|
Eric the Mauve posted:but at least taxes are sky high No PA resident on the eastern side thinks this, because NJ an NY make it look like a good deal.
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2019 23:34
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 16, 2024 09:27 |
|
|
can you ask for a confirmed 40 hr week in a 1099 contract?
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2019 23:44
|
|
|
Edgar Allan Pwned posted:can you ask for a confirmed 40 hr week in a 1099 contract? You can ask and agree on any legal thing in a contract which you are negotiating with another party. 1099 is not a magical "you're not really an employee" card, like so many businesses abuse it to be. You are negotiating a business to business transaction. I have negotiated everything from a block of hours that expire after a certain time period to be paid immediately or over a specific period of time to a number of hours per week that, whether worked or not, must be paid.
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2019 23:47
|
|
|
Eric the Mauve posted:PA is a great place to live, the weather sucks and the roads are horrific, but at least taxes are sky high
|
|
#
?
Oct 18, 2019 02:16
|
|
|
Dik Hz posted:And all the major cities are known for their friendly locals, too. Hey gently caress you. 
|
|
#
?
Oct 18, 2019 02:23
|
|
|
Dik Hz posted:And all the major cities are known for their friendly locals, too. As a visible minority the rural areas are worse
|
|
#
?
Oct 18, 2019 03:06
|
|
|
Motronic posted:Hey gently caress you. 
|
|
#
?
Oct 18, 2019 03:48
|
|
|
How do you negotiate with someone trying to rob you on the street? My experience is limited, but I managed to keep my phone and everything with my name on it. I did not take the bullet that was apparently in the chamber of the glock 9, but I don’t think they really wanted to give it to me. Applying BATNA to this scenario is rather interesting...
|
|
#
?
Oct 18, 2019 05:24
|
|
|
So I declined an interview invitation saying I decided moving wasn't for me and they came back saying I have good a good chance of getting the job (government job) and what my reason for not moving is. That's really unexpected, but I'd still be taking a paycut and moving to a more expensive city. Only offset is the fact that it's a really interesting position and jobs in the public sector are extremely stable.
|
|
#
?
Oct 18, 2019 09:17
|
|
|
Ultimate Mango posted:How do you negotiate with someone trying to rob you on the street?
|
|
#
?
Oct 18, 2019 14:48
|
|
|
Cacafuego posted:Oh, I wont. I may be frustrated by my current place and like the former, but it's not enough to make me go back for less than what I want. Spoke to the recruiter today and have a couple questions for the thread. At my current place, I'm at $112k with an extra ~$1-2k/year from ESPP. Potential for quarterly bonus upon meeting metrics (days on site), but due to slow starting projects have not made this bonus in Q2 or Q3. Would likely not make bonus for Q4 2019 or Q1 2020. I'm expecting a promotion to grade 4/4 next month, but not entirely sure I'll get it, nor do I know how much they'll increase my pay. Assume $120k, but then I'll top out. Pending an interview, the old place offered $115k with a $15k signing bonus for grade 4/5 (they have a 5th grade that the current employer doesn't), meaning I'd have room for additional salary increase in the future upon promotion to the highest tier. With this, I know that they also have quarterly bonuses that I may or may not meet as it is also based on days on site, however, they also have an annual bonus but I'm not counting potential bonuses. The signing bonus is much more than I had expected. I didn't know this, but a policy enacted last year would give anyone re-hired within 5 years their seniority as if they hadn't left, which would give me 3 years. I asked about how that would affect vesting (and if I could get any of the non-vested funds back that I had lost when I left), which she said she'd check on. I essentially told her that wasn't enough and she said what she could do. She said perhaps $120k with more signing bonus, but she'll check. It's not near my $130k want, but if they're bringing me in at $120k (or more) and I have additional head room for a higher grade in the future there that I wouldn't have upon a potential promotion here, how should I factor that in my decision? E: forgot some things - med/dental/eye coverage is also $2400/year cheaper, so that's additional income, however, they only match 3% while the current place matches 4.5%. Cacafuego fucked around with this message at 15:53 on Oct 18, 2019 |
|
#
?
Oct 18, 2019 15:47
|
|
|
denied my request for more money and was told they cannot put a 40 hr work week in writing as it conflicts with irs guidelines. that doesnt seem completely true. doesnt it only conflict if they tell times to come and go? given the response "if youre valuable we'll hire you but we also have to train you so no more money"
|
|
#
?
Oct 18, 2019 17:59
|
|
|
Edgar Allan Pwned posted:denied my request for more money and was told they cannot put a 40 hr work week in writing as it conflicts with irs guidelines. that doesnt seem completely true. doesnt it only conflict if they tell times to come and go? given the response "if youre valuable we'll hire you but we also have to train you so no more money" lol, these people are idiots. You don't want to work for them unless the alternative is going without a job. Training someone is like one of the most obvious things that makes a person an employee and not a contractor, and they're worried about a number of hours per week? The IRS could have a field day with that.
|
|
#
?
Oct 18, 2019 18:03
|
|
|
I have two pending job offers that I can't decide on. One is with a boutique digital agency in Boulder near where I live. It's pretty well respected and full of a ton of smart people. I'd have to go to the office every day, but it's a decent place despite self paid parking. "Unlimited" PTO (kinda sucks imo) but fully paid health insurance premiums. $98k, I'd be a senior individual contributor. One is a KPO/offshoring firm that does digital work. Huge pro is that it's fully remote, allowing me to relocate if I want to in the future. I'd be managing a team of three people in India. Role is essentially the same responsibility wise. 3 weeks PTO, 8 sick days, $105k. I don't know a ton about them otherwise, honestly. Manager title. What's the best way to evaluate which one is best? I'm tempted to go with the money and remote, but I'd never heard of this place before and the other firm is a leader in their field.
|
|
#
?
Oct 18, 2019 21:26
|
|
|
Bring the 105 to company A and see if they'll match? Have you worked with offshore before? Are you ok with weird schedules? Cultural issues? International travel to build rapport?
|
|
#
?
Oct 18, 2019 21:39
|
|
|
I actually negotiated A up to 98 from 90 before I had the offer from the other firm. I haven't worked offshore before - I don't think there's a lot of international travel involved, and I have worked with remote dev teams (not as their manager though). Sounds like it might be a pain?
|
|
#
?
Oct 18, 2019 22:02
|
|
|
I have never found it enjoyable. Even when the offshore team is good, it's a slog uphill getting stuff done. Unfortunately, often, the offshore team is not good, and it's really a tough ride. When you're the manager, a lot more stuff becomes your problem. You may have experienced this stuff below but it's my experiences and observations after a few years working with offshore or adjacent to it: Timezone differences make calls at weird hours pretty common. The distance narrows communication bands, so you're never sure if you understand each other. Also, if everyone understands the language, cultural stuff catches you from odd angles. It helps a lot in building rapport to visit their office, hence my note on travel. If it's project/client work, it can also be quite isolating. You are not fully a part of either team and do a lot of advocating and translating. Also, if it's offshore for cost reasons, its often commodity work( or seen as such by the client), so they're looking to squeeze as much as possible out of their dollar. That means squeezing you and your team. A lot of these businesses/projects I've seen seem to run on burning out middle managers trying to make it all work. Not that anyone admits it. I'm not saying you don't take it. They're paying more, and maybe the firm has a good handle on how to do these things well. Perhaps you can get more info on how they operate or talk to someone currently in the role or who recently left?
|
|
#
?
Oct 18, 2019 22:36
|
|
|
dream9!bed!! posted:I'd be managing a team of three people in India. Have you ever run a team that is in a vastly different timezone? My teams are global, and europe isn't so bad, but APAC sucks for someone, every time. If the team is there and you are here logically the person who needs to deal with the suck is you.
|
|
#
?
Oct 18, 2019 22:43
|
|
|
dream9!bed!! posted:I have two pending job offers that I can't decide on. Job B looks better on paper but you will hate it. It's not worth $7K and 100% remote (which if you haven't done it before you will probably quickly discover is very overrated) over Job A. Also Job A sounds way way better for networking opportunities, and networking isn't everything, it's the only thing. I wouldn't consider Job B unless it was 25% more compensation minimum. (I would definitely use the offer to try to get Job A to improve their offer, though.) Cacafuego posted:Spoke to the recruiter today and have a couple questions for the thread. Old Company's offer is only a tiny improvement over what you currently make (sounds like they know what you're currently making, actually) and I personally would not jump for such a small bump. I'd tell them thanks for reaching out but I like my current role and that's not nearly good enough an offer to convince me to jump back. Your posts still give the vibe that you'd really prefer to jump back though, so maybe you're weighting things in a different way than I am. Eric the Mauve fucked around with this message at 22:52 on Oct 18, 2019 |
|
#
?
Oct 18, 2019 22:45
|
|
|
Eric the Mauve posted:
Honestly am leaning back to old company, but I told them I wasn’t happy with the offer they provided, but I didn’t tell them that. We’ll see what they come back with.
|
|
#
?
Oct 18, 2019 23:40
|
|
|
Cacafuego posted:Honestly am leaning back to old company, but I told them I wasn’t happy with the offer they provided, but I didn’t tell them that. We’ll see what they come back with. I can't parse this, what did you tell them? To perhaps skip a followup post: you should always be clear about what you want once numbers have hit the table. You should not say: "This offer is not good enough." You should say: "I'd prefer to start in role 5/5 and at $150k." (I think you said they offered 4/5?)
|
|
#
?
Oct 18, 2019 23:48
|
|
|
Boot and Rally posted:I can't parse this, what did you tell them? To perhaps skip a followup post: you should always be clear about what you want once numbers have hit the table. This is babby’s first real negotiation, I’m doing my best and I’m not gifted as a wordsmith, so I may not be explaining this well, so forgive me for my ignorance. I don’t have enough experience for grade 5/5. I know this as well as they do. My current company only has 4 tiers, the old one has 5. Say they come back at $120k for grade 4/5 with room to move up to 5/5 eventually. Wouldn’t that be better than ~$120k at the current company at grade 4/4 (if they actually give me the promotion) with no room to increase in the future. I’m my previous post, I believed $130k was market, but i was looking at grade 5/5 at the old company. My mistake. I thought I’ve been told several times “never give a number”, why would I tell them $150k?
|
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2019 01:03
|
|
|
Cacafuego posted:This is babby’s first real negotiation, I’m doing my best and I’m not gifted as a wordsmith, so I may not be explaining this well, so forgive me for my ignorance.
|
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2019 01:32
|
|
|
Cacafuego posted:I thought I’ve been told several times “never give a number”, why would I tell them $150k? Sorry, I was responding to what I thought your post said. I thought it said they had already made an offer. Once the company says "We would like to pay you $X" never respond with anything but a number unless you're accepting or walking away. Cacafuego posted:This is babby’s first real negotiation, I’m doing my best and I’m not gifted as a wordsmith, so I may not be explaining this well, so forgive me for my ignorance. You're thinking too far ahead. When you get through the interview with the old company your choice is between what they offer and what you currently have. Promises of promotions at your present company are worth zero. If you decide to go and your old company says "Hold up now, we can push that promotion through sooner and pay you $BLAH," then you can evaluate the promotion at current company vs new job at old company. If they do end up being the same $120k then you evaluate based on what you want most and can get today. Like commute, in building gym, whatever floats your boat. You get to 5/5 or more figgies by changing jobs again when you're closer to having enough experience for the level. As Dik Hz says, pay bands disappear for the people a company wants/needs.
|
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2019 01:49
|
|
|
I had a preliminary phone interview this morning with a general recruiter for the bigger conglomerate a local company is part of. Seems like it went well, and when he asked what I was expecting to be paid, I said I would need to know more about the specific responsibilities, environment, and benefits package, and wasn't ready to give a number. He took it well, no pressure or anything, which I hope is a good sign. The next step is a recruiter at the specific company, so we'll see where that goes. Thanks for drilling "never say a number", folks!
|
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2019 03:13
|
|
|
I had a phone interview with a large global corporation last week. When she asked me for my current and expected salary, I turned it around on her and asked her what the position's range was. She provided it. I asked for slightly more than the top of their range, and they're still interviewing me. Not every recruiter is gonna give this to you, but you should definitely ask. It's a harmless question with such high potential payoff.
|
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2019 03:18
|
|
|
Vegetable posted:I had a phone interview with a large global corporation last week. When she asked me for my current and expected salary, I turned it around on her and asked her what the position's range was. She provided it. Shouldn't I want them to invest more time (=money) in interviewing me before I get them to anchor?
|
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2019 03:51
|
|
|
moana posted:Holy hell, with a gun? That's scary as gently caress. I've always heard the advice to throw your purse on the ground and then run, most robbers won't chase/shoot you if they are trying to pick up your purse first but if you stick around then things could get much worse than just losing your stuff. I’ve wanted to write about it for a long time. But thinking about it as a negotiation helped. They got cash. I kept my identifying documents and my phone. They went to jail. I moved to another city, but I also didn’t get literally shot.
|
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2019 04:47
|
|
|
Boot and Rally posted:Sorry, I was responding to what I thought your post said. I thought it said they had already made an offer. Once the company says "We would like to pay you $X" never respond with anything but a number unless you're accepting or walking away. No worries, I’m thankful for the coaching. I see what you’re saying and if what they return with is not above my ask, I’d say something like, I need at least ($my ask) to make the jump. I agree with Dik Hz as well, I don’t plan on getting the promotion at the current company, it may not come through, so I’m not basing my decision on that. I did not realize that pay bands could be bypassed though!
|
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2019 13:22
|
|
|
Cacafuego posted:I did not realize that pay bands could be bypassed though! This is worth us discussing; during negotiations you may often get confronted with an appeal to internal authority. "The pay band for the position is X" "Our policy is new employees receive Y days of vacation" "Yes, you can have a test drive but only on our parking lot" These policies were not handed down by the divine and are not rigorously enforced, there are not consequences for violating them and they are not privileged. This is a negotiating tactic that the other party is using to try and get you to yield on something without having to directly confront you over the point of contention. This is bullshit. You are negotiating with a company through its representative and the company can act in whatever ways it wants even if those ways contravene written policies. If you've been in the private sector for any amount of time you already know that there are written policies which are not actually followed or enforced. Policies around compensation also fit this bucket; so to defeat them you need to a) Communicate goals clearly b) Be more unyielding in your adherence to your goals than they are in adherence to their policy If you're the best candidate, they'll flinch first. If they're talking offers, you're the best candidate they've gotten so far.
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2019 15:33
|
|
|
Bingo--with standard caveats that for some companies "best candidate" is synonymous with "cheapest marginally qualified candidate" and you don't want to work for those companies. But usually you won't even reach the point of "well HR policy dictates this is as high as we can go for this position" with such a company; you'll just get "this is the offer, take it or leave it." If you leave it they'll just offer it to the next candidate on the list, continue until one accepts. As always, if you're not actually willing to walk away if you don't get what you want, you've lost the negotiation before it began. Then you're not really negotiating at all so much as asking for favors (this is the position of the bog standard person too afraid of change to actually seek a new job, they just want more money from their current one somehow).
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2019 15:40
|
|
|
Conversely, if you haven't played the interviewing game much (and not played it to the point of rejecting offers), you may be so invested in the time and energy you put into interviewing with a company that you feel like you're missing out rejecting their unsatisfactory offer. If you've never rejected an offer, I encourage you to take a bunch of low-interest interviews for jobs you don't think you would take. This will spend your time, but you'll get the valuable mindset necessary for all job negotiations.
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2019 15:55
|
|
|
How do you guys recommend responding to those ‘sorry, policy dictates that-‘ roadblocks? I typically go with something along the lines of, ‘well we’re going to need to address that then, do you know who to reach out to in order to appeal this?’ and going from there. It seems like the diplomatic response
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2019 16:07
|
|
|
PIZZA.BAT posted:How do you guys recommend responding to those ‘sorry, policy dictates that-‘ roadblocks? I typically go with something along the lines of, ‘well we’re going to need to address that then, do you know who to reach out to in order to appeal this?’ and going from there. It seems like the diplomatic response Them: "I'm sorry, policy dictates we can't do that." Me: "Well, I'm still going to need $X to proceed."
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2019 16:12
|
|
|
PIZZA.BAT posted:How do you guys recommend responding to those ‘sorry, policy dictates that-‘ roadblocks? I typically go with something along the lines of, ‘well we’re going to need to address that then, do you know who to reach out to in order to appeal this?’ and going from there. It seems like the diplomatic response This: Hoodwinker posted:I just sort of slide right by it and don't even acknowledge it. Briefly: you are smart candidate who knows what they want. You don't ask for permission to do anything, you tell them what you want. To expand on the reply a bit. The company has picked their representative, so you deal with them. Asking for their permission to speak to their manager, so to speak, isn't productive. In the past, one of the responses I have received after doing what Hoodwinker suggests is to be called back by the manager. The manager said, "no seriously, that is the best we can do." Sometimes they promise some bullshit that isn't written down, so is worthless, like "we all leave early!". Other times they just say "welp, I guess we are stuck" and move on to the next candidate. In both cases, I knew what it took to get me to take the job, I was fine with just walking away.
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2019 17:06
|
|
|
yeah it's not your job to fix their organizational problems and try to straighten out an offer. It's your job to clearly communicate the end goals they need to meet to secure your labor. Tell them what needs to happen and then either let them succeed or fail. You have to actually be mentally prepared to let them fail.
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2019 18:47
|
|
|
Is it ok to let it get to the offer stage of a job you were never interested in for the negotiation experience? I worry about the chance of pissing off the HR or hiring managers and burning bridges especially in a field that isn't that large. That and the  of doing interviews in a position I'm not keen on leads me to just saying no thanks to the internal recruiters who contact me. (external recruiters I don't bother with at all)
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2019 19:00
|
|
|
priznat posted:Is it ok to let it get to the offer stage of a job you were never interested in for the negotiation experience? I worry about the chance of pissing off the HR or hiring managers and burning bridges especially in a field that isn't that large.
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2019 19:44
|
|
|
Hoodwinker posted:I just sort of slide right by it and don't even acknowledge it. This is good advice but also you kind of need to know when pay bands or other policies are not going to be waived by HR. A 10000 employee company is less likely than a 50. It will also depend on the grade and your experience. 5 years exp I am not even going to go to HR. 15 years and someone I really need I will try. Ultimately if I am stuck in the band and you walk I just move on. No hard feelings, no big deal. Certain people you will break the rules for. Many you will not though.
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2019 21:02
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 16, 2024 09:27 |
|
|
I feel like the only reason I'd accept pay bands in a company is if they're a union shop. Inflexible and no representation? Count me out.
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2019 21:10
|
|