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Freezer posted:It's a new world now, a Trump world. Anything can happen. Trump is more likely to kick out the Baltics than Turkey, imo.
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Oct 18, 2019 08:41
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NATO is powerless about Turkey because you should never get involved in a land war in Asia Minor.
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Oct 18, 2019 09:22
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The reason Trump backstabbed the Kurds is that this way Erdogan can make a safe border and make the Kurds pay for it.Orange Devil posted:Trump is more likely to kick out the Baltics than Turkey, imo. Don't forget about the "very aggressive" Montenegrins!
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Oct 18, 2019 10:58
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If you kick Turkey out of NATO what's the point of it? It was set-up to limit Russian influence so if you let Russia leak through Turkey into the ME then the whole things bust. Maybe it's too late anyway.
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Oct 18, 2019 12:18
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Squalid posted:It would be nice to have hard numbers. Without them however we can still use less reliable kinds of evidence to make loose inferences. Your statement was not consistent with the best attempts to estimate hard numbers or with what else is known about the Syrian civil war. I like how the thing that has happened in literally every civil war since the dawn of mankind is now some weird baseless claim that must be assumed false. Guess it must be weird to live in some kind of eternal now.
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Oct 18, 2019 12:20
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Flayer posted:If you kick Turkey out of NATO what's the point of it? It was set-up to limit Russian influence so if you let Russia leak through Turkey into the ME then the whole things bust. Maybe it's too late anyway. NATO does still have some value for keeping Russia from rolling into the Baltics. On the other hand, I'm not seeing much evidence that Turkey is interested in doing anything in service of NATO's goals.
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Oct 18, 2019 12:25
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Darth Walrus posted:NATO does still have some value for keeping Russia from rolling into the Baltics. On the other hand, I'm not seeing much evidence that Turkey is interested in doing anything in service of NATO's goals. Baltics or Balkans?
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Oct 18, 2019 13:29
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SimonCat posted:Baltics or Balkans? Baltics, of course.
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Oct 18, 2019 13:49
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https://twitter.com/BBCJonSopel/status/1185173924155404288 https://twitter.com/HeerJeet/status/1185198357788135426 https://twitter.com/rabrowne75/status/1185187331650850819 https://twitter.com/laraseligman/status/1185147861589266433 Dr Kool-AIDS fucked around with this message at 15:31 on Oct 18, 2019 |
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Oct 18, 2019 14:30
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That was such a poo poo letter, every time I've read it I can't believe how dumb it is.
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Oct 18, 2019 14:48
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Squalid posted:Actually the USA is not allied with IS. Little bit of trivia here, but in fact the US has spent the last five years waging a brutal war that has killed tens of thousand of IS soldiers and cost billions of dollars. THE MORE YOU KNOW!!!
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Oct 18, 2019 14:55
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Flayer posted:That was such a poo poo letter, every time I've read it I can't believe how dumb it is. https://mobile.twitter.com/gtconway3d/status/1185184801814396930
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Oct 18, 2019 16:14
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That's a pretty good and well deserved burn.
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Oct 18, 2019 16:22
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Cerebral Bore posted:I like how the thing that has happened in literally every civil war since the dawn of mankind is now some weird baseless claim that must be assumed false. Guess it must be weird to live in some kind of eternal now. look there's nothing wrong with being mistaken sometimes. However if you're wrong you need to learn to be able to accept it and move on. Getting indignant like this isn't going to change what we know. Bob le Moche posted:You should look up who some of those "Turkish proxies" are and where they come from I really don't know why I feel compelled to respond to this. While I am speaking in terms of observable reality, I can tell when you make a statement that suggests the USA is allied to IS, you don't mean it LITERALLY. You are instead talking about higher truths. As a materialist I've always had a hard time understanding this kind of perspective. When people like you talk about issues through the lens of what is spiritual, moral, and metaphysical it always comes across as strange and foreign. I don't think you believe you are lying, but I will always have a hard time distinguishing those who believe in this kind of emotional logic from those who do mean to lie.
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Oct 18, 2019 17:07
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Squalid posted:I really don't know why I feel compelled to respond to this. While I am speaking in terms of observable reality, I can tell when you make a statement that suggests the USA is allied to IS, you don't mean it LITERALLY. You are instead talking about higher truths. As a materialist I've always had a hard time understanding this kind of perspective. When people like you talk about issues through the lens of what is spiritual, moral, and metaphysical it always comes across as strange and foreign. I don't think you believe you are lying, but I will always have a hard time distinguishing those who believe in this kind of emotional logic from those who do mean to lie. I don't give a poo poo about "higher truths". I'm talking about the observable material reality of the US military getting out of the way of, and facilitating the actions of, ISIS and ex-ISIS fighters on their way to commit genocide in Northern Syria / Kurdistan. It's the US government itself (and other NATO members) who is calling these people their allies.
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Oct 18, 2019 17:23
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Big protests across Lebanon today (and in Beirut, yesterday evening as well). Hard to say how it will play out, although typically for Lebanon I would expect it to fizzle out by Monday, but you never know. Protests are nominally against the proposed WhatsApp tax of $6/month (holy poo poo that's a huge tax) although there's a lot underlying it, like corruption (and perception of corruption), the tenuous peg of the LBP to the USD, youth unemployment, etc. Today was a day off in most (all?) of the country for schools and many offices due to the start of the protests last night. Everything seems more or less good natured now, although I was watching MTV (Lebanon, not the American MTV) and the protests in Hawraa looked to be more serious. I heard some shops in Beirut got smashed up last night, but not sure exactly where -- whether it was the high-end shopping near Nejmeh Square / Parliament, or at other major intersections. Also it's better for one's mental health to not reply to Bob, FYI.
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Oct 18, 2019 17:32
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Bob le Moche posted:I don't give a poo poo about "higher truths". I'm talking about the observable material reality of the US military getting out of the way of, and facilitating the actions of, ISIS and ex-ISIS fighters on their way to commit genocide in Northern Syria / Kurdistan. It's the US government itself (and other NATO members) who is calling these people their allies. If you have a problem with those who will work with ex-IS I have bad news regarding where the SDF and Syrian Arab Army have been getting new recruits as they've occupied more territory there's also a thing where you are equating organizationally distinct salafi militant groups with IS. Obviously you know this is not logically true but I'm sure it FEELS real to you.
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Oct 18, 2019 17:59
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Squalid posted:If you have a problem with those who will work with ex-IS I have bad news regarding where the SDF and Syrian Arab Army have been getting new recruits as they've occupied more territory Bob le Moche posted:If this deal happens, watch as this thread drops any pretense that it ever gave a poo poo about the Kurds in the first place https://twitter.com/FoundationKevok/status/1185188998811181057
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Oct 18, 2019 18:01
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Bob le Moche posted:Looks like it didn't take too long for what I said to happen wow we've got a real Nostradamus on our hands here. I admit I can find it frustrating at times when you or other people come into a thread to post ecstatic truths or to practice rhetoric. I guess I just have a different purpose. I like talking about these issues so I can learn new things and share information. So when you make statements that make a false equivocation between IS, "ISIS Groups"(what does that mean?) and HTS I find it distracting and confusing. I feel like I can't engage with you when you make statements that make no logical sense based on a common sense understanding, and which you will simply redefine to mean something else if pressed. What is the point of such exercises? Are you just here to practice rhetoric? Do you even want people to respond or do you just want these posts to go out and disappear quietly into the void of the internet?
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Oct 18, 2019 18:55
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Squalid posted:I admit I can find it frustrating at times when you or other people come into a thread to post ecstatic truths or to practice rhetoric. I guess I just have a different purpose. I like talking about these issues so I can learn new things and share information. I've backed up the information I shared here with source references and research, wich is more than 99% of the shitposting in this thread, as in this post: Bob le Moche posted:The YPG was never allowed to have access to anti-tank and anti-air weapons the would need to defend against an invasion by Turkey. The US promised Turkey it would never happen. It was always an alliance of circumstance, and the plan was to let Turkey run over them when they stopped being useful to US interests. Never mind that now everyone is talking about Turkey's membership in NATO. When I tried bringing it up as something relevant it was just proof of my posting "ecstatic truths" or whatever else your problem with me is. Squalid posted:What is the point of such exercises? Are you just here to practice rhetoric? Do you even want people to respond or do you just want these posts to go out and disappear quietly into the void of the internet? Bob le Moche posted:I want the violence to stop. I want people to stop giving a blank check to their governments for doing whatever the gently caress they want all over the world and to start offering some resistance.
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Oct 18, 2019 19:18
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That's not why people are calling you a tankie, tankie.
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Oct 18, 2019 19:26
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if only the american citizenry had had the moral fortitude to stand up years ago and demand we let Turkey ethnically cleanse the Syrian Kurds, the violence in Rojava would be over by now thank god for Donald Trump's integrity, courage, and commitment to peace
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Oct 18, 2019 19:44
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GreyjoyBastard posted:if only the american citizenry had had the moral fortitude to stand up years ago and demand we let Turkey ethnically cleanse the Syrian Kurds, the violence in Rojava would be over by now Herstory Begins Now posted:That's not why people are calling you a tankie, tankie.
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Oct 18, 2019 19:48
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That post of yours you quoted was good Bob. You should keep making posts like that. I guess my problem that set me off is that you sounded like you weren’t really here to talk to people. Instead you were just repeating propaganda. That doesn’t make for a good conversation, if I wanted to hear that I’d better just break down and get a twitter account. And please don’t pull that talking truth to power bullshit. You’re far from the only person against US intervention in the thread. If you were against arming and training the SDF that might make you stand out but if it’s not a majority of posters here who are/were against a US intervention against Assad it’s at least close to 50/50. It’s off the top of my head there’s me, you, Frond, the American Alawite guy, that Anglo-Iranian who was also pro killing Sunni women and children, the list goes on. So stop posturing like your the lone voice of reason. But yeah it is kinda bullshit when people drag grudge matches in from other threads
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Oct 18, 2019 19:51
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The SDF/SDC keep getting called as "The Kurds", but more than half the SDF is Arab, and the whole point of what they were fighting for was to create a free society where ethnic, gender and religious divisions did not oppress the people.
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Oct 18, 2019 19:52
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Bob le Moche posted:What the hell are you even on? You think the US-led intervention was about preventing Turkey from invading Syria in any way shape or form?? What is this absolute bullshit. And I'm the one practicing "rhetoric" here??? leaving our leftover dudes sitting around in Rojava was in fact to present an obstacle to prevent Assad and Turkey from invading Rojava and squashing our allies, because it was cheap and easy to do you may have noticed that the instant we removed them, Assad and Turkey invaded Rojava, and your position is that we should have removed them long before this or ideally never assisted against ISIS at all, with the result that Assad and Turkey would invade as soon as they had their ducks in a row and Turkey would ethnically cleanse the place so congratulations, you finally got what you wanted  OctaMurk posted:The SDF/SDC keep getting called as "The Kurds", but more than half the SDF is Arab, and the whole point of what they were fighting for was to create a free society where ethnic, gender and religious divisions did not oppress the people. yeah it's difficult to come up with a perfectly accurate shorthand, which is why I'm leaning on 'Rojava'
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Oct 18, 2019 19:55
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I have heard St Nicholas is a Turkish thing so Santa is Turkish.
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Oct 18, 2019 20:21
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Rip Testes posted:I have heard St Nicholas is a Turkish thing so Santa is Turkish. Anatolian, anyway! 3rd-4th century, so a while before the Turks themselves showed up, but there's still a bunch of Anatolian blood in modern Turkey. Santa Claus apocryphally punched a dude over a theological dispute, or rather the theological dispute - the victim was a fellow named Arius, who claimed that Jesus was separate from and subordinate to God the Father, rather than a coequal part of the trinity 
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Oct 18, 2019 20:24
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Zaporozhian Cossacks to the Turkish Sultan! O sultan, Turkish devil and damned devil's kith and kin, secretary to Lucifer himself. What the devil kind of knight are thou, that canst not slay a hedgehog with your naked arse? The devil shits, and your army eats. Thou shalt not, thou son of a whore, make subjects of Christian sons; we have no fear of your army, by land and by sea we will battle with thee, gently caress thy mother. Thou Babylonian scullion, Macedonian wheelwright, brewer of Jerusalem, goat-fucker of Alexandria, swineherd of Greater and Lesser Egypt, pig of Armenia, Podolian thief, catamite of Tartary, hangman of Kamyanets, and fool of all the world and underworld, an idiot before God, grandson of the Serpent, and the crick in our dick. Pig's snout, mare's arse, slaughterhouse cur, unchristened brow, screw thine own mother! So the Zaporozhians declare, you lowlife. You won't even be herding pigs for the Christians. Now we'll conclude, for we don't know the date and don't own a calendar; the moon's in the sky, the year with the Lord, the day's the same over here as it is over there; for this kiss our arse! - Koshovyi otaman Ivan Sirko, with the whole Zaporozhian Host.
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Oct 18, 2019 21:46
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Apparently the Turks have been using White Phosphorus too.
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Oct 18, 2019 22:21
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Yes, yes indeed :  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7587357/Distressing-footage-emerges-children-chemical-burns-Syria.html
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Oct 18, 2019 22:25
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Squalid posted:look there's nothing wrong with being mistaken sometimes. However if you're wrong you need to learn to be able to accept it and move on. Getting indignant like this isn't going to change what we know. Cool, your opinion is noted, but on the other hand all of recorded history.
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Oct 18, 2019 22:31
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For what it's worth I'd guess the share of posters in this thread who support a US intervention to overthrow Assad at less than 2% at this point, the share who favored a military intervention to overthrow Assad at any point at maybe 35%, and the share who at some point supported limited strikes against Assad to defend the prohibition of chemical weapons use against civilians at around 50%. Personally I can only support the last option. And SA has gotten more left wing over time at the same time US politics have gotten more anti-interventionist. Criticizing Conservatives for supporting a reckless abandonment of Iran diplomacy and war against Iran would be dramatically more sensible but granted there aren't many of them to argue with on SA.
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Oct 18, 2019 23:57
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OctaMurk posted:The SDF/SDC keep getting called as "The Kurds", but more than half the SDF is Arab, and the whole point of what they were fighting for was to create a free society where ethnic, gender and religious divisions did not oppress the people. Blame nationalism. People are unable of conceiving of state politics functioning in any way outside of the nationality framework. For most of history and for many people today a collective Sunni identity was far more important than ethno-linguistic background. It's why Kurdish speaking groups massacred christians during WW1. The idea that the member of an ethnolingistic group might have greater loyalties and might belong to imagined communities that pit them against other members of the same group seems impossible. Someone a few weeks ago uploaded a picture of a Iraqi peshmerga to reddit saying "our brave Kurdish allies being slaughtered by the Turks," ignoring the fact that the KRG is literally trained by Turkey. Everyone basically has a hitlarian conception of nationality now, it guarantees that massive genocides will happen as climate collapse comes.
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Oct 19, 2019 05:53
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I think people refer to "The Kurds" as a no explanatuion way to relay who they are talking about. I Say Turks or Turkey instead of TFSA or SNA because there's so many loving acronyms in this war It's difficult to keep track of who is who and avoid miss-labeling groups. No one here uses the SNA or TFSA acronym for the most part. Here is a good Map of the Situation in Northern Syria so far The Blue highlighted areas are under nazi occupation.  However control of the M4 highway is fluid, Turkey is starting to setup more permanent outposts etc in and around the highway as it is a main supply route for most of Kurdish Syria.  This is the focal point this week, as we have yet to see the shelling cease in this encircled Kurdish town as per the agreement between Turkey the US and Russia, Neville Chamberlain 120hr peace isn't stopping the Turkish shelling. Also, Rest in peace to these Kurdish fighters, who died in the service of the freeworld, against Nazi occupation.  WAR CRIME GIGOLO fucked around with this message at 07:20 on Oct 19, 2019 |
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Oct 19, 2019 07:17
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I'm honestly curious how close the tfsa are to being turkish little green men.
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Oct 19, 2019 07:45
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Herstory Begins Now posted:I'm honestly curious how close the tfsa are to being turkish little green men. Eh thry are motivated by the turks promising land after their invasion Little green men usually referre to nondesignated forces, the TFSA by name are alignment designated.
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Oct 19, 2019 09:34
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Flayer posted:If you kick Turkey out of NATO what's the point of it? The point of NATO is to counter the influence of the USSR and resist an hypothetical invasion by the forces of the Warsaw Pact.
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Oct 19, 2019 09:41
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Herstory Begins Now posted:I'm honestly curious how close the tfsa are to being turkish little green men. Not very, the whole thing about the little green men was that they officially didn't exist, while Turkey proudly announces its alliance with Al Nusra for all to see.
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Oct 19, 2019 09:49
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"Polite green men" are regular soldier who cut off their flags and other identifying markers from their uniforms. They were 100% Russian Army soldiers, going on a mission given to them by the Kremlin, just without the things mandated by the Geneva Conventions to identify soldiers as being soldiers so as to be the most transparent attempt at plausible deniability ever in recorded history.Vasukhani posted:Blame nationalism. People are unable of conceiving of state politics functioning in any way outside of the nationality framework. For most of history and for many people today a collective Sunni identity was far more important than ethno-linguistic background. It's why Kurdish speaking groups massacred christians during WW1. The idea that the member of an ethnolingistic group might have greater loyalties and might belong to imagined communities that pit them against other members of the same group seems impossible. Someone a few weeks ago uploaded a picture of a Iraqi peshmerga to reddit saying "our brave Kurdish allies being slaughtered by the Turks," ignoring the fact that the KRG is literally trained by Turkey. Curse Hitler for inventing the Westphalian model of nation states and bringing an end to the Thirty Years' War! No massive genocides back then, that's for sure.  Or at least, it was the correct kind of genocide, the one where Kurdish speaking groups massacre Christians during WW1 for example, that's a good genocide because it's a sectarian genocide, not a Hitlerian nationalist genocide. Right?
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Oct 19, 2019 10:23
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