comedyblissoption posted:

i mean as long as we're willing to call the concentration camps throughout US history and that are happening right now with absolutely atrocious conditions genocidal sure

comedyblissoption posted:

the native american example also conveniently comes packaged with an example of a demonstration of the definition of genocide

mila kunis posted:

what ICE is doing is evil and callous but it's not genocide. let's not water down terms

LimburgLimbo posted:

Note it’s still laughable that you’re coming here talking about this comparing Eastern Europe (?!)

comedyblissoption posted:

if you're consistent with your definitions more power to you and i'm cool with that from your cultural lens. i can see how some other perspectives would consider a systematic attempt to erase cultures or detain people could fall under a term like genocide

so like speaking from the american experience, if people were saying the current concentration camps are genocide, people in america who support the concentration camps can try to show there's no systematic mass murder therefore it calls into question all the other allegations of sexual abuse, human trafficking, torture, deaths, etc. and dilutes efforts to try to stop the concentration camps

i think there's a qualitative difference between the mass murder genocide the US is supporting in say yemen and the mass torture and internment of targeted demonized minorities in the US and americans IME tend to use different words for the two scenarios

Axis Rule in Occupied Europe posted:

“By ‘genocide’ we mean the destruction of a nation or of an ethnic group. This new word, coined by the author to denote an old practice in its modern development, is made from the ancient Greek word genos (race, tribe) and the Latin cide (killing)…. Generally speaking, genocide does not necessarily mean the immediate destruction of a nation, except when accomplished by mass killings of all members of a nation. It is intended rather to signify a coordinated plan of different actions aiming at the destruction of essential foundations of the life of national groups, with the aim of annihilating the groups themselves. Genocide is directed against the national group as an entity, and the actions involved are directed against individuals, not in their individual capacity, but as members of the national group”

quote:

Hello Blizzard Community . . .

I want to take a few minutes to talk to all of you about the Hearthstone Grandmasters tournament this past weekend. On Monday, we made the decision to take action against a player named blitzchung and two shoutcasters after the player shared his views on what’s happening in Hong Kong on our official broadcast channel.

At Blizzard, our vision is “to bring the world together through epic entertainment.” And we have core values that apply here: Think Globally; Lead Responsibly; and importantly, Every Voice Matters, encouraging everybody to share their point of view. The actions that we took over the weekend are causing people to question if we are still committed to these values. We absolutely are and I will explain.

Our esports programs are an expression of our vision and our values. Esports exist to create opportunities for players from around the world, from different cultures, and from different backgrounds, to come together to compete and share their passion for gaming. It is extremely important to us to protect these channels and the purpose they serve: to bring the world together through epic entertainment, celebrate our players, and build diverse and inclusive communities.

As to how those values apply in this case:

First, our official esports tournament broadcast was used as a platform for a winner of this event to share his views with the world.

We interview competitors who are at the top of their craft to share how they feel. We want to experience that moment with them. Hearing their excitement is a powerful way to bring us together.

Over the weekend, blitzchung used his segment to make a statement about the situation in Hong Kong—in violation of rules he acknowledged and understood, and this is why we took action.

Every Voice Matters, and we strongly encourage everyone in our community to share their viewpoints in the many places available to express themselves. However, the official broadcast needs to be about the tournament and to be a place where all are welcome. In support of that, we want to keep the official channels focused on the game.

Second, what is the role of shoutcasters for these broadcasts?

We hire shoutcasters to amplify the excitement of the game. They elevate the watchability and help the esports viewing experience stay focused on the tournament and our amazing players.

Third, were our actions based on the content of the message?

Part of Thinking Globally, Leading Responsibly, and Every Voice Matters is recognizing that we have players and fans in almost every country in the world. Our goal is to help players connect in areas of commonality, like their passion for our games, and create a sense of shared community.

The specific views expressed by blitzchung were NOT a factor in the decision we made. I want to be clear: our relationships in China had no influence on our decision.

We have these rules to keep the focus on the game and on the tournament to the benefit of a global audience, and that was the only consideration in the actions we took.

If this had been the opposing viewpoint delivered in the same divisive and deliberate way, we would have felt and acted the same.

OK, what could Blizzard have done better, and where do we go from here?

Over the past few days, many players, casters, esports fans, and employees have expressed concerns about how we determined the penalties. We’ve had a chance to pause, to listen to our community, and to reflect on what we could have done better. In hindsight, our process wasn’t adequate, and we reacted too quickly.

We want to ensure that we maintain a safe and inclusive environment for all our players, and that our rules and processes are clear. All of this is in service of another important Blizzard value—Play Nice; Play Fair.

In the tournament itself blitzchung *played* fair. We now believe he should receive his prizing. We understand that for some this is not about the prize, and perhaps for others it is disrespectful to even discuss it. That is not our intention.

But playing fair also includes appropriate pre-and post-match conduct, especially when a player accepts recognition for winning in a broadcast. When we think about the suspension, six months for blitzchung is more appropriate, after which time he can compete in the Hearthstone pro circuit again if he so chooses. There is a consequence for taking the conversation away from the purpose of the event and disrupting or derailing the broadcast.

With regard to the casters, remember their purpose is to keep the event focused on the tournament. That didn’t happen here, and we are setting their suspension to six months as well.

Moving forward, we will continue to apply tournament rules to ensure our official broadcasts remain focused on the game and are not a platform for divisive social or political views.

One of our goals at Blizzard is to make sure that every player, everywhere in the world, regardless of political views, religious beliefs, race, gender, or any other consideration always feels safe and welcome both competing in and playing our games.

At Blizzard, we are always listening and finding ways to improve—it is part of our culture. Thank you for your patience with us as we continue to learn.

Sincerely,

J. Allen Brack
President of Blizzard Entertainment

Venom Snake posted:

As droll as it is to bring up my background I do still interact with a lot of NatSec people and because of it I know these protests, including the international response to xijang province stuff are a huge nothingburger. Why? In private if you press basically any person with experience in national security will admit nothing we can do will ever topple the Chinese government at this point. And we sure as poo poo aren't going to invade western china to save a bunch of goat farmers.

Venom Snake posted:

As droll as it is to bring up my background I do still interact with a lot of NatSec people and because of it I know these protests, including the international response to xijang province stuff are a huge nothingburger. Why? In private if you press basically any person with experience in national security will admit nothing we can do will ever topple the Chinese government at this point. And we sure as poo poo aren't going to invade western china to save a bunch of goat farmers.

Venom Snake posted:

As droll as it is to bring up my background I do still interact with a lot of NatSec people and because of it I know these protests, including the international response to xijang province stuff are a huge nothingburger. Why? In private if you press basically any person with experience in national security will admit nothing we can do will ever topple the Chinese government at this point. And we sure as poo poo aren't going to invade western china to save a bunch of goat farmers.

Bloodnose posted:

It may help if I post Raphael Lemkin's original definition of genocide:

It fits the Holocaust, it fits the Armenian Genocide, it fits American countries' treatment of indigenous peoples, it fits what Trump is doing on the border, and yes it fits what China is actively doing to the Uyghurs.

Truga posted:

also, ethnic cleansing is a synonym for genocide what the gently caress is going on in here lmao

Bloodnose posted:

But taking people from their homes, putting them on holocaust trains to camps, separating families is absolutely genocidal. And that's without talking about how Xinjiang itself is now an open air prison even more oppressive than the West Bank.

Bloodnose posted:

Can this guy be the new America guy everyone hates? I wanna be cool.

Bloodnose posted:

I mean even when I first moved to China in 2009 I'd hear people saying Uyghur children are thieves who will steal your phone. Uyghurs all carry knives. Don't buy lamb skewers from the Uyghur carts because they put AIDS-infected blood in them. They didn't get that from no Hollywood movie.

And that laid the groundwork for making the Uyghurs a terrorism scapegoat. As an Ashkenazi Jew lemme tell you a little something about picking out an ethnoreligious minority to blame for state security issues that distract from economic, social, and governance failures.

The majority population is already predisposed to dislike them, then the government disenfranchises them, deports them to camps where they can do reeducation through labor that will ultimately set them free.

It's really bad.

That said, the stuff about the government making people drink alcohol or eat during Ramadan is a red herring. It's usually about Party members or students in key schools. And anyway the Uyghurs have historically not been adherents of any particularly puritanical form of Islam.

But taking people from their homes, putting them on holocaust trains to camps, separating families is absolutely genocidal. And that's without talking about how Xinjiang itself is now an open air prison even more oppressive than the West Bank.

Dr. Killjoy posted:

The artist who designed those cat ears headphones did that one

“Mei the force be with Hong Kong”

gradenko_2000 posted:

Autism Sneaks posted:

lmao jesus christ what is wrong with your tiny lib brain. you are a repugnant mouthpiece for complete drivel

Terminal autist posted:

This is C-SPAM everyone knows Israel is awful

Bloodnose posted:

Oh wow a whole new tu quoque! And with ethnic flavor once you remembered I'm Jewish! You're a gas.

Let me get this one out of the way too: Yes, Israel is Jews acting like Nazis and what they're doing to the Palestinians is indeed a genocide.

However, and now let's have the whole crowd say it with me: "things can be bad in two places at once!"

Israel doing genocide does not mean China is not doing a genocide. And boy is China doing a big one for which you're working very hard to do apologia. What a guy.

Grapplejack posted:

blizzard is 100% going to get banned from China over this lmao

gradenko_2000 posted:

sincx posted:

What the hell is this?

Terminal autist didn't "remember" you're Jewish. You stated it yourself this very page, while attempting to argue that the fact you belong to a certain ethnic group should give your opinion more weight, your opinion on a subject that has nothing to do with your ethnic group.

Your reply to Pevan Stan from last month (that you quoted above in response to Terminal autist) is completely inapplicable to what Terminal autist said, and you're trying to make Terminal autist look anti-Semitic when he did nothing of the sort.

And I vehemently disagree with the proposition that one's ethnicity gives them more authority on unrelated matters.

The reason being that ethnic groups are not inherently good or bad, since we all seen (and as Terminal autist pointed out) that an oppressed ethnic group can become the oppressors a mere few decades later.