UKMT Red October 2019: Lies, dem libs, and polling companies.

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > UKMT Red October 2019: Lies, dem libs, and polling companies.

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OwlFancier: Aug 22, 2013

But it doesn't have to be. What if there was a life philosophy that said you should act like a teenager all the time and that by doing so you would actually save the planet and human society and make your own life miles better, what if you could have all the good things and none of the bad.

# ? Oct 7, 2019 15:01

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# ? May 24, 2024 01:43

CGI Stardust: Nov 7, 2010; Brexit is but a door,
election time is but a window.

I'll be back

Gatts posted:

EDIT: what�s the benefit to the regular people of Britain to leave the EU? What was the goal and will it happen?

Depends who you mean by "regular people". Assuming we're talking about who's in favour of Brexit, there are a bunch of reactionaries with contradictory viewpoints in roughly the following categories

return to a bucolic, delightful Little England full of villages where the postman says hello and there aren't so many foreigners and everything was so much simpler in the old days blah blah blah. This won't happen, poo poo's global for the time being, hope you get used to it by the time we all drown or burn
realignment towards USA as opposed to the EU - a vision of a world in which Britain and America are top dogs and everyone else is lesser. This also won't happen, USA's too powerful to be anything other than a lapdog of it, and there's competition from EU, China, etc
Britain must go back to its glorious trading past when we were the kings of the land and queens of the sea! These people have missed that Britain's past is built largely on top of exploiting colonies through threat, there isn't really anywhere we could do that to these days and we don't have much of a navy, so again, won't happen. I know one of these people - he thinks that since Britain could compete with Napoleon in the past we shouldn't have any trouble now (???? he's a Tory party member and a landlord, which seems about right)
too many foreigners taking our housing and jobs. Good news - fewer foreigners from the EU! Bad news - the foreigners were doing useful work that no-one else wanted to do and were boosting the economy, also trade fuckery kills demand for British products so now there aren't jobs at all. Further bad news - likelihood of more immigration from commonwealth countries instead of the EU. Good work.
we've shorted the pound - winners here
we want Brexit to break the last remnants of Britain's social welfare state and go full Shock Doctrine disaster capitalism in the aftermath - winners here too
my small business wants to avoid EU regulations - winners, maybe, if there's still demand for their product once the economy goes recessionwards

Lastly, some were angry that the establishment was ignoring their problems, so Brexit was a protest vote - mission accomplished, I guess? They've got attention now, of a sort.

ed: the point here is that there isn't a "regular person" when it comes to Brexit voters, there was no actual goal - it was never clearly defined enough to be anything other than a magic wonderland where all your dreams come true

CGI Stardust fucked around with this message at 15:04 on Oct 7, 2019

# ? Oct 7, 2019 15:01

Gatts: Jan 2, 2001; Goodnight Moon; Nap Ghost

CGI Stardust posted:

Depends who you mean by "regular people". Assuming we're talking about who's in favour of Brexit, there are a bunch of reactionaries with contradictory viewpoints in roughly the following categories

return to a bucolic, delightful Little England full of villages where the postman says hello and there aren't so many foreigners and everything was so much simpler in the old days blah blah blah. This won't happen, poo poo's global for the time being, hope you get used to it by the time we all drown or burn

realignment towards USA as opposed to the EU - a vision of a world in which Britain and America are top dogs and everyone else is lesser. This also won't happen, USA's too powerful to be anything other than a lapdog of it, and there's competition from EU, China, etc

Britain must go back to its glorious trading past when we were the kings of the land and queens of the sea! These people have missed that Britain's past is built largely on top of exploiting colonies through threat, there isn't really anywhere we could do that to these days and we don't have much of a navy, so again, won't happen. I know one of these people - he thinks that since Britain could compete with Napoleon in the past we shouldn't have any trouble now (???? he's a Tory party member and a landlord, which seems about right)

too many foreigners taking our housing and jobs. Good news - fewer foreigners from the EU! Bad news - the foreigners were doing useful work that no-one else wanted to do and were boosting the economy, also trade fuckery kills demand for British products so now there aren't jobs at all. Further bad news - likelihood of more immigration from commonwealth countries instead of the EU. Good work.

we've shorted the pound - winners here

we want Brexit to break the last remnants of Britain's social welfare state and go full Shock Doctrine disaster capitalism in the aftermath - winners here too

my small business wants to avoid EU regulations - winners, maybe, if there's still demand for their product once the economy goes recessionwards

Lastly, some were angry that the establishment was ignoring their problems, so Brexit was a protest vote - mission accomplished, I guess? They've got attention now, of a sort.

ed: the point here is that there isn't a "regular person" when it comes to Brexit voters, there was no actual goal - it was never clearly defined enough to be anything other than a magic wonderland where all your dreams come true

Thank you.

# ? Oct 7, 2019 15:06

suck my woke dick: Oct 10, 2012; I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!

Put this cum-loving slave on ignore immediately!

OwlFancier posted:

But it doesn't have to be. What if there was a life philosophy that said you should act like a teenager all the time and that by doing so you would actually save the planet and human society and make your own life miles better, what if you could have all the good things and none of the bad.

* teenagers are uncivilised scum and must be destroyed

* people having fun and enjoying themselves is scandalous and must be banned

* in my teenage years i learned that you can't have all that you want. since that's a universal law applying to everything, leopards eating some people's faces is the best possible compromise position between the extremes of leopards eating all people's faces and leopards not eating people's faces

# ? Oct 7, 2019 15:06

OwlFancier: Aug 22, 2013

Do people actually learn moderation as teenagers, I don't believe that at all.

# ? Oct 7, 2019 15:08

Guavanaut: Nov 27, 2009; Looking At Them Tittys
1969 - 1998; Toilet Rascal

CGI Stardust posted:

ed: the point here is that there isn't a "regular person" when it comes to Brexit voters, there was no actual goal - it was never clearly defined enough to be anything other than a magic wonderland where all your dreams come true

There's also

the EU is massively pro-liberalization (which is true ignores that our own governments sold all our stuff)
the EU is pretty racist as an institution (which is true but lol if post-Brexit Tories are any better)
Britain has ignored the Commonwealth to bring in white migrants instead (again lol if post-Brexit Tories are any better)
the EU is becoming an empire and the last thing that we need is another one of those (also true but Tory brexit will make us a colony of somewhere instead)

Lexit was clearly never an option in a public slapfight between Cameron/Osborne and Johnson/Gove, but it only needed to sway <1% of people who voted and convince others to stay at home because it was a public Tory game of shite.

# ? Oct 7, 2019 15:09

ThomasPaine: Feb 4, 2009; We have no compassion and we ask no compassion from you. When our turn comes, we shall not make excuses for the terror.

Guavanaut posted:

Tankies in 'regressive fuckwits' shocker.

There really needed to be a hardline feminist take on the issue from day one. Like "hey did you notice the one thing that all the people implicated in the grooming had in common that the PC media won't let you talk about? they're men"

Unfortunately there's a high crossover between those people and TERFs (and Stalinist ML and TERFs too, what a party )

Getting into an online slapfight with some ML-Terf group on Facebook was easily one of the least enjoyable ways I've spent an evening over the last few years. They're loving obsessed with trans people. I just don't get why. Even if you subscribe to their dumb analysis why do you care so much about this issue that has zero impact on your life? Are there not more pressing issues? No, apparently. And they are absolutely convinced of their own Correctness. It's super weird.

They really, really don't like it when you ask them to consider why it might be that all of their citations on the evils of the trans menace lead back to the American religious right lol.

E: a bonus story, same sort of people (very radfem) are almost always extremely anti prostitution. I made (what I thought was) a fairly innocuous point on some thread about the evils of this industry, essentially saying 'middle class camgirls and high class escorts are in a very different position to trafficked street-corner hookers and that's an important thing to recognise in any analysis, because the latter have to be a priority'. I was then accused of being a big misogynistic woman hater (?) and quickly banned. Hilariously though my partner was still in the group and could read the thread, and they outright admitted that I was right but 'that was obvious and they had to make a performative example of me on account of my being a penis-haver', it was all extremely weird but whatever then I stopped arguing with online USSR larpers and started following Weetman instead

# ? Oct 7, 2019 15:10

baka kaba: Jul 19, 2003; PLEASE ASK ME, THE SELF-PROFESSED NO #1 PAUL CATTERMOLE FAN IN THE SOMETHING AWFUL S-CLUB 7 MEGATHREAD, TO NAME A SINGLE SONG BY HIS EXCELLENT NU-METAL SIDE PROJECT, SKUA, AND IF I CAN'T PLEASE TELL ME TO
EAT SHIT

Gatts posted:

EDIT: what�s the benefit to the regular people of Britain to leave the EU? What was the goal and will it happen?

MBGA

# ? Oct 7, 2019 15:11

stev: Jan 22, 2013; Please be excited.

Byron is shite. GBK is far better.

# ? Oct 7, 2019 15:12

suck my woke dick: Oct 10, 2012; I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!

Put this cum-loving slave on ignore immediately!

OwlFancier posted:

Do people actually learn moderation as teenagers, I don't believe that at all.

no they don't but their incompetent parents tried to badly impart moderation lessons on them and when they're trying to act serious disillusioned fourtysomethings will prefer to remember barely-articulated comments on moderation rather than how it was more fun to do random poo poo

# ? Oct 7, 2019 15:12

CGI Stardust: Nov 7, 2010; Brexit is but a door,
election time is but a window.

I'll be back

Guavanaut posted:

There's also

the EU is massively pro-liberalization (which is true ignores that our own governments sold all our stuff)

the EU is pretty racist as an institution (which is true but lol if post-Brexit Tories are any better)

Britain has ignored the Commonwealth to bring in white migrants instead (again lol if post-Brexit Tories are any better)

the EU is becoming an empire and the last thing that we need is another one of those (also true but Tory brexit will make us a colony of somewhere instead)

Lexit was clearly never an option in a public slapfight between Cameron/Osborne and Johnson/Gove, but it only needed to sway <1% of people who voted and convince others to stay at home because it was a public Tory game of shite.

Ah yeah, forgot about the anti-EU left and Lexit people, good catch! Don't know how big a percentage they were, I don't really remember them being present at all in The Discourse, except maybe one of the unions and Morning Star

# ? Oct 7, 2019 15:14

Strawman: Feb 9, 2008; Tortuga means turtle, and that's me. I take my time but I always win.

ThomasPaine posted:

Ah yes, just standing here creepily photographing a man I obsessively rant and lie about online and his wife having a cup of tea with a friend from behind a window while they're not interacting with me at all, to own the unhinged trolls

It does make me kinda sad that Oberman turned out to be this utter weirdo narcissist because I liked her in Toast of London and Friday Night Dinner and might have had a bit of a crush on her once lol

Toast of London, the series about self-aware people who are good at acting.

# ? Oct 7, 2019 15:14

OwlFancier: Aug 22, 2013

suck my woke dick posted:

no they don't but their incompetent parents tried to badly impart moderation lessons on them and when they're trying to act serious disillusioned fourtysomethings will prefer to remember barely-articulated comments on moderation rather than how it was more fun to do random poo poo

Is this the revisionism I've heard so much about?

# ? Oct 7, 2019 15:15

suck my woke dick: Oct 10, 2012; I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!

Put this cum-loving slave on ignore immediately!

OwlFancier posted:

Is this the revisionism I've heard so much about?

what if rose tinted glasses but your life is so disappointing you go back to the unpleasant parts of your memories because you think swallowing more bitter pills would have improved it (because the world is just and it's totally impossible that even if everyone tries really hard individually >90% of the population are doomed to disappointing lives under out-of-control capitalism)

suck my woke dick fucked around with this message at 15:19 on Oct 7, 2019

# ? Oct 7, 2019 15:17

Microplastics: Jul 6, 2007; It's what's for dinner.

Powerful bullshit headlines in the telegraph today

# ? Oct 7, 2019 15:24

Microplastics: Jul 6, 2007; It's what's for dinner.

I like "steep rise in over-65s taking antidepressants"

Boomers are such loving snowflakes I tell you what, back in my day we just got on with it, where's their blitz spirit

# ? Oct 7, 2019 15:25

Guavanaut: Nov 27, 2009; Looking At Them Tittys
1969 - 1998; Toilet Rascal

BBC won't give equal time to trans people and people who don't want them to exist.

# ? Oct 7, 2019 15:26

Rustybear: Nov 16, 2006; what the thunder said

OwlFancier posted:

I found the post in the lefttube thread relevant:

Which I guess boils down to "caring is actually cool and good and disappearing up your own analytical arsehole is not necessarily helpful."

This is a perfectly good take but it's nothing new for the 60s or any other era; "philosophers have hitherto only interpreted the world in various ways; the point is to change it."

# ? Oct 7, 2019 15:27

forkboy84: Jun 13, 2012; Corgis love bread. And Puro

Bobby Deluxe posted:

It's one thing saying Russian billionaires weren't the only factor, but come on. They may not have started the fire but they certainly threw a lot of money on the pyre.

They were a negligible factor in the grand scheme of things. They could have thrown all the money in the world at it but if we'd not had 3 decades plus of the right wing media howling about sovereignty and bendy bananas and underpowered vacuum cleaners and Johnny Foreigner coming over here & taking your jobs while living on benefits lazily doing nothing and "Up Yours Delors" and oh the undemocratic Brussels bureaucrats they'd have been pissing into the wind. The wealthy plutocrats who made Brexit happen were British first & foremost. First by causing massive alienation of the working class through 4 long, painful decades of neoliberalism that's seen well paying careers for the working class evaporate as industries were shuttered or "modernised", especially the white working class in areas completely left behind in the Midlands, the North, the South East & Wales. Which is to say most of England really outwith London, and a couple of the big cities in the north like Manchester & Leeds. Secondly by running the poisonous British press and in the case of most of the right wing press spread poisonous rhetoric about the EU, in the case of the left-liberal press of failing to challenge the neoliberal orthodoxy or even provide a platform to begin discussions about an alternative, instead just living down to their reputation as liberal elites cossetted away in London & completely out of touch with "real Britain" (never mind that the right wing press are no different in most respects when it comes to being London-centric & disconnected with the day-to-day experience of most people living in this cursed land) and possibly most damaging of all is the BBC giving a platform to these right wing demagogues like Johnson & Farage & generally doing a completely pissweak job of holding them accountable for spouting completely transparent lies.

Anyone focusing on anything other than neoliberalism as the overwhelmingly major source for the discontent that lead to the complete lack of faith in the political class that lead to Leave winning the referendum is an act of pure idiocy.

I'm not saying the perfidious Rus wasn't a factor I'm just saying that it comes so far down the list that there's no loving point being concerned about it, it's not exactly Operation Gladio.

# ? Oct 7, 2019 15:27

Junior G-man: Sep 15, 2004; Wrapped in a mystery, inside an enigma

Prue Leith's got a new agent or something (or maybe a cookbook to pitch?), she's been in the headlines for like three weeks now.

I mean, beyond the normal GBBO coverage.

# ? Oct 7, 2019 15:27

Red Oktober: May 24, 2006; wiggly eyes!

JeremoudCorbynejad posted:

Powerful bullshit headlines in the telegraph today

Devolve government to promote unity is a spicy fuckin� take for sure.

# ? Oct 7, 2019 15:28

OwlFancier: Aug 22, 2013

Rustybear posted:

This is a perfectly good take but it's nothing new for the 60s or any other era; "philosophers have hitherto only interpreted the world in various ways; the point is to change it."

Maybe so, I don't know enough about philosophy to comment, but I do find the description of the trends in political engagement compelling.

# ? Oct 7, 2019 15:28

Jrbg: May 20, 2014

JeremoudCorbynejad posted:

Powerful bullshit headlines in the telegraph today

At this point is the telegraph really anything more substantial than 'boris daily', like it may as well be written by him

# ? Oct 7, 2019 15:30

Purple Prince: Aug 20, 2011

OwlFancier posted:

The far right usually advocates for something akin to loving ego death and complete subsumation into a society, while the left varies between society should serve people to society and people should have a mutual relationship.

Dunno but I'm pretty up for being part of the Human Hive. Seems better than constant conflict and war which is all this free speech stuff is getting us.

# ? Oct 7, 2019 15:30

Junior G-man: Sep 15, 2004; Wrapped in a mystery, inside an enigma

Guavanaut posted:

BBC won't give equal time to trans people and people who don't want them to exist.

Humprys has just been on a right-wing-oval office tour ever since he left the Beeb.

# ? Oct 7, 2019 15:31

Noxville: Dec 7, 2003

Junior G-man posted:

Humprys has just been on a right-wing-oval office tour ever since he left the Beeb.

Are you sure that didnt start a few years before he left?

# ? Oct 7, 2019 15:31

OwlFancier: Aug 22, 2013

Purple Prince posted:

Dunno but I'm pretty up for being part of the Human Hive. Seems better than constant conflict and war which is all this free speech stuff is getting us.

Unfortunately the point of the society is conflict and war, you're just not allowed to have an opinion on it.

# ? Oct 7, 2019 15:31

Microplastics: Jul 6, 2007; It's what's for dinner.

J_RBG posted:

At this point is the telegraph really anything more substantial than 'boris daily', like it may as well be written by him

The Daily Johnson - in your box every morning

# ? Oct 7, 2019 15:34

Junior G-man: Sep 15, 2004; Wrapped in a mystery, inside an enigma

Noxville posted:

Are you sure that didnt start a few years before he left?

He probably did, it's just been more noticeable since he quit the BBC and is now free to take the mask completely off.

# ? Oct 7, 2019 15:35

Purple Prince: Aug 20, 2011

OwlFancier posted:

Unfortunately the point of the society is conflict and war, you're just not allowed to have an opinion on it.

Demand Fully Globalised Biomechanical Totalitarianism

# ? Oct 7, 2019 15:37

Guavanaut: Nov 27, 2009; Looking At Them Tittys
1969 - 1998; Toilet Rascal

Just got this email and remembered that Margaret Thatcher was a research chemist.

# ? Oct 7, 2019 15:47

RockyB: Mar 8, 2007; Dog Therapy: Shockingly Good

Steve2911 posted:

Byron is shite. GBK is far better.

Reminder: Taco Bell will win the restaurant wars. Anyone who doesn't like it and doesn't agree with :decorum:

will be forced underground to eat grilled rat.

Truly, demolition man is the vision of the future we deserve.

# ? Oct 7, 2019 15:49

Microplastics: Jul 6, 2007; It's what's for dinner.

Guavanaut posted:

Just got this email and remembered that Margaret Thatcher was a research chemist.

That sounds like the kind of email we get

E: please forward it to me, I'll see if we'll fund it

# ? Oct 7, 2019 16:01

xtothez: Jan 4, 2004; College Slice

Guavanaut posted:

Just got this email and remembered that Margaret Thatcher was a research chemist.

My Yorkshire wife still refuses to buy Mr Whippy ice cream because of that. Also because it's shite.

# ? Oct 7, 2019 16:05

Microplastics: Jul 6, 2007; It's what's for dinner.

xtothez posted:

My Yorkshire wife still refuses My Whippy ice cream because of that. Also because it's shite.

Is that what you call it

# ? Oct 7, 2019 16:06

CyberPingu: Sep 15, 2013; If you're not striving to improve, you'll end up going backwards.

xtothez posted:

My Yorkshire wife still refuses My Whippy ice cream because of that. Also because it's shite.

My Whippy Ice Cream is an odd term for your cum

efb

# ? Oct 7, 2019 16:06

Guavanaut: Nov 27, 2009; Looking At Them Tittys
1969 - 1998; Toilet Rascal

Rustybear posted:

This is a perfectly good take but it's nothing new for the 60s or any other era; "philosophers have hitherto only interpreted the world in various ways; the point is to change it."

It's not so much philosophers, philosophers gonna philosoph. It's how people are the products of their environment and material conditions and act on these based on the methods and analyses presented to them.

dead gay comedy forums posted:

If we could interrogate the concept, leftist thought as a whole may have a lot of difficulty accepting it but the evidence is there: the motivation, the volition, drive, the very animus of revolutionary thought was criticized, ridiculed and dismantled in the West but no substitution was made. The effects were not immediate, but for those born in the 60s and 70s, it would make a tremendous effect in the shaping of their ideological thought: the supports and anchors built from other decades were broken down and cast aside, without replacement. They would be particularly receptive to neoliberalism.

Like that leads directly into the "you can't change things, better just drop out" of the Gen-X slacker stereotype, which in turn leads to "caring about things isn't cool, if you're offended you lose" of the early 00s edgelord, which in turn leads to Nazis. Which I guess in turn leads to a resurgent left that does care, but I prefer the path with less Nazis.

*analyzes methods of analysis and falls into own navel*

# ? Oct 7, 2019 16:08

Failed Imagineer: Sep 22, 2018

UKMT: My Yorkshire wife still refuses My Whippy ice cream

# ? Oct 7, 2019 16:09

Josef bugman: Nov 17, 2011; Pictured: Poster prepares to celebrate Holy Communion (probablY)

This avatar made possible by a gift from the Religionthread Posters Relief Fund

Steve2911 posted:

Byron is shite. GBK is far better.

Whilst true I would say that Honest Burgers trumps both. With the exception of the milkshakes at GBK.

# ? Oct 7, 2019 16:12

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# ? May 24, 2024 01:43

OwlFancier: Aug 22, 2013

In yorkshire you get whippet ice cream instead.

# ? Oct 7, 2019 16:18

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > UKMT Red October 2019: Lies, dem libs, and polling companies.

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