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I've got a package here for a Laverne Button?
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Oct 13, 2019 20:59
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Cojawfee posted:Doesn't help that Stuart Baird directed and he didn't know anything about Star Trek and thought Geordi was an alien. I'm not here to defend Stuart Baird, but that script was unsalvageably bad. No director could have made it work.
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Oct 13, 2019 21:51
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I used to not hate Seth but he's too loving centrist
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Oct 13, 2019 22:07
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Yeah he's rich.
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Oct 13, 2019 22:09
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Would Nemesis have been ok if it had evil Romulan Tasha Yar instead of Shinzon?
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Oct 13, 2019 22:14
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marktheando posted:Would Nemesis have been ok if it had evil Romulan Tasha Yar instead of Shinzon? Better, but still hosed in ten different ways
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Oct 13, 2019 22:15
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I would rather have kept Shinzon and shitcanned the dune buggy.
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Oct 13, 2019 22:37
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why didn't they recast data? let me suggest:
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Oct 13, 2019 22:40
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marktheando posted:Would Nemesis have been ok if it had evil Romulan Tasha Yar instead of Shinzon? The Borg and Klingon drama tends to outshine it, but the Romulan stuff on TNG is really, really good. A Romulan TNG movie should have been the TNG equivalent of Undiscovered Country. Instead it felt like they were trying to manufacture TNG Wrath of Khan, again. Timeless Appeal fucked around with this message at 00:43 on Oct 14, 2019 |
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Oct 13, 2019 23:52
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no it wasn't
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Oct 14, 2019 00:42
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TNG Romulans are lovely and boring (not that Nemesis's enormous rear end pull of "oh hey guys heres the romulan's vampire slave race you never heard about before" is much better) and so is Sela. Tasha's sister is the only worthwhile character in the family Nemesis's problems are way too serious for a simple swap of villains to fix it though. It's a nothing movie.
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Oct 14, 2019 00:51
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bring back cool voice ds9 romulan, you know the one
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Oct 14, 2019 00:57
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Romulus getting obliterated and provoking a major change to Picard's life unironically is the most interesting thing that's actually been done with the Romulans. They may be one of the OG antagonist races but Cardassians stole their niche and did it a lot better.
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Oct 14, 2019 01:06
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Thom12255 posted:I believe the Redlettermedia review talks about Logan a bit - https://redlettermedia.com/mr-plinketts-star-trek-nemesis-review/ This is a real pro click and worth the 40 minutes. Laughed my rear end of trying to understand how Picard likes Redneck dunebugging.
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Oct 14, 2019 01:10
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Seemlar posted:Romulus getting obliterated and provoking a major change to Picard's life unironically is the most interesting thing that's actually been done with the Romulans. It's not so much that as no one involved in the production of any of the shows had the fainest clue what to do with them. The Cardassians couldn't take their niche, because what the gently caress is the Romulan niche? Klingons but aloof? We never really got a sense of what drove them. Klingon and Cardassians both have super clear motivations that they'll tell you, at length, but none of the shows ever really presented us with a Romulan Star Empire that had meaning in the context of the Federation and its allies.
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Oct 14, 2019 01:11
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literally Enterprise made its vulcans better romulans than romulans are romulans* *enterprise sucks rear end
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Oct 14, 2019 01:13
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Pick posted:*enterprise sucks rear end 
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Oct 14, 2019 01:15
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It seems weird to me that people are so desperate for them to make more of the kind of Star Trek we have hundreds and hundreds of episodes of already.
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Oct 14, 2019 02:20
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Comrade Fakename posted:It seems weird to me that people are so desperate for them to make more of the kind of Star Trek we have hundreds and hundreds of episodes of already. Ah, you're talking about the not bad stuff they used to make instead of the bad stuff they make now
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Oct 14, 2019 02:26
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Comrade Fakename posted:It seems weird to me that people are so desperate for them to make more of the kind of Star Trek we have hundreds and hundreds of episodes of already. Almost as if people like the characters and want to see them do things.
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Oct 14, 2019 02:27
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Cojawfee posted:Almost as if people like the characters and want to see them do things. kiss, mostly
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Oct 14, 2019 02:30
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Pick posted:It's not so much that as no one involved in the production of any of the shows had the fainest clue what to do with them. The Romulans are poorly characterized in TOS unfortunately. Balance of Terror portrays their culture through the lens of an honorbound soldier at the mercy of a government with which he disagrees. They're portrayed as a dark mirror of the Federation's society, highly cultured but violent and aggressive. In Enterprise Incident they're a bunch of villainous buffoons commanded by an exotic seductive space babe. I recently watched these two episodes back to back and it's a really weird turnaround. Imagine if the second ever episode about the Klingons had been a sex comedy. All the stuff in the later franchise about Romulans being opposed to Vulcan logic is basically extrapolated from a line the Romulan commander drops as she tries to get into Spock's pants.
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Oct 14, 2019 02:46
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They started out as the big race that the Federation was kind of in a cold war with. All that brinksmanship, baiting ships across borders, secretly supporting opposing sides in a proxy war, mysterious incidents being blamed on eachother, constantly so tense that any event could spiral into another war to destroy everything, They even tried to play it like the big Romulan war with the federation back in the day was still kinda fresh even though it was ~200 years ago by that point. Then the Cardassians came along with THEIR recent war against humanity and THEIR cold war and THEIR borders being fraught with incidents that could turn into another war and THEIR Marc Aleimo, and I guess they just felt so much more comfortable about writing them and coming up with vassal races for the Cardassians than they did for the Romulans. For some reason, TNG writers were fine with constantly inventing new aspects of Klingon culture but somehow couldn't for the Romulans.
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Oct 14, 2019 02:56
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Comrade Fakename posted:It seems weird to me that people are so desperate for them to make more of the kind of Star Trek we have hundreds and hundreds of episodes of already. fight yourself
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Oct 14, 2019 02:58
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skasion posted:The Romulans are poorly characterized in TOS unfortunately. Balance of Terror portrays their culture through the lens of an honorbound soldier at the mercy of a government with which he disagrees. They're portrayed as a dark mirror of the Federation's society, highly cultured but violent and aggressive. In Enterprise Incident they're a bunch of villainous buffoons commanded by an exotic seductive space babe. I recently watched these two episodes back to back and it's a really weird turnaround. Imagine if the second ever episode about the Klingons had been a sex comedy. that would be Friday's Child and hrmmmmmm
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Oct 14, 2019 03:08
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SlothfulCobra posted:Then the Cardassians came along with THEIR recent war against humanity and THEIR cold war and THEIR borders being fraught with incidents that could turn into another war and THEIR Marc Aleimo, and I guess they just felt so much more comfortable about writing them and coming up with vassal races for the Cardassians than they did for the Romulans. For some reason, TNG writers were fine with constantly inventing new aspects of Klingon culture but somehow couldn't for the Romulans. I mean they couldn't really quite do the same things, even with the poor Romulan characterization up to that point. The main thing about the Cardassians is they're written as behaving in extremely human ways (like modern humans. contemporary humans) which works for contrast to a better, more advanced, kinder, fairer Federation comprised of who we (us again) have the capacity to be. Romulans are at the very least stiff, we know that. And their shoulderpads like go even further in being like, we're stiff! It's visual languarj anyway, 
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Oct 14, 2019 03:13
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I think if I were trying to write for the Romulans, I'd have them focus heavily on cultural traditions. They are extremely isolationist because they fear the influence of outside cultures. To them, the Federation's overtures of cultural exchange reads as naked aggression. When the Federation says "Let's talk about our art and history and values with each other", the Romulans hear an implicit threat "So that our culture can supplant yours." To them, this justifies their hostility toward the Federation and the constant willingness to go to war. The Romulans see their empire as defending itself from another powerful expansionist force, guarding their people against the tempting promises of Federation decadence. Out of all civilizations that oppose the Federation, the Romulans may be the most dangerous and unpredictable, because they are ultimately driven by fear, and fear can justify anything. At least, that's how I would handle it. I think the main thing is just to find an understandable motivation. That gives you a good basis for a recurring antagonistic force, like the Klingons and Cardassians.
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Oct 14, 2019 05:10
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Every post in here about the Romulans was more entertaining than the Romulans have ever been. TNG always felt like the writers made an episode, went "oh poo poo we dont have a way to make the interesting part of the plot happen we should use the romulans" and then spent so long making the Romulans not a waste of time that the whole episode suffered.
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Oct 14, 2019 07:20
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I'm still annoyed they didn't make that one Romulan who was assigned to operate the Defiant's cloak a recurring character.
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Oct 14, 2019 07:28
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At least Spiner succeeded in what he set out to do, I mean, no one was going to make another TNG movie after Nemesis. The one thing I never got was why they wrote in an obvious back door for Data to return in B4, if Spiner was running the show. As for Romulans, I'm sad Tomalak never got a big sendoff in the movies. I'm rewatching Babylon 5 and Jesus, Andreas Katsulas could really go for it when he wanted too. rip in peace
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Oct 14, 2019 07:29
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marktheando posted:I'm still annoyed they didn't make that one Romulan who was assigned to operate the Defiant's cloak a recurring character. Another thing Voyager ruined. davidspackage posted:As for Romulans, I'm sad Tomalak never got a big sendoff in the movies. I'm rewatching Babylon 5 and Jesus, Andreas Katsulas could really go for it when he wanted too. rip in peace Tomalak was peak Romulan in the great All Good Things finale. The real finale for TNG.
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Oct 14, 2019 07:35
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I liked Diane Duane's Romulans a lot.
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Oct 14, 2019 08:36
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Pick posted:literally Enterprise made its FTFY
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Oct 14, 2019 10:16
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teamcharlie posted:FTFY enterprise sucks, are you feeling ok? e: andorians were the best part of enterprise tho
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Oct 14, 2019 10:49
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jeeves posted:Another thing Voyager ruined.
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Oct 14, 2019 13:22
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The Romulans seem like they just want to be left alone, really. They left Vulcan after a huge cultural shift they wanted no part in, and given their proclivity for hiding and isolationism since, it would be safe to say they absolutely do value their liberty to just be Romulans over anything else. That would be an interesting take, that they're so obsessed with personal and cultural freedom (in the shithead way of "you're free to be an individual, so long as you don't stand out") that they created some kind of hyper-oppressive "Don't Tread on Me" state where everyone is constantly watching everyone else for signs of rights-infringement. So they're all cold and distant, because nobody wants to accidentally step on anyone's toes, and the Tal Shiar is like a Ministry of Defense Against Barbaric Cultural Practices, both internal and external.
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Oct 14, 2019 14:39
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Give me space Romans or give me death
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Oct 14, 2019 14:58
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Blade_of_tyshalle posted:The Romulans seem like they just want to be left alone, really. They left Vulcan after a huge cultural shift they wanted no part in, and given their proclivity for hiding and isolationism since, it would be safe to say they absolutely do value their liberty to just be Romulans over anything else. Who knows how well translated it is but putting Empire in your name sort of invites challenge
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Oct 14, 2019 15:04
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I would sign on to the idea that the Romulans just want to be left alone, but on TNG they keep trying to false-flag the Federation into a war -They get a defector to unwittingly lure the Enterprise into the Neutral Zone to make it look like the UFP violated the treaty which would justify a war -They attempt to use Geordi as a Manchurian Candidate assassin to kill a Klingon military governor and start a war -They support the Duras side of the Klingon Civil War and arguably encouraged it to start -They attempted to launch a secret invasion of Vulcan
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Oct 14, 2019 15:09
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FlamingLiberal posted:I would sign on to the idea that the Romulans just want to be left alone, but on TNG they keep trying to false-flag the Federation into a war Which is kinda interesting that they really, really needed a false flag. It implies they couldn't have just... gone to war, despite the fact that they seem to be a military dictatorship.
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Oct 14, 2019 15:27
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