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 I resubbed to FFXIV and was apparently logged out at the Golden Saucer casino so when I logged back in I was basically staring at the new mahjong tables. Finally re-read all the rules and played a couple novice AI games and it’s finally starting to click, although I am awful at remembering yaku. I know there’s tons of variants to mahjong but is “doman” mahjong (which I think is just riichi, and Doma is some fantasy place I haven’t been to) going to teach me anything wrong or give me any bad habits?
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Jul 13, 2019 14:22
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| # ? Jun 6, 2024 15:58 |
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Bad habits (this also applies to Bronze Room majsoul): Calling tiles before you have a confirmed yaku Pon palace/Kan castle Often new players will call just because the button pops up. You want to make sure your call furthers the progress of your hand before mashing the button. Kan calls benefit players with closed hands. Opening a hand just for kan is seldom worth the risk. While not necessarily bad habits, doman has a few misleading aspects. The biggest one is that they display the dora tile and not the indicator. If dora is 4pin that means there is a 3pin in the dead wall that will never be drawn. It's something you need to keep in mind when trying to evaluate odds of winning and dealing in. Similarly the setting that leaves behind a shadow tile when a discard is called can make determining remaining tiles difficult. The indicator that they use to indicate dangerous tiles is also questionable. I forgot how it determines tile safety but there are situations where you shouldn't believe it.
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Jul 13, 2019 15:55
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 feels bad
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Sep 6, 2019 22:11
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 dora 4 suji trap riichi, time for my brilliant comeback  
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Oct 14, 2019 15:25
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Help me, goons, you're my only hope.  The gently caress am I doing wrong that I did not just win either of these hands outright, and how do I not do it anymore?
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Feb 18, 2020 02:34
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Okay, so: - The left-most one is indicating you're in 'furiten'. That means that, previously in the round, you discarded a tile that you are now waiting on to win - specifically the 1 man ( 🀇 ). Being in furiten means you are not allowed to win off someone else's discard, even if it's a different tile i.e. because you're in furiten for 1 man, you can't win off of 4 man either.) This rule is in place because otherwise, you wouldn't ever be able to play defensively - you would never be sure which tiles are safe to play against an opponent, because they could win off anything. With this rule in place, you can look at their discards and know that anything they've discarded is a safe tile to play against them. - The right-most one indicates that you don't have any 'fan'. These are the scoring blocks of riichi mahjong. In order to win, you need to qualify for one of a whole bunch of different hands (yaku), many of which mandate that you don't pick up an opponent's tile. There's no easy way to explain this without going through the entire list, but the general gist of it is that you shouldn't just randomly and impulsively call on people's tiles without knowing whether you have an actual valid hand. The simplest way to make any hand valid is to never call on anyone's tiles, get a hand together, and call riichi. The second simplest way is to call a triplet of a dragon, the wind of the seat you're at, or the wind of the round. The third simplest way is to not include any terminals in your hand - only tiles from 2-8. (This is tanyao, and it's nearly what you had - except you drew a 1 man at the end, which invalidated it. And discarding the 1 man would have put you into furiten again! Whee!) There's a bunch of other hands - I feel like https://ubcmahjongclub.wordpress.com/riichi-mahjong-yaku-list/ is one of the more readable lists. If it says 'closed only' that means you can't pick anything up. If it says 'open' that means you can, though this may devalue the hand.
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Feb 18, 2020 02:49
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Yeah. As a general rule you don't want to call anyone else's tiles by chii or pon unless you 1) have an open yaku you can make and 2) have a hand that's going to be valuable if you win with it. If you keep your hand closed you can always declare riichi for at least one yaku, and it's often worth more due to dora tiles and tsumo/ippatsu.
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Feb 18, 2020 02:57
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TL;DR: don't steal another person's pieces to make a triplet unless it's a wind or dragon, or better yet not at all, got it.
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Feb 18, 2020 03:51
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I think the biggest flaw with the comprehensive cheat sheets is that they sort all the different types of winning hands by their value, when in reality most of them are so absurdly rare they just clutter the page up with noise. A little while ago I found out you can pare the list down to a third of the size if you only consider the yaku that are used in 99% of winning hands. I think it's a way more manageable list for people just starting out. Most of the remaining 1% of hands are upgrades to the 99% as well.
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Feb 18, 2020 04:03
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dragon enthusiast posted:I think the biggest flaw with the comprehensive cheat sheets is that they sort all the different types of winning hands by their value, when in reality most of them are so absurdly rare they just clutter the page up with noise. A little while ago I found out you can pare the list down to a third of the size if you only consider the yaku that are used in 99% of winning hands. I think it's a way more manageable list for people just starting out. Most of the remaining 1% of hands are upgrades to the 99% as well. Don't think you mentioned this, but a new player should note that the yaku with the "*" next to it must be won from a closed hand (no stealing tiles, except for a final ron).
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Feb 18, 2020 04:16
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I need to find the cheat sheet which lists the yaku by category and highlighted the common ones. Also other than yakumen, the only yaku that theoretically "could" be completed open but aren't allowed are iipeikou and ryanpeikou, which is a good rule of thumb to remember. re: calling, it's OK to not call for now except for obvious cases like having an honor pair and a pair of dora, but eventually you'll have to start learning when to do it to speed up your hand. there's an old joke that the progression from beginner to expert is like, "call even without confirmed yaku" (aka "yaku fishing") -> "call only honors" -> "never call" -> "call even without confirmed yaku This is a good set of articles about calling judgment https://mahjong.guide/2017/07/22/puyos-guide-to-calling-tiles-part-1/ quote:The below are my personal cutoffs: Feels Villeneuve fucked around with this message at 16:41 on Feb 25, 2020 |
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Feb 25, 2020 16:22
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If only I had read the previous post two months ago; I just sat in tenpai for three rounds going “whaddaya mean no yaku?” because my only yaku was an “iipeikou”, but my hand was open. I figured it was like sanankou and was fine as long as the runs themselves were closed. Whoops!
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Apr 19, 2020 03:10
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Someone is organizing an Evo side tournament for Mahjong Soul. As of this time they're still figuring out the details in twitter threads.
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Jun 10, 2020 14:36
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New at this, got hooked via Clubhouse Games on the Switch. Am I right that it makes sense, when you're 1-away with some small N tiles left, and nobody is in riichi or looks close so it's likely an exhaustive draw, to make a call that gets you into tenpai even if you don't have a plausible yaku after opening your hand, just to get on the right side of the noten penalty?
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Jun 12, 2020 23:28
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KICK BAMA KICK posted:New at this, got hooked via Clubhouse Games on the Switch. Am I right that it makes sense, when you're 1-away with some small N tiles left, and nobody is in riichi or looks close so it's likely an exhaustive draw, to make a call that gets you into tenpai even if you don't have a plausible yaku after opening your hand, just to get on the right side of the noten penalty? Yeah, that's fair. It doesn't hurt to do it even when someone is in riichi, if it changes your hand so that you can discard a safe tile.
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Jun 12, 2020 23:46
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crying my rear end off i was in tenpai a bunch but monica kept yanking the football away EightFlyingCars fucked around with this message at 18:28 on Jun 13, 2020 |
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Jun 13, 2020 18:24
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What client is that?
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Jun 13, 2020 18:46
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MegaZeroX posted:What client is that? Mobile game called Kemono Mahjong, it's actually really good but it makes me feel like a dumbass sometimes
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Jun 13, 2020 18:53
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Is it considered poor form for the last place player to end a match with a weak hand that doesn't even get them out of fourth while the other players still had something to fight over? I'm not actually mad about that; the hand I am still mad about is the one where it was late in the last round when I had a ~5000 point lead, I'm dealing, one-away with decent waits but I'm just playing defense against the one trailing me who had already opened without an obvious yaku; drew a white dragon that was useless to me but I sussed out that they were waiting on exactly that so I'm just holding it and throwing trash, and then some useless dumbass throws the other one into their ron with a bunch of dora to beat me. gently caress! This is a really fun game. Glad I learned it.
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Jun 17, 2020 03:25
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Yes, if you pulled that in a mahjong parlor you'd get kicked out.
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Jun 17, 2020 03:35
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Online though I think it is fine to do as even if it doesn't change your placing, it will still effect your over rank increase/decrease (at least in Majsoul, IDK about others).
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Jun 17, 2020 03:50
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But in that same situation is it cool to throw caution to the wind and go for thirteen orphans or whatever
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Jun 17, 2020 05:06
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MegaZeroX posted:Online though I think it is fine to do as even if it doesn't change your placing, it will still effect your over rank increase/decrease (at least in Majsoul, IDK about others). Online if you end the match to confirm last place for yourself you're just an idiot. Especially as you get into the higher ranks and fourth places become extremely punishing. Confirming 2nd or 3rd place, depends on the circumstances. If you're not in extreme danger of falling to 4th place it might be worth trying to push for a more expensive hand to improve your placement. Speaking of fourth place I've been having a bad time in Jade room. -200 per loss basically 
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Jun 17, 2020 05:24
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dragon enthusiast posted:Online if you end the match to confirm last place for yourself you're just an idiot. Especially as you get into the higher ranks and fourth places become extremely punishing. Confirming 2nd or 3rd place, depends on the circumstances. If you're not in extreme danger of falling to 4th place it might be worth trying to push for a more expensive hand to improve your placement. I mean, if you have are in the silver room and have a functional 2 han hand or whatever and are behind by 20 thousand points, you can at least bring your -90 to a -88. In expectation its going to turn out better than some unobtainable wild yakuman gambit. I've definitely done this before Also, me last week was this:  After those games, I got more last places and third places to bring me down to 100. But at the end of last night  And then my 3 matches today were this:  Now I'm back up to 689.
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Jun 17, 2020 05:50
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KICK BAMA KICK posted:Is it considered poor form for the last place player to end a match with a weak hand that doesn't even get them out of fourth while the other players still had something to fight over? My in-laws would say nasty things if I did that.
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Jun 17, 2020 05:53
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KICK BAMA KICK posted:Is it considered poor form for the last place player to end a match with a weak hand that doesn't even get them out of fourth while the other players still had something to fight over? i'd only really consider it a dick move if you rushed it with an open hand tbh (which might actually get you suspected of collusion)
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Jun 17, 2020 14:14
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Yeah it seems a bit weird to expect the player in last to stop playing the game and just go full betaori. If they are going out with a closed hand, I don't think it should matter how bad it is, clearly they weren't trying to intentionally mess with the top ranked players.
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Jun 17, 2020 16:35
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I think this comes down to the differences between playing in real life and playing online. Probably not great to play games in real life like you're trying to rank up on tenhou, especially if it's a friendly game.
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Jun 17, 2020 17:27
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Discussions like these are why I stick to playing in FFXIV against NPCs so I don't inadvertently make people mad by being utterly clueless.
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Jun 17, 2020 17:38
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Going for a longshot Riichi that could get you out of last seems fine to me. Opening up your hand to remove that possibility seems bad though.
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Jun 17, 2020 17:41
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Suphx: Mastering Mahjong with Deep Reinforcement Learning (April 2020 preprint) Mahjong AI playing Tokujou on Tenhou transiently attains 10-dan and stabilizes at 9-dan. (AI are not allowed in Houou.) There are some online videos analyzing its behavior (in Japanese).
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Jun 17, 2020 17:59
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~supposedly~ the reason why tenhou uses a ++/+/0/--- point spread instead of a more balanced one like ++/+/-/-- was because there used to be a big ragequitting problem in earlier online clients. By making the 4th place penalty so huge you always have a reason to fight to secure better placement.
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Jun 17, 2020 19:13
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e: nvm
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Jun 17, 2020 23:55
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Went looking for what you call this and foundquote:Sanmenchan is also sometimes called a piano wait.
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Jun 18, 2020 03:23
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The "chords" are intervals of 3, it's not very literal
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Jun 18, 2020 03:37
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food court bailiff posted:Discussions like these are why I stick to playing in FFXIV against NPCs so I don't inadvertently make people mad by being utterly clueless. the less calls you make the better you'll play early on. making unnecessary calls is pretty much the only thing i would call a 'dick move' in mahjong other than deliberately taking your entire time allotment every single time in online clients. like, if you make a stupid riichi thats still a valid move that can win you the hand if you make it most of the time. if youre making every call you can though, you can gently caress other people over in draw order and take tiles that other people mightve actually had a use for and it will pretty much always irrevocably gently caress your hand into irrelevance. winning a cheap final hand in 4th with no position movement as a result isn't a dick move btw its playing mahjong.
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Jun 18, 2020 07:34
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Farley you son of a bitch
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Jun 19, 2020 00:58
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Muscle Wizard posted:winning a cheap final hand in 4th with no position movement as a result isn't a dick move btw its playing mahjong. i dont get this line of thinking... if it's S4 and you're in deep fourth place and looking at losing -217 rating, would you rather go for the 1000 point cheap win to stymie your losses to -216 or go for the 0.1% yakuman hand that gets you into third place, where you only lose -7 rating? I'm not sure why you would ever consider the 1000 point hand?
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Jun 19, 2020 01:47
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Depending on the circumstances, you also have the possibility of the 3rd place player dealing into something and dropping below you, or the round drawing and getting to see another hand. I would never intentionally lock myself into 4th place, although I’m used to playing on Tenhou, where your +/- total at the end of the game is irrelevant, so winning a worthless hand when you’re in 4th changes nothing for your result. Even if the situation is truly dire, I feel like changing your loss from -100 to -99 is effectively irrelevant. It’s extremely likely that nothing you do at that point matters, so you might as well just avoid increasing the amount of suffering in the world by not pointlessly cutting the game short.
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Jun 19, 2020 02:14
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VgameT posted:Depending on the circumstances, you also have the possibility of the 3rd place player dealing into something and dropping below you, or the round drawing and getting to see another hand. I would never intentionally lock myself into 4th place, although I’m used to playing on Tenhou, where your +/- total at the end of the game is irrelevant, so winning a worthless hand when you’re in 4th changes nothing for your result. I mean, by the same logic, you could also deal into a high point hand and drop your -100 into a -120, so ending the game saves you from that scenario, or a more minor, but still relevant tsumo that could cost you points. If you are already hopelessly behind, sometimes its worth it to take a 1 or 2 han hand, since its better than doing nothing for the ratings. I wouldn't go out of my way to open the hand, but if that is all you get from a closed hand, there is no point in sitting it out. You can also get a slightly better situation if the dealer gets in tenpai with you.
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Jun 19, 2020 02:24
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