|
The request, which is identical to all the secret real requests he has made, was just a joke. e: 
|
#
?
Oct 4, 2019 18:33
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 5, 2024 20:55 |
|
|
So how long until trump says it was a real request
|
|
#
?
Oct 4, 2019 18:33
|
|
|
fool_of_sound posted:To be perfectly clear here, the following topics are directly US Politics but have been relegated to their own threads for various reasons: In my opinion it's an ultinately unworkable framework because it's meant primarily to suppress topics that upset a certain type of affluent white liberal that frequents this thread- not actually encourage free discussion and debate.
|
|
#
?
Oct 4, 2019 18:33
|
|
|
hidden_msg posted:Turns out facebook has been around since before the internet and cops harassing minorities was due to Russia's influence the entire time. The gently caress? Strawman much? When did I say cops being racist were caused by Russia? Please go rage against another machine. Russia took advantage of racism and amplified it in places it knew would have an impact, like police and law enforcement, the NRA, etc.
|
|
#
?
Oct 4, 2019 18:33
|
|
|
Prester Jane posted:All Russia has done is pour fuel on the fire that America built. Russia didn't cause these problems, we did. All Russia's done is exploit and inflamed are internal tensions for the benefit of their own agenda. Counter-point: every southern slave owner was a secret Russian operative.
|
|
#
?
Oct 4, 2019 18:33
|
|
|
Oh good it's the return of "Not Intended to be a factual statement" gently caress you Rubio, you spineless wimp who got completely owned by a bunch of high schoolers.
|
|
#
?
Oct 4, 2019 18:33
|
|
|
mod sassinator posted:It's bizarre that so many people want to bury their head in the sands about this. Russia and Putin have not even been shy about their intentions and we've known for a long time they've been trying to create chaos and undermine democracy: http://www.slate.com/articles/news_...a_lot_like.html this only works because domestic forces have created a population susceptible to bullshit.
|
|
#
?
Oct 4, 2019 18:34
|
|
|
Rigel posted:Yeah, I think I'd have to say the "he was just joking" defense is the best you got if you can't go along with "its perfectly fine to ask other countries to dig up dirt on your opponents" defense. It's a prank, bro!
|
|
#
?
Oct 4, 2019 18:34
|
|
|
Angry_Ed posted:Oh good it's the return of "Not Intended to be a factual statement" It's pretty dope that policies are sometimes actually dictated via twitter and press conferences, and then other times are totally just a joke guys, and don't pay attention to them!
|
|
#
?
Oct 4, 2019 18:35
|
|
|
fool_of_sound posted:Yeah it's this. Pretending that our own cultural failings are the result of outsider propaganda is actively detrimental to making efforts to fix them, and reinforces toxic American exceptionalism and imperialism. You can build the best wizard of oz fantasyland you want, but if outside actors are attacking it with disinformation campaigns it will fall apart. We're both on the same page that poo poo is hosed--it's just a matter of arguing over whether we should stop the attackers first or rebuild first.
|
|
#
?
Oct 4, 2019 18:35
|
|
|
mod sassinator posted:The gently caress? Strawman much? When did I say cops being racist were caused by Russia? Please go rage against another machine. Russia took advantage of racism and amplified it in places it knew would have an impact, like police and law enforcement, the NRA, etc. This is what you originally posted: mod sassinator posted:Folks are missing the point (left and right). America didn't become 'divided' or its power start declining because of things internally. It was a demonstrably wrong thing to assert. That's why people are calling you out.
|
|
#
?
Oct 4, 2019 18:36
|
|
|
mod sassinator posted:You can build the best wizard of oz fantasyland you want, but if outside actors are attacking it with disinformation campaigns it will fall apart. We're both on the same page that poo poo is hosed--it's just a matter of arguing over whether we should stop the attackers first or rebuild first. THE ATTACKS ONLY WORK IF THE FRACTURES ALREADY EXIST
|
|
#
?
Oct 4, 2019 18:36
|
|
|
mod sassinator posted:You can build the best wizard of oz fantasyland you want, but if outside actors are attacking it with disinformation campaigns it will fall apart. We're both on the same page that poo poo is hosed--it's just a matter of arguing over whether we should stop the attackers first or rebuild first. Exactly. Personally my thought it we need to stop the attackers, because there's no loving way we're getting a functional Second Republic if the GOP/Fox News/et. al get any sort of say. EDIT: I should preface that i'm not including Russia in this statement, I'm just thinking more about the absolutely known quantities within the country that could be exploited by outside forces
|
|
#
?
Oct 4, 2019 18:36
|
|
|
mod sassinator posted:You can build the best wizard of oz fantasyland you want, but if outside actors are attacking it with disinformation campaigns it will fall apart. We're both on the same page that poo poo is hosed--it's just a matter of arguing over whether we should stop the attackers first or rebuild first. How do we stop the attackers, in your mind? Start a war with Russia because they're doing to us what we routinely do to them?
|
|
#
?
Oct 4, 2019 18:37
|
|
|
mod sassinator posted:Yes, it is. Here are facts: https://www.newsweek.com/facebook-popular-information-kosovo-police-lives-matter-1462297 You're free to post facts too or stupid quips. the origins of policing in America today are in the South Carolina Slave Patrol. the slang term for police vehicle, "paddywagon," comes to us directly from the wagon the paddyrollers- the people paid by the state to round up runaway slaves, beat them savagely, and then cart them back to their owners- would take around town. it took us a century to come up with the idea "hey what if we expanded their remit to more than just black people." russia is not the reason police are racist, OP.
|
|
#
?
Oct 4, 2019 18:37
|
|
|
mod sassinator posted:The gently caress? Strawman much? When did I say cops being racist were caused by Russia? Please go rage against another machine. Russia took advantage of racism and amplified it in places it knew would have an impact, like police and law enforcement, the NRA, etc. Your post placed the blame for the divisions in America on the Russians. The divisions have been there since before Russia was a country, as has been pointed out already. Don’t move the goalposts.
|
|
#
?
Oct 4, 2019 18:37
|
|
|
Groovelord Neato posted:this only works because domestic forces have created a population susceptible to bullshit. Well that's great information to know if you get a time machine and can reform society 50+ years ago. I like to live in the present where we can change things and stopping the misinformation, propaganda and bullshit seems like a good place to start. Basically, delete your twitter account. Delete your instagram. Delete your facebook. Don't feed this bullshit and don't try to rage about the purity of our democracy until you put your money where you mouth is and stop helping the companies that enable this to spread.
|
|
#
?
Oct 4, 2019 18:38
|
|
|
Rubio’s ability to hold public office is another sign that Florida is a horrible place.
|
|
#
?
Oct 4, 2019 18:38
|
|
|
mod sassinator posted:Folks are missing the point (left and right). America didn't become 'divided' or its power start declining because of things internally. Stuff like the tea party certainly didn't help, but the big thing that we're just now starting to uncover is an enormous, concentrated effort by Russia to undermine and weaken democracy in America. The cold war never ended... the battlefield changed and we didn't realize it. Spreading influence by gaming and taking over social media with bots and influence networks helped Russia amplify and divide folks on both sides. Their explicit goal was to confuse and weaken the country by having folks fight against each other. This isn't a hypothetical or clancychat--the senate just confirmed the entire NRA was compromised by Russia, huge Facebook and Twitter networks to amplify and sow hate in law enforcement, etc. were just shut down last week. Hemming and hawing and debating about how much we changed is worthless. We've been under a direct assault for years and the weapons are likes, retweets, and posts instead of smart bombs and cruise missiles. Weird stance dude. Russia didn't operate Cambridge Analytica, which can almost certainly be said to be responsible for the 70k swing votes that pushed trump over the line in a few states. Broadly, I'd argue that a lot of our problems stem from the erosion of protections put in place after the last gilded age, coupled with a legislative body wholly incapable of moving quick enough to combat the changing social landscape influenced by technology since the start of the internet age, which both can be contextualized by a consumerist culture that relies on a very long history of slavery, wage slavery and imperialism to feed itself and its desires. If our culture valued things like an educated populace, personal data rights, egalitarianism over profits and power we wouldn't have been open and susceptible to influence by loving facebook memes. Large swaths of our country just loving suck rear end and are real dumb.
|
|
#
?
Oct 4, 2019 18:38
|
|
|
mod sassinator posted:You can build the best wizard of oz fantasyland you want, but if outside actors are attacking it with disinformation campaigns it will fall apart. We're both on the same page that poo poo is hosed--it's just a matter of arguing over whether we should stop the attackers first or rebuild first. ...... the whole point of the character of The Wizard of Oz is that his power was an illusion that was ultimately unsustainable. You seem to be arguing that the illusion would have sustained itself indefinitely if only someone from outside the illusion hadn't attacked it.
|
|
#
?
Oct 4, 2019 18:39
|
|
|
Getting rid of legalised bribery for politicians would be a good start for both the US and UK. Money's influence on politics is inherently anti-democratic.
|
|
#
?
Oct 4, 2019 18:39
|
|
|
Majorian posted:How do we stop the attackers, in your mind? Start a war with Russia because they're doing to us what we routinely do to them? This is sort of an interesting question. I have always fallen back to better education so people can have critical thinking skills and progressive social safety nets so people don't have to compromise those skills due to stress of working 60hrs a week or some such. I'd be interested in hearing alternatives.
|
|
#
?
Oct 4, 2019 18:39
|
|
|
mod sassinator posted:Well that's great information to know if you get a time machine and can reform society 50+ years ago. I like to live in the present where we can change things and stopping the misinformation, propaganda and bullshit seems like a good place to start. But that's not what your argument was at the beginning of this discussion. Your argument was that the divisions we see in the U.S. today did not come about due to internal issues with our political system, but rather, were caused by Russian interference. hidden_msg posted:This is sort of an interesting question. I have always fallen back to better education so people can have critical thinking skills and progressive social safety nets so people don't have to compromise those skills due to stress of working 60hrs a week or some such. I'd be interested in hearing alternatives. Sounds good to me. I'd throw in "Stop loving with other countries' elections and economies for the benefit of multinational corporations," and a few other things, but that's a good start imo.
|
|
#
?
Oct 4, 2019 18:39
|
|
|
mod sassinator posted:You can build the best wizard of oz fantasyland you want, but if outside actors are attacking it with disinformation campaigns it will fall apart. We're both on the same page that poo poo is hosed--it's just a matter of arguing over whether we should stop the attackers first or rebuild first. No, they can only exploit what's already there. Russia didn't cause slavery and Jim Crow and the brutal suppression of the civil rights movement. Russia didn't cause the United States to destabilize large swathes of the world in the name of empire. Russia didn't cause us to warp our economic system to be so exploitative as to risk total collapse.
|
|
#
?
Oct 4, 2019 18:40
|
|
|
mod sassinator posted:Well that's great information to know if you get a time machine and can reform society 50+ years ago. I like to live in the present where we can change things and stopping the misinformation, propaganda and bullshit seems like a good place to start. jesus loving christ how can you combine adbusters smugness and boring rear end MSNBC red scare poo poo in one terrible posting gimmick
|
|
#
?
Oct 4, 2019 18:40
|
|
|
Mahoning posted:Your post placed the blame for the divisions in America on the Russians. The divisions have been there since before Russia was a country, as has been pointed out already. Don’t move the goalposts. No, I said Russia exploited the division and used social media to amplify them into a violent rage. I don't even get where you're going with this either--so like ok, Russia didn't create the divisions... but so what? If they're abusing them we sure as hell should stop them from doing that. Ignoring it or trying to find some great insight into an original cause does nothing.
|
|
#
?
Oct 4, 2019 18:40
|
|
|
mod sassinator posted:Well that's great information to know if you get a time machine and can reform society 50+ years ago. I like to live in the present where we can change things and stopping the misinformation, propaganda and bullshit seems like a good place to start. if russia wasn't interfering what would change? would the blue lives matter facebook groups all disappear? would fox news or all the randos writing absolute bullshit backed by billionaires suddenly go away? russian's pissing in the ocean at this point.
|
|
#
?
Oct 4, 2019 18:40
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/rebeccaballhaus/status/1180174953532002304quote:President Trump denied that he had linked military aid to Ukraine with a commitment by Kyiv to investigate the 2016 presidential elections when pressed on the matter by a Republican senator in August, according to the lawmaker.
|
|
#
?
Oct 4, 2019 18:40
|
|
|
Prester Jane posted:I thought negging was against the rules.... Goons saying “Bernie is the compromise candidate” while going for that kino. Establish value by RTing Chapo and remember Christman and Menaker are a two-set. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
|
|
#
?
Oct 4, 2019 18:40
|
|
|
Brony Car posted:Rubio’s ability to hold public office is another sign that Florida is a horrible place. Yeah. I'd have taken 2016 a lot better if he had gotten dropkicked after slinking back from his utter failure in the primaries. But Florida is Chudsville Retirement Center.
|
|
#
?
Oct 4, 2019 18:41
|
|
|
yronic heroism posted:Goons saying “Bernie is the compromise candidate” while going for that kino. Establish value by RTing Chapo and remember Christman and Menaker are a two-set. What the gently caress, is this English?
|
|
#
?
Oct 4, 2019 18:42
|
|
|
Listen guys, unless the president says "simon says" before his crimes they're not real. I mean how else are you going to tell the bluster from the crime here?
|
|
#
?
Oct 4, 2019 18:42
|
|
|
Majorian posted:But that's not what your argument was at the beginning of this discussion. Your argument was that the divisions we see in the U.S. today did not come about due to internal issues with our political system, but rather, were caused by Russian interference. Sold. Essentially avoid anything that engages a lizard brain response.
|
|
#
?
Oct 4, 2019 18:42
|
|
|
skylined! posted:Weird stance dude. Russia didn't operate Cambridge Analytica, which can almost certainly be said to be responsible for the 70k swing votes that pushed trump over the line in a few states. Cambridge analytica was a drop in the bucket. The IRA had 10 million fraudulent tweets alone (https://www.politico.com/story/2019/06/05/study-russia-cybersecurity-twitter-1353543). We're just now starting to discover how vast and deep these networks were, and how many more are still operating.
|
|
#
?
Oct 4, 2019 18:42
|
|
|
Groovelord Neato posted:if russia wasn't interfering what would change?
|
|
#
?
Oct 4, 2019 18:43
|
|
|
Oh, well, if he denied it using profanity he's clearly innocent. Why do we need all these judges and lawyers and stuff?
|
|
#
?
Oct 4, 2019 18:43
|
|
|
ewiley posted:Listen guys, unless the president says "simon says" before his crimes they're not real. I mean how else are you going to tell the bluster from the crime here? I'm honestly shocked Ron Johnson said this, on the record, in an interview OAquinas posted:Oh, well, if he denied it using profanity he's clearly innocent. I think the point is that a prominent Senate republican is explaining on the record how Trump lied to him.
|
|
#
?
Oct 4, 2019 18:43
|
|
|
mod sassinator posted:No, I said Russia exploited the division and used social media to amplify them into a violent rage. If you could flip a switch tomorrow that stop 100% of Russia's interference, the only thing you would accomplish is slowing down the pace of decay. If we address the underlying problems that Russia is exploiting, then rush Russia will have nothing to exploit. Basically Russia didn't start the fire, it was always burning. (Fake edit: LOL that Russia being a massive manipulator on social media is something I was getting mocked for suggesting three years ago, and now it's just accepted wisdom.)
|
|
#
?
Oct 4, 2019 18:44
|
|
|
like, this is a surprising act of defiance to not keep completely silent about this which every republican must want him to doquote:Mr. Johnson said he learned of the potential arrangement involving military aid through a phone call with Mr. Sondland that occurred the day before Mr. Johnson spoke to Mr. Trump. Under the arrangement, Mr. Johnson said Mr. Sondland told him, Ukraine would appoint a strong prosecutor general and move to “get to the bottom of what happened in 2016—if President Trump has that confidence, then he’ll release the military spending,” recounted Mr. Johnson.
|
|
#
?
Oct 4, 2019 18:45
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 5, 2024 20:55 |
|
|
imo the main roots of America's problems are: -pee pee doo doo the Constitution is a deeply flawed document but it's central to our civic religion -the Civil War and legacy of slavery was never really resolved, Reconstruction and the Civil Rights Movement didn't go far enough and we're still fundamentally a white supremacist society -unrestrained power of capital both economically and politically, labor power got mostly squashed -imperial hubris, we've been top dog for the last 70+ years and refuse to critically examine our foreign policy. jingoism rules, human rights drool Yeah Russia is loving with us but just lol if you somehow think they should get more than a tiny sliver of blame for our trainwreck society
|
|
#
?
Oct 4, 2019 18:45
|
|