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It was more blaming the idea of 'if not most profit then bad' than specifically shareholders, but those people are always saying that so the blame is easy to just pin on them. It certainly is NOT the consumers to blame in the 'wow we made the care you wanted how come you didnt buy it????' excuse that gets flown around for why Pontiac died or the internet hates the 86 twins.
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Oct 4, 2019 06:02
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I will always blame internet car forum dipshits for the Chevrolet SS (or rather, what happened to it.)
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Oct 4, 2019 16:59
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Frond posted:I will always blame internet car forum dipshits for the Chevrolet SS (or rather, what happened to it.)
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Oct 4, 2019 17:09
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Frond posted:I will always blame internet car forum dipshits for the Chevrolet SS (or rather, what happened to it.) Exactly what are internet car dipshits responsible for with the SS? It was a limited production vehicle on a platform that was being discontinued that got zero advertising. Yet they still sold them, and as always, the cars with manuals are holding their value incredibly well on the used market.
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Oct 4, 2019 17:18
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fknlo posted:Exactly what are internet car dipshits responsible for with the SS? It was a limited production vehicle on a platform that was being discontinued that got zero advertising. Yet they still sold them, and as always, the cars with manuals are holding their value incredibly well on the used market. And you can personally thank Bob Lutz for the Holden-based GTO/SS making it to the States at all.
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Oct 4, 2019 17:33
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I always wonder when people rail against shareholders are they unaware that if they have a 401K, they are the shareholders? The bourgeoisie is coming from inside the thread.  Also the BRZ is a nice car and I want one. In blue with the little wing. I want to keep it bone stock and it'll be a unicorn in a few years like unmolested 240s are. The controls on it are a little bit lighter and 'playskool' compared to my old NC1, but the seating position was absolute perfection. I kinda daily drive an NA with a hardtop, so 200hp in something similar would feel fast as gently caress to me.
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Oct 4, 2019 17:59
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BloodBag posted:I always wonder when people rail against shareholders are they unaware that if they have a 401K, they are the shareholders? The bourgeoisie is coming from inside the thread. 
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Oct 4, 2019 18:40
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Frond posted:I will always blame internet car forum dipshits for the Chevrolet SS (or rather, what happened to it.) I don't know what they did specifically to the SS, but internet car forum dipshits are loving annoying. Mostly cause they're all broke as gently caress and want cars that 99% of the rest of the population doesn't want. Even when those cars get made their broke asses can't afford to buy them new. They want them 5 or 6 years old after someone else ate 60% of the MSRP in depreciation. Someone has to buy the drat things new for them to trickle down to what they can afford. Years of posts about Audi not bringing the RS4 or RS6 Avant to the US. Audi is finally going to bring the RS6 Avant here. 0% of internet car forum dipshits can afford to buy one new. They'll continue to complain when Audi stops selling it due to lack of sales though. Years of "Why doesn't someone make a 400HP RWD 4 door sedan with a manual? I'd buy that in a second" Chevy brings the SS here, they barely sell. "No one makes wagons anymore" Buick releases the TourX - hardly anyone buys one. No idea how the VW wagons sell. "Why don't more cars come with a manual transmission?" - Because the manual transmission take rate is sub 2% in the US. Googling shows even "enthusiast" cars like the 86 is only 33%. The Miata is probably highest somewhere between 50 and 75%.
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Oct 4, 2019 18:44
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skipdogg posted:
The 86 may only have a 33% take rate, but the BRZ has a 78% manual take rate. It really just goes to show you how the brands are shopped. The WRX may actually be the highest take rate in the US as 90% of the cars sold were manuals. VW does pretty good with the GTI/R at 44%.
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Oct 4, 2019 18:50
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Things people ask for: options Things we get: halo priced unicorns Yeah its not a loving wonder here guys
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Oct 4, 2019 19:05
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bull3964 posted:The 86 may only have a 33% take rate, but the BRZ has a 78% manual take rate. It really just goes to show you how the brands are shopped. Good info. I didn't realize the WRX take rate was that high. Makes sense though. Personally I'm glad there are still a few options out there for folks. I drove stick most of my life, but once autos got to be as good as they are and I got older... not interested in having one in a daily driver. I'd totally still buy a manual for a dedicated fun car though. I'm also old enough that I'm going to make my kids learn how to drive stick because dammit my parents made me, and they're gonna learn too.
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Oct 4, 2019 19:06
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bull3964 posted:The 86 may only have a 33% take rate, but the BRZ has a 78% manual take rate. It really just goes to show you how the brands are shopped. However, don't forget the sales numbers. Looking at absolute figures, toyota sells about twice as many 86s as subaru sells BRZs. So as far as the number of cars that are out there in the manual, they are closer in total terms.
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Oct 4, 2019 19:10
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Russian Bear posted:However, don't forget the sales numbers. Looking at absolute figures, toyota sells about twice as many 86s as subaru sells BRZs. So as far as the number of cars that are out there in the manual, they are closer in total terms. I mean, yeah, sales totals matter, but the percentage for each badge also matters. The high take rate at Subaru means Subaru is NOT going to be on board with killing the manual for the successor since it would pretty much send all the sales to Toyota.
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Oct 4, 2019 19:24
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There's no way they would kill the manual option on either BRZ or 86, unless they had some trick DCT or fast shifting ZF unit to substitute in. R..right?
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Oct 4, 2019 19:28
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Considering that Toyota has been comparing it to the Supra and we know the Supra doesn't have a manual, I would say nothing is certain.
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Oct 4, 2019 19:34
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Feel lucky there's ANY new manual cars in the US
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Oct 4, 2019 19:38
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Proud Christian Mom posted:Things people ask for: options Calling bullshit on this one. Genesis G70 has a stick available. Starts under 40K. Less than 4% take rate. Less than 5% of people get the stick in a Tacoma. Chevy can't even find someone to build them a manual transmission for the C8, not enough people would buy it to make it worth building. You can get a Corolla hatch with a stick. Honda offers multiple cars with a stick as well. Civic LX, Accord Sport. Very few people are buying manual transmission cars, and very few dealers even bother to order them anymore. There are options out there. Not many, but they exist.
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Oct 4, 2019 19:45
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I bought a manual car two weeks ago and I can't stop blipping the throttle and double clutching and shifting for no particular reason. Please, someone else buy some manuals so I can buy another when this car is old. The Tour X looks really cool in person, zero available at my local dealers. Did they all sell out, or did they not get stock? I'm guessing the latter.
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Oct 4, 2019 19:57
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skipdogg posted:Calling bullshit on this one. Genesis G70 has a stick available. Starts under 40K. Less than 4% take rate. Less than 5% of people get the stick in a Tacoma. Chevy can't even find someone to build them a manual transmission for the C8, not enough people would buy it to make it worth building. You can get a Corolla hatch with a stick. Honda offers multiple cars with a stick as well. Civic LX, Accord Sport. Agreed. I like the manual in my Focus RS, but I'll probably replace it with something with a dual clutch eventually.
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Oct 4, 2019 20:01
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I've always wondered about take rates. In the US isn't it more about whether the dealer orders it than whether a consumer will buy it?
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Oct 4, 2019 20:04
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shockingly dealers aren't in the business of ordering poo poo that gathers dust on a corner of their lot edit: what i am saying is: it is absolutely consumer preference driven
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Oct 4, 2019 20:05
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I wonder why manuals are so much more prevalent in Europe, last time my buddy went over there he bitched that he had a hard time finding an automatic rental.
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Oct 4, 2019 20:16
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Car culture from the 50s and 60s when automatics started to come out that set us on divergent paths. Americans have always been more about driving-on-a-cloud luxury.
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Oct 4, 2019 20:22
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Isn't it partially that Euros still have a bunch of <100hp cars and those are a nightmare to drive if they shift themselves into high gears?
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Oct 4, 2019 20:25
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Everyone was broke after the war and gas was expensive due to taxes, so most European cars were tiny econoboxes with zero power which meant you couldn't just stick a single-speed Dynaflow and call it a day. This was the family car in the 60s, all of 800kg and 60hp on a good day. Cost and fuel economy was important, not to mention that it simply didn't have the power to work acceptably with an automatic. Even now small cars with 1l engines feel livelier with manuals. Real reason: Europeans are just superior drivers and Americans are fat and lazy and need to keep the right hand free for hamberders and coke
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Oct 4, 2019 20:35
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KillHour posted:Car culture from the 50s and 60s when automatics started to come out that set us on divergent paths. Then explain French cars and also the revulsion they inspire in Americans
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Oct 4, 2019 20:39
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DonkeyHotay posted:Then explain French cars and also the revulsion they inspire in Americans France makes cars? 
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Oct 4, 2019 21:11
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mobby_6kl posted:single-speed Dynaflow This is such a 50s-60s American idea "uhhhhh how about to increase the smoothness of the driving experience we have an automatic that doesn't shift gears but just like slips all the way from 0-70?" absolutely obscene
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Oct 4, 2019 21:40
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skipdogg posted:Calling bullshit on this one. Genesis G70 has a stick available. Starts under 40K. Less than 4% take rate. Less than 5% of people get the stick in a Tacoma. Chevy can't even find someone to build them a manual transmission for the C8, not enough people would buy it to make it worth building. You can get a Corolla hatch with a stick. Honda offers multiple cars with a stick as well. Civic LX, Accord Sport. You're forgetting that the manual in the G70 is a manual only in the 252 HP 4 cylinder, not the v6, and still costs $36k. It's bad value proposition when you could get a GTI with similar specs for less, or pay a little more for an STI or a Type-R with 300 HP.
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Oct 4, 2019 21:53
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Just. Drive. Old. Cars. Advice for life
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Oct 4, 2019 22:19
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KakerMix posted:Just. Drive. Old. Cars. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_r5UJrxcck I sure would like a steering wheel implanted in my brain yessir.
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Oct 4, 2019 22:32
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Super Soaker Party! posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_r5UJrxcck Just don't crash???
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Oct 5, 2019 00:47
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Applebees Appetizer posted:I wonder why manuals are so much more prevalent in Europe, last time my buddy went over there he bitched that he had a hard time finding an automatic rental. This is very rapidly changing - autos are becoming the norm even in Europe.
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Oct 5, 2019 00:59
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KakerMix posted:Just don't crash??? That's what I used to think until a drunk idiot slammed into me, sent me into La La land then to the Emergency Room If I was in an older car I'd be dead or seriously injured.
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Oct 5, 2019 01:36
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bull3964 posted:The 86 may only have a 33% take rate, but the BRZ has a 78% manual take rate. It really just goes to show you how the brands are shopped. The Golf R is ironically way better with flappy paddles and only two pedals.
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Oct 5, 2019 02:24
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Proud Christian Mom posted:Things people ask for: options In Europe, people are used to ordering a car from the factory through a dealer, then waiting for it to be built. In the US, people want to go to a dealership and drive away with a new car then and there. So the dealer stocks lots of inventory and it’s all specced in advance according to what they think will sell.
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Oct 5, 2019 02:27
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drgitlin posted:In Europe, people are used to ordering a car from the factory through a dealer, then waiting for it to be built. Predictably, most Americans are boring people who are more worried about their car's resale value or upsetting the neighbors/boss/HOA president with some obscene color choice, so they stick with various shades of silver, white and black. Nice, safe colors that make the automotive environment all the more monotonous.
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Oct 5, 2019 02:45
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drgitlin posted:The Golf R is ironically way better with flappy paddles and only two pedals. This kind of thing always seems weird to me. It's basically a given at this point that the automatic is better. The problem is that most people who are looking for for manual transmissions nowadays are specifically looking for a manual transmission, so better or worse is kind of irrelevant unless it's so bad that you just avoid that car altogether. I barely drive 3000 miles a year nowadays, and I know if I had to do it in an automatic I'd probably just finally figure out a way to move somewhere that I could make that 0 miles instead.
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Oct 5, 2019 03:34
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Paradoxish posted:This kind of thing always seems weird to me. It's basically a given at this point that the automatic is better. The problem is that most people who are looking for for manual transmissions nowadays are specifically looking for a manual transmission, so better or worse is kind of irrelevant unless it's so bad that you just avoid that car altogether. I barely drive 3000 miles a year nowadays, and I know if I had to do it in an automatic I'd probably just finally figure out a way to move somewhere that I could make that 0 miles instead. Ayup. Basically, like I said before, if I was going to buy an automatic I would have just bought a Stinger GT instead
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Oct 5, 2019 03:47
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I was screwing around with the fake shifting in that Kia Soul rental and it was kinda fun, I can see how it would be engaging in a good DCT with paddles and a car that's meant to be driven.
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Oct 5, 2019 03:49
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