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Android Blues posted:I get the former thing, and Sabretooth is absolutely very evil, but I still feel like these (generally heroic) characters should display at least a moment's compunction about running a kangaroo court and/or handing down prison sentences without fixed term. Instead it feels very brushed aside - they all agree instantly. Again, if you want to read an adventure comic where people debate morality for 12 issues while sitting around a table, that's your choice. But there's practical reasons why that's not done, just like there should have been practical reasons to have this play out via text pages. Android Blues posted:And the: "well, he's super evil, so it's okay" thing doesn't really figure up for Jean/Ororo/Kurt's motivation when they're sitting across the table from Shaw, Apocalypse, and Sinister, two of whom are probably worse than Sabretooth. I don't think it takes much to understand the difference between what Sabretooth is and what the other bad guys at the table are: They explained the presence and need for Shaw in the previous issue. whether you buy that rationale is a different issue, but it's literally there in the text. Apocalypse- again, in the text of this story- is held in line by the fact that Xavier is DOING WHAT HE ALWAYS WANTED. He's a mutant supramacist and that's exactly the side that Xavier finally comes down on. Again, in this issue's text, Xavier tells the world as such. Apocalypse no longer has a need to be "evil" (basically a hard-right, genocidal mutant fascist) because he can get to his goal via Krakoa. Sinister is less easily explained, but he is critical to the resurrection system and probably used that as leverage. It's not hard to explain every "bad" guy on the council in terms like these. Or even a majority of them that are on Krakoa. Sabretooth, though, doesn't have any particular mutant-advancement beliefs that justify his actions. He just likes killing. So even in a society protective of their own kind, the occasional psychopathic serial killer is probably looked down upon compared to the zealous terrorist with a cause.
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Oct 4, 2019 14:26
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Apocalypse isn't just a mutant supremacist, though. He's more hardcore than that: he wants to kill most mutants, too, until only the "strongest" remain. There's no place for mutants like Beak, or Glob, or Shark Girl in his vision of the future - they'd be exterminated along with the humans. He's not even particularly partisan to mutants (he's used non-mutants as his Horsemen before if they had some power or ability that made them particularly remarkable) - he just thinks mutants are the most viable genetic avenue for achieving his goals. Dude is like an ultra-eugenicist who only respects survival of the fittest. He doesn't want to extend a hand of fellowship to all mutants, like Magneto does: he wants to protect the cream of the crop, those with the most impressive mutations, and genocide the rest. His goals line up with Krakoa's very superficially as of yet, although it's certainly bad news that he's involved with its lawmaking process.
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Oct 4, 2019 14:37
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On that note, I’ve never seen Exodus in a cartoon or comic before. What’s his deal?
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Oct 4, 2019 14:38
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I hope they address the decimation sometime. I'd like those kids on the bus back. And Wallflower should be able to come back even without repowering, if Synch and Skin can.
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Oct 4, 2019 14:56
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Android Blues posted:Apocalypse isn't just a mutant supremacist, though. He's more hardcore than that: he wants to kill most mutants, too, until only the "strongest" remain. There's no place for mutants like Beak, or Glob, or Shark Girl in his vision of the future - they'd be exterminated along with the humans. He's not even particularly partisan to mutants (he's used non-mutants as his Horsemen before if they had some power or ability that made them particularly remarkable) - he just thinks mutants are the most viable genetic avenue for achieving his goals. If your ethos is entirely based on survival of the fittest, it gets broken by a bunch of immortal superpeople. They are, by default, the survivors and therefore the fittest.
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Oct 4, 2019 15:07
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Billzasilver posted:On that note, I’ve never seen Exodus in a cartoon or comic before. What’s his deal?
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Oct 4, 2019 15:18
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Billzasilver posted:On that note, I’ve never seen Exodus in a cartoon or comic before. What’s his deal? Edit: also he was listed as an omega level in telekinesis in HOX 1. But like said above in the 90s very vague power set. Could basically do anything. Fritzler fucked around with this message at 15:26 on Oct 4, 2019 |
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Oct 4, 2019 15:19
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For all we know Apocalypse got a vision of Moira's lives too, and knows his way didn't work either. Making sure someone knows with absolute certainty that their way of doing things leads to their death and the genocide of their people would be a pretty solid way to get someone to reevaluate their priorities.
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Oct 4, 2019 15:22
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Weird poo poo. Was Exodus part of the Asteroid M thing in the cartoon show? Or was that just Fabian Cortez still
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Oct 4, 2019 15:27
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Fritzler posted:This is from memory but Exodus is a French dude from crusade era. He was friends with Black Knight of that era. He was trapped in stasis. Magneto freed him and he became Magneto’s number two guy. That made his previous number two, Fabian Cortez mad. He led the acolytes when Xavier mind wiped Magneto. He is pretty powerful and fought off the Avengers and X-men of the time together singlehandedly, till he was beat (maybe on the Astral plane?) by Xavier. I think somehow current Black Knight helped Xavier. Exodus was peak 'super powerful 90's mutant' which meant your eyes glowed, you had power blasts and could mostly do whatever you wanted.
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Oct 4, 2019 15:31
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Billzasilver posted:On that note, I’ve never seen Exodus in a cartoon or comic before. What’s his deal? My unfairly irritating moment: having never seen a tv/etc adaptation of Exodus, I have no idea what he's supposed to sound like. French accent? But he's thousands of years old, isn't he? I still basically read everyone in their cartoon voices, and you're fuckin right that includes The Rocks Of The Eternal Shore himself. One more issue. And though I have no problem with this being basically an extended prologue to a bunch of other books (especially as X-Men is at least being written by the same person!) I am expecting at least one real good "holky gently caress" moment. Xavier's face, What Really Happened To Sabretooth, Something About Moira VI... I don't care. But I will be disappointed if nothing in the next issue makes me say "god drat" out loud while I read it. And on another note, I can't remember if this is the thread where I mentioned wanting a Stupid X-Men Webcomic with a rotating cast, but how good would a Cheers parody called Bar Sinister be.
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Oct 4, 2019 16:02
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Diet Poison posted:Cheers parody called Bar Sinister be. Where everyone knows your name (because you all have the same name because you're all clones of the same person)!
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Oct 4, 2019 16:25
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wielder posted:
I think the Avengers run, if you consider that the outcome is the end of Secret Wars, then it's incredibly optimistic. Everything is resurrected because selfish, egotistical men who believed they were more concerned with being better than everyone else and at each other's throats realized the need for sacrificing their self-importance. You know, letting go of old, stale ideals to make room for a younger, different generation and bigger, better, and possibly drastically different things and an infinite number of worlds where all sorts of things are possible.
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Oct 4, 2019 17:05
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Diet Poison posted:My unfairly irritating moment: having never seen a tv/etc adaptation of Exodus, I have no idea what he's supposed to sound like. French accent? But he's thousands of years old, isn't he? I still basically read everyone in their cartoon voices, and you're fuckin right that includes The Rocks Of The Eternal Shore himself.
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Oct 4, 2019 17:19
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danbanana posted:Where everyone knows your name (because you all have the same name because you're all clones of the same person)! Where everyone knows your DNA.
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Oct 4, 2019 17:27
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Fritzler posted:I want to see how much he hates Fantomex, Gambit and maybe Northstar. Just want to see a terrible conversation between all 4. I would love to see what Northstar is up to.
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Oct 4, 2019 18:01
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Open Marriage Night posted:Where everyone knows your DNA. What's even best is his Cheer's opening sequence was done over this Victorian artwork of a pub. Which is in keeping with Mr. Sinister's Victorian aesthetics. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rS0VQOHX7lM
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Oct 4, 2019 18:25
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Wave 2 of the X books is being announced Saturday, including Exiles with Sabertooth.
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Oct 4, 2019 19:02
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Cloks posted:Exiles with Sabertooth. Oh that's clever. Also, told ya' the depths of Krakoa wasn't a prison!
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Oct 4, 2019 19:13
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Fritzler posted:This is from memory but Exodus is a French dude from crusade era. He was friends with Black Knight of that era. He was trapped in stasis. Magneto freed him and he became Magneto’s number two guy. That made his previous number two, Fabian Cortez mad. He led the acolytes when Xavier mind wiped Magneto. He is pretty powerful and fought off the Avengers and X-men of the time together singlehandedly, till he was beat (maybe on the Astral plane?) by Xavier. I think somehow current Black Knight helped Xavier. He eventually got a little bit more defined. His only natural ability was a mass teleport with a very large range. At some point in the past Apocolypse got his hands on him and souped him up with celestial tech. That’s how Exodus got his extreme telepathy, TK and healing factor. ^^^^Its could be AoA Sabretooth who’s been a Exiles regular since the start.
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Oct 4, 2019 19:16
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Exile, by Exiles
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Oct 4, 2019 19:19
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Cloks posted:Wave 2 of the X books is being announced Saturday, including Exiles with Sabertooth. Oh, this is interesting.
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Oct 4, 2019 19:28
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My main concern about Wave 2 is that they might have too many ongoing titles, but realistically speaking...I am expecting a few of these to end up as 12 or 24 issue series, at most.Strange Poon posted:I think the Avengers run, if you consider that the outcome is the end of Secret Wars, then it's incredibly optimistic. Everything is resurrected because selfish, egotistical men who believed they were more concerned with being better than everyone else and at each other's throats realized the need for sacrificing their self-importance. You know, letting go of old, stale ideals to make room for a younger, different generation and bigger, better, and possibly drastically different things and an infinite number of worlds where all sorts of things are possible. Oh, sure. I can agree with that. I was mainly thinking about the extended period immediately before what you're describing, but this is valid as a take on the ultimate conclusion of the story.
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Oct 4, 2019 20:43
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What is the source of this Wave 2 info?
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Oct 4, 2019 22:28
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Marvel's official schedule has an X-Men panel advertising announcements.
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Oct 4, 2019 22:36
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Do you think Sabertooth can still hear the mutant orgy? I like to imagine he's hitting the proof of his not-prison with a broom yelling at those drat kids to keep it down.
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Oct 4, 2019 23:01
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Sabretooth: Krakoa's first incel.
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Oct 4, 2019 23:28
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danbanana posted:Sabretooth: Krakoa's first incel. Excel, please get it right.
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Oct 4, 2019 23:40
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Man I really enjoyed the latest issue. Very dense in a good way. I’m definitely excited for the upcoming regulars.
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Oct 4, 2019 23:42
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wielder posted:My main concern about Wave 2 is that they might have too many ongoing titles, but realistically speaking...I am expecting a few of these to end up as 12 or 24 issue series, at most. There's 6 announced so far, if wave 2 is another six books that'd put them at 12 total which, assuming 1 or 2 get canceled and/or are just mini series seems like a normal amount of X books for Marvel.
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Oct 5, 2019 00:36
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Exiles starring Sabretooth makes me think that it's going to be a book about mutants put into not-jail and it really is going to be a mental world rehabilitation program or something
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Oct 5, 2019 01:24
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Blockhouse posted:Exiles starring Sabretooth makes me think that it's going to be a book about mutants put into not-jail and it really is going to be a mental world rehabilitation program or something A sort of "Mutants In Crisis," if you will.
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Oct 5, 2019 03:15
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https://twitter.com/kierongillen/status/1180304268202594309?s=19
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Oct 5, 2019 03:49
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Android Blues posted:I dunno. The law itself is somewhat arbitrary. Jean's proposition is that it's a major crime to kill a human because humans can't be resurrected. Both Sabretooth and Wolverine killed humans while deployed against ORCHIS. Wolverine killed guiltier humans in a more dangerous situation, for sure, but there's nothing in Jean's proposition about the moral worth of each individual human or the moral justifiability of each killing. It's phrased like an absolute instead. The law was against murdering humans. And as Magneto said, the debate on whether it counts as murder if it's in defense of a nation wasn't one they were going to get into or solve that day and it wasn't relevant to what Sabretooth had done. Yes, they were stealing the data in order to find where they were building the Mother Mold, but from context clues Sabretooth didn't, by any stretch, have to kill those guards.
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Oct 5, 2019 17:19
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Even if Wolverine did commit a crime, he subsequently died and was rebooted as a version of himself who has no memory of committing that crime. This is a thing, now, I guess.
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Oct 5, 2019 17:35
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also Sabretooth didn't kill any random guards, he pissed off the F4
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Oct 5, 2019 17:37
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JayMax posted:Even if Wolverine did commit a crime, he subsequently died and was rebooted as a version of himself who has no memory of committing that crime. This is a thing, now, I guess. Sabretooth didn't die on the mission, same dude.
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Oct 5, 2019 17:38
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Dawn of X panel happening right now In case anyone had doubts they explicitly spelled out that House/Powers was intentionally focused on big picture set-up so that the Dawn of X books can zero in on individual characters also Hickman promised Apocalypse in a business suit
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Oct 5, 2019 22:21
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I want to say that I really appreciate the thoughtful criticism that people have shared here even if at least right now I'm enjoying this. I think a lot of good ideas have been raised.
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Oct 5, 2019 22:48
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Benjamin Percy is writing a solo Wolverime book
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Oct 5, 2019 23:12
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