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Chuck Buried Treasure posted:I think the materialism of the Union is supposed to be a juxtaposition of the heavily religious Gurkhul. He doesn’t seem to do much with the idea since we don’t see anything from the Gurkish perspective, but the idea is there. We do, sometimes. Jubair was Gurkish, although his view of the God was definitely unorthodox. Shev was born in Gurkhul and, although not very religious, she remembered how inspired she felt when Khalul briefly visited the temple where she v prayed. The Dagoskan religion was said to be an offshoot of the Gurkish one, and Temple's POV have us some info about it.
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Sep 30, 2019 12:14
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Adua literally has a magic tower built by the son of God, so it's not like they don't believe in a higher power or pantheon. What the Union lacks is an organized bureaucracy around religion, presumably because Bayez didn't want one.
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Sep 30, 2019 14:12
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I like how his mother repeatedly bursts into Orso's room when he has company, usually of the naked female variety. It's such a great detail.
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Sep 30, 2019 15:54
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shes just trying to catch a peek of a tiddy because she can't openly whore around with random women
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Sep 30, 2019 23:32
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The vision of "a great door being opened but on the other side there was only an empty room" implies to me that Tolomei has already escaped the Maker's Tower and is likely the main spreader of chaos in Adua. Perhaps she was the redheaded Judge who was leading the Burner faction? With her abilities to shapeshift and bottomless hatred of Bayaz she certainly has motive and opportunity.
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Oct 1, 2019 06:46
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Suxpool posted:shes just trying to catch a peek of a tiddy because she can't openly whore around with random women Isn’t it a bit of an open secret though? Monza knew, and it’s likely a lot of other people know too, with Jezal just being not quick enough to realise. Can’t remember if it was implied or stated that Prince Orso knows too. And on a related matter, is Orso the only kid Jezal and Terez had? Didn’t Glokta coerce her to have 3 or 4 as backups and to cement political alliances?
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Oct 1, 2019 19:54
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Hemp Knight posted:And on a related matter, is Orso the only kid Jezal and Terez had? Didn’t Glokta coerce her to have 3 or 4 as backups and to cement political alliances? The queen mentions two of Orso’s sisters, I think, when she’s trying to get him to agree to marry someone
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Oct 1, 2019 20:41
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Hemp Knight posted:Isn’t it a bit of an open secret though? Monza knew, and it’s likely a lot of other people know too, with Jezal just being not quick enough to realise. Can’t remember if it was implied or stated that Prince Orso knows too. Orso knows. Later on he says to Rikke he could tell Terez approved of her physique, which he called a high compliment.
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Oct 2, 2019 01:20
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ZekeNY posted:The queen mentions two of Orso’s sisters, I think, when she’s trying to get him to agree to marry someone Yes. A Cathil, in Starikland, and a Carlot, who married Sipani's chancellor. Neurosis posted:Orso knows. Later on he says to Rikke he could tell Terez approved of her physique, which he called a high compliment. "When it comes to naked women, she's quite the connoisseur," according to Orso.
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Oct 2, 2019 17:48
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PopetasticPerson posted:My biggest question is why Shivers left Calder for the Dogman. There has to be a story there but nobody ever even looked twice. It’s not like the North doesn’t have a religion per se, it is just that the religious aspect of the North does not center around a god or gods. Take Logen as an example, remember that Bayaz’s interest in Logan initially was that he talked to spirits. So there is a bit a animism there, but there are also seems to be a premium on the sort of stoic attitudes, which in many contexts is a type of religion in and of itself. Edit Northern religion: So I am going back and re-reading the First Law books, and I remembered where I had heard “favorite of the moon” before. That crazy Man of the Hills guy was always describing Logen as “a favorite of the moon” and talking about how he talks to the moon. So there is also worship of what I assume is a moon god or goddess, and it sort of seems associated with the “old ways” of the North. ZombieLenin fucked around with this message at 18:07 on Oct 9, 2019 |
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Oct 8, 2019 21:28
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I haven’t read the books in a while. Do they ever say why the eaters actually eat people? Does it give them power or something?
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Oct 11, 2019 00:44
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RCarr posted:I haven’t read the books in a while. Do they ever say why the eaters actually eat people? Does it give them power or something? Yes, it gives them “gifts,” which are different for each eater. Eaters are like First Law Anne Rice vampires that eat people instead of drinking blood.
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Oct 11, 2019 02:22
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Also not everyone can be an Eater. I recall some speculation the same attribute that lets one become an Eater could also let them become a magus. By the time of the books being an Eater gives a lot more power, of course. I wonder whether Bayaz and co are staring down the barrel of having to Eat or becoming mortal as magic fades. If he is I imagine he might gently caress around with the Seed.
Neurosis fucked around with this message at 06:13 on Oct 11, 2019 |
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Oct 11, 2019 06:11
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Neurosis posted:Also not everyone can be an Eater. I recall some speculation the same attribute that lets one become an Eater could also let them become a magus. By the time of the books being an Eater gives a lot more power, of course. I wonder whether Bayaz and co are staring down the barrel of having to Eat or becoming mortal as magic fades. If he is I imagine he might gently caress around with the Seed. I was sort of wondering this too, especially in the contexts of A Little Hatred as I assume that the whole magic leaking away has accelerated with the whole industrial revolution thing. I did not think though that being an eater prevented one from also being a magus, particularly given that Khalul and Bayaz have had apprentices that were eaters.
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Oct 11, 2019 19:50
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ZombieLenin posted:I was sort of wondering this too, especially in the contexts of A Little Hatred as I assume that the whole magic leaking away has accelerated with the whole industrial revolution thing. They might not be mutually exclusive, but if it is the same talent then it seems like a lot of Eaters don't bother with the magic thing - maybe because it's exceptionally hard to learn relative to the gain of mastering their Eater abilities.
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Oct 12, 2019 03:42
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ZombieLenin posted:I was sort of wondering this too, especially in the contexts of A Little Hatred as I assume that the whole magic leaking away has accelerated with the whole industrial revolution thing. Khalul himself is an Eater. He broke the Second Law because he believed that Bayaz killed Juvens and it was the only way he could get the power to stand up to Bayaz and the rest of the Magi.
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Oct 12, 2019 04:39
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Regarding the Union's lack of military effectiveness vs what are basically quasi-vikings, that is one of the thing that always rankled ever so slightly about the series despite my greatly enjoying it. The Union gets to demonstrate all of the awful things that suck about totalitarian and industrialising nations with powerful aristocracy, but it never seems to be allowed to 'enjoy' any of the benefits that help such a nation spread the awful loving over to it's neighbors? It just gets to be awful and suck, because Ambercrombie's stories have to be about how things suck for everyone. I mean in the previous trilogy and The Heroes the Union was fielding armies of professional, full time soldiers in widespread plate armour, starting to be backed up by cannons. Even with aristocratic officers that kind of army should shatter quasi feudal levies with 10th century gear like glass. The occasional loss due to incompetent commanders sure, but it really needing a combination of unusually competent enemies and especially bad generals to let that happen.
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Oct 12, 2019 12:26
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Patrat posted:Regarding the Union's lack of military effectiveness vs what are basically quasi-vikings, that is one of the thing that always rankled ever so slightly about the series despite my greatly enjoying it. In a A Little Hatred it’s pretty easy to understand because the situation amongst the workers in the Union is such that the army can not be spared to help Angland. What doesn’t make sense is that the Union is essentially a state in the midst of the industrial revolution and still is completely reliant on medieval governance such that even the army still needs levies from the nobles in a time of crisis. And, in all honesty, given Bayaz wealth and the position of his bank, it seems like a representative democracy would be easier for him to control. Neurosis posted:They might not be mutually exclusive, but if it is the same talent then it seems like a lot of Eaters don't bother with the magic thing - maybe because it's exceptionally hard to learn relative to the gain of mastering their Eater abilities. Right; however, the 100 words and the vast majority of eaters were created to fight Bayaz, and my impression was their training never went beyond the martial. You have to distinguish these guys from Khalul, Mamun, and Sulfur who aren’t just eaters, but also—at least this is my impression—full blown Magi.
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Oct 12, 2019 23:51
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Poor Gunner Broad. Dude just wants to stop being an murderous maniac, but can't stop being an murderous maniac. The glasses coming off is a nice touch.
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Oct 15, 2019 01:22
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tokenbrownguy posted:Poor Gunner Broad. Dude just wants to stop being an murderous maniac, but can't stop being an murderous maniac. The glasses coming off is a nice touch. https://twitter.com/LordGrimdark/status/1181930633569939456
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Oct 15, 2019 01:40
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I imagined his appearance as this character exactly minus a few years
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Oct 15, 2019 07:08
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Man, I spent the whole book waiting for Bayaz to make an appearance, and then when it happened it caught me completely off guard - I had a genuine moment of "wait, what?" and re-read the previous paragraph because I'd totally mistaken him for some random old sailor dude chatting with Rikke. I half suspect this was intentional on Abercrombie's part, since it fits Bayaz's whole thing of seeming like an ordinary, nondescript guy you could pass on the street and would never guess is the ancient wizard of legend until he wants you to know. Or maybe I'm just an idiot.
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Oct 15, 2019 11:41
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He made a brief appearance before that, though it could have been sulphur.
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Oct 15, 2019 16:06
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Hemp Knight posted:Isn’t it a bit of an open secret though? Monza knew, and it’s likely a lot of other people know too, with Jezal just being not quick enough to realise. Can’t remember if it was implied or stated that Prince Orso knows too. Orso cannot be the only child. In fact, in his brief appearance in Best Served Cold, Jazal comments that his wife is pregnant with their third child. Edit. Otis’s sisters are also mentioned in A Little Hatred Asgerd posted:Man, I spent the whole book waiting for Bayaz to make an appearance So I am going back and re-reading all the First Law universe novels, and the little speech Bayaz gives to Rikke is almost word for word the same speech he gave to Logen when Bayaz and Logen first arrived in Adua. ZombieLenin fucked around with this message at 21:07 on Oct 15, 2019 |
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Oct 15, 2019 16:16
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So, re-reading all of the books I am starting to wonder if there is more to Cosca than drunk soldier of fortune. I mean the man is an old alcoholic that literally never dies, including after being completely run through by a sword. In fact, it takes him ‘two weeks’ to recover. Honestly I feel like the Baron Munchausen is the inspiration for the character. ZombieLenin fucked around with this message at 14:03 on Oct 16, 2019 |
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Oct 16, 2019 14:00
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ZombieLenin posted:So, re-reading all of the books I am starting to wonder if there is more to Cosca than drunk soldier of fortune. I mean the man is an old alcoholic that literally never dies, including after being completely run through by a sword. In fact, it takes him ‘two weeks’ to recover. I think it is implied that he pretended his wound to be much more serious than it was. There is even a moment Monza tries to check his wound and he stops her, saying that he's done and there is no point in saving him. He's also a narcissist or a psychopath. His POV clearly shows that he doesn't feel fear, in fact danger excites him and makes him perform to the best of his ability. When everything goes his way, he gets bored and self-destructive, alienating pretty much everyone around him. At some point he even states to Friendly that they both lack some part that makes people human.
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Oct 16, 2019 14:39
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Gantolandon posted:I think it is implied that he pretended his wound to be much more serious than it was. There is even a moment Monza tries to check his wound and he stops her, saying that he's done and there is no point in saving him. Right, but he is far more complicated than that because at the end of the day he always ends up doing heroic things. Not only that, despite his noted lack of loyalty, at the end of the day he ends up acting loyal. But you’re right, he does stop Monza from checking the wound; however, he is very clearly described as run through, not apparently run through. I don’t know how that injury could possibly be minor—and he is an insanely lucky person to still be alive. Seriously, the more I think about it the more I see parallels with the Baron Munchausen. If you aren’t familiar he is a mythical self aggrandizing German nobleman. He is also a drunk womanizing mercenary known for his avarice, but at the end of the day turns out to be a decent person, and depending on the source, has some supernatural ability to live much longer than a normal person. ZombieLenin fucked around with this message at 15:44 on Oct 16, 2019 |
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Oct 16, 2019 15:04
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ZombieLenin posted:Right, but he is far more complicated than that because at the end of the day he always ends up doing heroic things. Not only that, despite his noted lack of loyalty, at the end of the day he ends up acting loyal. Cosca is not a decent person, the only one that was a decent person was shivers and that gets tortured out of him. It really comes out in red country how much of a despicable drunk he is. He's not so much doing heroic things as he is doing what will make him the most money. His only soft spot was for Monza seeing how he raised her to be who she was
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Oct 17, 2019 22:32
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Terror Sweat posted:Cosca is not a decent person, the only one that was a decent person was shivers and that gets tortured out of him. It really comes out in red country how much of a despicable drunk he is. He's not so much doing heroic things as he is doing what will make him the most money. His only soft spot was for Monza seeing how he raised her to be who she was Shivers has very deep scars (figuratively and literally) but there are indications he still has some decency. Letting Logan go and actually being happy at being able to push back against the dumb ouroboros of murder. Leaving Calder to serve the Dogman because Dogman's decency inspired him. Agreed on Cosca though. He had elements of good here and there, but by Red Country he's been reduced to a miserable greedy old drunk, with little in his favour.
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Oct 18, 2019 13:06
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Yeah all it took was red country to make me hope cosca would die already.
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Oct 18, 2019 13:14
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What I liked about Cosca's arc is that he doesn't have one. His shift from a comic relief character in the original trilogy/BSC to that of a villain in Red Country is almost entirely due to the change in perspective. His behavior and mannerisms don't really change throughout any of Abercrombie's books, but Red Country is the first case where we see his actions from the perspective of those he victimizes, rather than the bigwigs who pay him or the mercenaries who fight alongside him.
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Oct 18, 2019 14:23
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I was kind of on the fence about getting A Little Hatred, overall I liked the First Law trilogy but parts of it rubbed me the wrong way. Then I read the top review on Amazon and pretty much had to get it, gently caress that guy. Not terribly far into it and going to avoid reading anything in this thread for now but I like it so far. So thank you "bigdawg293" for being real mad about women in fantasy books.
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Oct 18, 2019 16:42
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Terror Sweat posted:Cosca is not a decent person, the only one that was a decent person was shivers and that gets tortured out of him. It really comes out in red country how much of a despicable drunk he is. He's not so much doing heroic things as he is doing what will make him the most money. His only soft spot was for Monza seeing how he raised her to be who she was I mean, he really is because at the end of the day, despite everything he finds himself doing heroic things, including looking after the men in the Thousand Swords, despite his protests to the contrary. I think it’s pretty clear that, despite what he says about himself, he actually loves certain people and will do anything to protect them... in his own way. For example not taking Gurkish money to switch sides immediately, but taking it to not fight. Or taking Glockta’s money and actually defending Dagostka instead of selling out to the Gurkish. Like I said he ends up often doing both kind and heroic things, even if it does not seem like those are his real motives... and if there is anything I get from these books, it’s motive is a matter of perspective and it’s the quality of the actions a person takes that makes them ‘good’ or ‘bad.’ I am honestly confused how you would get from Cosca that he is a clearly cut terrible person. So far the only major character this seems to apply to is Bayaz.
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Oct 18, 2019 18:41
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YodaTFK posted:I was kind of on the fence about getting A Little Hatred, overall I liked the First Law trilogy but parts of it rubbed me the wrong way. Then I read the top review on Amazon and pretty much had to get it, gently caress that guy. Not terribly far into it and going to avoid reading anything in this thread for now but I like it so far. So thank you "bigdawg293" for being real mad about women in fantasy books. I couldn't help myself and just had to look it up. quote:Disappointing, to say the least. I was worried about this one ever since Sharp Ends, which was strongly tilting towards the feminist agenda side of things. The only reason I bought that book was for the Logan story which was also very disappointing as it showed Logan act in ways he never has before. I couldn't imagine getting triggered by reading fiction and I've read multiple Lovecraft stories.
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Oct 18, 2019 20:40
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ZombieLenin posted:I am honestly confused how you would get from Cosca that he is a clearly cut terrible person. Best Served Cold posted:The Thousand Swords fought for Ospria against Muris. They fought for Muris against Sipani. They fought for Sipani against Muris, then for Ospria again. Between contracts, they sacked Oprile on a whim. A month later, judging they had perhaps not been thorough enough, they sacked it again, and left it in smouldering ruins. They fought for everyone against no one, and no one against everyone, and all the while they hardly did any fighting at all. But robbery and plunder, arson and pillage, rape and extortion, yes.
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Oct 18, 2019 21:49
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Vichan posted:I couldn't help myself and just had to look it up. Lmao what a dumbass. Logen clearly found shys mom and settled down with her and calmed the gently caress down. Although a story about shys mom calming him down could be cool. I know this story is about the union and the north, but come on there's gotta be *some* chapters about the far country and the south in the next boom. We keep getting told about them and there's too many dangling threads.
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Oct 18, 2019 22:18
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Also the Old Empire, something's going on out there with the nature-themed Magus.
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Oct 18, 2019 22:46
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Alikchi posted:Also the Old Empire, something's going on out there with the nature-themed Magus. The Old Empire will definitely be a major player going forward.
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Oct 19, 2019 00:18
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ZombieLenin posted:I mean, he really is because at the end of the day, despite everything he finds himself doing heroic things, including looking after the men in the Thousand Swords, despite his protests to the contrary. Cosca runs a group of amoral war criminals and rapists and will betray everyone for more money and safety
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Oct 19, 2019 00:48
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Terror Sweat posted:Cosca runs a group of amoral war criminals and rapists and will betray everyone for more money and safety Any character who isn't a literal demon dedicated to doing nothing but evil for the sake of doing evil 24/7 will have people writing paragraphs in their defense, in my experience
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Oct 19, 2019 10:37
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