything with a ranged attack do that sometimes. AAAAA! Real Muenster fucked around with this message at 18:36 on Oct 4, 2019 |
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Oct 4, 2019 18:32
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Ravenfood posted:If a faction has been totally wiped out (even by you, or even if you confederated them) and you conquer a settlement that was originally theirs, you can re-establish the faction. This means razing an enemy's last settlement and then immediately re-settling it will work just fine to re-establish an elector with high fealty to you. You also still keep the elector seat, assuming you didn't give them their capital back. Cool, tyvm  In this episode of “how to empire”, is there a trick to unlock defensive/military alliances? Got a mission to do one but don’t have an option with anyone, regardless of fealty or relations. Didn’t see a tech that unlocks them, but I feel I’m missing something. Using Mixu LL in ME if that makes a difference.
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Oct 4, 2019 19:04
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Kalessin ofSelidor posted:Cool, tyvm No idea about Mixu, but also check your reputation (anything lower than "high" seems to tank chance of alliances), relative strength, and personality of the target faction.
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Oct 4, 2019 19:24
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Enigma posted:No idea about Mixu, but also check your reputation (anything lower than "high" seems to tank chance of alliances), relative strength, and personality of the target faction. Yeah, I was checking those for sure. So like an example I got a dude with 8 fealty, trusted friends, me currently 28 strength (just had a big ol battle)/ him 42. But I don’t even get an option on diplomacy to ask for alliances. E: sorry also no mutually exclusive war and alliance combos between each other
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Oct 4, 2019 19:31
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Kalessin ofSelidor posted:Cool, tyvm No idea about Mixu, so I'd assume there's a mod conflict somewhere. By default you should be able to form military or defensive alliances with anyone you're not at war with. I don't remember how vassals work, but I think they automatically count as being allies so you can't ally with them even more. Can you form NAPs with the target faction?
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Oct 4, 2019 19:33
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Ravenfood posted:No idea about Mixu, so I'd assume there's a mod conflict somewhere. By default you should be able to form military or defensive alliances with anyone you're not at war with. I don't remember how vassals work, but I think they automatically count as being allies so you can't ally with them even more. Can you form NAPs with the target faction? Yeah, can do NAP, trade (where routes exist), and access. Current mods are Mixu LL 1 and 2, Mixu Mousillon, and the Unlocker (updated!) and the Unlocker Unlocked. Hmmm can’t remember if I had a reason for both of those last 2 or they somehow conflict....
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Oct 4, 2019 19:37
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The Unlocker Unlocked is only useful for modders or people who want to play as a faction that has absolutely no custom support beyond 'you can choose it', so try disabling that one. Do you get the option to form alliances with other, non-Empire factions or is it the same with everyone?
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Oct 4, 2019 19:47
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I thought you literally can't do alliances with other empire factions post-update?
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Oct 4, 2019 19:50
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AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:
This is a recurring engine quirk ever since CA started using the warscape engine for Empire Total War onwards. Artillery and some range units would always focus fire on the edge of a formation if you commanded them to fire on a target rather than letting them fire at will.
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Oct 4, 2019 20:09
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Looks like alliances outside the empire are doable but not with, so guess that’s actually normal then. Huh, thought i was doin it wrong
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Oct 4, 2019 20:11
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All this skaven chat reminds me of picking Queek at TW2 launch and how much that sucked because I went after his Stormvermin bonuses.
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Oct 4, 2019 20:18
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Kalessin ofSelidor posted:Looks like alliances outside the empire are doable but not with, so guess that’s actually normal then. Huh, thought i was doin it wrong Yeah, this is true. Pretty sure I saw a mod on the workshop that lets you vassal and ally them though
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Oct 4, 2019 20:21
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all this talk about weapons teams is fine and all, but have you tried putting a few rat ogres in your army? those guys are absolute goons
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Oct 4, 2019 20:35
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Wild Horses posted:absolute goons doesn't sound like anyone I want in my army
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Oct 4, 2019 20:36
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skaven infantry ain't that bad for cost, just in sp they don't great techs or skill bonuses and the logistics system puts a bit of a damper on quantity builds. that and their slightly worse stats become abysmally low compared to the buffs poo poo gets in h/vh still, the higher end stuff can do work. stormvermin halberds are not frontline troopers at all, tho, and a lot of people don't clue into that. swordvermin do okay to pretty nice if you debuff armor (and rats got several tools for that) but they prefer to punch down: elites with AP tend to mess them up.
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Oct 4, 2019 20:44
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I like using ninja rats on my flanks to go run down enemies with their crazy high attack and weapon strength.
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Oct 4, 2019 20:48
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i like halberds just because they can actually sort of damage monstrous units a little bit, instead of tickling them. The entire army is a big glass cannon and its a race to blow the other guys out
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Oct 4, 2019 20:48
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:I would enjoy skaven more if they didn't have to cheese the end game so hard. Then again I have always been one of the few weirdos who though pestilens was coolest.
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Oct 4, 2019 20:50
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Wild Horses posted:all this talk about weapons teams is fine and all, but have you tried putting a few rat ogres in your army? those guys are absolute goons
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Oct 4, 2019 20:53
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neonchameleon posted:In the game of rock-paper-scissors that Total War often is, the Silver Helms are scissors - whereas the Reaver Archers are at any given moment your choice of scissors and paper. Yes, the Helms are better scissors... This is one of best explanations of this concept I've heard. It applies to almost any strategy game, and real life. In this case as you noted, the reaver archers are cheaper making it an easy choice, as opposed to say an f35 vs an f22, where the extra roll costs more.
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Oct 4, 2019 20:59
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Shumagorath posted:They're sort of like Trolls / Chaos trolls in that they have poo poo leadership. They're the closest thing you get to cavalry until the Doom-whatever weapons though. If you want to prevent that warsphinx from evaporating your entire front plonk some rat ogres in front of it
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Oct 4, 2019 21:27
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Lol, Chrace assassinated my runesmith one turn after I signed a trade agreement with them. I didn't get a grudge. The biggest dawi bug of all time (even though I'm glad cuz the grudgin' mechanic still needs work.) Otherwise I'm having fun playings dorfs for the first time in forever. The infinite greenskin swarms from like turn 15 are as fun as ever and I got stormed Black Crag and killed Grimgor with a Grombrindal/Gotrek tag team, which was great.
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Oct 4, 2019 21:31
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Shumagorath posted:They're sort of like Trolls / Chaos trolls in that they have poo poo leadership. They're the closest thing you get to cavalry until the Doom-whatever weapons though. Edgar Allen Ho posted:Lol, Chrace assassinated my runesmith one turn after I signed a trade agreement with them. I didn't get a grudge. Last time I played as Empire, Angrund was obsessed with murdering my heroes no matter what our diplomatic relations were. I'm just trying to complete a quest, guys!
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Oct 4, 2019 21:43
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| # ? Jun 8, 2024 01:42 |
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Darkshards (Great Weapons)(Armored & Shielded)(Blessed By The Lady)
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Oct 4, 2019 22:19
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