|
gh0stpinballa posted:i saw someone calling it "the fascism of commuter subjectivity" and "the herdlike mentality of bootlickers who love work", and not people who have enough poo poo to deal with in their lives and are at risk of being fired for tardiness getting pissed off that they're being squeezed from all sides because of things they have no control or influence over. it's false consciousness! it's false consciousness! i continue to insist as i slowly shrink and transform into an armchair e: gently caress's sake. again?? 
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2019 08:51
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 2, 2024 23:45 |
|
|
Sanitary Naptime posted:If the jobs these people are in are so precariously balanced on them never being late, then they’ve been one delayed train away from the sack the whole time. Or maybe that did happen and recently and they got a warning for it and now they are late again.
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2019 08:51
|
|
|
Sanitary Naptime posted:Yeah, it was dumb, but he didn’t need loving mob attacked over it. Or just simply not being paid for it, because they're hourly. No arguement with the bolded part though.
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2019 08:53
|
|
|
Dragging the trespassers off the roof is fair and commendable. Kicking the poo poo out of them afterward is uncalled for and should be condemned.
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2019 08:54
|
|
|
Chucat posted:On Monday they blocked the roads of Bank that are used primarily by buses. I don't get the reasoning behind making commuters who use public transport hate them but they seem good at it. London has pretty good, though expensive, public transport so any action that disrupts traffic is inevitably going to affect public transport. The reason is a leadership which systematically and continuously ignores the lessons of previous protest movements and advice from experienced organizers because "XR is different (we're not poor)".
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2019 08:55
|
|
|
Sanitary Naptime posted:Yeah, it was dumb, but he didn’t need loving mob attacked over it. I've mostly been behind XRs actions but its still colossally dumb to try and blockade working class people using a quite green form of travel and just blaming "well its the countries fault for having such bad job security" isnt a get out clause. They were dumb for doing it and you were dumb for calling the people 'cops' for getting angry at them. If they were glueing themselves to planes in Heathrow they may garner more support. Mega Comrade fucked around with this message at 09:09 on Oct 17, 2019 |
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2019 08:56
|
|
|
Sanitary Naptime posted:If the jobs these people are in are so precariously balanced on them never being late, then they’ve been one delayed train away from the sack the whole time. even if they don't get fired there's a strong liklihood they will need to make up the time, which has a knock on effect and means they could miss GP appointments, picking up their kids, etc etc. if the booj prancing around on top of the train wants to work those 2 hours or whatever for all the people affected then it's fine. if not then maybe XR should purge the undercover cops and develop an actual ideological framework that doesn't make them look like comfortable middle class people punching down at that well known polluter, the uh working class commuter.
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2019 08:57
|
|
|
gh0stpinballa posted:i saw someone calling it "the fascism of commuter subjectivity" and "the herdlike mentality of bootlickers who love work", and not people who have enough poo poo to deal with in their lives and are at risk of being fired for tardiness getting pissed off that they're being squeezed from all sides because of things they have no control or influence over. XR are dogshit and this action this morning was, at best, extremely poorly thought out - have XR ever done anything to directly hinder BP or Shell or similar? if XR are worth a poo poo they should take what happened this morning and quickly start to include even a little class consciousness into their future actions
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2019 08:59
|
|
|
Mega Comrade posted:If they were glueing themselves to planes in Heathrow they may g
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2019 09:00
|
|
|
Sanitary Naptime posted:If the jobs these people are in are so precariously balanced on them never being late, then they’ve been one delayed train away from the sack the whole time. Well yeah, such is life under capitalism
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2019 09:05
|
|
|
Luxury Tent Carpet posted:XR are dogshit and this action this morning was, at best, extremely poorly thought out - have XR ever done anything to directly hinder BP or Shell or similar? hell yeah
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2019 09:06
|
|
|
V.late but hail to the new idiot king Please retain CB's casual and arbitrary brutality, please do it more consistently But not to me
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2019 09:09
|
|
|
I'm not coming at this from the angle of "how do flies get caught?". Just that dragging this guy off the roof is fair. I think some of their protests were good. Near the beginning, standing in the commons gallery naked was an absolute corker. Maybe people in the cities had already heard of them by this point, but for me and my peers in buttfuck nowhere closest to Lincoln this was the first we saw of them. It got the message out.
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2019 09:21
|
|
|
As much as the commuters attacking the boy after he kicked the guy trying to get him off the train was, what was their actual expectation of what would happen? Some kind of Spart movement with everyone there having a lecture by him and spontaneously joining a climate strike? There’s a reason why when the tube workers go on strike they give notice to the public - to allow them to make alternative arrangements to try and keep them on side. XR in being tone-deaf and poo poo with no understanding of the daily grind of being a worker shocker.
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2019 09:21
|
|
|
Employment laws are an absolute fucken joke and I only found this out after being here 7 odd years. One of our drivers got a pinched nerve in his shoulder cos well, kegs are heavy and we don't use drivers mates. At first I was like eh whatever, sick pay will sort him out. Then he starts calling me up saying its only like £90 a week and I'm thinking what the gently caress how are you supposed to live on that in London. Anyway I moved heaven and earth to get that guy in on light duties for as long as I could, making up bullshit busywork. Eventually he convinced his doctor to let him back and I gave him the easiest runs I could and its all good now but christ, I was worried sick about him for ages. It made me realise that in these industries where we don't have university degrees (useful ones at least) and we make our living with our bodies that we're all one broken arm away from homelessness if we don't have a solid support network. Yeah you might have family to lean on if you're a Brit, but someone like me only has my partner (both immigrants, our salaries are identical) to fall back on. It did shift my politics to the left and I was already pretty drat leftie.
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2019 09:22
|
|
|
Mega Comrade posted:I've mostly been behind XRs actions but its still colossally dumb to try and blockade working class people using a quite green form of travel and just blaming "well its the countries fault for having such bad job security" isnt a get out clause. They were dumb for doing it and you were dumb for calling the people 'cops' for getting angry at them. I think if they killed fossil fuel CEOs they'd get a ton of support.
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2019 09:26
|
|
|
Azza Bamboo posted:Dragging the trespassers off the roof is fair and commendable. Azza has the core of it right Mega Comrade posted:I've mostly been behind XRs actions but its still colossally dumb to try and blockade working class people using a quite green form of travel and just blaming "well its the countries fault for having such bad job security" isnt a get out clause. They were dumb for doing it and you were dumb for calling the people 'cops' for getting angry at them. Getting angry at them is fair, I’d be pissed off too. I’m calling them cops for beating the poo poo out of them, as cops are wont to do. XR are poo poo and don’t know how to do protest, and the monkeys paw clearly curled when we said “they should be doing direct action rather than inviting themselves to the police station”
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2019 09:28
|
|
|
Barry Foster posted:V.late but hail to the new idiot king Agreed! Please eat other people's faces and not mine ty 
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2019 09:28
|
|
|
Azza Bamboo posted:Dragging the trespassers off the roof is fair and commendable. I'm disappointed by the number of posters in this thread complaining about police informants being done over.
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2019 09:29
|
|
|
el dingo posted:Employment laws are an absolute fucken joke and I only found this out after being here 7 odd years. One of our drivers got a pinched nerve in his shoulder cos well, kegs are heavy and we don't use drivers mates. At first I was like eh whatever, sick pay will sort him out. Then he starts calling me up saying its only like £90 a week and I'm thinking what the gently caress how are you supposed to live on that in London. Anyway I moved heaven and earth to get that guy in on light duties for as long as I could, making up bullshit busywork. Eventually he convinced his doctor to let him back and I gave him the easiest runs I could and its all good now but christ, I was worried sick about him for ages. which is why everyone should be extremely loving suspicious of an activist group that explicitly forbids forming socialist affiliates but has groups like XR landlords and XR police
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2019 09:30
|
|
|
Jedit posted:I'm disappointed by the number of posters in this thread complaining about police informants being done over.
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2019 09:31
|
|
|
Jedit posted:I'm disappointed by the number of posters in this thread complaining about police informants being done over. The problem with XR is that they’re capable of attracting people who might want to do some direct action and aren’t necessarily experienced with any of it. As babbys first political experience they’re liable to ruin the idea for a lot of people through their ineffectiveness and bootlicking, who would otherwise come into a better developed and more coherent political sphere had they gone elsewhere. E: not to mention that it’s a very centralised organisation and I’m wary of saying that everyone involved is a police informant until I know that they wrote a thank you letter to the jailer or whatever dumb twee poo poo they think is a good idea
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2019 09:32
|
|
|
gh0stpinballa posted:which is why everyone should be extremely loving suspicious of an activist group that explicitly forbids forming socialist affiliates but has groups like XR landlords and XR police I had to check this for myself and lmao
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2019 09:37
|
|
|
Sanitary Naptime posted:Imagine being that angry about not being able to get into work that you start attacking someone. Speaking as someone who used to be a temp and was only paid for time spent in work - no holiday pay, no sick pay - and as one of only two people to make it into my work in central London after the Great Storm of 1987 having walked several miles from North London, clambering over fallen trees and all sorts, and going into work when I was really ill (one time a non-temp flatmate booked a day's annual leave herself to force me stay home after I collapsed in the shower in the morning) I can sort of understand the anger. (Ed: to be clear I don't support the mob mentality at all but as someone else said, there's probably provocateurs working things up in there). Jaeluni Asjil fucked around with this message at 09:43 on Oct 17, 2019 |
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2019 09:41
|
|
|
gh0stpinballa posted:which is why everyone should be extremely loving suspicious of an activist group that explicitly forbids forming socialist affiliates but has groups like XR landlords and XR police Ah but you see socialists is politics whereas landlords is not politics because
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2019 09:41
|
|
|
Jaeluni Asjil posted:Speaking as someone who used to be a temp and was only paid for time spent in work - no holiday pay, no sick pay - and as one of only two people to make it into my work in central London after the Great Storm of 1987 having walked several miles from North London, clambering over fallen trees and all sorts, and going into work when I was really ill (one time a non-temp flatmate booked a day's annual leave herself to force me stay home after I collapsed in the shower in the morning) I can sort of understand the anger. Sounds like your anger would have been directed at the wrong people then 
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2019 09:42
|
|
|
Oh wow XR police and XR landlords are actually real.
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2019 09:42
|
|
|
Jaeluni Asjil posted:Speaking as someone who used to be a temp and was only paid for time spent in work - no holiday pay, no sick pay - and as one of only two people to make it into my work in central London after the Great Storm of 1987 having walked several miles from North London, clambering over fallen trees and all sorts, and going into work when I was really ill (one time a non-temp flatmate booked a day's annual leave herself to force me stay home after I collapsed in the shower in the morning) I can sort of understand the anger. Yeah, I get being angry, but so angry that you start to beat the poo poo out of someone just seems a bit too much. Maybe I just don’t like violence unless the receivers of it are oppressing on behalf of the state or something 
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2019 09:43
|
|
|
Eschenique posted:Oh wow XR police and XR landlords are actually real. I'm not surprised landlords are rebelling against extinction when a bunch of us are calling for it 
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2019 09:44
|
|
|
Can't turn an easy buck if all your potential tenants are dead
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2019 09:46
|
|
|
Sanitary Naptime posted:Yeah, I get being angry, but so angry that you start to beat the poo poo out of someone just seems a bit too much. Maybe I just don’t like violence unless the receivers of it are oppressing on behalf of the state or something No I don't support the beatings up. JeremoudCorbynejad posted:Sounds like your anger would have been directed at the wrong people then It's just generalized anger. The sort of anger you get when, say, you're hourly paid and the tube is busting with people and you try to get on anyway and some twat tries to stop you getting on when it's 15 mins to the next train and you just know that will be just as full and you seriously cannot afford to be 30 mins late for work because (a) you lose that pay and (b) the company you're working for will tell the agency you are late and unbook you and lose you further work. Jaeluni Asjil fucked around with this message at 09:50 on Oct 17, 2019 |
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2019 09:47
|
|
|
Sanitary Naptime posted:Yeah, I get being angry, but so angry that you start to beat the poo poo out of someone just seems a bit too much. Maybe I just don’t like violence unless the receivers of it are oppressing on behalf of the state or something  ThomasPaine posted:Can't turn an easy buck if all your potential tenants are dead
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2019 09:50
|
|
|
Sanitary Naptime posted:Yeah, I get being angry, but so angry that you start to beat the poo poo out of someone just seems a bit too much. Maybe I just don’t like violence unless the receivers of it are oppressing on behalf of the state or something It would have been interesting to see the response if it was an actively non-violent protest, just sitting calmly on the roof and waiting until they get removed rather than engaging - guessing it wouldn't have ended that way.
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2019 09:52
|
|
|
CGI Stardust posted:Crowd psychology in times of stress in certainly A Thing worth studying on the left, it's not like it's completely unpredictable. Also kicking the climbing guy off probably didn't help deescalate, I can't off the top of my head think of a better way to inflame things; either they're massively inexperienced and should never have been up there or it was an active provocation. Copying my post from discord: The thing that’s pissing me off the most about this is that the failure of XR to engage with experienced groups could have avoided what could just be a couple of passionate but not exactly great thinking people concerned about climate change being beat the gently caress up, because they would have told them ”don’t do this it’s real loving dumb”
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2019 09:56
|
|
|
Sanitary Naptime posted:Copying my post from discord:
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2019 10:03
|
|
|
Ugh, this whole thing is stupid and I hate it. XR have so many resources and could do so much good if they directed them against capital. Ugh.
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2019 10:03
|
|
|
CGI Stardust posted:Yep, agreed. There's institutional knowledge on the left, and it's either a) being ignored because liberals know better, surely this will work with us doing it or b) they're deliberately doing it wrong, and at this point I have no idea which. For a long time I assumed it was column A, but after reading about them blocking socialists while having XR Cops and XR Landlords it's probably column B.
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2019 10:05
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/marthasadie/status/1184730811175702528?s=19 https://twitter.com/marthasadie/status/1184731909353549825?s=19
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2019 10:09
|
|
|
Uup appear to have changed their mind https://twitter.com/StephenNolan/status/1184752518225641472?s=19
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2019 10:11
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 2, 2024 23:45 |
|
|
Rarity posted:Ugh, this whole thing is stupid and I hate it. XR have so many resources and could do so much good if they directed them against capital. Ugh.
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2019 10:14
|
|