|
King of Solomon posted:Infusion is absolutely important, particularly if you're focusing primarily on a magic stat. Right, it's only important if you're doing a specific build. Which makes it non-essential.
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2019 23:47
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 1, 2024 06:53 |
|
|
It's also pretty helpful to meet Gavlan so he can sell you infinite poison missiles later. The wharf isn't too out of the way but there are a few puzzles that someone might not pick up on. I remember on my first run I didn't find the Flexile Sentry fight until I had already beaten Sinner / Iron King / Rotten and was backtracking to figure out where the fourth great soul was supposed to be.
|
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2019 23:48
|
|
|
SHISHKABOB posted:Right, it's only important if you're doing a specific build. Which makes it non-essential. No no, it's extremely important if you're one of many of a large spectrum of builds. The large shards are useful for anyone, the access to infusion is important for anyone that uses magic at all, the early access to katanas is important for dex builds, hell, getting access to infinite Iron Arrows and Heavy Bolts is just generally important for any character. Keep in mind, infusions also allow you to strengthen weapons that have low to nonexistent scaling, too.
|
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2019 23:51
|
|
|
King of Solomon posted:No no, it's extremely important if you're one of many of a large spectrum of builds. Look all I'm saying is it's not essential. You can beat the game without getting it. You might say that's a stupid thing to say but I don't care. You could play this game a hundred different ways without ever touching infusion.
|
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2019 23:55
|
|
|
SHISHKABOB posted:Look all I'm saying is it's not essential. You can beat the game without getting it. You might say that's a stupid thing to say but I don't care. You could play this game a hundred different ways without ever touching infusion. I mean, technically almost nothing is essential in souls games. In order to beat the game, you need what, the Estus Flask, ladders/the cat ring to go to the gutter, and that's about it.
|
|
#
?
Sep 27, 2019 00:01
|
|
|
All I’m saying is that’s more important than a pyro glove. 
|
|
#
?
Sep 27, 2019 00:01
|
|
|
King of Solomon posted:I mean, technically almost nothing is essential in souls games. In order to beat the game, you need what, the Estus Flask, ladders/the cat ring to go to the gutter, and that's about it. Yes : )
|
|
#
?
Sep 27, 2019 00:01
|
|
|
SHISHKABOB posted:Right, it's only important if you're doing a specific build. Which makes it non-essential. There are non-magic-build reasons to use infusion, like infusing weapons without scaling, or weapons with elemental damage that you want to use even if you aren't taking advantage of scaling (a magic Ice Rapier or Dark Sanctum Crossbow are fantastic on any build). It's not mandatory, but unless you're speedrunning it's worth picking up, at least along with the other goodies in the area.
|
|
#
?
Sep 27, 2019 00:03
|
|
|
Infusions are great for SL1 when you’re skimping in Stat up rings and actually wanna try to interact with resistances.
|
|
#
?
Sep 27, 2019 00:07
|
|
|
Paracelsus posted:There are non-magic-build reasons to use infusion, like infusing weapons without scaling, or weapons with elemental damage that you want to use even if you aren't taking advantage of scaling (a magic Ice Rapier or Dark Sanctum Crossbow are fantastic on any build). It's not mandatory, but unless you're speedrunning it's worth picking up, at least along with the other goodies in the area. Wow thanks I had no idea!
|
|
#
?
Sep 27, 2019 00:08
|
|
|
This is worse than arguing about deadzones
|
|
#
?
Sep 27, 2019 00:46
|
|
|
Sishkabob's point is that you can make +10 normal weapons without infusion so no matter what you are not losing out in terms of having a viable upgrade path. It'll just mean that if it's your first playthrough and you don't know what you are doing and miss the dull ember you'll be compelled, even as a magic user, to put some more points into STR and/or DEX which is honestly not that big a deal. If you *do* know what you are doing, and are trying to go for a specific build that demands you ignore STR and DEX that'd mean it's not your first playthrough so what are you doing missing out on the dull ember for? You know where that poo poo is.
|
|
#
?
Sep 27, 2019 07:47
|
|
|
I'm replaying through this since I never did the DLC. Up to the Iron Keep and yeesh is this the weakest game in the series. I keep thinking about hbomberguy's video and get pissed.
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2019 22:23
|
|
|
punk rebel ecks posted:I'm replaying through this since I never did the DLC. Up to the Iron Keep and yeesh is this the weakest game in the series. I keep thinking about hbomberguy's video and get pissed. I've played all of them, Demon's Souls included, and nah, this isn't the weakest game. It's definitely not the strongest in the series, but it's not the worst either.
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2019 22:38
|
|
|
Its strengths and weaknesses are different than the other games, but in some ways it's the strongest. Some of its strengths may be less apparent with a smaller player base, though.
|
|
#
?
Oct 18, 2019 00:10
|
|
|
DaS2 is a half-sibling to the other games. Seems to most logical way to look at it.
|
|
#
?
Oct 18, 2019 00:12
|
|
|
DS2 has some real highs and some real lows. For example: Soul memory. One of the stupidest ideas I’ve ever seen in a game with PvP/Coop. Bonfire ascetic. A great mechanic that I wish more games included. I never got the hate for Iron Keep though. Don’t misunderstand, it’s not a great zone to play through, but compared to Blighttown or Farron Keep, I’ll take Iron Keep any day. Doors of Pharros and the rat covenant were the most fun I’ve ever had PvPing in these games. In conclusion, DS2 is a game of contrasts.
|
|
#
?
Oct 18, 2019 00:30
|
|
|
HairyManling posted:I never got the hate for Iron Keep though. Don’t misunderstand, it’s not a great zone to play through, but compared to Blighttown or Farron Keep, I’ll take Iron Keep any day. Doors of Pharros and the rat covenant were the most fun I’ve ever had PvPing in these games. Scholar made it a lot worse after they decided the best way to improve the area was to just slam ctrl-V a million times on the alonne knights
|
|
#
?
Oct 18, 2019 00:33
|
|
|
Iron Keep isn’t terrible. It’s not tiny or underdeveloped/basically a hallway like a lot of DS2 levels are. It’s a big zone with a variety of traps and enemies and a couple things to do. It’s not great either though. It doesn’t look very good though it’s not blindingly bright when you look at the lava which is something, I guess. It suffers from the visual blandness that a lot of other zones in the game had. There’s no real hook to the zone, it’s just a lava castle go kick its rear end I guess. Also it’s shown up by Brume Tower which is right after it and a WAYYY better level along the same theme. In SOTFS it opens up dickishly hard also. Gank train of two invaders followed by a flood of Alonnes out of the main furnace room.
|
|
#
?
Oct 18, 2019 00:43
|
|
|
Gay Rat Wedding posted:Scholar made it a lot worse after they decided the best way to improve the area was to just slam ctrl-V a million times on the alonne knights Yeah, I can see that for someone playing the game for the first time, or new to the series, that area would be hell. By the time I got there in Scholar which was probably my fourth or fifth play-through I had a heavy axe (can’t recall the name offhand) that just flattened those jerks, so it only seemed like a minor annoyance.
|
|
#
?
Oct 18, 2019 00:48
|
|
|
ime the intended experience for iron keep is learning about the despawning mechanic
|
|
#
?
Oct 18, 2019 00:57
|
|
|
I like Iron Keep aesthetically and because of new player experiences with That Room. But it’s definitely the weakest of the DLCs. Still light years better than 90% of the base game. DS2 really only has three Pros to me: Fashion Power stancing Ascetics Tbh those are strong pros, but the moment to moment gameplay ranges from kinda rear end to absolute dogshit. The shine comes off fast after Forest. Edit: Oops I totally conflated Iron Keep with the DLC. Look Sir Droids fucked around with this message at 01:16 on Oct 18, 2019 |
|
#
?
Oct 18, 2019 01:06
|
|
|
HairyManling posted:DS2 has some real highs and some real lows. For example: Ironically, despite soul memory being kinda dumb, the game has far and away the best multiplayer systems in the franchise.
|
|
#
?
Oct 18, 2019 01:11
|
|
|
I have a strange affinity for Iron Keep because it makes a good intermission to do some soul farming with a clear end goal (get all of the knights to stop respawning). Dark Souls II leans further in the direction of gameplay mechanics over the more cerebral aspects of the first Dark Souls that I really did love, but I don't let that get in the way of enjoying a perfectly good game. I like that I have the choice of three different Dark Souls games to play depending on what type of game I'm in the mood for (plus the other Soulsbourne games). I like Dark Souls II a lot. I really like the world aesthetic too and its abstract sense of space. People make fun of the elevator between Earthen Peak and Iron Keep as an absurd bit of geography, but I prefer to interpret it as an abstraction representing discontinuous travel (either literally in space or within a fragmented memory or dream) since it fits well with the overall narrative. Another example is that you can see Heide's Tower way off in the distance from Majula across the water, but you can get there through a short non-descript hallway in about ten seconds. It's not the way Dark Souls' world was laid out, but it still reads okay to me. It's a bit like Demon's Souls archstones, but without loading screens. I personally rank Dark Souls III at the bottom, but that's not because I think it sucks, it's just the most combat-oriented linear game in the series, and that's never what I cared about in Dark Souls. It feels like it's for the people who played Dark Souls and wished it had a boss rush mode. I barely remember the first time I fought any of the bosses in Dark Souls, but I definitely remember the way I felt walking around the areas for the first time. The first time I got to the first bonfire in Blighttown and not knowing what was coming next is one of my favourite memories out of all the games I've played. Dark Souls III is hyper-polished but it's also hyper-punishing which means there are several areas in the game where my memory of it is just rushing through it so I didn't have to deal with all the horseshit. Irithyll of Boreal Valley is one of those, and it sucks because it's such a gorgeous area, but it's loaded with punishing enemies and they are all respawning, so even going through the effort of clearing them out doesn't really reward you with anything in the long term. Look Sir Droids posted:I like Iron Keep aesthetically and because of new player experiences with That Room. But it’s definitely the weakest of the DLCs. Still light years better than 90% of the base game.
|
|
#
?
Oct 18, 2019 01:14
|
|
|
I like Dark Souls 2 the most and I think a big part of it is how unexpected it can be. Dark Souls 3 is always very grand and sweeping, it's very impressive but it doesn't have as much of the smaller, weirder moments that mess around with what you're expecting to find. They're very different styles of games, and they're all effective at doing what they want, I'm just more fond of the strange, quirky world of Dark Souls 2 than the epic tragedy of Dark Souls 3.
|
|
#
?
Oct 18, 2019 02:56
|
|
|
punk rebel ecks posted:I keep thinking about hbomberguy's video and get pissed. hbomb posted:"it incentivized dodging instead of using a shield!" -> game requires large investment in adaptability to dodge with any degree of effectiveness
|
|
#
?
Oct 18, 2019 03:53
|
|
|
I like a lot of DS2 and find other bits of it drag it down. Besides the general rushed-ness of some of the middle areas of the game and the soul memory mechanic being a really awkward attempt to address complaints about DS1 twink invaders, I think the strangest weak point was the addition of the life gems. I'm not even opposed to them as a consumable element, but being able to carry so many around and having the healing speed up the more you popped were such shocking retreads back to the same level of imbalanced healing mechanics of Demon's Souls. It was pretty neat discovering that Sekiro basically brought the same system back and made it work fine by just drastically capping the number you could carry and not letting the healing rate stack, though.
|
|
#
?
Oct 18, 2019 04:18
|
|
|
Blaziken386 posted:hbombs video convinced me to go back and play it again on ps4, and while I'll concede a lot of his points he glazed over a lot of the bad parts 1. The investment required is not actually particularly large once you take into account how quickly you level in the game, and how many more levels you'll have in general down the line. It's an earlygame problem for sure, and not great design, but once you're aware of the tax it's just an earlygame problem. Depending on how you play it, you can actually get better rolls than you'd get in other souls games with higher equip load, which reflects his larger point. 2. Those thoughts aren't connected at all. 3. In DS1, you fatroll at 50%. In this game, you fatroll at 70%. This is a nonissue unless you're carrying heavy poo poo and ignoring VIT.
|
|
#
?
Oct 18, 2019 04:21
|
|
|
King of Solomon posted:1. The investment required is not actually particularly large once you take into account how quickly you level in the game, and how many more levels you'll have in general down the line. It's an earlygame problem for sure, and not great design, but once you're aware of the tax it's just an earlygame problem. Depending on how you play it, you can actually get better rolls than you'd get in other souls games with higher equip load, which reflects his larger point. 1, 3 - while the roll isn't exactly slower, every 20% (starting at 10%) you lose range on the roll (which doesn't seem like a lot, but it's frequently enough to be the difference between rolling out of reach of a sword and getting smacked by the end of its hitbox) and your stamina recovery speed goes down. which means you need to put levels into equip load AND adaptability to get good rolls if you want to be anything other than naked
|
|
#
?
Oct 18, 2019 04:58
|
|
|
King of Solomon posted:Ironically, despite soul memory being kinda dumb, the game has far and away the best multiplayer systems in the franchise. Yeah, agreed. DS2 provided the best multiplayer experience I’ve had out of any of the Soulsborne games.
|
|
#
?
Oct 18, 2019 04:59
|
|
|
I'm in Iron Keep right now. It would be fun if I didn't HAVE to kill all of these knights in order to get to Smeltering Demon. Also, yeah in its heydays, Dark Souls II has great PvP. That was the strong thing it had going for it. My biggest problems with it is that everything is so gank. The game is "hard" because it throws at you multiple enemies at a time that makes it difficult to juggle with, and the areas range from average to outright atrocious. I mean Tomb of Giants and Lost Izalith are bad, but at least they were kind of unique. Blaziken386 posted:hbombs video convinced me to go back and play it again on ps4, and while I'll concede a lot of his points he glazed over a lot of the bad parts The thing that made me the most livid when he said "Dark Souls 2 has better bosses because most of them are humanoid. Beast and other type of bosses suck. Think about it, Dark Souls 1's non-humanoid bosses almost all suck. Including Siff since he was only good due to lore." I mean I could list some good non-humanoid bosses from Dark Souls 1 but the issue is that it didn't have that many non-humanoid bosses in the base game to begin with. All I can think of is Siff, Seeth, Quelag, Moonlight Butterfly, and Gaping Dragon. Three out of those five bosses are really good. The issue with Dark Souls 2 bosses isn't that there aren't any good ones, but that there are way too many and they almost all suck. Dark Souls 2 has a"quantity>quality" philosophy.
|
|
#
?
Oct 18, 2019 05:41
|
|
|
The number of bosses in DS2 compared to DS1 is difficult to compare because they essentially use different metrics for what constitutes a boss. Also, you're missing Asylum Demon, Ceaseless Discharge, Centipede Demon, Demon Firesage, Iron Golem, Nito, Stray Demon, Taurus Demon, and Bed of Chaos. Yes, Taurus and the Asylum Demon clones are roughly humanoid, but you fight them like a big beast boss, not like a duel.
|
|
#
?
Oct 18, 2019 06:48
|
|
|
Djeser posted:The number of bosses in DS2 compared to DS1 is difficult to compare because they essentially use different metrics for what constitutes a boss. They were listing the ones they thought were good. Also cmon Iron Golem is a humanoid boss. The criticism of DS2 is that it's a bunch of big armored humans, and the Iron Golem falls under that.
|
|
#
?
Oct 18, 2019 06:54
|
|
|
Djeser posted:The number of bosses in DS2 compared to DS1 is difficult to compare because they essentially use different metrics for what constitutes a boss. I think what hbomberguy meant with "Beast and other type of bosses" were 4+ legged bosses for beasts, and gimmicky weirdo bosses like bed of chaos/pinwheel/seath for "other".
|
|
#
?
Oct 18, 2019 06:58
|
|
|
IronicDongz posted:What, in your mind, constitutes a "duel" vs. a "beast" fight, if asylum demon and iron golem don't count as duels but humanoids from ds2 like dragonrider or do? Because those are both bosses with slow attacks that can mostly be avoided with strafing, but asylum demon and iron golem are bigger and attack somewhat slower. Same for taurus demon. You're right, it's not that simple of a dichotomy. I still think the Dragonrider fights feel more like fighting "a guy" compared to the Iron Golem, though, which is more of a big thing whose feet you have to punch until he falls over. More to the point, I think the proportion of good boss fights in the game is about the same, it's just that Dark Souls 2 throws a whole lot more at you.
|
|
#
?
Oct 18, 2019 08:11
|
|
|
I don't think maingame ds2 has many good bossfights, but I think the dlcs make up for it.
|
|
#
?
Oct 18, 2019 08:26
|
|
|
DS2's my favorite Soulslike. It just feels better to me, like, the encounter design and the area design is weird and great all at once. Also, I like almost all the bosses; Ancient Dragon sucked to fight (too much health, was just boring as a result) and Royal Rat Authority is annoying in an unfun way, but like... The Pursuer as an early boss? Sinh, the best dragon fight in the series? Darklurker? The best iteration of Gargoyles? DS2 had some goddamn amazing bosses for me.
|
|
#
?
Oct 18, 2019 12:26
|
|
|
There’s four really good bosses in DS2, ironically all big armor dudes, Velstadt, Raime, Alonne, and Ivory. Any one of those guys could slot right into any other game in the series and not be embarrassed (well, maybe not Ivory with his goofy add portals). Every other boss is ok at best though (the best of the rest is probably Smelter, another big armor dude, or just maybe Sentinels, three big armor dudes), with many that are very forgettable, and that sucks because there’s a LOT of bosses in the game. As with most things in DS2 they were too ambitious for their resources. You could halve the number of bosses in the game and no one would miss them
|
|
#
?
Oct 18, 2019 12:39
|
|
|
Whalley posted:DS2's my favorite Soulslike. It just feels better to me, like, the encounter design and the area design is weird and great all at once. Also, I like almost all the bosses; Ancient Dragon sucked to fight (too much health, was just boring as a result) and Royal Rat Authority is annoying in an unfun way, but like... The Pursuer as an early boss? Sinh, the best dragon fight in the series? Darklurker? The best iteration of Gargoyles? DS2 had some goddamn amazing bosses for me. Strong disagree on encounter design and the Gargoyles. There's a some encounters that do have good design, but they are stuck between countless monster closets and encounters designed to overwhelm you moreso than challenge you. And even a lot of the good encounters work in a similar way, thinking specifically about the guys that drop from above on your way to the Undead Purgatory, you have a really good concept of an encounter hiding in plain sight with good spacial awareness giving you an edge, which ends up coming across as more of a pain because you have to fight like 8 of the guys instead of like 3 or 4. Basically, punk rebel ecks posted:Dark Souls 2 has a"quantity>quality" philosophy. This is spot on, and a lot of the things that make DS2 a really good game, such as build variety and fashion, are a result of quantity often being a quality of its own.
|
|
#
?
Oct 18, 2019 12:42
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 1, 2024 06:53 |
|
|
skasion posted:There’s four really good bosses in DS2, ironically all big armor dudes, Velstadt, Raime, Alonne, and Ivory. Any one of those guys could slot right into any other game in the series and not be embarrassed (well, maybe not Ivory with his goofy add portals). Every other boss is ok at best though (the best of the rest is probably Smelter, another big armor dude, or just maybe Sentinels, three big armor dudes), with many that are very forgettable, and that sucks because there’s a LOT of bosses in the game. As with most things in DS2 they were too ambitious for their resources. You could halve the number of bosses in the game and no one would miss them While I agree overall I think there are good non-armour men bosses. Demon of Song, the two main Shulva Bosses, Looking Glass Knight, locked-up sinner, bone lords and Big Spider are all neat. They coulda cut them down a good deal but when I think of the things with DSII I don't like bosses aren't a huge complaint. The "dudes in armour" argument I think has more feet in the fact that, even if they misstepped, Demon's Souls and Dark Souls at least have more creativity in their boss design. Even if you don't like Bed of Chaos, the fatty bird demon or the Storm King you have to admit you need to approach those bosses differently than every other boss in the series. You can't go in there in "strafe around and hit" mode and might even need to (gasp!) prepare for the fight mentally ahead of time. While the big boys in armour can be fun to fight for sure, they kinda blend together and there aren't many of them that you really need to think about. Sekiro is fantastic in it's boss design. Despite the lack of puzzle fights, you really need to consider whether it's better to block, dodge, counter, whittle down HP or go after poise. Every fight in that game feels very unique despite being toned down more than their other work. Calico Heart fucked around with this message at 12:49 on Oct 18, 2019 |
|
#
?
Oct 18, 2019 12:45
|
|
