(Thread IKs:
fart simpson)
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lol fojar is in every thread about china beating off to how the chinese government will surely fall any day now
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# ? Oct 11, 2019 23:33 |
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# ? May 28, 2024 15:46 |
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is China still 98% Han? I support open borders, so this seems a bit problematic
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# ? Oct 11, 2019 23:33 |
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I mean even when I first moved to China in 2009 I'd hear people saying Uyghur children are thieves who will steal your phone. Uyghurs all carry knives. Don't buy lamb skewers from the Uyghur carts because they put AIDS-infected blood in them. They didn't get that from no Hollywood movie. And that laid the groundwork for making the Uyghurs a terrorism scapegoat. As an Ashkenazi Jew lemme tell you a little something about picking out an ethnoreligious minority to blame for state security issues that distract from economic, social, and governance failures. The majority population is already predisposed to dislike them, then the government disenfranchises them, deports them to camps where they can do reeducation through labor that will ultimately set them free. It's really bad. That said, the stuff about the government making people drink alcohol or eat during Ramadan is a red herring. It's usually about Party members or students in key schools. And anyway the Uyghurs have historically not been adherents of any particularly puritanical form of Islam. But taking people from their homes, putting them on holocaust trains to camps, separating families is absolutely genocidal. And that's without talking about how Xinjiang itself is now an open air prison even more oppressive than the West Bank.
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# ? Oct 11, 2019 23:34 |
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i mean as long as we're willing to call the concentration camps throughout US history and that are happening right now with absolutely atrocious conditions genocidal sure i think my concern here is it doesnt meet the colloquial definition of genocide from the american experience or lens, although maybe it absolutely meets that bar for the international perspective
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# ? Oct 11, 2019 23:41 |
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sincx has issued a correction as of 05:29 on Mar 23, 2021 |
# ? Oct 11, 2019 23:45 |
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comedyblissoption posted:i mean as long as we're willing to call the concentration camps throughout US history and that are happening right now with absolutely atrocious conditions genocidal sure I am and I do.
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# ? Oct 12, 2019 00:23 |
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what ICE is doing is evil and callous but it's not genocide. let's not water down terms
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# ? Oct 12, 2019 00:44 |
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comedyblissoption posted:the native american example also conveniently comes packaged with an example of a demonstration of the definition of genocide I mean, I suppose I agree with the implied question, which is that "genocide" is an imprecise and inaccurate term for what China is doing. Likewise, American concentration camps at the border are ethnic cleansing, not genocide - but that's more for lack of coordination/ability/means on the part of the American government, and they will almost inevitably escalate into genocide as climate change deteriorates. The same is possible of Chinese ethnic cleansing of Uighurs as well, of course. American policy towards Native americans pre-1900 was absolutely genocidal, there was a clear systemic desire to actually kill as many Native people as possible, up to and including all of them. Post-1900, policies slid into "mere" ethnic cleansing - the goal shifted from intentional mass murder to the systemic erasure of the underlying culture and obliteration of organization within that culture. It's easy for one to lead to the other or vice versa, but the genocide label specifically tends to get used to conjure up Holocaust imagery, which comes with its own host of implications in terms of politics and propaganda. In this context I would argue that what the US has collaborated to do with Turkey in Syria is genocide, to give an idea of what I'd consider the thresholds to be. Israeli treatment of Palestine is a good example of a situation that routinely vacillates between genocide and ethnic cleansing, with Israel alternatively slowly pushing the Palestinians into less and less space with worse and worse conditions and sending in death squads to cull the Palestinian population. I don't think the Uighur situation is there yet but I guess that's possible, although somewhat unlikely since the Uighur are so much less a percentage of the overall population of China.
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# ? Oct 12, 2019 00:47 |
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if you're consistent with your definitions more power to you and i'm cool with that from your cultural lens. i can see how some other perspectives would consider a systematic attempt to erase cultures or detain people could fall under a term like genocide so like speaking from the american experience, if people were saying the current concentration camps are genocide, people in america who support the concentration camps can try to show there's no systematic mass murder therefore it calls into question all the other allegations of sexual abuse, human trafficking, torture, deaths, etc. and dilutes efforts to try to stop the concentration camps i think there's a qualitative difference between the mass murder genocide the US is supporting in say yemen and the mass torture and internment of targeted demonized minorities in the US and americans IME tend to use different words for the two scenarios
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# ? Oct 12, 2019 00:51 |
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mila kunis posted:what ICE is doing is evil and callous but it's not genocide. let's not water down terms Not yet anyways
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# ? Oct 12, 2019 00:52 |
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LimburgLimbo posted:Note it’s still laughable that you’re coming here talking about this comparing Eastern Europe (?!) Yes, someone posted an english slur in a non-english land as some kind of proof that these people are all racists, as if the slur means anything to most of these people. I was responding to that specific thing, because it's insanely bullshit. In your post I just quoted you gave plenty of examples of why they're actually racists, so why post the wrong one? e: i'm sorry for being so annoying about this, it just pisses me off for some reason Truga has issued a correction as of 01:28 on Oct 12, 2019 |
# ? Oct 12, 2019 00:54 |
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also, ethnic cleansing is a synonym for genocide what the gently caress is going on in here lmao
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# ? Oct 12, 2019 00:56 |
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comedyblissoption posted:if you're consistent with your definitions more power to you and i'm cool with that from your cultural lens. i can see how some other perspectives would consider a systematic attempt to erase cultures or detain people could fall under a term like genocide The reason I generally support a distinction between ethnic cleansing and genocide is the fact that the Holocaust is so large in our cultural memories (and for good reason!). If we use genocide as a blanket term to refer to all instances of mass death, cultural erasure, or imprisonment, it becomes easy for collaborators and supporters to argue that no, it's not really genocide, because they aren't literally marching people into the gas chambers and there are no mass graves, so check mate. Having terms that refer to something that is nominally less bad, or at least less organized/effective yet, but still very bad, prevents this sort of absolutism in comparisons. Similar to how Nazis will argue that they are not Nazis because they are not literally members of the Nationalist Socialist German Worker's Party or whatever bullshit.
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# ? Oct 12, 2019 00:57 |
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As droll as it is to bring up my background I do still interact with a lot of NatSec people and because of it I know these protests, including the international response to xijang province stuff are a huge nothingburger. Why? In private if you press basically any person with experience in national security will admit nothing we can do will ever topple the Chinese government at this point. And we sure as poo poo aren't going to invade western china to save a bunch of goat farmers.
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# ? Oct 12, 2019 01:05 |
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It may help if I post Raphael Lemkin's original definition of genocide:Axis Rule in Occupied Europe posted:“By ‘genocide’ we mean the destruction of a nation or of an ethnic group. This new word, coined by the author to denote an old practice in its modern development, is made from the ancient Greek word genos (race, tribe) and the Latin cide (killing)…. Generally speaking, genocide does not necessarily mean the immediate destruction of a nation, except when accomplished by mass killings of all members of a nation. It is intended rather to signify a coordinated plan of different actions aiming at the destruction of essential foundations of the life of national groups, with the aim of annihilating the groups themselves. Genocide is directed against the national group as an entity, and the actions involved are directed against individuals, not in their individual capacity, but as members of the national group”
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# ? Oct 12, 2019 01:49 |
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quote:Hello Blizzard Community . . .
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# ? Oct 12, 2019 01:54 |
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Venom Snake posted:As droll as it is to bring up my background I do still interact with a lot of NatSec people and because of it I know these protests, including the international response to xijang province stuff are a huge nothingburger. Why? In private if you press basically any person with experience in national security will admit nothing we can do will ever topple the Chinese government at this point. And we sure as poo poo aren't going to invade western china to save a bunch of goat farmers. Can this guy be the new America guy everyone hates? I wanna be cool.
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# ? Oct 12, 2019 01:55 |
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Venom Snake posted:As droll as it is to bring up my background I do still interact with a lot of NatSec people and because of it I know these protests, including the international response to xijang province stuff are a huge nothingburger. Why? In private if you press basically any person with experience in national security will admit nothing we can do will ever topple the Chinese government at this point. And we sure as poo poo aren't going to invade western china to save a bunch of goat farmers. and we JUST had our worst post of the thread a couple pages ago
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# ? Oct 12, 2019 02:00 |
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Venom Snake posted:As droll as it is to bring up my background I do still interact with a lot of NatSec people and because of it I know these protests, including the international response to xijang province stuff are a huge nothingburger. Why? In private if you press basically any person with experience in national security will admit nothing we can do will ever topple the Chinese government at this point. And we sure as poo poo aren't going to invade western china to save a bunch of goat farmers.
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# ? Oct 12, 2019 02:04 |
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like, over a period of several weeks, would those radars and missiles have an opportunity for a kill shot once? twice? three times? that's important info
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# ? Oct 12, 2019 02:06 |
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Bloodnose posted:It may help if I post Raphael Lemkin's original definition of genocide: I agree on the first three and disagree on the last two, basically. I concede that I am making a semantic and political rhetoric argument and not a moral argument - what we call it doesn’t make it any better. But quoting what amounts to the dictionary at me doesn’t really change my position here. But to be clear, what we call what’s happening in China, or the US-Mexico border, or Syria, or Pakistan, doesn’t change that they are all bad and should stop.
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# ? Oct 12, 2019 02:08 |
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china's immediate sovereignty and political hegemony are given. but once that extends into the near area is when it turns into a math problem, basically
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# ? Oct 12, 2019 02:15 |
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Truga posted:also, ethnic cleansing is a synonym for genocide what the gently caress is going on in here lmao Maybe colloquially, but ethnic cleansing can mean 'merely' forcefully relocating an ethnic group.
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# ? Oct 12, 2019 02:18 |
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Bloodnose posted:But taking people from their homes, putting them on holocaust trains to camps, separating families is absolutely genocidal. And that's without talking about how Xinjiang itself is now an open air prison even more oppressive than the West Bank. lmao jesus christ what is wrong with your tiny lib brain. you are a repugnant mouthpiece for complete drivel
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# ? Oct 12, 2019 02:19 |
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Bloodnose posted:Can this guy be the new America guy everyone hates? I wanna be cool. My favorite Venom Snake thing was his prediction that Hillary would match Obama in terms of black voter turnout in the general election.
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# ? Oct 12, 2019 02:21 |
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Bloodnose posted:I mean even when I first moved to China in 2009 I'd hear people saying Uyghur children are thieves who will steal your phone. Uyghurs all carry knives. Don't buy lamb skewers from the Uyghur carts because they put AIDS-infected blood in them. They didn't get that from no Hollywood movie. This is C-SPAM everyone knows Israel is awful
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# ? Oct 12, 2019 02:32 |
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Not a fan of this China place but I'm willing to letting them change my mind. The hard way.
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# ? Oct 12, 2019 02:38 |
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Lol at oppression olympics with the palestinians.
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# ? Oct 12, 2019 02:45 |
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blizzard is 100% going to get banned from China over this lmao
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# ? Oct 12, 2019 02:54 |
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The artist who designed those cat ears headphones did that one “Mei the force be with Hong Kong”
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# ? Oct 12, 2019 03:03 |
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sincx has issued a correction as of 05:29 on Mar 23, 2021 |
# ? Oct 12, 2019 03:09 |
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Dr. Killjoy posted:The artist who designed those cat ears headphones did that one
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# ? Oct 12, 2019 03:11 |
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lol
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# ? Oct 12, 2019 03:13 |
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Autism Sneaks posted:lmao jesus christ what is wrong with your tiny lib brain. you are a repugnant mouthpiece for complete drivel I'm glad genocide denial isn't totally gone from the forum.
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# ? Oct 12, 2019 03:13 |
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Terminal autist posted:This is C-SPAM everyone knows Israel is awful Bloodnose posted:Oh wow a whole new tu quoque! And with ethnic flavor once you remembered I'm Jewish! You're a gas.
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# ? Oct 12, 2019 03:15 |
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sincx has issued a correction as of 05:29 on Mar 23, 2021 |
# ? Oct 12, 2019 03:34 |
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Grapplejack posted:
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# ? Oct 12, 2019 03:37 |
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hey here's my hot take: hong kong protest is to china what brexit is to the E.U. which liberal commentariat in the U.S. does not understand
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# ? Oct 12, 2019 03:40 |
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sincx posted:
I think bloodnose posted that today to show that he doesnt support genocide in israel, actually. In response to a person who made a flippant Israel comment after he posted today that he is jewish. Correct me if I'm wrong bloodnose
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# ? Oct 12, 2019 03:41 |
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# ? May 28, 2024 15:46 |
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lol at the guy who said I/P is the holocaust of the 21st century. The gas used in the 21st century holocaust isn't zyklon b but rather CO².
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# ? Oct 12, 2019 03:42 |