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For a thread full of people who hold Umineko up as the most meaningful and significant VN they ever read, partially because of all the discussion and speculation at the time of the episodes original release, it's odd that basically no one wants to read/discuss the author's new work atm 
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Oct 8, 2019 08:04
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Several people have posted about it last page, though. The only thing I know about it is that it seems to have a pretty terrible translation, unfortunately.
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Oct 8, 2019 08:10
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I finished Ciconia, its good. AFancyQuestionMark posted:So, regarding speculation, which characters do y'all think are the four spies for the Three Kings? I think that Gunhild and Aysha are the most suspect so far, considering the pure justified malice they feel towards this world and humanity. Chloe's sudden heel turn at the end is probably an alternate personality, since it was stated outright that a lot of Gauntlet Knights are closeted CPPs and that was just too drastic of a personality shift. That personality may or may not be a spy for the Three Kings also. Even if not the three kings, Gunhild was 100% being used by someone considering the whole Maya situation and her stuff running a self diagnostic when it did. so yeah, she does seem like the best bet The Evil Chole/Choevil point you made is important even if its not the case. Since it means outside of her others could have turncoat personalities like that. I wouldn't even like rule out Meow, since that would be a good way for their mother to keep an eye on them. But ehh. Also I would only count on one of the spies being like this if its the case. Speaking of which, the main thing that bugs me is how the murder program stuff kinda like ignores Meow. Like those bits feel detached from the stage like the umineko bits did, so I dunno what to think on that front besides maybe those two really are programs and program Miyao isn't realizing he isn't the Miyao he is observing that has the Meow personality? I dunnooooooo AFancyQuestionMark posted:For a thread full of people who hold Umineko up as the most meaningful and significant VN they ever read, partially because of all the discussion and speculation at the time of the episodes original release, it's odd that basically no one wants to read/discuss the author's new work atm ITS LONG AND JUST CAME OUT NOT EVERYONE IS LOSERS LIKE US WITH ALL THE TIME IN THE WORLD e: btw okonogi is the best i mean jestress is the best, but okonogi is a close second and hey he may be a lovely adult but he is the best lovely adult those kids got Snooze Cruise fucked around with this message at 09:40 on Oct 8, 2019 |
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Oct 8, 2019 08:25
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:Several people have posted about it last page, though. The only thing I know about it is that it seems to have a pretty terrible translation, unfortunately. I have read through it all and haven't noticed any serious issues with the translation, personally - the narration does have that expository early-Umineko stiffness at times, but that's probably unavoidable with Ryukishi's writing as the source. Snooze Cruise posted:
Well, at the very least Yeladot Shavit seem to have some split-personality shenanigans going on, given their behavior in the final battle, but that seems like something the ABN forcefully implanted rather than Three Kings stuff. Also, any guesses as to what the hell is up with that post-credits vision of Jayden in secret research base gear? Or the glimpse of a Koshka-Jestress battle? And whose side is Seshat on? What is the deal with Tohjirou? Is he really working for Three Kings? So many questions... Snooze Cruise posted:ITS LONG AND JUST CAME OUT NOT EVERYONE IS LOSERS LIKE US WITH ALL THE TIME IN THE WORLD BUT I WANT TO DISCUSS IT NOW 
AFancyQuestionMark fucked around with this message at 10:51 on Oct 8, 2019 |
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Oct 8, 2019 10:44
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AFancyQuestionMark posted:For a thread full of people who hold Umineko up as the most meaningful and significant VN they ever read, partially because of all the discussion and speculation at the time of the episodes original release, it's odd that basically no one wants to read/discuss the author's new work atm I imagine for a few others the $40 tag is a bit much compared to the usual amount for a WTC set of chapters, even if it means more length/production values than usual.
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Oct 8, 2019 10:51
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I just finished it up yesterday and it took up a fair amount of my weekend, so yeah I'm not surprised more people aren't done yet. Really enjoyed it and I'm looking forward to where we're headed from here since there's a lot of intriguing plot points being set up, especially toward the end.Snooze Cruise posted:The Evil Chole/Choevil point you made is important even if its not the case. Since it means outside of her others could have turncoat personalities like that. I wouldn't even like rule out Meow, since that would be a good way for their mother to keep an eye on them. But ehh. Also I would only count on one of the spies being like this if its the case. Yeah, as soon as we found out about CPPs my mind immediately went to "well cool now we have a perfect way to make narrative POV's unreliable and enable people to literally hide things from themselves" so I'm really interested to see how r07 makes use of that going forward. As you said I don't think we're going to see many alternate personalities that are actually spies but we're almost assuredly going to see more unexpected sides of some characters. Nate RFB posted:I imagine for a few others the $40 tag is a bit much compared to the usual amount for a WTC set of chapters, even if it means more length/production values than usual. Yeah the price tag wasn't an issue for me but it very clearly is for a subset (not sure how big vs how vocal) of other people, which is unfortunate because the more people around to talk about stuff the better. I can understand R07's justification though in that they're all much older now, have day jobs and a larger team, and can't afford to just have a small group of people grind away all day and night making a doujin game for  .Honestly with the rate of how release will probably be (can't imagine we'll see "every comiket" releases for this series like Umineko was) even if the price tag stays the same for each episode that's still gonna get deferred over a couple of years, so unless you're really a stickler for pure value I don't think it's that big of a deal. Hopefully there will be some nice discounts during steam sales so people can jump on then.
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Oct 8, 2019 11:08
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I do have a lot of thoughts on Ciconia that I'll post later. The game is written such that any theory you come up with will come across as insane Pepe Sylvia nonsense and I appreciate that
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Oct 8, 2019 13:06
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I would love to read Ciconia but yeah at that price point it’s gonna have to wait a while
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Oct 8, 2019 17:01
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For me it’s not only the price point but also I just got AI so I see no reason to get another VN so soon.
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Oct 8, 2019 17:58
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AFancyQuestionMark posted:For a thread full of people who hold Umineko up as the most meaningful and significant VN they ever read, partially because of all the discussion and speculation at the time of the episodes original release, it's odd that basically no one wants to read/discuss the author's new work atm I'm trying to finish AI before playing that, so probably won't get around to it until the weekend after next or so.
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Oct 8, 2019 18:02
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By the way, for everyone still reading through Ciconia, make sure to actually read the character profiles when they appear at the pause menu (and press the small "next" arrow that appears near the bottom  ). There are a lot of them, so I only read the main character ones and only got around to reading the rest now after finishing the episode, and well...let's just say there are some insane details buried in there I would never have guessed from those characters brief appearances during the story itself. It indirectly reveals a ton of stuff about the setting as well.For example, Marianna is revealed as not only being a CPP but also being crippled by it, Naomi lost her memories and emotions through brain experimentation designed to make her a better Gauntlet Knight and Yeladot Shavit are straight up confirmed as an ABN COINTELPRO style op targeted against rebellious youngsters and Gauntlet Knights (though, again, given their behavior at the final battle I am 80% sure they're CPPs with forcefully implanted personalities or something of the sort).
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Oct 8, 2019 18:31
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AFancyQuestionMark posted:Well, at the very least Yeladot Shavit seem to have some split-personality shenanigans going on, given their behavior in the final battle, but that seems like something the ABN forcefully implanted rather than Three Kings stuff. Yeah, their whole thing was always being a barrier squad, like it also makes a point in their profile page that their own special attack could kill them so- I think the Jayden/research base stuff is tied into Miyao's factory visions? Like a world where that comes true seems like the best bet is from the research center, and Jayden also makes a point of why are you rejecting this world which seems to refer back to the conversations they had in bath with everyone during the final battle where they are like "if only we could just live in VR forever!" Did you read all the data fragments? The last one makes the Tohirou-Seshat stuff clearer. AFancyQuestionMark posted:For example, Marianna is revealed as not only being a CPP but also being crippled by it, Naomi lost her memories and emotions through brain experimentation designed to make her a better Gauntlet Knight and Yeladot Shavit are straight up confirmed as an ABN COINTELPRO style op targeted against rebellious youngsters and Gauntlet Knights (though, again, given their behavior at the final battle I am 80% sure they're CPPs with forcefully implanted personalities or something of the sort). Don't forget that Naima's drug stuff is all about personality management. Like uh, even without confirmed CPP stuff a big through-line is forcefully shaping people. Like Lilja's clay thing, and the possible suggestion her current personality was just designed to get Koshka to just open up again. Snooze Cruise fucked around with this message at 19:12 on Oct 8, 2019 |
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Oct 8, 2019 19:09
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:Several people have posted about it last page, though. The only thing I know about it is that it seems to have a pretty terrible translation, unfortunately. People are confusing Ryukishi's extremely weird prose with the translation being bad. It's also being spread by people with huge sticks up their rear end in regards to translator drama (like the muv luv guy). The TL isn't perfect but it isn't bad at all.
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Oct 8, 2019 19:14
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Ibram Gaunt posted:People are confusing Ryukishi's extremely weird prose with the translation being bad. It's also being spread by people with huge sticks up their rear end in regards to translator drama (like the muv luv guy). The TL isn't perfect but it isn't bad at all. Isn't Witch Hunt who did the original Umineko fan translation, which the official translation is largely based off?
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Oct 8, 2019 19:22
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Ibram Gaunt posted:People are confusing Ryukishi's extremely weird prose with the translation being bad. It's also being spread by people with huge sticks up their rear end in regards to translator drama (like the muv luv guy). The TL isn't perfect but it isn't bad at all. Yeah I spotted some grammar/spelling mistakes but it wasn't the end of the world. I agree it like, doesn't seem bad at all to me.
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Oct 8, 2019 19:24
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theblackw0lf posted:Isn't Witch Hunt who did the original Umineko fan translation, which the official translation is largely based off? Yes. The Umineko translation had more issues (the original at least, the official release edited it tho) so people still are holding 8 year old grudges over it. But the issue here is people looking at lines that look really weird and immediately assuming it's google translate tier TL work and not just that the writing in the original Japanese is also very strange on purpose.
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Oct 8, 2019 19:38
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AFancyQuestionMark posted:So, regarding speculation, which characters do y'all think are the four spies for the Three Kings? Going back to this Gunhild for the AOU seems like a freebie but there is still a possibility she is working for someone else/herself I guess. Rukshana is a possibility I can't shake. Like the civilian casualties coulda just been fake news, or something she did purposefully, or even she knew there was going to be casulaties just not Kindergartens and was manipulated that way? Naomi or Stan for managing Naima. Rethabile for being the CBB personality split: 
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Oct 8, 2019 19:41
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Snooze Cruise posted:Going back to this You know, now that I think about it her brother Cyril was left alone for a long time after evading the LATO conference murder trap while she thought he didn't go because he was too much of a coward, but is then slated for execution immediatley after she learns he was actually preparing an accusation and goes to visit him for information. There's no way that's a coincidence. Unrelatedly, it owns that one of the few animated sequences and like three entirely unique background assets were used just for a two minute gag scene that establishes Chloe as a super talented indie VR experience designer on the side. AFancyQuestionMark fucked around with this message at 20:07 on Oct 8, 2019 |
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Oct 8, 2019 19:51
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AFancyQuestionMark posted:You know, now that I think about it her brother Cyril was left alone for a long time after evading the LATO conference murder trap while she thought he didn't go because he was too much of a coward, but is then slated for execution immediatley after she learns he was actually preparing an accusation and goes to visit him for information. There's no way that's a coincidence. Yeah like her being there is the big thing, either they wanted her to see it or a CPP personality did it. Like it was an air attack and right here we got her Support TIP so I dunno it being a CPP personality ordering it while she unknowingly walk into her own trap makes a certain amount of sense to me. Snooze Cruise fucked around with this message at 19:58 on Oct 8, 2019 |
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Oct 8, 2019 19:55
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Snooze Cruise posted:Yeah like her being there is the big thing, either they wanted her to see it or a CPP personality did it. Like it was an air attack and right here we got her Support TIP so I dunno it being a CPP personality ordering it while she unknowingly walk into her own trap makes a certain amount of sense to me. Yeah, now that you pointed this out I don't see how it can possibly not be this.
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Oct 8, 2019 20:00
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i just met naima at the battle standard festival for peace but if anything happened to her i would kill everyone in this room and then myself
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Oct 8, 2019 20:00
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AFancyQuestionMark posted:Yeah, now that you pointed this out I don't see how it can possibly not be this. Yeah, like motivations seem pretty clear too? A personality that wants to reject the dispensable princess role her family has forced her into. As for motivations for the other possible spies I named Rukshana and Gunhild are obvious. Naomi has the emotion removal stuff. If its not her but Stan like, Stan does seem a bit more rebellious to the ABN thinking they let on. Ibram Gaunt posted:i just met naima at the battle standard festival for peace but if anything happened to her i would kill everyone in this room and then myself nods
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Oct 8, 2019 20:18
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Also, while I know that only the four competing factions got mentioned as having spies within their Gauntlet Knight units, with the way that LATO murder conference was arranged, Veronica could also be an agent of the Three Kings? IDK the IPMA seems to be completely under their thumb throughout most of the episode, but then announces that final truce in response to the threat of Snowball Earth, an event which seems to catch the Kings by surprise?
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Oct 8, 2019 20:32
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theblackw0lf posted:Isn't Witch Hunt who did the original Umineko fan translation, which the official translation is largely based off? Yes, and the Umineko translation is objectively terrible too. Ibram Gaunt posted:People are confusing Ryukishi's extremely weird prose with the translation being bad. It's also being spread by people with huge sticks up their rear end in regards to translator drama (like the muv luv guy). The TL isn't perfect but it isn't bad at all. Ryukishi's prose is not all that weird in the grand scheme of things. That's only a myth people came up with in order to defend WH's awful translations. There's such massive room for improvement in their writing that I'm kind of surprised people are defending them here.
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Oct 8, 2019 20:55
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:Yes, and the Umineko translation is objectively terrible too. Weird how you went from 'seems like it has a terrible translation' to an authoritative claim that its objectively bad over the course of a single post. The Umineko TL had alot of problems, which were at least mostly cleaned up. But people bringing up weird lines like "throwing bullets" as proof of babel fish are being extremely disingenuous - and those are the only examples I see people parroting across the internet. And those lines are basically how they read in JP as well as far as I understand. I'll totally own up to being wrong if the handful of fluent JP speakers both native and not have been just lying but I have no reason to believe they are.
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Oct 8, 2019 21:04
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I mean, the Umineko translation could certainly benefit from some editing, but tbh so could Umineko itself so...
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Oct 8, 2019 21:06
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Yeah, the current Umineko translation was a collaborative effort by Witch hunt, the Mangagamer team, and Ryukishi himself, so I find it hard to believe that it's all hosed up like that.
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Oct 8, 2019 21:16
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Ibram Gaunt posted:i just met naima at the battle standard festival for peace but if anything happened to her i would kill everyone in this room and then myself Wow
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Oct 8, 2019 21:22
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I don't know about older Umineko translations but I have no complaint about the current one on steam except it could have more strongly emphasized that George is fat. How's the music in the new Ryukiji thing?
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Oct 9, 2019 01:24
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It's still really good although I miss the mindblowing zts trance track Umineko always had.
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Oct 9, 2019 01:56
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ended ciconia with my head in my hands so it was pretty good, i guess. are we even going to loop this time? I mean that's pretty much The Brand but there's just so much going on 
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Oct 9, 2019 05:48
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So, let's start on the big picture questions: Who are the Kings and/or Seshat playing against? Who is "god's representative"? Are they somehow related to Vier and the research base? We know that the Kings want to annihilate human civilizations so that the inevitable remnants might be able to build something new, this time hopefully not as poo poo. But what is their opponent's goal/victory condition? Who "won" at the end of the first phase?
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Oct 9, 2019 09:01
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The Kings might be more part of the thing running the clock for the game than anything/ Like the final data fragment Seshat's Order and Tonjirou know like 80 out of 100 of the prophecy is true, so like there are things they just can't go against the Kings with if they want to wait for that 20% chance to win because some of the king's actions are just part of the setup, is the best way i can put it. As for the god stuff yeah the translation stuff seems part of that. Like the research lab might be some sort of system the person in charge of this game has in place to like, insert cheats or modifiers in their own game? By having this group of scientists make a discovery and "break" a rule. Anyway like, there are already some possible Lamadelta expys and Bern has some stuff that looks like could be pieces of hers too so, yeah I dunno. Snooze Cruise fucked around with this message at 09:36 on Oct 9, 2019 |
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Oct 9, 2019 09:26
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AFancyQuestionMark posted:So, let's start on the big picture questions: It's an interesting theme we see a few times. The 'bad people' are happy with the world and just live selfishly in it, while the 'good people' are driven to despair and want to burn it all down.
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Oct 9, 2019 12:55
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I'm guessing I should power through and finish Umineko before even starting the new one, eh? I'll probably have to bow out of this thread for a while.
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Oct 9, 2019 17:39
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Yeah. While the plot isn't directly related I feel like Ciconia would come across as insane gibberish to someone who isn't used to Umineko concepts and themes.
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Oct 10, 2019 00:37
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have they used the word "catbox" yet?
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Oct 10, 2019 00:46
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I disagree, like its building off the same concepts and knowing how previous "rules" work can help get you situated quicker, I mean i still think its something people could enjoy without playing umineko. Like (spoilers for umineko and cicona) most of the connective tissue seems more towards higurashi than umineko right now, anyway. the CPP stuff is obviously building off Beatrice's thing, but its not like a thing you will understand better if you played umineko, No Wave posted:have they used the word "catbox" yet? no but there is a obvious catbox already Snooze Cruise fucked around with this message at 01:00 on Oct 10, 2019 |
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Oct 10, 2019 00:53
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It's incredibly different to Umineko in most respects but I feel like several elements of it make more sense when contrasted to it. Incidentally it's cool that all the music tracks are just sortof there in the game files.
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Oct 10, 2019 02:50
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I don't think the previous ones are required reading but I really like how it's taken the meta layer thing and made it a basic part of the setting. Umineko did something similar for Higurashi, it's fun to see it happen. They're being real up front about time loops too. Gunhild feels like she has way too much going to be a spy for the kings too. probably faked her death at the end either way. Maybe Lilja? Lots of talk about her personality changing, Chloe asking who she is, she could have been modified into it. Maybe why Chloe killed her? And what the hell is up with Lingji having one of the blue girl gauntlets instead of her usual one in the final scene? interesting idea going around that the underground super science lab is all virtual, and that's how everyone there has supposedly transcended their humanity. lets hang out fucked around with this message at 03:31 on Oct 10, 2019 |
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Oct 10, 2019 03:22
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