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They tried that with a $5/mo (I think) subscription for double click. Abandoned pretty quick if I'm remembering right. And you still got ads from other networks.
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Oct 17, 2019 21:50
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One of the things that stuck with me from a previous job, which involved a business management/order tracking/accounting kinda application, is that they used doubles for all quantities and monetary amounts, and used a custom rounding function that involved calling the built-in ToString method on the doubles. Somehow they seemed to get away with it, idk.
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Oct 17, 2019 21:58
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Carbon dioxide posted:As far as I know, for certain things they actually use integers to represent something like one hundredth of a cent. For stock interests and stuff those amounts might add up and be relevant. They did this in Superman III.
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Oct 17, 2019 22:08
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Suspicious Dish posted:They did this in Superman III.
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Oct 17, 2019 22:12
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It's also the plot of some office movie that I can't remember the name of, I think it had Kevin Spacey in it. fe: I think hackers did this too
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Oct 17, 2019 22:13
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Carbon dioxide posted:There's an infamous and most probably fake story about that, claiming that someone once hacked a bank so that for every of the billions of transactions happening each day, a sub-cent amount was taken out of the transaction and transferred from the sender to the hacker's bank account instead of to the recipient and because none of the normal bank computer views showed those precise amounts it took the bank ages to discover this. Salami Slicing is the general term. Before the S3/Office Space, there was the Cash song "One piece at a time"
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Oct 17, 2019 22:20
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Ola posted:I don't remember how I heard this, maybe I dreamed it up myself, but is it true that banks etc do calculation and storage using integers only as cents? So $100.07 is stored as 10007 cents and only converted into dollars and cents in the presentation layer. Here’s an example with Reuters, so you have a base integer and a hint value indicating a fixed transform as either an exponent or fraction for pre-decimalization type junk (US government bonds still I think). https://github.com/Refinitiv/Elektron-SDK/blob/master/Cpp-C/Eta/Include/Codec/rtr/rsslReal.h Only for the network wire format. Most code I have seen will just convert to a double for convenience for internal usage.
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Oct 17, 2019 22:41
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So why do banks not just use bignum or arbitrary precision already?
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Oct 18, 2019 00:19
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Ola posted:Thanks, kind of hoping I made it up myself now so I actually came up with a good idea even if it was half a century late. And ad pricing reminds me of another one, I should just be able to pay Google $25 per year for an ad free internet. Luckily you can't. They control a lot of it, but not that much. Also luckily you don't have to. Install an adblocker on your browser, pihole on your network and you should be mostly fine.
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Oct 18, 2019 00:31
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Space Whale posted:So why do banks not just use bignum or arbitrary precision already? PICTURE IS "$ZZZ,ZZZ,ZZZV99" has always done that.
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Oct 18, 2019 00:33
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nm
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Oct 18, 2019 00:41
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Space Whale posted:So why do banks not just use bignum or arbitrary precision already? They're not working with very big numbers, mathematically speaking. You could probably store the sum of all the money in the world in one long. And they don't have very peculiar demands for precision in the numeric sense, but correctness in the accounting sense. I know currency trading uses fractions of cents, probably some other stuff does as well, but actually settling the trading accounts is probably done in regular money. And perhaps most importantly, many banks run very old systems which they are reluctant to replace. If I built a bank today, I'd probably go the integer route. Why not? It's probably way faster as well. I'm sure I'd get plenty of head scratching edge cases with currency exchange and percentage calculation from interest rates, but that would only make the work day fun. Volguus posted:Luckily you can't. They control a lot of it, but not that much. Also luckily you don't have to. Install an adblocker on your browser, pihole on your network and you should be mostly fine. Oh I ad block, believe me. Sometimes when I need to use a different browser or something, I catch a glimpse of the un-adblocked internet and my response is the flinch of looking at a welding arc and the deep sadness of looking at animal cruelty.
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Oct 18, 2019 00:51
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Space Whale posted:So why do banks not just use bignum or arbitrary precision already? Like I said in my first response, a lot of banks' backend are ancient mainframes running in languages that don't have those data types and it's not worth the hassle to bodge it in.
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Oct 18, 2019 01:17
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Space Whale posted:So why do banks not just use bignum or arbitrary precision already? I have no inside knowledge of the banking industry, but my assumption just from reading this thread is that they're extremely conservative (rightfully so I guess?) about changing their software.
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Oct 18, 2019 02:06
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Space Whale posted:So why do banks not just use bignum or arbitrary precision already? every account you own and cent you've ever made is probably stored in some oracle database in a column with a data type of varchar(255).
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Oct 18, 2019 02:12
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Bruegels Fuckbooks posted:every account you own and cent you've ever made is probably stored in some oracle database in a column with a data type of varchar(255). Haha I love the comedic timing of sensible response, sensible response... boom darkness.
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Oct 18, 2019 02:14
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when i worked in payments we used strings, but we almost never did math on the values
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Oct 18, 2019 02:16
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jit bull transpile posted:Like I said in my first response, a lot of banks' backend are ancient mainframes running in languages that don't have those data types and it's not worth the hassle to bodge it in. Some of those probably have proper decimal types, too. (Side note: IBM wanted decimal floating point in JavaScript at one point).
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Oct 18, 2019 02:54
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Doc Hawkins posted:almost never
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Oct 18, 2019 07:08
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MrMoo posted:Here’s an example with Reuters, so you have a base integer and a hint value indicating a fixed transform as either an exponent or fraction for pre-decimalization type junk (US government bonds still I think). Interest rate (bond) and agricultural futures still use fractional pricing, possibly others. I had a lot of fun dealing with that in my previous job. Exchanges have really efficient ways of sending that data though, and avoiding precision issues. They just express the smallest possible change in the price (tick size) as a property of the instrument (using base and exponent for example), and the real-time price feed just gives you the number of ticks. Basically the same idea as using pennies instead of partial dollars, but generalized. Works for decimal or fractional pricing.
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Oct 18, 2019 07:36
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Beef posted:If you know what you are doing, and set the right compiler options (no fast floats, no vectorization) flops can be deterministic on the same machine or architecture, it's designed that way. You do have some operations that are not commutative, so parallelization needs to be strictly controlled as well. From what I understand, with a bit of experience in the area, getting reproducible floating point arithmetic isn't too hard. Don't use any native transcendental functions and force everything onto the correct precision and it becomes feasible.
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Oct 18, 2019 09:13
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Ola posted:Thanks, kind of hoping I made it up myself now so I actually came up with a good idea even if it was half a century late. And ad pricing reminds me of another one, I should just be able to pay Google $25 per year for an ad free internet. necrotic posted:They tried that with a $5/mo (I think) subscription for double click. Abandoned pretty quick if I'm remembering right. And you still got ads from other networks. Pff, I wish. What they actually set up was a way for you to put up any amount of money you wanted and it would bid against other google ads. There was no particular rate, and there was no guarantee it would actually remove all the google ads. And it had the anti-feature of giving more money to sites that spammed more ads. Then they discontinued it and replaced it with an even more useless thing where you subscribe to individual sites (with support being very rare) and then you pay a fixed number of pennies per page view. If they copied what they do with youtube premium, they'd be most of the way to a good solution already. But they clearly don't want to offer that kind of product. If google or anyone else ever does set something up that distributes money in a reasonable way I'll happily sign up for it. Maybe some day...
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Oct 18, 2019 09:48
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Dylan16807 posted:Pff, I wish. What they actually set up was a way for you to put up any amount of money you wanted and it would bid against other google ads. There was no particular rate, and there was no guarantee it would actually remove all the google ads. And it had the anti-feature of giving more money to sites that spammed more ads. I'm still extremely salty that this got discontinued. It very nicely solved the micro payments problem and I got to inline pictures of cats in bathtubs.
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Oct 18, 2019 12:59
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Lord have mercy.quote:Much like the rockets and spacecraft of sister company SpaceX, Tesla’s vehicles are powered by Linux running on what’s essentially off-the-shelf computing hardware. Until 2018 the Model S and X were running the open source operating system on a NVIDIA Tegra 3, at which point they switched the Media Control Unit (MCU) over to an Intel Atom solution. In either event, the Linux system is stored on an embedded Multi-Media Controller (eMMC) flash chip instead of a removable storage device as you might expect.
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Oct 18, 2019 15:41
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Arsenic Lupin posted:Lord have mercy. I for one, wellcome this brave world we live, where a car can have I/O ERROR and the driver spout "UNRECOVERABLE BAD SECTORS" in a tiny media screen.
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Oct 18, 2019 16:00
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Tei posted:I for one, wellcome this brave world we live, where a car can have I/O ERROR and the driver spout "UNRECOVERABLE BAD SECTORS" in a tiny media screen. It's a big ol' tablet and controls everything other than steering, actually. Now I wonder if SpaceX audio communications systems go through Linux's famously "working" audio subsystems.
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Oct 18, 2019 16:03
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yeah, most of our business was in keeping the numbers unchanged as we sent them to other services. occasionally we'd add them up for reports. you can do math on integers stored as strings. addition might be the easiest operation to do.
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Oct 18, 2019 16:13
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Tei posted:I for one, wellcome this brave world we live, where a car can have I/O ERROR and the driver spout "UNRECOVERABLE BAD SECTORS" in a tiny media screen. That might be better than a check engine light that flashes at you for every possible reason from the minor to the major. Maybe?
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Oct 18, 2019 17:25
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Thermopyle posted:That might be better than a check engine light that flashes at you for every possible reason from the minor to the major. Maybe? It’s not like a message about BAD SECTORS is more actionable to the driver than a check engine light, or even more understandable to most people.
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Oct 18, 2019 17:41
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csammis posted:It’s not like a message about BAD SECTORS is more actionable to the driver than a check engine light, or even more understandable to most people. "I told you this neighborhood was rough, even the car is complaining about it!"
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Oct 18, 2019 17:42
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"Owners on Tesla forums are reporting that their MCUs are crashing and leaving the expensive vehicles in “Limp Home Mode”, which allows the car to remain drivable but unable to charge. " That's ... quite a failure mode.
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Oct 18, 2019 17:45
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Wait till you find out the failure modes of the doors.
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Oct 18, 2019 18:01
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If this is the first design horror you've heard of regarding Tesla, head on over to the Tesla threads. For yesterday's discussion topic, on the most common Tesla model, there is no mechanical release for the rear doors. They used a loophole about child safety locks (and lack of regulation enforcement in general) and just.... didn't add those, because Musk didn't feel like it. So now there have been fiery deaths from people trapped in the backseat after collisions that left the car with no electrical power. Other stories of rescuers unable to open even the front doors from the outside either due to the stupid extending handles requiring power. Just helpless to watch the occupants burn. The rear door handles could easily connect directly to the door latch, but instead they just connect to a mechanical sensor for no reason, and the latch only connects to an electric motor too. People actually drive their kids around the backseat of these and are convinced that it's safer than normal because Musk and his followers claim a six star national safety rating (the rating system only goes up to five). The far more expensive SUV model Tesla does have a mechanical way to open the rear doors when the battery tray under the car becomes unpowered during a crash, but in order to actuate it, you are instructed by the manual to *carefully* disassemble the rear speaker assembly on the door and then find a hidden pull-cable inside the machinery. All while under immense pressure while doing an emergency escape. For this vastly improved feature and other similarly dumb inexplicable ones that come with the SUV version, the base price goes up by about $100,000 after all the complex bait and switch financial shenanigans of a purchase are over. Happy Thread fucked around with this message at 20:02 on Oct 18, 2019 |
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Oct 18, 2019 18:09
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Oh, this isn't the first horror story I'd heard. I was passing this one on as a seriously bad firmware decision, and thus relevant to the thread. I hadn't heard about the death fires, though; the only fires I'd heard about, people safely escaped and then posted cranky Instagrams.
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Oct 18, 2019 18:15
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That's ok, that was just for anyone for whom an insane design like that from Tesla comes as a surprise. In case anyone still thinks it seems like an inexplicable logging fuckup that bricks cars must be the biggest Tesla scandal, or even in the ballpark.
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Oct 18, 2019 18:28
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Where are the Tesla threads? I walked back awhile in AI and didn't see any.
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Oct 18, 2019 18:46
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Link to one or more deaths caused by not being able to open the rear door? I do agree that the design is stupid, but hadn't heard about any actual deaths. You can DIY a mechanical release of the rear doors on the Model 3. e: The EV thread in AI contains the Tesla-chat there, but there are some "lol Elon"-threads as well elsewhere. Ola fucked around with this message at 18:52 on Oct 18, 2019 |
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Oct 18, 2019 18:49
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There's a tesla thread in yospos.
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Oct 18, 2019 19:42
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The yospos thread on Tesla already linked is the best collection of Musk-related design horrors and occasionally coding horrors. For general social outrage related to Musk, see the CSPAM thread on Tesla. Many bits of news are cross-posted to both. The CSPAM one is more focused on funny drama (like Musk's attempted threesome with Azaelia Banks that almost collapsed the entire company), and it's also about eagerly watching for any signs of collapse. The GBS thread on Musk is pretty slow and the posters seem less informed about goings on. The AI thread on electric vehicles contains a few true believers and I would stay out of there.
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Oct 18, 2019 19:55
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Carbon dioxide posted:As far as I know, for certain things they actually use integers to represent something like one hundredth of a cent. For stock interests and stuff those amounts might add up and be relevant. This was in Hackers, a film starring Jonny Lee Miller and Angelina Jolie.
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Oct 19, 2019 14:29
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