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Yashichi posted:Emailing back to find out what "Holidays: N/A" means. lol Beefeater1980 posted:Asking for too much is very rarely wrong. I was once contacted by a recruiter to move to a job in Saudi, which is somewhere I would absolutely hate to go. I told her I wouldn’t even think of it for less than 500k USD base salary, which was my “make up a ridiculous number” at the time (by memory, about 2.2-2.5x what I was then on as a mid level lawyer). Killed that offer but apparently it caused the hiring manager to go back and ask for more first, and the same recruiter suddenly started finding me more senior roles with a much higher base. That in turn gave me a much better batna when I eventually did move. This post is cool and good and I feel bad about such a lovely snipe. 
Eric the Mauve fucked around with this message at 21:19 on Oct 11, 2019 |
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Oct 11, 2019 21:09
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Yashichi posted:Finally got the written offer! Pay is what was previously discussed but the rest is incoherent. Emailing back to find out what "Holidays: N/A" means. Other company reached out to tell me they will let me know about an offer by Tuesday morning. Will update with final outcome around then. Yashichi posted:Applied math. It's been a rough search, I originally planned on going into academia (lol) so I didn't do any industry internships or non-teaching positions.
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Oct 11, 2019 22:56
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Dik Hz posted:It means you're contract labor and only get paid for the hours you work. I am curious if he would even be an employee. If he is 1099 that offer gets worse by the second.
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Oct 11, 2019 23:02
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Has anyone ever heard of strict pay bands in the private sector? My Company B apparently has those. I've never come across it outside government.
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Oct 11, 2019 23:22
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Drink and Fight posted:Has anyone ever heard of strict pay bands in the private sector? My Company B apparently has those. I've never come across it outside government. I’ve heard companies claiming it.
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Oct 11, 2019 23:24
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Jordan7hm posted:I’ve heard companies claiming it. Plenty. Applied Materials, TEL, and Lam Research definitely had them, with the caveat that the indispensable would simply be given a basically made up title in whatever pay band justified their pay and to keep the banding metrics reasonable. It was basically an attempt to suppress wages in the majority as you would expect.
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Oct 11, 2019 23:28
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Drink and Fight posted:Has anyone ever heard of strict pay bands in the private sector? My Company B apparently has those. I've never come across it outside government. Edit: To provide more context: I'm in STEM and a fresh grad can get ~$45-55k in my field. It's 6-12 months to train them and find out if they're useful. Another 2-4 years to learn the soft skills and how the business works. If they successfully do do that, they're worth $65-85k. Pay bands are designed to keep those people at the $50k level. FWIW, most people don't leave and just accept being underpaid. Dik Hz fucked around with this message at 23:40 on Oct 11, 2019 |
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Oct 11, 2019 23:33
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Tim Thomas posted:Plenty. Applied Materials, TEL, and Lam Research definitely had them, with the caveat that the indispensable would simply be given a basically made up title in whatever pay band justified their pay and to keep the banding metrics reasonable. It was basically an attempt to suppress wages in the majority as you would expect. The big 4 do the same thing with consulting but the band size makes it a bit pointless. I did get the “well our band is x and you’re in the upper half” at my performance review this year when I said I didn’t like the raise that came with my promotion.
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Oct 11, 2019 23:34
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My company has that. Every line of service and vertical has their pay matrix. Anyone with your exact title, e.g. Associate 2C, would make exactly the same as you.
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Oct 11, 2019 23:34
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I’ve never seen it all that strictly applied but many places do at least claim to have one.
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Oct 12, 2019 00:00
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Beefeater1980 posted:I’ve never seen it all that strictly applied but many places do at least claim to have one.
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Oct 12, 2019 00:27
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Drink and Fight posted:Has anyone ever heard of strict pay bands in the private sector? My Company B apparently has those. I've never come across it outside government. Yeah, this is the Radford or other pay band thing. It's bullshit for keeping IC salaries low. If they really want you this does't apply anymore.
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Oct 12, 2019 02:40
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Fireside Nut posted:I should be talking with them shortly so I’ll let the thread know how I turns out. No matter what, I already negotiated up 7k (which is magnified in the bonus and 6% 401k match) and will end up above market for the area, so I can take some solace in knowing that’s a win. Quick update: Company A basically said they already had to have special permission to get up to 98k so 102k was a no go. However, they did agree to front loading 5 vacation days out of the gate - so woohoo for negotiating that! The big shocking twist is that I contacted Company B I had been interviewing with to let them know I had an offer. I had thrown out 125k (roughly +10-15% market) early in the discussion knowing there was likely no way they’d get there but they really wanted me so I anchored high. They were creating the department/position from scratch and actually managed to get that number approved. So, Company B will likely be passing along that offer but it might not be ready for another week or two. I need to get back to company A tomorrow. I know I need out of my current gig, so is there any harm in accepting company A, putting in my mandatory 4 weeks notice at my current place, and then, if company B comes through, backing out on company A before I start there? I mean they weren’t able to get to exactly where I wanted salary wise so I feel that’s a good way to explain backing out without really burning bridges? Basically saying I’m sorry but I received an offer I can’t turn down that meets my salary requirements. Thanks again to everyone for your 
Fireside Nut fucked around with this message at 18:08 on Oct 13, 2019 |
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Oct 13, 2019 17:58
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Fireside Nut posted:Quick update: Your plan is fine. Even if A got to 102 - “look I’m sorry but I received another offer that’s 25% higher. I’m going to take that.” If there are hard feelings that’s on them not you.
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Oct 13, 2019 18:10
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Jordan7hm posted:Your plan is fine. Thank you! I appreciate the confirmation I wasn’t going to go about things the wrong way. 
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Oct 13, 2019 18:24
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Yep. Go ahead and take Company A's $98K, and if the $125K offer materializes (or, more likely, "we couldn't quite get approval for $125K but we can offer $115K") then you tell Company A "hey, no hard feelings but I just yesterday received a vastly better offer that I am compelled to accept, bye." They had their chance.
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Oct 13, 2019 18:25
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Eric the Mauve posted:Yep. Go ahead and take Company A's $98K, and if the $125K offer materializes (or, more likely, "we couldn't quite get approval for $125K but we can offer $115K") then you tell Company A "hey, no hard feelings but I just yesterday received a vastly better offer that I am compelled to accept, bye." Awesome - thanks again. Even if Company B doesn’t work out, Company A has a bonus that generally averages 15-26% so it’s still pretty competitive, but not guaranteed. No matter what, this thread and the interview thread have helped me ensure I can maintain my above market rate and leave an extremely lovely situation. 
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Oct 13, 2019 19:00
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Drink and Fight posted:Has anyone ever heard of strict pay bands in the private sector? My Company B apparently has those. I've never come across it outside government. Yup. Everything below senior VP has a grade, pay band, and bonus target. I have an employee at the top of his pay band. He gets a tiny raise because I can't make it higher in the system. He knows why. All the grades and pay bands are published on our Intranet. Investor owned, traded on the Nasdaq. spwrozek fucked around with this message at 02:25 on Oct 14, 2019 |
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Oct 14, 2019 02:21
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spwrozek posted:Yup. Everything below senior VP has a grade, pay band, and bonus target. I have an employee at the top of his pay band. He gets a tiny raise because I can't make it higher in the system. He knows why. All the grades and pay bands are published on our Intranet. 
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Oct 14, 2019 02:24
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^lol yesDik Hz posted:Every time I've heard about them, it's only applied to individual contributors or junior employees. It's largely a ploy to try to pay below market rate. What type of STEM and where? My engineers out of school will be a minimum $65k. That is crazy low. I can barely find people to take it.
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Oct 14, 2019 02:24
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Asimov posted:Here's a red-hot negotiating tip that many people know, but a surprising number of people haven't practiced. When negotiating verbally, know how to use silence. It sounds simple and in many ways it is, but some people aren't good at public speaking or get nervous when talking to someone and fail at this all the time. Saying nothing and having a pause in the conversation can have just as much significance as saying words. Props to asimov on this advice Had an interview last week and I heard back from the recruiter two days later that he got good feedback, and I could either work contract to perm in the short term or come in for a second round of interviews. This possibility was never communicated to me, because I am 0% interested in a contract gig, and I would not have bothered with a multi-round interview process as my banked PTO hours are somewhere around -38 right now and I can't afford to take 2+ days off per interview prospect. In short I told him that I was expecting an offer or a pass on a full time role, not a contract or additional interviewing, and I was very extremely not pleased with this outcome. I ghosted the guy for a few days and it turns out they're "putting together a fulltime offer" for me now. Weird, right?
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Oct 14, 2019 17:14
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Congrats, nice going.
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Oct 14, 2019 20:18
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spwrozek posted:^lol yes
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Oct 14, 2019 20:23
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I was paid an annual bonus of $18,000 to lead a project which ended up saving the company $1.5M annually. Now, with the project ending, the department has indicated it would no longer like to pay me that bonus, which had been incorporated into my base salary. My wife does not want to leave the area, and because of a non-compete (which has been viciously enforced by courts as recently as the last 12 months) the closest jobs I can take are > 50 miles away from my home. Short of blowing my life up, how do I convince my employer not to cut my pay $18,000?
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Oct 15, 2019 18:24
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"Hey honey, you know how there is only one job within 50 miles that I can work at? Now there are zero jobs within 50 miles I can work at. What can we do about that?" If that sounds like an unpleasant conversation, you gotta fight the non-compete instead. I do not think it is remotely tenable to continue working somewhere that lies to your face and you're gonna show them they can do it repeatedly if you acquiesce. How much does the non-compete pay? What state? I'm kinda rolling to disbelieve they can enforce it without paying you your salary, but I also don't think it's good for your career to stay in a location that only has one job you can work at. Even if you magically convince them to pay you this time, it's an unsustainable situation - they can keep handing you bowls of poo poo and you have to keep eating them. Are you friends with the person who they enforced the non-compete on, is that how you know? Give them a ring and ask to talk about their case, what angle they used in court, etc. They might well be eager to help someone else who wants to tell that employer to gently caress off. When a company decided not to pay me a big bonus, but I had a reason to stay a few months more(signing bonus 1-year clawback), I became a very different sort of employee. Suddenly I managed to leave at 5 every day. Somehow projects dates started getting moved around, scheduled to be finished after my 1-year mark. Looking for apartments used to be stressful because I work all day but now, take a 30 minute train at 2 in the afternoon during work? No problem. It was a weird few months.
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Oct 15, 2019 18:30
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EAT FASTER!!!!!! posted:I was paid an annual bonus of $18,000 to lead a project which ended up saving the company $1.5M annually. Now, with the project ending, the department has indicated it would no longer like to pay me that bonus, which had been incorporated into my base salary. So they basically want you to do the same job and take a $18k pay cut?
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Oct 15, 2019 18:34
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spwrozek posted:So they basically want you to do the same job and take a $18k pay cut? They have him by the balls via the noncompete (if it's accurate that he lives somewhere that it's actually enforceable) so of course they're going to do whatever they want to him. Jeffrey's right, if he meekly accepts it now then they know they own him and will abuse him however they feel like. Painful lesson about to be learned: don't ever sign a noncompete if it's actually enforceable and you're married to someone who refuses to move away.
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Oct 15, 2019 19:14
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Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:How much does the non-compete pay? What state? I'm kinda rolling to disbelieve they can enforce it without paying you your salary, but I also don't think it's good for your career to stay in a location that only has one job you can work at. Even if you magically convince them to pay you this time, it's an unsustainable situation - they can keep handing you bowls of poo poo and you have to keep eating them. Are you friends with the person who they enforced the non-compete on, is that how you know? Give them a ring and ask to talk about their case, what angle they used in court, etc. They might well be eager to help someone else who wants to tell that employer to gently caress off. 2 years and 50 miles, it's a physician non-compete. It's in Iowa. I'm an anesthesiologist and we're from Eastern Iowa, I work at the academic medical center. I dont know anyone personally who they enforced the non-compete on, but recent court decisions have held that certain kinds of physician non-compete contracts are valid in our state. Everyone who works at my institution has to sign one. I might be more exempt because I'm "just" a service provider, but on the other hand the damages they could claim might be pretty expensive.
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Oct 15, 2019 19:40
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Okay. I personally would consult a lawyer experienced in non-competes in your state. I don't know the details and I thought you might, but there is a lot of room for it to remain unenforceable even if others are upheld. Googling stuff, I know less than I thought I did, but I know the non-competes I've signed have all made it clear that I will receive my salary for the duration of the non-compete, and it's precisely so I cannot claim financial hardship and get them thrown out in court. Non-competes are something that piss me off and make me want to break them, so in your situation I'd be gearing up for a fight, but maybe the "in this 50 mile radius" clause is enough to waylay the "financial hardship" defense - mine were intended to be global. How long is the non-compete period?
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Oct 15, 2019 20:48
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Interviewed on Monday and they asked for a number/range which I declined to give. It was about 3 hours with three different and they said the next step is a follow up which would be project based and with the cfo - prob another two hours. This place is two hours away and Im not thrilled about working there regardless. Whats a likely outcome if they push them for a number before coming in again? The only reason im interviewing is to get a feel for a good market number. I dont want to move and i dont want to work at this company so my worst case is i dont get a number i would 99% decline anyways. Also when I declined to give them a number they said it was just to make sure my expectations werent too high and then they said “for instance, 150 we could never get to”. What if anything does that mean other than the obvious? Did they give away their high end - if so is what would you guess that at?
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Oct 15, 2019 23:35
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Keystoned posted:Interviewed on Monday and they asked for a number/range which I declined to give. It was about 3 hours with three different and they said the next step is a follow up which would be project based and with the cfo - prob another two hours. Have you checked out glassdoor or an h1b database to get any idea of what to expect? Do you know anyone making 150 in that job? It sounds like you haven't done your homework: you don't have any idea what they will say and don't know what you'd ask for to take that job.
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Oct 16, 2019 00:48
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Keystoned posted:The only reason im interviewing is to get a feel for a good market number. I dont want to move and i dont want to work at this company so my worst case is i dont get a number i would 99% decline anyways. Why not just ask them what their salary range is for the position?
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Oct 16, 2019 01:22
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Okay, I just found a very recent application they made for the exact position name for one I just got contacted by a recruiter for, that's going to be very good to know (although I will refuse to give them a number myself, and I also might have to adjust mentally for the lower cost-of-living in this area which is not SV). Thanks!
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Oct 16, 2019 02:52
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Got an interesting impasse coming up. I was hired through a recruiter at a new company, doing more-or-less the same thing that I was doing at my last company but for ~20% more. However, I'm technically working through the recruiter for a "contingency period" (note to the readers: NEVER EVER DO THIS. IT IS NOT EVEN CLOSE TO WORTH THE HEADACHE). As I should have expected, the contingency period is taking longer than the recruiter sold me on - he told me it'd 3-4 months, I'm getting the sense that it'll be more like 6-7 months (the contract has an upper limit of 8 months). During this time I get garbage benefits and I get paid through the recruiting company (the only positive side of which is that I get 1.5x my rate for weekly hours over 40, which is unheard of in engineering consulting). So, what it boils down to is that at some point in the next 1-4 months I'll very likely be offered a full time position at the company I've been working for. Should I treat this as a full-on negotiation, in that I should have alternate offers ready? My hiring was part of a geographic expansion effort that I believe that many people are loathe to see setbacks on - the position I took was open for a year and a half before I took it, and a few key personnel for the field I'm in have left in recent months, so I think I've got some very real leverage when that juncture arrives in terms of keeping the contracts we have moving forward. I expect they will slide me an offer at my current rate that they'll expect me to perfunctorily sign; is it inappropriate for me to renegotiate my rate at that point?
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Oct 16, 2019 03:20
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Not a Children posted:Got an interesting impasse coming up. I was hired through a recruiter at a new company, doing more-or-less the same thing that I was doing at my last company but for ~20% more. However, I'm technically working through the recruiter for a "contingency period" (note to the readers: NEVER EVER DO THIS. IT IS NOT EVEN CLOSE TO WORTH THE HEADACHE). As I should have expected, the contingency period is taking longer than the recruiter sold me on - he told me it'd 3-4 months, I'm getting the sense that it'll be more like 6-7 months (the contract has an upper limit of 8 months). During this time I get garbage benefits and I get paid through the recruiting company (the only positive side of which is that I get 1.5x my rate for weekly hours over 40, which is unheard of in engineering consulting). The whole contract to work thing is a bullshit endeavor designed to keep you from getting paid. gently caress you, give me my money.
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Oct 16, 2019 03:40
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Absurd Alhazred posted:Okay, I just found a very recent application they made for the exact position name for one I just got contacted by a recruiter for, that's going to be very good to know (although I will refuse to give them a number myself, and I also might have to adjust mentally for the lower cost-of-living in this area which is not SV). Thanks! Be sure to scroll down to Section F: Employment and Wage Information and click on the work locations. Most companies are smart enough to create fake titles/positions/whatever so the range they put is the exact salary they are requesting. The company I work for submits the complete pay band.
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Oct 16, 2019 04:22
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Non-compete dude: Talk to an employment lawyer in your state/area. It's going to depend on your state and court jurisdiction of course, but it is not unheard of for a company to lose the ability to enforce a NCA if they've made substantial changes to your employment terms and/or terminated your employment themselves. YMMV, IANAL, TTAL, etc. Get someone specific to your area because it can vary drastically from state to state. Example of the sort of thing I'm talking about : Imagine a circumstance in which you take a job, sign a NCA, and then suddenly they cut your pay to minimum wage and eliminate your vacation time. In reasonable jurisdictions, it doesn't matter if there was a contract because the employer clearly has not held up their end of it. Just because you have a NCA and it's been enforced before doesn't mean your circumstances are identical to the previous ones. Talk to a lawyer.
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Oct 16, 2019 04:48
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Sundae posted:Non-compete dude: Talk to an employment lawyer in your state/area. It's going to depend on your state and court jurisdiction of course, but it is not unheard of for a company to lose the ability to enforce a NCA if they've made substantial changes to your employment terms and/or terminated your employment themselves. YMMV, IANAL, TTAL, etc. Get someone specific to your area because it can vary drastically from state to state. FWIW, I've never heard of it working this way - but absolutely you should talk to a lawyer familiar with the precedent and ask them. For a non-compete, continued employment, in most jurisdictions, is not sufficient consideration - so employment is not a term of the non-compete. Here's a lawyer's blog post that says that, but also that it might make it easier to beat. https://www.texasnoncompetelaw.com/articles/noncompete-agreements/enforceable-if-fired/
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Oct 16, 2019 11:52
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My BATNA is a job offer that pays substantially more about 100 miles away. I emailed the other hospital yesterday to make sure it was still valid and got back a one word reply "absolutely" so that makes me feel a lot better. To be fair there's really only one other job within 50 miles I'd want to work and I don't even know that they're hiring, so my best move here (assuming they go ahead with reducing my pay) might be just to relocate and do the two cities thing until my original non-compete expires (a two year timeline). It doesn't help that our marriage is running on fumes; I think my current employer underestimated my willingness to blow my life here up in response to them trying to snip me.
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Oct 16, 2019 13:11
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Boot and Rally posted:Be sure to scroll down to Section F: Employment and Wage Information and click on the work locations. Most companies are smart enough to create fake titles/positions/whatever so the range they put is the exact salary they are requesting. The company I work for submits the complete pay band. Looking closely they had two filings, with one earlier this year for more than the more recent one. Their range is $Max to $0, so not very informative (other than the real band being possibly between the two numbers in the two separate applications).
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Oct 16, 2019 13:53
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