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Yeah if you're willing to pay half what you'd pay a local full time dev, you can get good not great work. I still hated working with the offshore folks, not even due to code quality, just having to wait a half day minimum before any feedback is really hard to deal with.
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Oct 10, 2019 15:15
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We're making them keep our hours Hey, it's their drat second house or whatever
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Oct 10, 2019 15:16
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The Management posted:offshore developers don’t give a gently caress about your product, your customer, or your company. they have no vested interest in its success. they are effectively blue collar button pushers paid to meet a spec. if you had a really good QA team you could maybe make it work but QA is the first thing to go during the process of cuts that eventually leads of offshoring.
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Oct 10, 2019 15:18
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we have an offsore QA team and it loving sucks
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Oct 10, 2019 15:31
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Handsome Wife posted:This describes my limited experience working with offshore developers so precisely it's almost painful. I was managing a team of offshore devs and spent the majority of my time either writing extremely detailed specs that would be half-ignored or just fixing their lovely code because it was even more of a waste of time to send it back for changes. All to end up with bad code at slower than the pace I could have just written it myself.  except for Russians we paid a boatload. they were very good. but then again we visited their offices and they ours often to align
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Oct 10, 2019 15:34
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the qa team we have once didn’t get the requirements for a release, so instead of asking for it they just mucked about with the app for a week and sent back the all clear you’ll never guess what happened to the new features when they went live!!!
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Oct 10, 2019 15:36
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One time as I was walking a new intern through what they would have to do in order to implement a spec Marketing sent us, I grumbled too freely about how obnoxious and dumb one of the requested features was, so the intern took that to heart and didn't implement it at all. Marketing swung by and asked what was up when the intern wasn't there and I had to sigh and tell them to expect the feature later that week. I then had a chat with the intern that grumbling is just grumbling and we were actually supposed to do what Marketing asked (within reason, of course).
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Oct 10, 2019 15:41
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as with on-shore offices, local software contractors, and body shops, both quality and pain in the rear end varies i have had good enough experiences with off-shore contractors to sit down and really think about why people pay me money it is not because i'm god's gift to code, i know it ain't that
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Oct 10, 2019 16:21
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Shaggar posted:if you had a really good QA team you could maybe make it work but QA is the first thing to go during the process of cuts that eventually leads of offshoring. QA catches bugs at the end of the cycle, after the architecture has been baked and most of the code written. if you have a pile of poo poo code heaped upon a base of poo poo code, you’ll never get the bugs out. also let’s outsource QA, should could go wrong?
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Oct 10, 2019 16:26
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i've worked for dozens of different companies as a consultant and i have never seen a high-quality offshored product. it's theoretically possible but after decades of repeated failures across the field it amazes me that executives keep deliberately walking into that quagmire
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Oct 10, 2019 16:41
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Rex-Goliath posted:i've worked for dozens of different companies as a consultant and i have never seen a high-quality offshored product. it's theoretically possible but after decades of repeated failures across the field it amazes me that executives keep deliberately walking into that quagmire i've never seen a high-quality product from anyone
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Oct 10, 2019 16:43
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I've had decent luck working with teams that were actually employed full time by the same company I was working for, like as a remote office and not a vendor. most of the managers had worked in the US offices for a couple years too that said I've worked with nearly all possible combos of local and offshore people and Notorious b.s.d. posted:i've never seen a high-quality product from anyone
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Oct 10, 2019 16:51
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Hey, there's sqlite
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Oct 10, 2019 16:59
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offshoring is often done with cost-cutting in mind, while willingly shedding tons of the existing knowledge and experience within your org to replace it with non-specialized skill elsewhere. I'd be more surprised to see it succeed than fail.
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Oct 10, 2019 17:32
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The Management posted:offshore developers don’t give a gently caress about your product, your customer, or your company. they have no vested interest in its success. they are effectively blue collar button pushers paid to meet a spec. this is the exact experience i had with an offshore team we hired and we were forced to keep trying it for a full year. the offshore team eventually got passed to another team who successfully jettisoned them altogether.
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Oct 10, 2019 20:16
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it's weird to hear about people not working with offshore teams because I've only had one job in the last 15 years that didn't have some kind of international component even if it was test or internal tools or something
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Oct 10, 2019 20:19
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edit: awful.app ate this post and now it’s gone
PIZZA.BAT fucked around with this message at 16:45 on Oct 17, 2019 |
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Oct 10, 2019 21:28
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Gildiss posted:"But I could hire 10 consultants and pay them T&M when things go wrong for the price of 1 of you!" - actual bosses in 2019 reason me and half my previous team are currently unemployed right now
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Oct 10, 2019 22:14
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we have a team and Sweden that has a bad habit of taking other people's projects and reimplementing them in horrifying Scala such that it becomes impossible for anyone else to maintain, then they get bored and don't support it.
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Oct 11, 2019 03:19
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PIZZA.BAT posted:NEVER. SAY. A. FUGGIN. NUMBER. nice. keep those figgies coming
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Oct 11, 2019 03:23
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PIZZA.BAT posted:NEVER. SAY. A. FUGGIN. NUMBER.
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Oct 11, 2019 04:50
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i gave lots of numbers this week (not all the same)
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Oct 11, 2019 04:51
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got a lead that wants me to maintain some legacy apps coded in embarrassingly old tech, joining another dev doing same got a strong hunch that it's gonna be a replay of amazon where the guy that hired me on to "help" maintain legacy apps bolted for the door as soon as i signed wondering whether i should once again accept "sustaining" dev work and kiss the feet of the people who kill my career, or continue drawing down my savings. decisions
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Oct 11, 2019 04:57
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Behold: three posts, very related to each other. An enmeshed whole
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Oct 11, 2019 04:58
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bob dobbs is dead posted:Behold: three posts, very related to each other. An enmeshed whole
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Oct 11, 2019 05:00
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bob tomorrow the first call i get from a boiler-room recruiter i will steadfastly refuse to give a number in your honor
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Oct 11, 2019 05:07
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bob dobbs is dead posted:Behold: three posts, very related to each other. An enmeshed whole nice poem
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Oct 11, 2019 05:23
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I just realized that “never say a number” is the “leave your door open” of goon advice 15 years later
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Oct 11, 2019 05:46
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the actual best advice is “read the people and situation and decide when the best time to discuss it is” but that’s more than four words
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Oct 11, 2019 06:02
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bob dobbs is dead posted:We get deec quality from our offshore peeps cuz we pay them the equivalent of like 70k usd and they're Ukrainian and educated. Still lots of effort writing specs Yeah, pay a good salary* and get good devs, how surprising  * Probably not actually great, I can get smth like that locally and while I live bit more to the west, I am still in EE.
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Oct 11, 2019 12:45
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Gazpacho posted:bob tomorrow the first call i get from a boiler-room recruiter i will steadfastly refuse to give a number in your honor RECO!!!!!
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Oct 11, 2019 14:12
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qirex posted:the actual best advice is “read the people and situation and decide when the best time to discuss it is” but that’s more than four words right, it’s a negotiation. recruiters like to ask what you’re currently making. that is a trap. tell them you’re at a competitive total compensation for the role, even if it’s not true. if you work at a company that gives stock, tell them you’re walking away from a lot money in unvested shares if you leave the job and expect the new offer to account for that. sometimes it’s better to give them the number you’re shooting for as your current salary. this number is their floor. they know they can’t go below that one with an offer.
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Oct 11, 2019 14:45
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be careful with lying on salary tho some (bad) companies require w-2s or use that employment verification service that discloses your last salary (like what jonny said moto used); total comp is a better way to frame it as with any negotiation advice its context specific, if your a frisco fullstack architect who has a dozen options if this blows up in your face; if ur a server janitor in erie pa with two local employers, maybe not?
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Oct 11, 2019 15:01
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if someone is asking for you to do i9 verification before the offer its because they're trying to scam you. they can always revoke an offer if you don't verify afterwards so they're just trying to get your salary also i9 verification does not require w2s
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Oct 11, 2019 15:02
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unless you mean like previous employment verification rather than eligibility in which case idk how you deal w/ that
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Oct 11, 2019 15:05
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Shaggar posted:if someone is asking for you to do i9 verification before the offer its because they're trying to scam you. they can always revoke an offer if you don't verify afterwards so they're just trying to get your salary yeah bad places straight up demand for w2s no i9 justification its a useful indicator how they treat labor
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Oct 11, 2019 15:08
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Shaggar posted:unless you mean like previous employment verification rather than eligibility in which case idk how you deal w/ that and yeah iirc adp (?) offers an automated employment verification service that discloses former employees salary
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Oct 11, 2019 15:12
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qirex posted:the actual best advice is “read the people and situation and decide when the best time to discuss it is” but that’s more than four words yup. if you're confident that they can afford you then you want to push that discussion as late as possible- ideally to when they're ready to make an offer. also yeah sometimes you can open the negotiation but you actually have to know how to negotiate to do that in this specific case i didn't know what their expectation was so the best move was to see what they opened with. it wound up being significantly more than what i would have guessed if i'd been forced to
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Oct 11, 2019 15:13
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it's like fashion. you have to understand the rules before you're allowed to break them
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Oct 11, 2019 15:13
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| # ? May 27, 2024 16:44 |
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If you ever wanted to know How?? you shouldn't handle phone screens, have I got the thread for you... https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20197206 complete with the audio to the phone screens!
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Oct 11, 2019 23:34
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