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We use Res all the time in law. It just means thing or matter.
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Oct 8, 2019 00:02
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Siivola posted:It was the style of the times, as I've understood it. In the same period a lot of biblical stories were illustrated with everyone dressed in then-contemporary fashions instead of the artist trying desperately to figure out a suitable period dress for Jesus. One explanation I've seen is that this was the artists' way of underlining the continuing relevance of the ancient stories to the problems of the present day. 500 years ago Jerg Ratgeb painted an altar for the abbey church at Herrenberg. (It was sold by some idiots in the 19th century and is now in a museum in Stuttgart.) Here's a brochure produced for the anniversary (text in German). Ratgeb later took part in the Peasant's War and was executed for that by  being torn apart by four horses. 
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Oct 8, 2019 02:03
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Zopotantor posted:Ratgeb later took part in the Peasant's War and was executed for that by I sort of wondered how that works, and then I decided that I really really don't want to know. Jazerus posted:in context "agentes in rebus" is less vague - yeah, if taken totally literally and in the wonderfully stilted victorian tradition of latin translation, it means "people active in things", but both words had narrower senses based on context, practically speaking. "actors in public affairs" - the people who actually do the physical business of government - is more of the intended meaning. Cool, thanks- that makes sense. Still an awesome name. chitoryu12 posted:The modern “medieval fantasy” also incorporates a lot of Early Modern and even later aesthetic depending on the author. It only takes one discovery of firearms (whether actual gunpowder or a fantasy equivalent) to suddenly shift the setting to the early 18th century down to the frock coats and pistol dueling stances. Oh my goodness, yes. As a Pratchett fan it's been interesting watching Ankh-Morpork gradually change from a late Medieval setting to a Victorian one, all in a handful of in-world decades...
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Oct 8, 2019 06:04
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Well, it's the century of the fruitbat
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Oct 8, 2019 06:10
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Zopotantor posted:Ratgeb later took part in the Peasant's War and was executed for that by I guess any state would want to discourage treason, but that kind of brutality (and I mean specifically for treason) seems a rather European thing. Am I just imagining that? Tree Bucket posted:I sort of wondered how that works, and then I decided that I really really don't want to know. Not very well, if you're Robert-Francois Damiens and you've just tried to kill Louis XV.
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Oct 8, 2019 11:53
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Tree Bucket posted:I sort of wondered how that works, and then I decided that I really really don't want to know. In Germany, this kind of execution was called "Vierteilung" Guess why
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Oct 8, 2019 12:08
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“Case officers” seems like a more or less translation of agentes in rebus" Sorry I’m still on that
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Oct 8, 2019 12:34
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“Non-governmental organisation” has always been funny to me. It has a literal reading that’s extremely broad yet the connotation is rather specific.
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Oct 8, 2019 12:42
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I recently had the talk about how Game of Thrones was (IMO) better historical interpretations than Vikings. Can someone give me a rundown of real historical events that inspired famous fantasy titles? If it's outside the scope of this thread I'll take it elsewhere, but I figured you lot would know.
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Oct 8, 2019 12:48
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game of thrones is the War of the Roses.
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Oct 8, 2019 12:49
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Elissimpark posted:I guess any state would want to discourage treason, but that kind of brutality (and I mean specifically for treason) seems a rather European thing. Am I just imagining that? Yes. People are scum. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Execution_by_elephant?wprov=sfti1 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lingchi?wprov=sfti1<—nb, article contains an actual picture of naked deadish guy being cut into bits Also I mean, just read any Assyrian king’s descriptions of what he did to whoever crossed him. Cutting out tongues, flaying, impaling, and that’s just what they bragged about. skasion fucked around with this message at 13:29 on Oct 8, 2019 |
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Oct 8, 2019 12:58
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euphronius posted:game of thrones is the War of the Roses. It is, but it’s also directly inspired by the French historical novel series The Accursed Kings, which is about the start of the Hundred Years War.
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Oct 8, 2019 13:00
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Tias posted:Can someone give me a rundown of real historical events that inspired famous fantasy titles? If it's outside the scope of this thread I'll take it elsewhere, but I figured you lot would know. You probably know a lot of this, but Tolkien borrowed very freely from Norse literature in the Hobbit and the start of the LoTR. Myrkvithr in Atlakvitha became Mirkwood. Gandalf and Thorin are names from the poetic edda. The reforged sword is from Volsungasaga. The one ring is the ring of the Nibulungs. There's even a draugr (barrow-wight). Midgard became Middle Earth.
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Oct 8, 2019 13:02
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It's kinda funny in Vinland Saga when Canute is talking about how he's going to try making a paradise when you know what's going to happen in 50 years come 1066.Elissimpark posted:I guess any state would want to discourage treason, but that kind of brutality (and I mean specifically for treason) seems a rather European thing. Am I just imagining that? To put things in perspective, that's how the guillotine was initially a weirdly egalitarian invention, since it made beheading available to offenders of every class as opposed to the former series of differing execution methods. I've heard of plenty brutal execution methods outside of Europe, the ones that stick out the most to me are the Mongols having trampled people to death, locked them in a small box to die, or that one guy that they poured silver into his ears. The Persians also had their own horrible methods. It's not about deterrence, it's just inducing suffering as retribution and some kind of twisted entertainment.
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Oct 8, 2019 17:53
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Elissimpark posted:I guess any state would want to discourage treason, but that kind of brutality (and I mean specifically for treason) seems a rather European thing. Am I just imagining that? Yeah. Everybody sucks. Being torn apart by horses was used in China too. Pretty much every society in history does horrific poo poo when they have the opportunity to do so. Some just seem less brutal because they never had the power to do much.
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Oct 8, 2019 18:24
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SlothfulCobra posted:It's kinda funny in Vinland Saga when Canute is talking about how he's going to try making a paradise when you know what's going to happen in 50 years come 1066. Not just egalitarian, the guillotine was regarded as a quantum leap in humane execution technology. Previously, people had the very real probability of slowly strangling to death at the end of the rope rather than a quick snapping of the spinal cord and numerous beheadings were hideously botched, requiring multiple ax/sword swings. Come to think of it, it is probably a significantly more humane method than the U.S.'s current "hey, we just scrounged up this cocktail of bootleg execution drugs" system.
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Oct 8, 2019 19:22
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That's the trouble with humane execution arrangements. Usually once you start seriously considering such things you decide to skip executions altogether. One of the main reasons why, even though it was figured out quite some time ago that a sealed chamber pumped full of inert gas while scrubbing the carbon dioxide from the chamber would cause near instantaneous unconsciousness and then death without an "i'm asphyxiating" response - none of the states use such a chamber. If we truly wanted to kill people as quick and painless as possible, it's pretty much an ideal method to do that. All that's left are states that are like "well who cares if it hurts and is easy to gently caress up, gotta kill" with the lethal injections and then a few random states that have other procedures available and rarely use them - and 34 states where the death penalty is either completely outlawed, technically legal but there's a long-standing legal block against performing them, or no formal block but nobody's been executed in over a decade and the state doesn't look likely to execute in the foreseeable future.
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Oct 8, 2019 19:47
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Mr Enderby posted:You probably know a lot of this, but Tolkien borrowed very freely from Norse literature in the Hobbit and the start of the LoTR. Myrkvithr in Atlakvitha became Mirkwood. Gandalf and Thorin are names from the poetic edda. The reforged sword is from Volsungasaga. The one ring is the ring of the Nibulungs. There's even a draugr (barrow-wight). Midgard became Middle Earth. All the Tolkien specifically denied the One Ring being the Wagnerian ring of the Nibelungs; the source for that was Andvaranaut. It more closely resembles the Seven (it could find gold), and was cursed to bring bad luck (instead of turning the wearer into a wraith or Sauron clone).
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Oct 8, 2019 19:51
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Ancient Maya canals and fields show early and extensive impacts on tropical forests Researchers studying coastal wetlands in Belize have mapped a large scale network of irrigation ditches and canals built by the Mayans between one and two thousand years ago. The authors speculate that such systems were probably fairly widespread in the region, but evidence in other areas has been obliterated by modern farming and modification of the landscape. The image above is a false color elevation map, with the irrigation channels visible as the spiderweb of dark lines crisscrossing the center of the image. in the top and bottom left parts of Mayan settlements are also visible. Today the area has been claimed by wetland forests. 
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Oct 8, 2019 20:01
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Zopotantor posted:Tolkien specifically denied the One Ring being the Wagnerian ring of the Nibelungs; the source for that was Andvaranaut. It's the same ring. Andvari in the Volsunga Saga is Alberich in the Ring Cycle. Wagner mixed the Volusnga Saga and the Nibelungenlied to create the Ring Cycle. Edit: Sorry, reread your post, and I realise you were saying Andveranaut was the source for the ring cycle ring, not that it was the source for the one ring. The stories all cross over themselves because they're based on fifth century history, but impossibly mixed up and retold. The Nibelungs are Burgundians (except when they are dwarves, and also sometimes they are in Scandanavia). The Burgundians are at war with the Huns, lead by Attila. The Huns killed Gunnar, King of the Burgundians. This seems to be based on the historical destruction of the Burgundian kingdom by Hunnish mercenaries working for the Romans. But the Burgundians, Nibelung or otherwise, are also depicted as tight with the Volsungs, and the Volsungs rule over Hunaland, which means they are Huns (and also possibly Franks). Volsung was killed by a Geat (presumably a Wulfing), but Helgi Hundingsbane is simultaneously a Wulfing and a Volsung, while Sigfried, his brother, is a Volsung, but is not a Wulfing or a Niblung. Mr Enderby fucked around with this message at 20:32 on Oct 8, 2019 |
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Oct 8, 2019 20:18
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Zopotantor posted:All the Thirteen dwarves in The Hobbit! And Thorin gets two separate Eddaic names: his cognomen “Oakenshield” is the Eikinskjaldi of the Dvergatal. It’s worth noting that the Ring as portrayed in The Hobbit does bring Bilbo gold (sort of), and also a few bits of bad luck — all the larger significance to it was devised for the second book. In my opinion, Tolkien kind of overstated his case against the Volsung/Nibelung inspiration for the ring, probably because he was sick of Wagnerites bothering him about it. He was very fond of William Morris’ adaptation/translation of the Volsungasaga and I doubt that its idea of a magic ring never crossed his mind. John Rateliff goes into a lot of detail as to the inspiration for the Ring in his “History of the Hobbit”. He rejects the idea of Andvaranaut for the simple reason that it isn’t a ring of invisibility. He instead brings up Plato, who in his Republic has Glaucon tell a story of the magic ring of King Gyges, a fable about how morality is based in accountability and how a man granted magic invisibility through an artifact might well fall into evil behavior for want of anyone to catch him. This, says Rateliff, would be a clear inspiration for the Ring, if not for the unfortunate fact that I just pointed out — the Ring’s famously morally corrosive quality in The Lord of the Rings doesn’t exist in The Hobbit — and goes on to point out a series of rings of invisibility in the Mabinogion, Ariosto, Fenelon, and the Kalevipoeg, by way of pointing out that there is probably not one single inspiration for Bilbo’s ring, still less the greater significance attached to it in the sequel.
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Oct 8, 2019 20:24
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Did they have any mitigation against turning that all into mosquito-death-land?
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Oct 8, 2019 20:35
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Rocko Bonaparte posted:Did they have any mitigation against turning that all into mosquito-death-land? Stick it with small fish.
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Oct 8, 2019 20:37
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Rocko Bonaparte posted:Did they have any mitigation against turning that all into mosquito-death-land? i don't think malaria or yellow fever existed in Mesoamerica prior to the the Columbian exchange, so it might not have even been a real risk. In any case, nobody in the old world tropics ever let vector born illness stop them from building extensive irrigation works so I doubt it would have stopped the Mayans.
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Oct 8, 2019 21:48
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Yeah neither malaria nor yellow fever were present in the Americas pre-Colombus, so it would have been annoying but fine.
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Oct 8, 2019 23:34
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Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
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I've read that being torn apart by horses was frequently put down on the sentence but rarely executed since you were already hanged by the neck and then your guts cut open at that point, and the horses frequently failed to tear people apart or got injured in the process.
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Oct 9, 2019 00:31
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Horses getting injured doesn’t surprise me
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Oct 9, 2019 12:51
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euphronius posted:Horses getting injured doesn’t surprise me I'm an uncultured nerd (and also I find military history painfully boring. I like historical politics and society and stuff) so when in the fourth or fifth book of A Song of Ice and Fire when Stannis is marching his men to their death, I felt sorry for the poor horses instead of the men. The story wants us to feel bad about the starving humans but the horses were also starving and suffering. It made me wonder just how many poor animals - not just horses - have been killed in useless was throughout human history.
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Oct 9, 2019 13:17
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NikkolasKing posted:I'm an uncultured nerd (and also I find military history painfully boring. I like historical politics and society and stuff) so when in the fourth or fifth book of A Song of Ice and Fire when Stannis is marching his men to their death, I felt sorry for the poor horses instead of the men. The story wants us to feel bad about the starving humans but the horses were also starving and suffering. Most recently we killed a bunch of our own war dogs through neglect upon leaving Afghanistan. The suffering never ends.
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Oct 9, 2019 14:08
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NikkolasKing posted:It made me wonder just how many poor animals - not just horses - have been killed in useless was throughout human history. You probably don't want to look into WW1
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Oct 9, 2019 15:15
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Horses back in their heyday had it rough. I've heard stories of crowded cities filled with horses being used to get around, and if something goes wrong and the horse dies, it takes forever for people to get there and remove it. Of course, the cities were also absolutely filled with horseshit from horses pooping everywhere, and horses that were bred and kept to be mounts for war probably lived long lives being very expensively taken care of before the day came for them to be rode into battle.
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Oct 9, 2019 16:25
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The warhorse was probably more likely to break a leg on the jousting field than in battle. From what I've read, actually getting an enemy force to stop and fight you (on your terms) was a huge pain in the rear end in the pre- and early modern times.
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Oct 9, 2019 16:32
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Pretty sure lack of supplies is the biggest killer of horses and all animals in war. Maybe second after being intentionally slaughtered by their handlers when the human food supplies run short.
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Oct 9, 2019 16:49
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Dalael posted:You probably don't want to look into WW1 First thought I had too. Mounted cavalry vs. mechanized infantry became just a complete bloodbath.
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Oct 9, 2019 17:30
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Family Values posted:First thought I had too. Mounted cavalry vs. mechanized infantry became just a complete bloodbath. I mean, they also were used to transport supplies and tow artillery, probably more of a factor after 1914 is those being hit by artillery.
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Oct 9, 2019 18:00
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They didn't have horsey gas masks right away, either.
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Oct 9, 2019 18:45
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Family Values posted:First thought I had too. Mounted cavalry vs. mechanized infantry became just a complete bloodbath. Apparently homing pigeon had low mortality rate during the war.
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Oct 9, 2019 19:17
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According to a quick google searchquote:Eight million horses and countless mules and donkeys died in the First World War. They were used to transport ammunition and supplies to the front and many died, not only from the horrors of shellfire but also in terrible weather and appalling conditions.
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Oct 9, 2019 20:23
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Dalael posted:Eight million horses and countless mules and donkeys died in the First World War. They were used to transport ammunition and supplies to the front and many died, not only from the horrors of shellfire but also in terrible weather and appalling conditions. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rOCaizRD_dA
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Oct 9, 2019 20:37
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Dalael posted:According to a quick google search Oh poor ol'Freckles. Thought of artillery shells and died.
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Oct 9, 2019 20:40
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