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41 rushes for 99 yards is some exquisite efficiency. No more, no less than what was needed to win. Excellent run establishment. +1 San Francisco
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Oct 15, 2019 06:09
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I'm a homer but also the niners ran the ball 99 yards right into/around/through aaron donald, corey littleton, and all the other stars of the Rams' much vaunted defensive line and linebacker corps. Whereas the Ravens trashed 0-6 Cinci. Certainly they ran more runs and more yards and got a bigger score, but... isn't it easy mode against the bengals?
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Oct 15, 2019 07:18
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well it seems to me the people who disagree that yards/ypc should be a distant third after attempts and ratio, should not even be allowed to vote at all. in fact yards should not even matter. I also should not be allowed to vote as a fan of the team in last place of establishing the run, and i shall not
Cavauro fucked around with this message at 08:14 on Oct 15, 2019 |
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Oct 15, 2019 08:11
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I’m gonna need some context to all those numbers. Like how hard did they have to work to establish the run, or was it just so easy to run from the start that the run was pre established by skill disparity?
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Oct 15, 2019 08:27
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We need some first half run ratios to figure out who is really establishing the run instead of racking up the garbage time rush attempts
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Oct 15, 2019 08:54
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Leperflesh posted:I'm a homer but also the niners ran the ball 99 yards right into/around/through aaron donald, corey littleton, and all the other stars of the Rams' much vaunted defensive line and linebacker corps. Whereas the Ravens trashed 0-6 Cinci. Certainly they ran more runs and more yards and got a bigger score, but... isn't it easy mode against the bengals? Strong argument. I vote Niners.
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Oct 15, 2019 11:59
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Vando posted:We need some first half run ratios to figure out who is really establishing the run instead of racking up the garbage time rush attempts We need a “rushing attempts while down” stat to augment the carry and ratio stats
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Oct 15, 2019 12:07
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Not that Washington deserves happiness or success or recognition, but I have to grudgingly admire Bill Callahan’s week. He said he was going to change things up and run the dang ball, and then he did so, securing the team’s first win* Not a vote for the Racists, just pointing it out. *against a team trying its hardest to lose, but still
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Oct 15, 2019 12:53
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I vote for the team whose quarterback outran every running back this week. 19 attempts for 152 yards is unbelievable for the guy that's supposed to be passing. Real commitment to the run here. +1 Baltimore
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Oct 15, 2019 14:22
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Docjowles posted:Not that Washington deserves happiness or success or recognition, but I have to grudgingly admire Bill Callahan’s week. He said he was going to change things up and run the dang ball, and then he did so, securing the team’s first win* Not a vote for the Racists, just pointing it out. Disqualified for racism.
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Oct 15, 2019 14:41
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Hizawk posted:Disqualified for racism.
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Oct 15, 2019 19:47
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deedee megadoodoo posted:I vote for the team whose quarterback outran every running back this week. 19 attempts for 152 yards is unbelievable for the guy that's supposed to be passing. Real commitment to the run here. Are these 19 planned runs, or 19 times they planned to pass but HAD to run. Seems being forced to run because you were going to pass is negative points.
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Oct 15, 2019 19:55
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deedee megadoodoo posted:I vote for the team whose quarterback outran every running back this week. 19 attempts for 152 yards is unbelievable for the guy that's supposed to be passing. Real commitment to the run here. I fully agree with this post. Another vote for Baltimore.
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Oct 15, 2019 19:55
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Votes: Baltimore 4 (Flikken, Shinji2015, deedee megadoodoo, ShadowedFlames) San Francisco 6 (Hizawk, Beethovens Fist Symphony, Leperflesh, Vincent Van Goatse, Athanatos) Will let it run through the day if anyone else wants to chime in.
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Oct 16, 2019 18:10
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I want to vote for Baltimore but I'm not really sure where I stand on QB rushes, especially ones that aren't designed runs but scrambles. Designed QB runs are legit (allows there to be more blockers which is rad) but a scramble is really like an incidental run and is thus worth a bit less. I'll go niners
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Oct 16, 2019 18:20
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Play posted:I want to vote for Baltimore but I'm not really sure where I stand on QB rushes, especially ones that aren't designed runs but scrambles. Designed QB runs are legit (allows there to be more blockers which is rad) but a scramble is really like an incidental run and is thus worth a bit less. A scramble is haram. It is the direct opposite of establishing the run.
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Oct 16, 2019 18:56
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A scramble is the game telling your team that they needed to have run instead of trying and failing to pass. In this respect, it is useful, because sometimes you need to be told repeatedly and harshly "run the drat ball, you fools." The direct opposite of establishing the run is the successful forward pass. It is a trap, a luxurious and false temptation, a deceptive illusion, a mirage in the desert that leads you to your doom. The successful forward pass creates the delusion that the run wasn't needed, the run was the slow way, the hard way, the old way, the obsolete way. What the temptation of the successful forward pass betrays is the inescapable fact that without the run, there can be no pass, for it is the establishment of the run that makes all offense possible. That is the essence of football.
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Oct 16, 2019 19:16
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Leperflesh posted:A scramble is the game telling your team that they needed to have run instead of trying and failing to pass. In this respect, it is useful, because sometimes you need to be told repeatedly and harshly "run the drat ball, you fools." Where do screens/pitches fall in this category?
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Oct 16, 2019 19:24
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The NFL statisticians categorize backwards passes and screens as runs. Essentially they are runs in which the player receiving the snap was not near enough to the player designed to run the ball to give them the ball directly - you could say they're a sort of aerial handoff. There are also impromptu pitches, such as occurs occasionally on the final play of a game in which a team desperately tries to keep a play alive. I submit that these are also categorically runs, albeit with an aerial component. For those who might disagree, consider: with this type of run, the ball being tossed in the air is not gaining the team yards and in fact, to avoid accidentally being a pass, typically loses the team some yards. The team is gambling a few yards away, against the potential for them to run the drat ball enough to make up for those lost yards. That is the same thing that happens with the classical run, in which the runner could be tackled behind the LOS for a loss. Compare to the forward pass, in which the incomplete pass does not lose the team any yards (and also stops the clock). The forward pass is the safety blanket cheap easy mode; the run is the tough, serious, hard mode of football, in which you must start from behind and then press forward well enough to wind up ahead. There is a fuzzy area here: screen passes that are technically forward passes, but where the receiver catches the ball behind the LOS. These are catalogued as passes, but they carry the same risk as the run: the receiver, tackled on the spot, will have lost the team yards - the play is only counted as successful if the receiver advances by running the drat ball. Does that mean the forward-pass-behind-the-LOS screen is a Run and therefore Good? I'm not sure, I think it's open for debate. Perhaps one factor against it is that the team cannot allow its linemen to block for such a screen pass, since they must remain behind the LOS to avoid an ineligible man down field penalty. On the other hand, having your wide receivers run block is cool and good... Leperflesh fucked around with this message at 19:34 on Oct 16, 2019 |
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Oct 16, 2019 19:31
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hierarchy from best to worst: 4th down run Fullback run 3rd down run Gap/Power run Zone run Pitch of any kind so long as its backwards Designed quarterback run Option run (wishbone or otherwise) Sweeps (hand off) Screen pass Sweeps (forward pitch) Underneath forward pitch Quarterback scramble . . . . . [...] Pass Flea flicker (unconscionable deception)
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Oct 16, 2019 19:54
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Going with the Niners this week, swayed by the 'actually good opposition' and 'committed to the run while result was still in doubt' metrics
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Oct 16, 2019 21:59
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Play posted:hierarchy from best to worst: Half back option pass is actually the worst play. The runner is supposed to run and instead chooses to throw? Tragedy
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Oct 17, 2019 04:18
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All of you are wrong, a field goal is the final abandonment of the run. It is betraying the part of the body made for running and forcing it to pass the ball. Sins and blasphemies, blasphemies and sins
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Oct 17, 2019 05:53
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We have established that QB scrambles are bad and should not be rewarded with this weeks champion. We have also established that if the run is not working at all, and you keep running anyway, you win. Week 1: The Minnesota Vikings - 46 Attempts for 265 yards, and a 3.80 Run/Pass Ratio Week 2: The San Francisco 49ers - 42 Run Attempts for 259 yards, and a 1.62 Run/Pass Ratio Week 3: The Minnesota Vikings - 38 Attempts for 211 yards, and a 1.81 Run/Pass Ratio Week 4: The Philadelphia Eagles - 33 Attempts for 176 yards, and a 1.22 Run/Pass Ratio Week 5: The Indianapolis Colts - 45 Attempts for 180 yards, and a 1.50 Run/Pass Ratio Week 6: The San Francisco 49ers - 42 Run Attempts for 99 yards, and a 1.24 Run/Pass Ratio Divisions: NFC North: 2 NFC West: 2 NFC East: 1 AFC South: 1 Everyone Else: 0
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Oct 17, 2019 06:23
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It seems kind of shameful that the winning team this week ran a flea flicker.
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Oct 17, 2019 06:46
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We can build the correct model. We can establish establishing the run
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Oct 17, 2019 08:18
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Play posted:hierarchy from best to worst: I don't understand why the option run is so low in the hierarchy when you run the triple option, you are not only committing to establishing the run, you are committing so thoroughly that you are willing to have multiple ball carriers on a single play, despite numerous fumble risks in doing so that should be worth extra points if anything
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Oct 17, 2019 08:38
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Play posted:hierarchy from best to worst: FB dive isn’t #1, list invalid.
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Oct 17, 2019 13:51
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It's called a RUNNING BACK for a reason. A RB running behind a beautiful, strong, stocky, sonofagun fullback is the way the game was intended to be played. As Spike famously said, POWER I.
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Oct 17, 2019 14:48
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Where does the RB draw fit in? Is momentarily faking a pass deceptive hubris, or is it a Tantalus-like punishment for those who would throw the ball (and also the defense)
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Oct 17, 2019 15:11
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fartknocker posted:FB dive isn’t #1, list invalid. A fullback dive on 4th down is the holiest run as you can see, but yeah there are two schools of thinking there about whether the down or the personnel should be the determining factor. Both are acceptable so long as the order is correct PupsOfWar posted:I don't understand why the option run is so low in the hierarchy The ball travels through the air on a lot of those plays. Even if it goes backwards it's still highly suspicious mastershakeman posted:Half back option pass is actually the worst play. The runner is supposed to run and instead chooses to throw? Tragedy You are entirely correct. I will amend our promotional materials
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Oct 17, 2019 17:04
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Athanatos posted:We have established that QB scrambles are bad and should not be rewarded with this weeks champion. We have also established that if the run is not working at all, and you keep running anyway, you win. Just to be clear, I think the niners' YPC went way down in the 4th quarter when their aim was to run down the clock more than to try and score. There were a bunch of up the gut for 0 yard plays in their last three drives. You could say that if the run has been working and you are winning the game with the run, keep running to keep being the winner?
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Oct 17, 2019 18:31
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Quarterback sneaks make me cry. They're like the scene at the end of the Hidden Fortress where the bad guy switches sides.
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Oct 17, 2019 23:40
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The only honest play is a direct snap to a fullback or nose tackle.
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Oct 18, 2019 01:20
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Wrong thread
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Oct 18, 2019 01:41
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Leperflesh posted:Just to be clear, I think the niners' YPC went way down in the 4th quarter when their aim was to run down the clock more than to try and score. There were a bunch of up the gut for 0 yard plays in their last three drives. Are QB kneels in the Victory formation counted as negative rushing yards? If an offense has established the run to where the opponent is down by 9 points with a minute thirty to go and no time outs and the offense is in that tight standing V, they should not be punished for negative yardage. CannonFodder fucked around with this message at 02:56 on Oct 18, 2019 |
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Oct 18, 2019 02:54
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Play posted:hierarchy from best to worst: I would posit that the typical fullback run these days, when he's in front of the running back and gets a surprise quick handoff, involves trickery that lessens its standing in the hierarchy. Lining up in I and ramming it down the D's throat even as they know it's coming is more worthy. Basically this Hizawk posted:It's called a RUNNING BACK for a reason.
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Oct 18, 2019 11:00
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Elephanthead posted:The only honest play is a direct snap to a fullback or nose tackle. Can we switch to back yard flag football rules where the "QB" snaps the ball to himself? A big fat center just picking up the ball and lumbering forward for 1 yard, pushed from behind by the QB and running backs, might be the purest possible manifestation of The Run.
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Oct 18, 2019 15:14
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Has the thread discussed the topic of those little jet sweep actions that are only technically a pass? Obviously since the ball does travel forward they are haram, but as far as passes go, certainly they must rank near screen passes for being the least evil.
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Oct 20, 2019 18:30
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The ball probably travels less than a yard in the air. To me, it’s a pass in name only. It’s functionally a run and using a receiver to boot. Now what if you could time it so the qb never gets the ball. Just snap it directly to the runner as he cuts in front of the QB. That’s a good run.
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Oct 20, 2019 18:38
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