[canada] I don't need to take lessons on marginalized people. I'm ITALIAN!

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > C-SPAM > [canada] I don't need to take lessons on marginalized people. I'm ITALIAN!

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DariusLikewise: Oct 4, 2008; You wore that on Halloween?

what the gently caress

https://twitter.com/AndrewScheer/status/1179874247700881409?s=20

# ? Oct 3, 2019 22:53

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# ? May 24, 2024 03:00

Harold Stassen: Jan 24, 2016

Harold Stassen has issued a correction as of 04:27 on Jun 20, 2021

# ? Oct 3, 2019 23:04

Harold Stassen: Jan 24, 2016

Harold Stassen has issued a correction as of 04:27 on Jun 20, 2021

# ? Oct 3, 2019 23:08

Helsing: Aug 23, 2003; DON'T POST IN THE ELECTION THREAD UNLESS YOU JOE BIDEN

Yeah there's a term for that: crapification.

quote:

James Surowiecki Promotes Myth of Consumer Empowerment in the Face of the Crapification of Almost Everything

Posted on February 10, 2014 by Yves Smith

There�s nothing like getting a missive from the alternative reality where neoliberalism works and all consumer problems can be solved by more diligent shopping (and remember, since we are all consumers first and citizens second, the corollary is that pretty much any problem can be solved by better shopping).

The current sighting is a story in the New Yorker by James Surowiecki, The Twilight of Brands, that tries to tell us, in all seriousness, that companies now have to be on their toes because consumers are more vigilant and less loyal. He starts with the backlash against yoga clothes maker Lululemon when quality fell sharply, and states his thesis:

quote:
It�s a truism of business-book thinking that a company�s brand is its �most important asset,� more valuable than technology or patents or manufacturing prowess. But brands have never been more fragile. The reason is simple: consumers are supremely well informed and far more likely to investigate the real value of products than to rely on logos. �Absolute Value,� a new book by Itamar Simonson, a marketing professor at Stanford, and Emanuel Rosen, a former software executive, shows that, historically, the rise of brands was a response to an information-poor environment. When consumers had to rely on advertisements and their past experience with a company, brands served as proxies for quality; if a car was made by G.M., or a ketchup by Heinz, you assumed that it was pretty good. It was hard to figure out if a new product from an unfamiliar company was reliable or not, so brand loyalty was a way of reducing risk. As recently as the nineteen-eighties, nearly four-fifths of American car buyers stayed loyal to a brand.

This is utterly backwards. The reason �brands have become more fragile� does not not reside in demanding, disloyal customers, but in short-sighted corporate behavior. Surowiecki does point to the early 1980s as the beginning of the sea change, but the driver was a shift away from businesses focusing primarily on good old fashioned success in the marketplace (via matching product quality/price attributes versus customers needs, improving manufacturing processes, looking for new product/technology opportunities, etc) to focusing much more on financial results as the key determinant of success. That orientation arose as raiders, later rebranded as leveraged buyout firms, and now private equity, took over companies, sold unproductive assets, piled on debt, and pushed hard to wring out costs. While many companies were so fat that a lot of overhead could be reduced without affecting production and marketing, the pressure to reduce costs soon moved into areas that involved manufacturing and product quality. Companies began subtly, and then more overtly, lowering product quality and running on brand fumes.

And even though Surowiecki talks about quality, it�s important to remember that branding is about consistency: you are providing a consistent set of product attributes at a certain price level. Dollar Stores is a brand where everything costs a dollar and you can find a broad range of merchandise. That�s a straightforward proposition. Volkswagens (the old beetles and iconic vans) were light-weight, simple to maintain, no frills cute cars at a modest price.

What Surowiecki is talking about is that consumers are engaging in a long-overdue and largely futile backlash against the crapification of almost everything. I�m not a car buyer, but I understand some high-end brands like the Lexus and Prius have stayed true to their consumer promises. But the trend overwhelmingly is the reverse. Let�s give some examples:

quote:
Consumer white goods. Washing machines, dishwashers, and stoves all used to be good for forty years absent a leak-induced short or other unusual mishap. Now you are lucky to get ten. I have a little no-name brand gas stove that the astonishingly capable cleaning woman I had when I moved in pronounced to be good. It is. I�m sure you can�t find an inexpensive gas stove that comes close these days. Similarly, in the days when I was more flush and a tenant destroyed an Electrolux, I bought another good (but not as good) vacuum cleaner, a Miele. The engine crapped out in eight years, one beyond the warranty. And remember, I live in a small New York apartment, so it was not as if this machine got heavy use.

Tools. Readers lament in comments about how Sears Craftsman tools were terrific and the current tools under that name are poor imitations and it�s hard to find anything comparable to the old Craftsman line.

High end clothing. In my old days in investment banking, I dressed to look the part. By the mid 1990s, the deterioration in women�s clothing was evident. The tailoring and materials were markedly worse. I regarded shopping a chore rather than fun, and so tended to shop like a man (I have a uniform so I am very focused and am normally able to case the very short list of stores that carry my sort of thing in minutes to see if there are any candidates) and used to find my brief furbishing missions efficient and more pleasant than I anticipated (I�d either score quickly or not waste much time). As everything got subtly shoddier, I had to look wider and would not find things I liked.

And I�ve had this confirmed by people who actually like shopping and are serious about fashion. For instance, one stylish LA matron (A list on the charity circuit in her younger days) has a tailor altering her clothes. He worked at Hermes for 30 years and says the quality of the materials and the manufacturing is markedly worse.

Mid range clothing. In the winter, I live in cotton turtlenecks, black jeans, and pullover sweaters. Cotton turtlenecks have been systematically cheapened over the years. The length is shorter (and I prefer a hip-length shirt, both for warmth and to tuck more securely into pants). They are uniformly more fitted (which I don�t like), which uses less fabric. The turtlenecks themselves are shorter (I had a huge and unproductive argument with Land�s End when they shortened the necks by one inch and have never bought from them since). The cottons are thinner weave.

Mattresses. Josh Kosman, in his book The Buyout of America, discusses at length about how the private equity ruined mattresses. Once the industry became a duopoly, the incumbents could foist crappy products on customers with impunity. Two sided mattresses (which last longer, not just because flipping them lets you wear both sides, but flipping is also better for the mattress for reasons not particularly worth explaining) were replaced with one-sided makes. Customers have been migrated away from spring mattresses to foam, which are cheaper to produce (Kosman has even more examples of how mattresses have become a Soviet-level product). Yet the prices are higher in real terms despite the degradation.

But apparently Surowiecki lives only in the Lexus/iPhone market and has somehow managed to miss how the overwhelming majority of manufacturers seem perfectly willing to adulterate their good and risk consumer rejection. But since so many are willing to join them in the race to the bottom, the Lululemon-esqe rebellions are few and far between.

# ? Oct 3, 2019 23:12

infernal machines: Oct 11, 2012; we monitor many frequencies. we listen always. came a voice, out of the babel of tongues, speaking to us. it played us a mighty dub.

half cocaine posted:

why doesn't anyone call out this guy in public?

I've been talking poo poo about him for years, but they don't invite me on the CBC no more.

# ? Oct 3, 2019 23:37

Streak: May 16, 2004; by Nyc_Tattoo

bring back old gbs posted:

lmaoooo holy gently caress Jagmeet Singh without his turban

http://www.cbc.ca/player/play/1603628611549/
He shows a reporter how he ties it in a bun in this clip.

Are we sure this isn't Justin in brownface tho

# ? Oct 3, 2019 23:59

priznat: Jul 7, 2009; Let's get drunk and kiss each other all night.

DariusLikewise posted:

what the gently caress

https://twitter.com/AndrewScheer/status/1179874247700881409?s=20

Arthur "two sheds" Jackson

# ? Oct 4, 2019 00:16

Juul-Whip: Mar 10, 2008

Canada's discount Nate SIlver is a political science major who pretends to understand statistics, while the real Nate Silver is a statistician who pretends to understand political science

It's like poetry, sort of.

# ? Oct 4, 2019 00:18

infernal machines: Oct 11, 2012; we monitor many frequencies. we listen always. came a voice, out of the babel of tongues, speaking to us. it played us a mighty dub.

does it rhyme?

# ? Oct 4, 2019 00:31

Another Bill: Sep 27, 2018; Born on the bayou
died in a cave
bbq and posting
is all I crave

infernal machines posted:

does it rhyme?

no but the imagery is very evocative

# ? Oct 4, 2019 01:42

priznat: Jul 7, 2009; Let's get drunk and kiss each other all night.

They should have a baby

# ? Oct 4, 2019 03:51

incontinence 100: Dec 21, 2018; by LITERALLY AN ADMIN

priznat posted:

They should have a baby

there aren't enough social services in the Nordics to cure that child of autism

# ? Oct 4, 2019 06:04

a primate: Jun 2, 2010

Helsing posted:

Yeah there's a term for that: crapification.

This is utterly backwards. The reason �brands have become more fragile� does not not reside in demanding, disloyal customers, but in short-sighted corporate behavior. Surowiecki does point to the early 1980s as the beginning of the sea change, but the driver was a shift away from businesses focusing primarily on good old fashioned success in the marketplace (via matching product quality/price attributes versus customers needs, improving manufacturing processes, looking for new product/technology opportunities, etc) to focusing much more on financial results as the key determinant of success. That orientation arose as raiders, later rebranded as leveraged buyout firms, and now private equity, took over companies, sold unproductive assets, piled on debt, and pushed hard to wring out costs. While many companies were so fat that a lot of overhead could be reduced without affecting production and marketing, the pressure to reduce costs soon moved into areas that involved manufacturing and product quality. Companies began subtly, and then more overtly, lowering product quality and running on brand fumes.

And even though Surowiecki talks about quality, it�s important to remember that branding is about consistency: you are providing a consistent set of product attributes at a certain price level. Dollar Stores is a brand where everything costs a dollar and you can find a broad range of merchandise. That�s a straightforward proposition. Volkswagens (the old beetles and iconic vans) were light-weight, simple to maintain, no frills cute cars at a modest price.

What Surowiecki is talking about is that consumers are engaging in a long-overdue and largely futile backlash against the crapification of almost everything. I�m not a car buyer, but I understand some high-end brands like the Lexus and Prius have stayed true to their consumer promises. But the trend overwhelmingly is the reverse. Let�s give some examples:

But apparently Surowiecki lives only in the Lexus/iPhone market and has somehow managed to miss how the overwhelming majority of manufacturers seem perfectly willing to adulterate their good and risk consumer rejection. But since so many are willing to join them in the race to the bottom, the Lululemon-esqe rebellions are few and far between.

[/quote]

private capital gets invested in publicly traded companies, who buy out smaller manufacturers, tending the system towards monopoly. once there are only a few players in a market, the companies begin to hollow themselves out in order to be more profitable. labour cuts and value engineering lead to the crapification of consumer goods and the elimination of real warranties or service

publicly traded companies are the wellspring of crap

# ? Oct 4, 2019 13:47

vyelkin: Jan 2, 2011

i like how boeing crapified its own airplanes to maximize shareholder profits until they started literally falling out of the sky and costing the company billions in canceled orders

# ? Oct 4, 2019 13:52

Precambrian Video Games: Aug 19, 2002

Helsing posted:

Yeah there's a term for that: crapification.

While planned obsolescence is certainly a thing, I've read more convincing articles that argue that the rosy view of the reliability of consumer goods (particularly appliances) and cars back in the day is tainted by survivorship bias. There was plenty of American-made crap before manufacturing fled to Asia.

half cocaine posted:

why doesn't anyone call out this guy in public?

I submitted a complaint to the CBC. I'm sure they took it very seriously.

# ? Oct 4, 2019 14:02

Risky Bisquick: Jan 18, 2008; PLEASE LET ME WRITE YOUR VICTIM IMPACT STATEMENT SO I CAN FURTHER DEMONSTRATE THE CALAMITY THAT IS OUR JUSTICE SYSTEM.; Buglord

bring back old gbs posted:

lmaoooo holy gently caress Jagmeet Singh without his turban

http://www.cbc.ca/player/play/1603628611549/
He shows a reporter how he ties it in a bun in this clip.

Aquaman 2 looking good.

# ? Oct 4, 2019 15:02

DariusLikewise: Oct 4, 2008; You wore that on Halloween?

COMPAGNIE TOMMY posted:

Tim Hortons can't even cook a loving doughnut anymore. I can't remember the last time I had one that was baked completely through and wasn't raw.

This country's loving finished.

thats weird because tim hortons donuts are cooked at a factory in norway i think?? then freeze dried and sent overseas here where they get reheated in a special oven and splattered with lovely glaze

# ? Oct 4, 2019 15:36

Entorwellian: Jun 30, 2006; ~~Northern Flicker~~
Anna's Hummingbird

Sorry, but the people have spoken.

DariusLikewise posted:

thats weird because tim hortons donuts are cooked at a factory in norway i think?? then freeze dried and sent overseas here where they get reheated in a special oven and splattered with lovely glaze

What the gently caress!?!? For real? That's atrocious. What a bunch of swindlers. Doesn't sound any better than a 7-11 donut.

# ? Oct 4, 2019 15:48

Postess with the Mostest: Apr 4, 2007; Arabian nights
'neath Arabian moons
A fool off his guard
could fall and fall hard
out there on the dunes

Entorwellian posted:

What the gently caress!?!? For real? That's atrocious. What a bunch of swindlers. Doesn't sound any better than a 7-11 donut.

Welcome to 2010 broski.

# ? Oct 4, 2019 15:56

Dr. Stab: Sep 12, 2010; 👨🏻‍⚕️🩺🔪🙀😱🙀

My only question is why can't we get the old donuts at McDonald's like we can with the coffee?

# ? Oct 4, 2019 15:58

my morning jackass: Aug 24, 2009

there is a place in Hamilton that does donuts which will fulfill the desire for classic tims donuts and they manage to be cheaper also.

# ? Oct 4, 2019 16:30

Postess with the Mostest: Apr 4, 2007; Arabian nights
'neath Arabian moons
A fool off his guard
could fall and fall hard
out there on the dunes

Yeah apparently the frozen ones cost twice as much to make too.

# ? Oct 4, 2019 16:34

Arivia: Mar 17, 2011

my morning jackass posted:

there is a place in Hamilton that does donuts which will fulfill the desire for classic tims donuts and they manage to be cheaper also.

even better than that, hit up Global Donuts in Sarnia if you're down that way for real classic donuts

(I presume you mean Granddad's, which is okay but Global blows them out of the water)

# ? Oct 4, 2019 16:37

infernal machines: Oct 11, 2012; we monitor many frequencies. we listen always. came a voice, out of the babel of tongues, speaking to us. it played us a mighty dub.

imagine for a moment, voluntarily spending time in hamilton, or sarnia, for a donut.

the mind boggles

# ? Oct 4, 2019 16:46

priznat: Jul 7, 2009; Let's get drunk and kiss each other all night.

Honestly 7-11 donuts are pretty decent. Their fritters are especially good with the right amount of crispy edges. May vary depending on local suppliers but here I like em.

Tim�s has sucked for a long rear end time.

# ? Oct 4, 2019 17:02

The Rubberband Man: Jul 21, 2019; by LITERALLY AN ADMIN

I thought they had a bunch of ~~slaves~~ TFWs in some factory in Ontario cooking all the donuts for Tim Hortons until they get their hands cut off and sent back to wherever they came from?

# ? Oct 4, 2019 17:06

Arivia: Mar 17, 2011

infernal machines posted:

imagine for a moment, voluntarily spending time in hamilton, or sarnia, for a donut.

the mind boggles

Look if I could afford to move out of Hamilton I would immediately

# ? Oct 4, 2019 17:09

infernal machines: Oct 11, 2012; we monitor many frequencies. we listen always. came a voice, out of the babel of tongues, speaking to us. it played us a mighty dub.

no, that's fair, everyone's gotta live somewhere after all, i just wouldn't go there for a donut

# ? Oct 4, 2019 17:11

crazy eyes mustafa: Nov 30, 2014

is there a canpol/canspam toxx thread for the big election?

# ? Oct 4, 2019 17:18

crazy eyes mustafa: Nov 30, 2014

Canada SPAM thread should just be called Klik imo

# ? Oct 4, 2019 17:19

infernal machines: Oct 11, 2012; we monitor many frequencies. we listen always. came a voice, out of the babel of tongues, speaking to us. it played us a mighty dub.

it's the canpol thread.

post your toxx and helsing will note it.

# ? Oct 4, 2019 17:21

Helsing: Aug 23, 2003; DON'T POST IN THE ELECTION THREAD UNLESS YOU JOE BIDEN

eXXon posted:

While planned obsolescence is certainly a thing, I've read more convincing articles that argue that the rosy view of the reliability of consumer goods (particularly appliances) and cars back in the day is tainted by survivorship bias. There was plenty of American-made crap before manufacturing fled to Asia.

I have an ipad from many years ago that I pretty much exclusively used to read my kindle library / various downloaded PDFs and to occasionally browse the web. One day I actually wanted to put an app on it so I stupidly updated the apple operating system which hadn't been touched since whenever I got the thing back in like 2010. It immediately became like half as functional and can't read most webpages without crashing unless I gently caress with the settings a bunch. The thing worked great until I stupidly downloaded however many years of crappifying updates I had been avoiding, and suddenly the ipad was only useful as a PDF / Kindle reader.

Anecdotally when I've had landlords replace old appliances the new ones invariably are crappier. Air Lines seem to get worse every year. Places like Tim Hortons have gone from baking on site to serving crap out of a freezer. I know people out there still using their Kitchen Aid appliances from decades ago whereas a lot of newer stuff breaks down almost immediately, to an extent that I think goes beyond what can be explained through a cognitive bias. Older pots and pants tend to be made from cast iron rather than Teflon, which is designed to be replaced every few years. I don't game very much any more but from what I gather anecdotally a lot of franchises these days have fewer features and less gameplay content than previous iterations of the franchises from a decade ago.

Some of these are changes in consumer culture and production techniques rather than just intentional planned obsolescence but across a wide range of fields I think there's pretty clear examples of measurable declines in quality or lifespan.

# ? Oct 4, 2019 17:57

DariusLikewise: Oct 4, 2008; You wore that on Halloween?

if you try to replace anything on newer iphones, like any home repairs, the phone will brick itself and tell you to go get it repaired at the apple store

# ? Oct 4, 2019 18:43

EvilJoven: Mar 18, 2005; NOBODY,IN THE HISTORY OF EVER, HAS ASKED OR CARED WHAT CANADA THINKS. YOU ARE NOT A COUNTRY. YOUR MONEY HAS THE QUEEN OF ENGLAND ON IT. IF YOU DIG AROUND IN YOUR BACKYARD, NATIVE SKELETONS WOULD EXPLODE OUT OF YOUR LAWN LIKE THE END OF POLTERGEIST. CANADA IS SO POLITE, EH?; Fun Shoe

That should be illegal and it could have been but the Liberals killed a right to repair bill like the good little capitalist whores they are.

# ? Oct 4, 2019 18:55

a primate: Jun 2, 2010

DariusLikewise posted:

if you try to replace anything on newer iphones, like any home repairs, the phone will brick itself and tell you to go get it repaired at the apple store

for real? last time I replaced a phone battery was when I had my iPhone 5, got a replacement from a Canadian seller on eBay for like 4 dollars.

# ? Oct 4, 2019 19:03

bring back old gbs: Feb 28, 2007; by LITERALLY AN ADMIN

a primate posted:

for real? last time I replaced a phone battery was when I had my iPhone 5, got a replacement from a Canadian seller on eBay for like 4 dollars.

yeah you cannot do that poo poo anymore, everything is firmware coded. the screen(which has been sandwiched together permanently with the digitizer for a while now), the battery, the home button(somewhat understandable as it has the touchID poo poo in it), probably the thunderbolt connector, absolutely the camera modules. Everything in the phone on a separate daughter board, probably even the tiny ribbon cables themselves

EvilJoven posted:

That should be illegal and it could have been but the Liberals killed a right to repair bill like the good little capitalist whores they are.

yeah

bring back old gbs has issued a correction as of 19:56 on Oct 4, 2019

# ? Oct 4, 2019 19:52

Juul-Whip: Mar 10, 2008

right to repair is in the federal NDP platform :science:

# ? Oct 4, 2019 20:01

DariusLikewise: Oct 4, 2008; You wore that on Halloween?

so is anything going to happen thats actually going to shake up this election or are we just going to get the libs and cons lobbing spitballs at each other until we get a barely-lib majority in 17 days

last election things changed like 34 days before e-day. this time everything has remained pretty much steady throughout this entire election period.

# ? Oct 4, 2019 22:21

Postess with the Mostest: Apr 4, 2007; Arabian nights
'neath Arabian moons
A fool off his guard
could fall and fall hard
out there on the dunes

Did you say 17

https://twitter.com/jamesdifiore/status/1180213515535208448

# ? Oct 4, 2019 22:27

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# ? May 24, 2024 03:00

infernal machines: Oct 11, 2012; we monitor many frequencies. we listen always. came a voice, out of the babel of tongues, speaking to us. it played us a mighty dub.

writes for quilette and the post millennial? you don't say.

# ? Oct 4, 2019 22:32

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > C-SPAM > [canada] I don't need to take lessons on marginalized people. I'm ITALIAN!

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