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Yeah, or that, we could One Weird Trick our way out of having to give a drat about the rurals by just remaking our government from the ground up. e: wolf tax https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x5zFnzwwveg
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Oct 5, 2019 14:41
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Mooseontheloose posted:I live in Massachusetts and i am seeing this debate play out in a community near Boston. The town needs new elementary schools and there is a contingent of people who refuse to vote for the project for the following reasons: This is the exact same thing playing out in my town in CT with the exact same arguments. Only additions to the list are the vehement protests against the sidewalks and apartments we built. These are also awful because they ruin the rural character of our ever so rustic cul-de-sacs.
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Oct 5, 2019 14:45
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https://twitter.com/AOC/status/1180476191951802369 https://twitter.com/AOC/status/1180476845038428160
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Oct 5, 2019 14:48
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There's also the "Baptists do not recognize each other in the liquor store" effect. They will metaphorically pick up their check one day then go to the town hall to scream about the people who get checks the next. It doesn't help that the "stoic rugged individualism" narrative conservative media pushes it fundamentally incompatible with living. Even in the most rural of areas you will need the help of your neighbors, but everyone has been brainwashed into thinking that's a shameful thing.
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Oct 5, 2019 14:52
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Paradoxish posted:Nothing we post here matters so don't take this too harshly, but I really don't like using the right's language against them like this. Poor states should receive more federal funding and rich states should pay out more. That's good and proper. It's super common for people to frame this divide using the right's terminology ("welfare queens" or "freeloaders") and doing so implies that conservative arguments are correct on some level. It's a bad look and it also means that we're always fighting on their turf. Koalas March posted:I agree with all of this but especially not trying to repurpose terms like welfare queen which are inherently racist dog whistles. You're completely right, I've edited it out. On the larger point of from-each-according-to-their ability: it's a great ideal, but several decades of investing a substantial fraction of the national GDP into these places hasn't done much to slow the decline. There are plenty of places that have a need, and as Kavros points out many of them have shown a lot more progress for the investment. The ideal would be to allocate federal funding with a lot of control attached, but as the Obamacare subsidies illustrate the response is simply 'we don't want it!'. coffeetable fucked around with this message at 14:57 on Oct 5, 2019 |
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Oct 5, 2019 14:55
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I don't get it man, why don't Trump, Giuliani and Graham shut up just for like one day. They're kind of the 3 you can always count on to have terrible loving opinions and excuses for just about everything under the sun and in the news that day. I mean there's plenty of other high profile shitlord Trump people like Pompeo, Barr and Stephen Miller but they aren't in the news just absolutely constantly saying mind blowingly stupid and petty poo poo in the middle of yet another scandal situation. What is it with those 3 in particular? Even Dan Crenshaw who just loves to bleat off about the usual Trump Good/Dems Bad talking points hasn't weighed in much that I've been aware of. I don't even think it's necessarily this threads slight bias for posting right wing hot takes fresh from twitter and laughing at them......Trump, Giuliani and Graham in particular really just do not shut up ever in giving their unsolicited opinions. They all remind me so incredibly much of your standard internet trolls general behavior patterns it's sad. As in the kind of waste of life that spends literally every waking minute shitposting in favored haunts and going out of their way to lie, slander and just make a shitshow of every situation through sheer volume and awfulness of their "input". Kale fucked around with this message at 15:02 on Oct 5, 2019 |
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Oct 5, 2019 14:56
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Data Graham posted:In all the response to that article the one thing I'm not hearing is anyone addressing the permeating fallacy of "government should be run like a business", which seems like the underlying problem it's illustrating. It has been said that we need to explain this better for 20 or 30 years now if not much much longer. You could go all the way back to FDR really. I'm related to these people, I think we all are. It's pride it's ignorance it's somehow the feeling that they are actually smarter than everyone else all evidence to the contrary. They say things like government should be run like a business but have no real idea of how a healthy long-term business is run. Especially in this day and age of quarterly reports and businesses that are not expected to outlast the original employees why would you want to run a country like that? come to think of it that's exactly how they want to run the country. they want to run it for maximum financial withdraw for them, gently caress everybody else. I'm getting more and more comfortable with the idea of the United States has no longer being a monolith.
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Oct 5, 2019 14:58
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Kale posted:I don't get it man, why don't Trump, Giuliani and Graham shut up just for like one day. They're kind of the 3 you can always count on to have terrible loving opinions and excuses for just about everything under the sun and in the news that day. I mean there's plenty of other high profile shitlord Trump people like Pompeo, Barr and Stephen Miller but they aren't in the news just absolutely constantly saying mind blowingly stupid and petty poo poo in the middle of yet another scandal situation. What is it with those 3 in particular? Even Dan Crenshaw who just loves to bleat off about the usual Trump Good/Dems Bad talking points hasn't weighed in much that I've been aware of. In a way we’re fortunate that they don’t shut up because it only hurts them.
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Oct 5, 2019 15:00
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https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1180482408522629120
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Oct 5, 2019 15:01
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coffeetable posted:On the larger point of from-each-according-to-their ability: it's a good ideal, but several decades of investing a substantial fraction of the national GDP into these places hasn't done much to slow the decline. There are plenty of places that have a need, and as Kavros points out many of them have shown a lot more progress for the investment. The ideal would be to allocate federal funding with a lot of control attached, but as the Obamacare subsidies illustrate the response is simply 'we don't want it!'. Yeah. I would highly recommend not settling on a "gently caress these rural places, why should we care about them" narrative. States which have become pseudo-permanently freed of conservative control through demographic changes and the age cohort instability of the GOP's voterbase have rural communities which are doing OK or even great. Also, throughout the country, rural communities often are representations of hispanic and black enclaves that certainly don't buy into Trumpism, but rather suffer for it due to the dynamics of the state governments that hold their futures hostage.
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Oct 5, 2019 15:01
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He’s right that literally no one thought he would release that transcript.
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Oct 5, 2019 15:02
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Kale posted:I don't get it man, why don't Trump, Giuliani and Graham shut up just for like one day. They're kind of the 3 you can always count on to have terrible loving opinions and excuses for just about everything under the sun and in the news that day. I mean there's plenty of other high profile shitlord Trump people like Pompeo, Barr and Stephen Miller but they aren't in the news just absolutely constantly saying mind blowingly stupid and petty poo poo in the middle of yet another scandal situation. What is it with those 3 in particular? Even Dan Crenshaw who just loves to bleat off about the usual Trump Good/Dems Bad talking points hasn't weighed in much that I've been aware of. I have a friend who has to have the last word on anything to 'argue' about. No matter how trivial it is, for example 'Its nice out', he would say 'its going to rain later'. He has to 'win' every time. He means nothing by most of it. Whatever this mental disorder is, Trump has it x1000000000, Rudy has it x500000, and Graham is prob being blackmailed into it.
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Oct 5, 2019 15:04
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https://twitter.com/JebBush/status/1180288964093206528Kale posted:I don't get it man, why don't Trump, Giuliani and Graham shut up just for like one day. Trump and Giuliani are narcissists. Graham has hitched himself to the Trump boat so he wants to be known as his number 1 defender, who will always stick by him no matter what.
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Oct 5, 2019 15:05
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bird cooch posted:It has been said that we need to explain this better for 20 or 30 years now if not much much longer. You could go all the way back to FDR really. I'm related to these people, I think we all are. It's pride it's ignorance it's somehow the feeling that they are actually smarter than everyone else all evidence to the contrary. They say things like government should be run like a business but have no real idea of how a healthy long-term business is run. Especially in this day and age of quarterly reports and businesses that are not expected to outlast the original employees why would you want to run a country like that? come to think of it that's exactly how they want to run the country. they want to run it for maximum financial withdraw for them, gently caress everybody else. I guess maybe every conservative poor person doesn't just see themselves as a temporarily embarrassed millionaire, but a temporarily embarrassed angel investor?
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Oct 5, 2019 15:08
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coffeetable posted:The ideal would be to allocate federal funding with a lot of control attached, but as the Obamacare subsidies illustrate the response is simply 'we don't want it!'. The saddest thing about this is they do want it. Kentucky's ACA exchange was the most successful in the nation. They called it Kynect, it was loving great, worked like a charm. Matt Bevin ran for governor AGAINST Obamacare. And the same people on kynect ate it up. I've posted this before; it's an oped about an NPR article where someone goes to Clay county, the poorest county in kentucky, for whome kynect gave healthcare to people for the first time in their lives, and who voted overwhelmingly to have it taken away. https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/news/a50874/clay-county-kentucky-healthcare-trump/ The NPR link is in there if you want to read the whole thing. quote:In Clay County where Lockaby lives, 38 percent of the population live in poverty. A fifth of the residents are disabled. Life expectancy is eight years below the nation's average. that was another failure of the Obama administration; he didn't sell it once it was said and done, and if he did it didn't get through. Obviously fox news isn't going to show a presidential hospital visit in rural kentucky.
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Oct 5, 2019 15:10
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happyhippy posted:I have a friend who has to have the last word on anything to 'argue' about. No matter how trivial it is, for example 'Its nice out', he would say 'its going to rain later'. It's all loosely congealed around a pathological need for narcissistic supply, which I think exists in people in varieties that extend well beyond if someone reaches the threshold for clinical narcissism. I think there's a lot of comorbidity with other personality disorders, like borderline or oppositional defiant. Someone like Trump or Giuliani is a toxic stew of those Probably-Clinical-Personality-Disorders which were rigidly ingrained by a torturous upbringing by cruel parents that probably always made them feel insufficient and degraded them constantly and expected unrealistic perfection from an early age, and intensified and made permanent by ridiculous privilege and the lack of accountability to one's actions that it represents. It doesn't even need a label or an official diagnosis (though trump assuredly has one). It's just rich white people born into immense cruelty and the opportunity to abuse power heedlessly, until the heedless abuse of power defines their actions.
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Oct 5, 2019 15:12
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Ague Proof posted:https://twitter.com/JebBush/status/1180288964093206528 I can't wait to hear about the Kompromat that turned Lindsey at the golf outing with Dear Leader. And the story of the secret letter that Rand Paul delivered to Moscow from Dear Leader.
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Oct 5, 2019 15:12
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Kavros posted:Yeah. We tried this. My wife and I can both work remotely, so we bought into a quiet woods town in Washington. It was all so quiet and I D Link ordering a national park when we were health shopping but we were quickly shown that we were going to The outsiders forever after living there for more than a year. All it took for our neighbors to spoil on us was finding out what we did for a living. And that we moved from the big city. I grew up in the sticks, it didn't used to be like this. The first year in that house we delivered holiday fudge and cookies by hand to every house in our little neighborhood. By spring we built a six foot privacy fence on the sides of our property that didn't face the woods and we're pretending that our town didn't exist in doing all of our shopping outside. By the following year we left. It was miserable people surrounded in misery of their own making. Our town was a gateway to one of the largest national parks in the United States and all spring summer and fall it was filled with people headed into the parks and coming back out with the locals hated them and instead of building an industry around the park they all complained about how they weren't allowed to log it and how it was a waste for these people to be able to come out and enjoy nature, but if you went to the local hangout areas it was just filled with shotgun shells and beer cans national Park list very clean did you the population that came out to enjoy it following the rules and caring. Coming out to this park was the entire reason why we decided to settle out there. Shifty Pony posted:There's also the "Baptists do not recognize each other in the liquor store" effect. They will metaphorically pick up their check one day then go to the town hall to scream about the people who get checks the next. It is so much this. So much hypocrisy. I think that if all government assistance to everyone business or private was made public that it would really changed the dynamic. Data Graham posted:I guess maybe every conservative poor person doesn't just see themselves as a temporarily embarrassed millionaire, but a temporarily embarrassed angel investor? More like a junk product on Kickstarter that's never going to get made or a startup with a product that is sold purely on hype hoping to get bought out before they actually have to do anything.
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Oct 5, 2019 15:13
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:In a way we’re fortunate that they don’t shut up because it only hurts them. Yeah I know it right now it's kind of good for the general public that they keep just bleating out every destructive and petty inner thought, but for the better part of this administration it's been pretty exhausting. Especially since the Dems took the house and they probably can't get any of the awful GOP Policy poo poo passed anymore. Since there's no way they can ever try passing actual meaningful and popular legislation along with the Democratic house it's like Trump and Giuliani's job in particular has just been to stir up poo poo on twitter and cable news and just go from rally to TV appearance. Like that was at least 66% of their daily activity for the first couple years of the administration, now it's basically 100% . To put it another way, it's like because the Democrats just took one chamber of government they've gone full bore back into full on obstruction just poo poo on everything mode from the days of the Obama Administration. The GOP has also shed a lot of the people that can at the very least put on a public face for their lovely policy ideas and added a lot that can't even pretend to for a second so there's that too. Another example is even during a state visit and joint televised press conference with the President of Finland the White House can't even keep it's petty domestic squabble poo poo together for even a second. Like Trump really does think Niinistö gives a solitary gently caress about Adam Schiff and Nancy Pelosi? Or did he just not even give a remote gently caress that the guy was there with him? Neither would surprise me honetly. I don't even know what the gently caress he was even beginning to try to talk about at that press conference with his reference to Finland "getting rid of Shifty Schiff". Like it didn't make any loving sense whatsoever even in the most stretched of context's, so it's like he just really wanted to drop that line and couldn't be bothered to wait for a moment where it could have any real impact. Last thought in catching up on the weeks events, frankly the U.S News Media was doing all right at first but is now again doing a pretty of terrible job of covering all of this with the both sides poo poo creeping back into it's narratives. They really do so much to normalize Trump and the current GOP's behavior and act like the GOP has anything rational going for it in terms of policy or strategy when it's plainly evident they do not and would sooner dabble in conspiracy theory bullshit than just put some effort into their attempts at governing. There's something about being patronized in particular by the media that doesn't sit well with me and I can only hope doesn't sit well with a lot of American's. Like you just have to ask yourself really, when was the last time the GOP actually governed anywhere in America that wasn't a blatant power grab attempt and when was the last time the party just didn't blatantly loving lie and try to cast the Democrats as the guilty party in whatever they've hosed up even when it doesn't make sense? Sometime in the 80's? The mainstream news media in the U.S just refuses to call it out for the most part when it's blatantly obvious and there seems to be nothing to gain from giving the GOP any leeway anymore since they aren't interested in being a good faith political party with the post WWII global or even national interest in mind. Kale fucked around with this message at 15:39 on Oct 5, 2019 |
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Oct 5, 2019 15:23
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happyhippy posted:I have a friend who has to have the last word on anything to 'argue' about. No matter how trivial it is, for example 'Its nice out', he would say 'its going to rain later'. It's just funny too because after George W. Bush's disaster of a presidency I really didn't think the GOP had any further to fall, but holy poo poo have the last 4 years proven me dead loving wrong on that one. 5 years ago even I used to think Ted Cruz was the absolute worst the party had to offer, but nowadays I honestly don't know. I don't think I've ever seen a historic political party sell out so hard and so fast for no visible net gain and an apocalyptic torpedoing of any credibility it might have maintained into the 21st century. I keep thinking there's something I have to be missing here cause it just makes that little sense to me to go so full bore into all this poo poo and alienate so much of the global population. Maybe it really just was all about getting those judges set in place and literally nothing else. Anyway the U.S Government really is in the full blown institutional warfare phase that some of the more sober pundits feared I think. The GOP seems to think it just doesn't have to listen to anything the House does because it's controlled by the Democrats who are apparently their one true mortal enemy now, so it's like there might as well be two distinct Federal governments at the moment that are completely at odds with one another and a localized form of civil war that so far has thankfully remained bloodless. Kale fucked around with this message at 15:39 on Oct 5, 2019 |
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Oct 5, 2019 15:34
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Guess we're focusing on Mitt today https://twitter.com/RealPressSecBot/status/1180487069883174916 https://twitter.com/RealPressSecBot/status/1180491340049575936
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Oct 5, 2019 15:35
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“rear end”
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Oct 5, 2019 15:37
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It'll be fun to hear how the Utah Mormons square all that up
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Oct 5, 2019 15:38
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Yeah, you sure showed them, boy! Releasing that transcript showing that a crime was committed. I'm sure Pelosi and Schiff were just totally owned.
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Oct 5, 2019 15:38
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Is he back on this again? I thought the new strategy for Trump was “So what if I asked foreign governments for dirt on my political rivals? It was to investigate corruption and as long as I say the word “CORRUPTION” I can do whatever I want”. And then the republicans were starting to get in line with “His behavior is bad and troubling, but not impeachable”. But now he’s going back to insisting that his perfect phone call has been misrepresented despite the fact that when the call transcript and whistleblower report were released, a full day-and-a-half news cycle was ALL about how the report and transcript matched pretty much exactly.
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Oct 5, 2019 15:40
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It really is hard to tell whether it finally dawned on him that the substance of his Ukraine deal was what the issue was and then he forgot, or whether the tweets where he seemed to understand it were actually by someone else, or whether he's just trying to play every contradictory angle simultaneously. My god I want to see him on a witness stand.
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Oct 5, 2019 15:44
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This isnt about winning an election! But if Romney did what I was doing he would have won his election
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Oct 5, 2019 15:48
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Kale posted:Like Trump really does think Niinistö gives a solitary gently caress about Adam Schiff and Nancy Pelosi? Or did he just not even give a remote gently caress that the guy was there with him? Neither would surprise me honetly. He didn’t give a gently caress that the president of Finland was there. Trump also apparently “didn’t give a drat” about the missile North Korea launched a few days ago. Hopefully nothing major in international news will happen in the next several months while the entire US government is busy falling apart.
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Oct 5, 2019 15:48
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Involuntary Sparkle posted:Guess we're focusing on Mitt today lol this is why the strategy of saying "This was wrong, but it shouldn't be impeachable" is going to fail trump will immediately lash out at anyone who does it that gets his attention, because he's too furious and stupid to understand that they are trying to save him
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Oct 5, 2019 15:49
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Kale posted:I don't think I've ever seen a historic political party sell out so hard and so fast for no visible net gain and an apocalyptic torpedoing of any credibility it might have maintained into the 21st century. I keep thinking there's something I have to be missing here cause it just makes that little sense to me to go so full bore into all this poo poo and alienate so much of the global population. Honestly, I think it dovetails with the "In the Land of Self-Defeat" article posted a few pages ago. The policy of the Republican Party is absolutely obsessed with maximizing what feels best right this second, let their children's future, the nation's future, or even their own longer-term future be damned. They've been able to stay in power by exploiting a political system that heavily favors rural voters. For at least the last few election cycles they're able to ignore the long-term sustainability of their party by appealing even harder to the white, rural, Christian voters that enjoy disproportionate influence in Washington (and, of course, suppressing the votes of those who are not.) Eventually, it's going to crash down. It probably won't be the total dissolution of the party, but eventually they won't be able to win anymore by burning the candle at both ends and appealing only to a rapidly shrinking demographic intersection. And, frankly, what do these Republicans care if their party is in ruins and the oceans are boiling? They'll all be dead, and because they voted only for their short-term gains they won't have needed to suffer even mild inconvenience at the end.
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Oct 5, 2019 15:53
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Data Graham posted:It really is hard to tell whether it finally dawned on him that the substance of his Ukraine deal was what the issue was and then he forgot, or whether the tweets where he seemed to understand it were actually by someone else, or whether he's just trying to play every contradictory angle simultaneously. He's clearly going senile and has been for quite a while King of Foolians posted:He didn’t give a gently caress that the president of Finland was there. I wonder, if I were a (non-Russia) nation looking to start some poo poo with a country the US is friendly with, if this would be a unique opportunity to start said poo poo without needing to worry about US intervention, or if it'd be the absolute worst time and I'd serve as a welcome impeachment distraction Ate My Balls Redux fucked around with this message at 15:57 on Oct 5, 2019 |
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Oct 5, 2019 15:54
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Farchanter posted:Honestly, I think it dovetails with the "In the Land of Self-Defeat" article posted a few pages ago. The policy of the Republican Party is absolutely obsessed with maximizing what feels best right this second, let their children's future, the nation's future, or even their own longer-term future be damned. Especially if they can convince themselves, as the article illustrates, that they ARE acting in their long-term best interests, by tightening their belts and riding out the lean economic times smartly by not investing in unnecessary poo poo like libraries and schools. E: Ate My Balls Redux posted:He's clearly going senile and has been for quite a while I mean yes, but this isn't incompatible with any of my three scenarios
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Oct 5, 2019 15:55
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Ate My Balls Redux posted:He's clearly going senile and has been for quite a while I was thinking that he might just not even remember what his defense was supposed to be, so he just reverted to the "the call was polite and PERFECT!" stuff.
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Oct 5, 2019 15:57
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Oh boy 400 posts in uspolquote:band names I wish you could mute replies to posts like you can in twitter... Goddamn that's some primo self delusion.
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Oct 5, 2019 16:05
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No treaso I say, then we get down to bizness
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Oct 5, 2019 16:07
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I do in fact gotta give it to him that trump certainly caught all of us by surprise
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Oct 5, 2019 16:12
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A good strategy when you’re facing a possible impeachment is to publicly insult senators from your own party.
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Oct 5, 2019 16:15
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Kevyn posted:A good strategy when you’re facing a possible impeachment is to publicly insult senators from your own party. Keeping other gop senators afraid of following Romney’s example is the one vaguely intelligent thing he’s done.
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Oct 5, 2019 16:26
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Inferior Third Season posted:We should honestly just give rural counties exactly what they want - they can opt to pay and receive zero federal tax dollars. In exchange, no residents in the county can vote in federal elections, and their population should be deducted from the state population for census purposes. No representation without taxation. I can easily see large corporations exploiting this for all it's worth by turning all of these struggling places into glorified company towns. Simply pick a rural area with no federal support and promise to pick up the slack when it comes to roads, sewer, schools, etc., in exchange for everyone swearing fealty to the lovely multinational sweatshop forever.
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Oct 5, 2019 16:38
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Kevyn posted:A good strategy when you’re facing a possible impeachment is to publicly insult senators from your own party. Republican senators are concerned at this development
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Oct 5, 2019 16:40
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