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Lumbermouth posted:Oh man, I did not know about those spoilers and that makes me A LOT more interested in picking up H&B for a Trail campaign. Warning: it's been a while since I read the book, I may be misremembering them.
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Oct 2, 2019 15:55
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Hudson and Brand definitely sounds interesting. I’m absolutely ripping off From Hell, Penny Dreadful, League of Extraordinary Gentlemen, Planetary, etc to make a big, eventually-international “Secret History of the World” gumbo for my players. Half of them are English Lit professors or archaeologists/museum educators IRL so I’m throwing in lots of Shelley, Wilde, Conan Doyle, Melville et al and stretching the timeline/narrative meta fiction as far as I can without turning every session into Celebrity of the Week.
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Oct 2, 2019 17:25
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99 CENTS AMIGO posted:Hudson and Brand definitely sounds interesting. I’m absolutely ripping off From Hell, Penny Dreadful, League of Extraordinary Gentlemen, Planetary, etc to make a big, eventually-international “Secret History of the World” gumbo for my players. Half of them are English Lit professors or archaeologists/museum educators IRL so I’m throwing in lots of Shelley, Wilde, Conan Doyle, Melville et al and stretching the timeline/narrative meta fiction as far as I can without turning every session into Celebrity of the Week. If you haven't already read it, Kim Newman's "Anno Dracula" is also a fun entry into that kind of world where all the fictional characters are real and can interact. It's a whole series, moving forward in time with each book. Obviously, it's very vampire-centric, but if you enjoy that sort of mash-up it's a pretty enjoyable read in its own right.
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Oct 2, 2019 18:34
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Shadows Over Baker Street is an anthology of Holmes against the Mythos that I remember enjoying quite a bit. The quality of the stories vary, as with any anthology, but it's got A Study in Emerald, which I really liked (avoid spoilers if you haven't read it yet). Definitely a good source of gaslight adventure hooks and scenario material.
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Oct 2, 2019 18:46
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spooky pals, looking for some help here this halloween I am running a Call of Cthulhu scenario using Scooby Doo characters, which my friends have been pestering me to do for a while. I have run a couple of CoC one-shots before so I ain't worried about knowing how to do it. However, I am still mulling over source material. I'm not afraid to murderate Scooby Doo and the Mystery Gang, but I would rather they at least get through most of an adventure before we have to worry about bringing in any backup characters. So what I'm looking for is a comparatively conventional and low-to-moderate lethality adventure suited for one-shot play. Does anybody know of anything like that within the huge volume of published CoC resources? I am willing to purchase old sourcebooks or magazine issues through drivethru, though i would rather not pay for newer stuff. Also perfectly willing to put in the legwork to adapt adventures from other eras into the scooby doo time period. PupsOfWar fucked around with this message at 03:47 on Oct 12, 2019 |
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Oct 11, 2019 22:24
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PupsOfWar posted:spooky pals, looking for some help here The Night Floors is pretty difficult to get killed in, pretty cool, and with some slight tweaks you could throw in a classic "everyone running through doors" montage scene. Decent chance most of the gang will end up lost in Carcosa by the very end, though.
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Oct 11, 2019 22:36
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Ex Oblivione (Delta Green) just dropped on Dennis' Patreon. I did the maps for it and I'm really happy how they turned out.
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Oct 11, 2019 22:47
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Aerox posted:The Night Floors is pretty difficult to get killed in, pretty cool, and with some slight tweaks you could throw in a classic "everyone running through doors" montage scene. thanks! quote:Decent chance most of the gang will end up lost in Carcosa by the very end, though. that's good, not bad, imo
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Oct 11, 2019 23:18
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99 CENTS AMIGO posted:Hey CoC thread! I'm starting a new homebrew campaign starting off in the late Victorian Era that's meant to be very drop-in/drop-out. I was originally going to try to reverse-engineer D&D 5E into the setting as that's what many of my players are familiar with, but A) that's one hell of a square peg, B) I'm going to have a bunch of new players and I wanted to do something simpler, and C) it looks like with the "roll under" rules that Cthulhu may be the best option. I think one of the bigger things to keep in mind is to try to avoid excess rolling for investigating and stuff. I don't recall if the CoC rules included it or not, but I'm pretty sure the DG rules had you give out information based on their skill rating for essential type info (so a rating of 80 would be like everything core about the clue in regards to the skill) and rolls only for extra/side info or when there is some sort of immediate threat. Another way to leverage rolls is to use them not as a 'pass-fail' check but as a 'how-long-does-it-take-you-to-succeed' check. This prevents two scenarios that can really put a dampener on play: (1) no one can pass the check and they sit around trying to come up with another plan, (2) a congo-line of players try their hand at the task. They sort of stole the idea from GUMSHOE, but the basic principle is that the difficulty for the players should be assembling the puzzle pieces (often with some time mechanic to add pressure to the scenario) not in finding the puzzles pieces with which to solve the puzzle. I personally like the bonds and the vignette bits from the DG rules, and those are pretty easy to insert into any system. They're designed around the sanity mechanic, but you could re-purpose them in another game as some sort of willpower sort of deal. Even if your players don't have big detailed characters at the start, having some bonds gives them a skeleton to support their stat block, and vignettes give another way for people to flesh out their character away from the main play of the group.
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Oct 12, 2019 07:53
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ZypherIM posted:They sort of stole the idea from GUMSHOE, but the basic principle is that the difficulty for the players should be assembling the puzzle pieces (often with some time mechanic to add pressure to the scenario) not in finding the puzzles pieces with which to solve the puzzle. It's really a much older idea with a long tradition in CoC as an unwritten rule for good scenario design.
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Oct 12, 2019 19:40
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LatwPIAT posted:It's really a much older idea with a long tradition in CoC as an unwritten rule for good scenario design. This is true, but I think gumshoe is one of the first ones that codified it into a more tangible system, which drives home the point better than just sort of saying that you should do it. I mean, its the proper way to handle investigative/skills and stuff even in d&d, but you hardly ever see a gm do it. 99 cents amigo: dunno if you've ever looked into dungeon world at all, but even if you don't like the system I've found the gm tips from it for both handling failing forward and managing a larger scoped campaign to be useful ( https://book.dwgazetteer.com/fronts.html ). Especially moving from a fantasy d&d sort of thing to a more nebulous modern-ish setting taking the basic idea of fronts/agendas/etc helps me have the 'bad guys' feel more like a real thing and less like a club waiting around to get found by the players. Highjacking a note from night's black agents, their conspyramid is pretty useful for organizing your larger shadow organization as well ( http://site.pelgranepress.com/files/conspyramid.pdf ). Helpful for keeping track of what clues each little sub-section would have, and where it would lead, and in general lets you setup more complicated schemes.
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Oct 12, 2019 20:47
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Yeah, the game’s going to be HEAVILY social, with the goal of them enjoying the mysteries/crimes and interacting with each other and with my procession of terrible accents. I don’t want to alienate all the new players with too many dice rolls, or them not finding any clues.
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Oct 12, 2019 23:01
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King in Yellow RPG has a good stripped-down version of Gumshoe's rules, I recommend looking at that.
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Oct 12, 2019 23:03
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I sort of prefer the concept where it is in 7th Edition: namely, a written principle of good scenario design, but not something hardwired into the system. The problem with GUMSHOE, for me, is that by hardwiring it into the system it declares "It is never acceptable for a scenario to come to a stop because the PCs missed something", but I have two problems with that. The first is that it assumes a scenario which would be basically static were it not for PC action - a setup where there are no NPC adversaries who do poo poo. If you have a more dynamic game, where NPCs will take actions if the PCs get stuck, then the actions those NPCs take will, of course, generate new clues, creating a new opportunity for the PCs to get back onboard the investigation. It's literally the "We're going to have to make the awful choice to wait until the serial killer strikes again and hope they make a mistake" situation, a delightful moment of helplessness which Call of Cthulhu allows for (in fact, the 7th Edition Idea roll system is a genius way of implementing it) but which GUMSHOE actively forbids. The other problem I have with it is this: it is unacceptable for a scenario to stop because the PCs missed something is a perfectly reasonable axiom. On the other hand, there's plenty of other axioms which are equally true. It would be crap for a game to end in an early TPK because none of the players took combat skills, or the PC flying the plane the characters were on seriously hosed up their rolls attempting something daring, or whatever... but all of those outcomes are entirely possible in the GUMSHOE system. You can have a TPK in the first combat you have with human cultists, if you aren't careful. Whilst that is true of all systems, GUMSHOE stands out by carving off an entire area of PC activity and saying "The game coming to an early end due to PC failure in this area is unacceptable." This creates an unavoidable implication that anything not delegated to that zone must, therefore, be something where PC failure is entirely acceptable, and if that means an early end to the game, so be it. So GUMSHOE ends up in a weird space where a wide range of activities are designated as being Too Big To Fail, but at the same time the system, as written, would be perfectly fine with all the PCs dying in a fight in the first fifteen minutes of the first session; there's no rule in there which says you can only kill off PCs in the final encounter of the evening, for example. It's also overengineered for the job. There is no need to have separate investigative abilities, because the only purpose they serve is to help the referee decide who gets which clue, which you can pretty much do on the spot purely based off what's already been established about the PCs' backgrounds and personalities. You could reduce it all to a single "investigative stuff" pool, handle the distribution of clues that way, and then you save the work of the ref going through the entire investigative skills list and making sure a) the PCs haven't left any significant gaps and b) the clues are evenly distributed among them. What GUMSHOE actually works brilliantly for is as a pacing and spotlight sharing system - the way it's set up means that it's to the group's general benefit to allow everyone to step up and exert their abilities equally and you're actively punished for spotlight-hogging, and as the PCs' pools are worn down things get increasingly desperate until they have an opportunity to get their breath back. John Tynes has made the analogy that GUMSHOE is less a system for modelling the process of investigation - finding clues, working out what they mean on a player level rather than your PC's skills giving you the answer and telling you where to go next, and so on - than it is a system for modelling the experience of watching an investigative story, where the characters accomplish the tricky bits automatically and the next scene comes along at the right time. Which is frankly great - both flavours of game are legit and the design space is all the richer for having both. But I'm leery of recommending GUMSHOE as an investigative system without getting some idea of what people actually want out of an investigative game. If you want a game where your characters follow a series of breadcrumbs and reach the climax, guaranteed, and it's quite tightly paced and there's little slack time, go for GUMSHOE, you'll love it. If the idea of the players pinning all the handouts they've discovered to a red-string board and spending large portions of sessions debating what it could mean and concocting theories about how to proceed sounds incredibly fun to you, then I'd actively stay away from GUMSHOE, because it is designed by folk who generally speaking hate that sort of sift-over-the-clues-and-debate-them session and want to, if not eliminate it, at least excise it as much as possible from their gaming.
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Oct 15, 2019 18:10
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GUMSHOE and COC both contain a really lovely and ableist "Sanity" system that trivializes mental illness and dehumanizes people who are mentally ill. So both are crap. The only good system for this kind of horror NOT involving Ableist myths is Cthulhu Dark and the upcoming "Fate of" game. Not surprising considering those two games are made by people who aren't assholes. And Trail Of and Call Of are made by a guy who wrote a book about american history depicting ronald reagan as a savior of mankind (read: white males, clearly people suffering from AIDS aren't really people /sarcasm) and fdr as an evil socialist who's policies to weaken greedy capitalists control over america as being the beta version of nazi germany, and the latter was written by a radical mormon who got butthurt once people called him out for using sexist and ableist terms such as "crazy ex-girlfriend" to describe factions in a lovely crowdfunded board game and IIRC called people SJWS for doing so. It's like something written by a racist attracts people who are also bigoted or something? But seriously, this sub-genre of gaming about the Great Old Ones is still massively full of bigoted assholes only getting away with said bigotry because they don't (openly) call for the return of slavery, something that hatecraft actually wanted BTW.
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Oct 15, 2019 21:50
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TheNamedSavior posted:GUMSHOE and COC both contain a really lovely and ableist "Sanity" system that trivializes mental illness and dehumanizes people who are mentally ill. So both are crap. The only good system for this kind of horror NOT involving Ableist myths is Cthulhu Dark and the upcoming "Fate of" game. Not surprising considering those two games are made by people who aren't assholes. And Trail Of and Call Of are made by a guy who wrote a book about american history depicting ronald reagan as a savior of mankind (read: white males, clearly people suffering from AIDS aren't really people /sarcasm) and fdr as an evil socialist who's policies to weaken greedy capitalists control over america as being the beta version of nazi germany, and the latter was written by a radical mormon who got butthurt once people called him out for using sexist and ableist terms such as "crazy ex-girlfriend" to describe factions in a lovely crowdfunded board game and IIRC called people SJWS for doing so. It's like something written by a racist attracts people who are also bigoted or something? But seriously, this sub-genre of gaming about the Great Old Ones is still massively full of bigoted assholes only getting away with said bigotry because they don't (openly) call for the return of slavery, something that hatecraft actually wanted BTW. Source your eldrich tomes.
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Oct 15, 2019 21:59
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I read a Lovecraft short story collection (with notes by venerated scholar ST Joshi) recently. Dude could write, but man the racism was odious. It was sad to see cool ideas like Arthur Jermyn and He just fall right over into "yep okay that's a racism." I want to see someone with a good head rewrite Arthur Jermyn to take white idiots to task over interracial marriage. e: also now I want to run a Lovecraftian horror game in Pathfinder mostly based off of The Whisperer In Darkness. I KNOW IT'S A TERRIBLE IDEA AND I DON'T CARE.
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Oct 16, 2019 03:16
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Owlbear Camus posted:Source your eldrich tomes. For Hite: Was one of the writers on this book that is...quite a bias one: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/2191923.The_Complete_Idiot_s_Guide_to_U_S_History_Graphic_Illustrated From Said Book's Reviews posted:"Humorous, thorough, respectful of minorities and Native Americans, but ... said Thomas Jefferson was allied with "Republicans" -- repeated it six times without ever revealing those "Republicans" had nothing to do with the Republican Party. Painted everything FDR did as shady, even the New Deal and Social Security; and wrote off any responsibility Reagan had for Iran-Contra & the stratospheric rise in poverty & homelessness. Annoying, because overall I like it ... but that bias is pernicious." (Also he discusses it on that podcast with Robin Law, but not to "actually the kent state protesters DESERVED to be shot" extend because the dumbass wouldn't get away with it.) For Sandy: There was some discourse about the way that Sandy talked on BoardGameGeek: https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1843452/abject-misogyny-bgg quote:[From a Forum User, not Sandy] "This was posted a few days ago here on bgg, in a long running thread where the designer answers questions about his current and upcoming games. He described "the Venge" as a "twisted ex-girlfriend type" civ, one of 20 or so available to players in a game to be kickstarted later this year. So of course someone asked: And then Sandy got butthurt and decided to leave the board forever...only to come back months later: https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1844060/goodbye/ Sandy being a baby posted:Anyone who knows me also knows I am completely devoid of misogyny. So, basically, COC is far from being clear of regressive garbage!
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Oct 16, 2019 03:20
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Arivia posted:e: also now I want to run a Lovecraftian horror game in Pathfinder mostly based off of The Whisperer In Darkness. I KNOW IT'S A TERRIBLE IDEA AND I DON'T CARE. What about Pathfinder’s Strange Aeons Adventure Path. I don’t recall it being good enough to grab me but there might be data to repurpose from there.
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Oct 16, 2019 03:30
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TheNamedSavior posted:GUMSHOE and COC both contain a really lovely and ableist "Sanity" system that trivializes mental illness and dehumanizes people who are mentally ill. So both are crap. The only good system for this kind of horror NOT involving Ableist myths is Cthulhu Dark and the upcoming "Fate of" game. Not surprising considering those two games are made by people who aren't assholes. And Trail Of and Call Of are made by a guy who wrote a book about american history depicting ronald reagan as a savior of mankind (read: white males, clearly people suffering from AIDS aren't really people /sarcasm) and fdr as an evil socialist who's policies to weaken greedy capitalists control over america as being the beta version of nazi germany, and the latter was written by a radical mormon who got butthurt once people called him out for using sexist and ableist terms such as "crazy ex-girlfriend" to describe factions in a lovely crowdfunded board game and IIRC called people SJWS for doing so. It's like something written by a racist attracts people who are also bigoted or something? But seriously, this sub-genre of gaming about the Great Old Ones is still massively full of bigoted assholes only getting away with said bigotry because they don't (openly) call for the return of slavery, something that hatecraft actually wanted BTW. This is neither useful nor constructive for any ongoing discussion.
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Oct 16, 2019 03:32
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Helical Nightmares posted:What about Pathfinder’s Strange Aeons Adventure Path. I don’t recall it being good enough to grab me but there might be data to repurpose from there. Oh, there’s tons of support for it. Plenty of Mythos creatures statted out, dark rituals, occult classes, adventures, setting materials, horror mechanics and so on. Lots of stuff. It’s just that a D&D-derived dungeon crawling system with victory as an assumption of advancement is not a great system for cosmic horror in general.
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Oct 16, 2019 03:34
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Anybody following the Flotsam & Jetsam campaign Chaosium is running for the Cult of Chaos program? I wanted to follow it but then I read it was being contributed to by Matthew Dawkins, so now I'm worried it's gonna be loaded with pedophile deep ones or some poo poo.
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Oct 16, 2019 08:23
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I think I'm gonna buy that big assed bundle of Delta Green books at Bundle of Holding even though I don't play DG. It should be pretty easy to convert the stuff over to Coc for my group.
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Oct 16, 2019 17:47
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The Dregs posted:I think I'm gonna buy that big assed bundle of Delta Green books at Bundle of Holding even though I don't play DG. It should be pretty easy to convert the stuff over to Coc for my group.
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Oct 16, 2019 18:28
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Warthur posted:
I don't want to be dismissive here, because you've laid out a thoughtful analysis in some depth. My question for you is: have you played or run Gumshoe much? When I've run it, I've found that people still consider the clues they find in great depth and still enjoy puzzling over what it all means. They are just no longer asking whether they found all the clues in the abandoned apartment. I think the joy in the conspiracy board you're describing depends more on how tactile and reflective the players are, rather than Gumshoe versus Percentile. Players will sometimes obsess over finding all the clues and re-treading the same ground as a way to avoid going into something unpleasant and dangerous. This makes sense, but Gumshoe neatly removes some of the justification for it. The Yellow King RPG moves towards your idea of the general investigative pool with "pushes" by the way. Investigative abilities are no longer numbered; players can opt to spend a Push for any ability in a similar way to a point spend in previous Gumshoe games. It's pretty elegant. I think the response to the Too Big to Fail investigative side is that clues and puzzling over them are the core gameplay in CoC and investigative games. The analogy is if your characters never find the dungeon in a fantasy dungeon-delving game, which doesn't seem like a satisfying experience. Personally speaking, I have seen people say that rolling for clues was bad practice and that CoC adventures discouraged it. I can also say that, when I ran mystery games for the first few times, it was a huge temptation. Running and pacing mystery games is tricky, and skill checks provide a really easy way to hit the brakes if the players seem to be rushing ahead. This is anecdotal, but - sometimes when I've run Delta Green, it's been really hard to convince veteran players that they don't have to roll every time if they have an 80 in a skill. They have absolutely been conditioned to roll for every single clue. I personally really like both Gumshoe and the CoC/DG percentile games. I think that, even if Gumshoe is not to your tastes, thinking about some of the principles (like spotlight sharing, as you mention above) is a good practice.
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Oct 16, 2019 19:37
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TK_Nyarlathotep posted:Anybody following the Flotsam & Jetsam campaign Chaosium is running for the Cult of Chaos program? I wanted to follow it but then I read it was being contributed to by Matthew Dawkins, so now I'm worried it's gonna be loaded with pedophile deep ones or some poo poo. No pedophilia so far. You work for a Weekly World News type of paper and your boss is sending you out to see if there's a story. Each episode is a different story lead.
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Oct 16, 2019 21:19
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Sionak posted:I don't want to be dismissive here, because you've laid out a thoughtful analysis in some depth. My question for you is: have you played or run Gumshoe much?
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Oct 17, 2019 00:29
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ape!!! posted:No pedophilia so far. You work for a Weekly World News type of paper and your boss is sending you out to see if there's a story. Each episode is a different story lead. Do we know for sure which one he wrote/is writing or was it just the first one? I just saw his name on the list.
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Oct 17, 2019 02:43
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First episode is written by Mike Mason and concept is him and Scott Dorward. I havent run it yet and certainly don't want to spoil it here, but it looks fun to me. Edit: episode 2 is by Matthew Dawkins ape!!! fucked around with this message at 18:27 on Oct 17, 2019 |
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Oct 17, 2019 17:34
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Warthur posted:Yes. Okay. YMMV.
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Oct 17, 2019 18:40
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If anyone's interested, I've posted a run-though of the maths of Cthulhu Dark over in the game design workshop.
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Oct 18, 2019 13:02
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How useful is the Call of Cthulhu starter set for introducing new players? I try to expose people to different games in my local group and I'm a sucker for any kind of well put together kit that does a lot of the work for me.
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Oct 18, 2019 15:40
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RudeCat posted:How useful is the Call of Cthulhu starter set for introducing new players? I try to expose people to different games in my local group and I'm a sucker for any kind of well put together kit that does a lot of the work for me.
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Oct 18, 2019 16:08
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The only complaint I've seen about it is that the included dice are kinda cheap instead of the cool ones shown on the box.
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Oct 18, 2019 17:13
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Sionak posted:When I've run it, I've found that people still consider the clues they find in great depth and still enjoy puzzling over what it all means. They are just no longer asking whether they found all the clues in the abandoned apartment. I think the joy in the conspiracy board you're describing depends more on how tactile and reflective the players are, rather than Gumshoe versus Percentile. There are people who play Gumshoe like you're taking your purchases to the cash register. "Why Mr. GM, we have the following skills, could you be so good as to ring me up and give us our clues." And that's the stereotype, possibly influenced by the fact that RPPR plays it this way in their actual plays. To me, that's doing it wrong. If you're at your best as a Gumshoe GM, you're feeding people lots of information as part of the general narrative, so they have to figure out which is an actual clue and what is just background narrative. You have to give them the clues, but you don't have to tell them it's a clue. Figuring that out is the whole point of the game.
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Oct 18, 2019 17:38
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numtini posted:There are people who play Gumshoe like you're taking your purchases to the cash register. "Why Mr. GM, we have the following skills, could you be so good as to ring me up and give us our clues." And that's the stereotype, possibly influenced by the fact that RPPR plays it this way in their actual plays. To me, that's doing it wrong. If you're at your best as a Gumshoe GM, you're feeding people lots of information as part of the general narrative, so they have to figure out which is an actual clue and what is just background narrative. You have to give them the clues, but you don't have to tell them it's a clue. Figuring that out is the whole point of the game. - As the referee, ask if anyone's willing to spend a point from X pool. Which is a pretty clear flag that you have received or are about to receive a clue. - Rely on players asking if they can spend from their pools, at which point they'll go straight to the cash register gameplay you don't want.
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Oct 18, 2019 18:23
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Warthur posted:Honestly, I think it's the best product of its type I've ever seen. They include an entire solo adventure for people to play through to try out the mechanics, and the included adventures include a revision of Dead Man's Stomp where they got Chris Spivey of Darker Hue Productions/Harlem Unbound to really dial up the Harlem flavour of the adventure and do sidebars on the racial issues of the era. Sounds pretty awesome, thank you very much! moths posted:The only complaint I've seen about it is that the included dice are kinda cheap instead of the cool ones shown on the box. That's a bummer, but I've got other eerie dice at least.
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Oct 18, 2019 20:49
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I just started playing and I honestly think you don't need the starter set since you can download the starter rules for free, and it includes a scenario. All you need is dice. I just got both of the Delta Green bundles. I payed extra for the starter bundle, and then I picked up the lower priced scenario bundle. I have a lot to read.
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Oct 18, 2019 22:05
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Warthur posted:The problem is that this isn't quite how the system works, at least in some iterations of it - for instance, there's instances in Gumshoe where you have the option to pay points from your pool to get extra info and the only way to really implement that is to either: Yeah, points for clues was a mistake that Gumshoe seems to be moving away from. I like Kevin Kulps strategy of points for bonuses best, but the Yellow King style pushes work well too. If I were to GM ToC I'd use one of them.
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Oct 18, 2019 22:52
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neaden posted:Yeah, points for clues was a mistake that Gumshoe seems to be moving away from. I like Kevin Kulps strategy of points for bonuses best, but the Yellow King style pushes work well too. If I were to GM ToC I'd use one of them. Can you link to Kevin Kulp’s thing? I’ve played pretty fast and loose with my investigative spends.
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Oct 18, 2019 23:10
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